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British Pilot working for US airlines

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British Pilot working for US airlines

Old 23rd Apr 2016, 01:59
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Also, United Airlines and Expressjet just signed a deal that will have a hiring pathway for Expressjet Embraer pilots.
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Old 23rd Apr 2016, 12:47
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Since the subject of flow-up has been mentioned, is it possible for someone who "belongs" to the regional in question to apply independently to the parent airline while still in the pipeline...out of turn so to speak ?

I seem to remember talking to someone knowledgeable of the Endeavor-to-Delta program and was told you couldn't do that but haven't heard anything about the other deals.

It's all a bit academic, I suppose.
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Old 23rd Apr 2016, 13:55
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independently to the parent airline while still in the pipeline...out of turn so to speak ?
We call that applying outside the flow or off the street. Some programs allow you to apply off the street for the same airline and some don't.
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Old 24th Apr 2016, 00:59
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United's CPP program with CommutAir allows you to also apply the traditional way. I would Imagine the CPP they have with Express Jet functions the same.
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Old 24th Apr 2016, 15:13
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flyhayes,

"I would Imagine the CPP they have with Express Jet functions the same. "

Well, it's hard to tell under what circumstances people left XJT for UAL but some of 'em sure have made the jump:

2014: 75
2015: 148

Haven't seen any data for this year yet.
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Old 24th Apr 2016, 18:27
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As far as I know, nobody has left either regional as part of the CPP program yet.
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Old 24th Apr 2016, 18:35
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Old 24th Apr 2016, 22:58
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Zonda,


That's a nice breakdown of the UAL info. Is it available on the ALPA National website ?

I know that UAL has hired almost twice as many XJT pilots as DL in 2014 and 2015 combined. It was twice as many (+) in 2015: 148 vs 63. Kinda makes a guy think, "...hmmmm...". :-(
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Old 25th Apr 2016, 21:38
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Thanks for all the replies everyone. I think I'm starting to understand the structure of the regional and major airlines and how the pipelines work. It is very different to Europe. Are the American Eagle airlines based on seniority whilst the UAL CPP based on experience, i.e you apply for a position with your CV and an interview etc but competing only with those in you airline rather than everyone else?

Am I right in thinking that if I wanted to work for a particular major airline, I would have the best chance of getting there by first landing a job with one of their regional partners. I assume I could still get a job with one of the other majors if I wanted? For example, I get a job with Piedmont and join the queue to move up to AA. I then decide that I would rather work for United, and so apply to them directly. Will I be passed over in favour of pilots from their own regionals?

AM
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Old 26th Apr 2016, 00:15
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ALPA needs new calculator

Civilian and military add up to 115%! neat
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Old 26th Apr 2016, 01:14
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Civilian and military add up to 115%! neat
There are a few military guys who went to regionals to get current or get the 121 box ticked while they waited for an interview at the majors. I know several guys who did this. There are also pilots in the guard and reserve that were hired straight into the guard and reserve, and once they hit 750hours they went to a regional to help build time, while concurrently flying in the guard and reserve.
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Old 26th Apr 2016, 04:11
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. Are the American Eagle airlines based on seniority whilst the UAL CPP based on experience, i.e you apply for a position with your CV and an interview etc but competing only with those in you airline rather than everyone else?

It is all seniority based. If you are at Envoy, you can also apply to American off the street and hope to get hired before you flow. I believe PSA's contract says you cannot apply to American off the street in an attempt to get hired before you flow. Some PSA guys were saying that if you get hired at PSA today, the one major that you will never work for is American, but I don't know how true that is.


I know that Envoy has shrunk their fleet considerably recently, so they are fat on pilots. Long reserve right now and longer upgrade, and line holders have lower credit trips in general. Having a flow is a great way to reduce the pilot numbers to the correct number required for their fleet. A lot of pilots speculate that American will meter the flow if it will cause staffing issues for their regional feed.


Expressjet has the preferential interview program with United, only for United dedicated pilots (ERJ pilots). Keep in mind that Expressjet operates only old 50 seat airplanes for United. United has pubicly stated that they want to reduce 50 seat feed by over 50%. What great combination of hiring pilots from the 50 seat fleet as the fleet shrinks over time...


Am I right in thinking that if I wanted to work for a particular major airline, I would have the best chance of getting there by first landing a job with one of their regional partners. I assume I could still get a job with one of the other majors if I wanted? For example, I get a job with Piedmont and join the queue to move up to AA. I then decide that I would rather work for United, and so apply to them directly. Will I be passed over in favour of pilots from their own regionals?

Flawed thinking here...
Many regionals operate for more than one major:


Horizon Airlines - owned by Alaska Airlines, operates for Alaska
Air Wisconsin - Operates for American as American Eagle
CommutAir - Partially owned by United, operates for United Express


Trans States Airlines - Owned by Trans States Holdings, operates United and American
GoJet - Owned by Trans States Holdings - operates Delta and United
Compass - owned by Trans States Holdings - Operates Delta and American


Endeavor - Owned by Delta, operates for Delta


Envoy - Owned by American, operates American Eagle
Piedmont - Owned by American, operates American Eagle
PSA - Owned by American, Operates American Eagle


Expressjet - Owned by Skywest, operates Delta, American, and United
Skywest Airlines -Owned by Skywest Inc, operates United, Delta, American, Alaska


Mesa - Owned by Mesa, operates for American and United


Republic Airlines - Owned by Republic, operates for American and Delta
Shuttle America - Owned by Republic, operates for United and Delta


Silver - Operates for United


In general, the majors don't give preferential hiring to one regional or another unless they have explicitly stated it, for example CommutAir and United, Expressjet and United, Endeavor and Delta, and the American owned regionals. There is some speculation that some of these majors would prefer to hire from regionals that support their competition. For example, if PSA, who operates for American, cannot staff their airplanes, and United decides to hire a bunch of PSA pilots, now American is going to have to cancel some PSA operated American Eagle flights... This is just speculation. Southwest does not have any regional affiliates, and they hire quite a few regional pilots. Some people are cautious about going to a wholly owned regional after Comair was shutdown by Delta. Everything can change overnight with the regionals. If you look at any regional and look at their history, (fleet, mainline flying partners, growth, shrinkage, pilot bases), you will see some pretty crazy adaptation to the market.
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 11:13
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I am due to start flight training at Oxford Aviation Academy in September
If all goes to plan I will get my first job and type rating with a european airline (probably a low cost) and build up my hours
Good for the OP for doing some homework, however I find it particularly interesting that someone who has yet to start training is discussing using a European airline as a springboard into the US market and particularly the regionals - they don't pay much by comparison to even the LC's in most of the EU but that's another story...

Interesting times following many years of so few jobs, that a candidate would contemplate leaving a much coveted jet job in Europe before they've started training - why not cut out all the additional time, cost and effort spent in the pursuit of an EASA CPL/IR and MCC, emigrate to the US and complete an FAA Private/Commercial/Instrument and CFI, build your 1500hrs instructing then apply to the regionals seeing as you still have to go via the regionals to get to the majors?
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 11:44
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Rverserbucket,

Under the circumstances, I'm surprised that eligible foreign nationals haven't been more actively, overtly recruited. The only example I've seen is Republic Airlines' effort to get some Brazilians in here. The CEO was just barking up the wrong tree. There must be some other trees. :-)
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 12:07
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True, but as you point out, the key is eligibility and those Brazilians were not. With a US citizen for a wife, am111 is in principal, eligible for Permanent Residency so will meet that requirement. A colleague of mine with around 10K on 737's/320's in the UK applied for several jobs with regionals in the US a few years ago on the basis that he wanted a ticket to live and work in the States. He told me he didn't get a single response from any of them. Coincidentally, I met a skipper from the US flying the 'bus for BA yesterday - I guess it works both ways.
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 12:44
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Reverserbucket,

I suppose it's hard to know how many foreign nationals would qualify under the "married to" or dual citizenship banner to grease the skids into the US regionals. But I suspect those who do just take matters into their hands individually. You'd expect some enterprising FTO to put together a program for them (those with existing non-FAA tickets).

I keep hearing that many regionals are struggling to fill seats but it's mostly anecdotal from here in the Peanut Gallery except for the one where I have a little bit of inside perspective…and it's not the best of the lot (nor the worst). It's puzzling that these airlines would sit there and let things go to pot without exhausting every potential source. Have they ?

There are frequently ways around the ham fisted interference of the kakistocracy.

Maybe it's just not all THAT dire ?

And then, there's that Aussie thing…untapped resource ? Maybe someone should've told Republic. :-))

Last edited by bafanguy; 27th Apr 2016 at 13:45.
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 17:52
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Originally Posted by Reverserbucket
why not cut out all the additional time, cost and effort spent in the pursuit of an EASA CPL/IR and MCC, emigrate to the US and complete an FAA Private/Commercial/Instrument and CFI, build your 1500hrs instructing then apply to the regionals
This is something I looked into but figured that I would rather do my first 1500 hours in the RHS of an airliner. The question about moving from Europe to the USA was less about financial career progression and more about where the wife and I would rather settle, sunny California or rainy old England.

I wrongly assumed I could go straight in to the majors with 1500 hours of european airline experience, hence why I started this thread. Who knows what will happen in the next 4 years. We may decide to stay in Europe a little longer until I can get a job at one of the majors. Then again, we may get sick of the rain sooner than that so it will be good to know my options.

AM
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Old 28th Apr 2016, 15:52
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chitolin - ALPA needs new calculator Civilian and military add up to 115%! neat


*************************


Only civilian - 78%
Military - 37%
Civ/Mil - 15%?


Or put another way, 40% of the military pilots have civilian experience and 60% have only military experience.
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Old 28th Apr 2016, 20:30
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American Airlines Hiring Department


You can see that the Flow Throughs were very senior at their company.
You can see that the average for flow throughs and Street hires combined is 5000hrs, and the majority of those off the Street hires are the military guys who are bringing the average down.
Right now, Envoy flow throughs have 12 years at Envoy. Recruiters are saying 2 years to upgrade, 6 to flow. At the moment, guys are getting off reserve at 2 years and upgrading at 6 years, flowing at 12, but the recruiters' numbers are based on current flow numbers for someone hired tomorrow... we will see if that becomes true or not.

Last edited by zondaracer; 28th Apr 2016 at 21:52.
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Old 29th Apr 2016, 11:41
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Zonda,

The graphic you posted shows, IIUC, AA as having 16,000+ apps on file. That's a pretty significant number considering DL only claims to have 5,000 in their undefined "hiring pool". It appears the majority of people being taken on at AA are flows. Comparatively little street hiring ?

I got this very recently from my buddy who's a TWA staple victim who stays in close touch with the situation at AA:

"The number of current on furlough returnees at AA is about 863 and includes all the junior natives (original AA who are still on furlough). ...most of the folks still on furlough are in their late 40's or early 50's. Some a bit older/younger. AA hasn't even thought about the impending shortage because they think they're soooo cool, there will be thousands lined up to apply to the 'wonderful' AA."

It's hard to see AA's mindset in the pilot replacement game but thinking they've got 16+K people to pick from to fill their ~8K pending vacancies might be just a little bit off the mark ?

Without specific definitions of terms, I suppose it's hard to know for sure what they're saying.
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