PPRuNe Forums


North America Still the busiest region for commercial aviation.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th Aug 2016, 15:47   #81 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mare Nostrum
Age: 34
Posts: 1,278
I can't make this stuff up.

zondaracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Aug 2016, 17:24   #82 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Age: 53
Posts: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by zondaracer View Post
I can't make this stuff up.
Priceless!! Still no mention of offering a decent salary though. It's not a shortage until they start increasing pay.
A Squared is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Aug 2016, 17:48   #83 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mare Nostrum
Age: 34
Posts: 1,278
Republic does have a $12500 hiring bonus now and highest pay for the regionals. Management held out for 8 years but they had to cave in eventually.
zondaracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Aug 2016, 18:10   #84 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Age: 53
Posts: 801
True that, but my take on hiring bonuses is that it's kinda like dangling shiny things. Republic may have a better pay scale, but a lot of companies are using "hiring bonuses" to divert attention away from the poor pay scale. A hiring bonus is fairly meaningless in year 2 of your employment.
A Squared is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Aug 2016, 18:34   #85 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mare Nostrum
Age: 34
Posts: 1,278
Yeah I completely agree. The AA wholy owned are totally guilty of keeping pay low but dangling a flow and a bonus to get new hires.
zondaracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Aug 2016, 21:29   #86 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wor Yerm
Age: 61
Posts: 3,041
This is like offering beads and shiny things to aboriginals in times past. How many takers?

PM
Piltdown Man is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Aug 2016, 21:54   #87 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,102
"...dangling a flow..."

Zonda (and Piltdown),

It's hard to count on how effectively flows will work...a bit of a roll of the dice, I suppose. They can be a long haul and lots can go wrong with that "promise" [if that's what it is] along the way but a person is getting some experience that helps on the ladder climb.

Whatever happened to that Endeavor-to-Delta program ? I have a vague recollection of it causing some bad feelings with the Endeavor pilots already on the list pre-Endeavor-to-Delta when it was introduced.
bafanguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th Aug 2016, 23:53   #88 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mare Nostrum
Age: 34
Posts: 1,278
An Endeavor guy would speak better to the program, but it was only a guaranteed interview, not a guaranteed job, and you still had to meet the hiring requirements for Delta to qualify for the interview, so not a true flow, but overall not a bad program from what I know.

I think the initial pain came from the fact that the initial EtD program was for new hires. The SSP program was implemented and extended to all pilots on property.
zondaracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Aug 2016, 00:03   #89 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Age: 53
Posts: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by zondaracer View Post
An Endeavor guy would speak better to the program, but it was only a guaranteed interview, not a guaranteed job, and you still had to meet the hiring requirements for Delta to qualify for the interview, so not a true flow, but overall not a bad program from what I know.

I think the initial pain came from the fact that the initial EtD program was for new hires. The SSP program was implemented and extended to all pilots on property.

So is anyone struck by the irony of offering the opportunity to apply for a different job as an incentive to accept the job you're offering???

"Hey, if you come to work for us, we might give you the opportunity to get a good job, later"
A Squared is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Aug 2016, 09:31   #90 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,102
"...and you still had to meet the hiring requirements for Delta to qualify for the interview, so not a true flow..."

Zonda,

I used to have the details of the E-to-D from the website but changed computers recently. I didn't bother saving a lot of stuff but what I remember is the Endeavor interview was the only one involved. DL personnel were part of the Endeavor interview process and had a major say in hiring the applicant. After meeting some criteria like a certain amount of capt time at Endeavor and slots open at DL, you just flowed up to mainline. That's what caused the big stink. And, you couldn't apply to DL outside the E-to-D pipeline if you were in that pipeline.

I recall a very small number of applicants were hired via that plan and I lost track of the existence of the plan itself. And...my recollection is always subject to revision. ;-)
bafanguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Aug 2016, 14:31   #91 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,102
Here's how it started. Where it stands today...how many were hired...what became of them ? I don't know. For a low-time guy who was going to slog it out in regional hell for years anyway, this may have been a great deal. I'm pretty sure it caused some hard feeling in the ranks.


"As a result,effective June15, the Endeavor-to-Delta Pilot Hiring Program & Commitment (EtD Commitment) program will be used for all pilot candidate interviews at Endeavor.
Pilots offered employment at Endeavor under the EtD Commitment after June 15, 2014, will, upon becoming and remaining eligible per the terms described in this document, be offered employment as Delta pilots."


http://www.endeavorair.com/documents...view_61314.pdf
bafanguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Aug 2016, 12:25   #92 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 105
Time to increase salaries, and think on sponsoring foreigners? (I did all my training in US and have FAA licenses) but it sucks when you can't stay in the US working after all..
spaflyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Aug 2016, 14:14   #93 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Global
Posts: 151
spaflyer - few of my friends went down to the states (from Canada) to do just that and none of them currently have a job in North America as no airline/school will sponsor you further than for your training, nor will you be in the US long enough for a green card. 1 guy came back to Canada to convert (spent another 15k+), another went to an Asian airline and paid 90k+ for his type and line training on top of the 65k usd for training...very dumb.......not worth it if you ask me.

It baffles me the US won't even allow Canadian's to seek regional airline jobs as TC and FAA are so similar in terms of pilot requirements.

Advice to any foreign pilot...do the training in your country. The US has enough potential pilots, just need a more secure and attractive package which will come in due time.
striker26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Aug 2016, 18:32   #94 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mare Nostrum
Age: 34
Posts: 1,278
Spaflyer - Salaries are slowly increasing and pilots are returning to the profession. I am sure the airlines would love to sponsor foreigners, as this would keep wages low, but as it stands, the US Government has determined that there is not a true pilot shortage.

striker26 - Your friend spent 15k to convert an FAA certificate to a TC license? Did they not know that Canada and the US have an agreement and will automatically convert licenses with just a knowledge test and medical exam?
zondaracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Aug 2016, 18:59   #95 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Age: 53
Posts: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by zondaracer View Post

striker26 - Your friend spent 15k to convert an FAA certificate to a TC license? Did they not know that Canada and the US have an agreement and will automatically convert licenses with just a knowledge test and medical exam?
Yeah, I was scratcing my head about that one too. I converted my certificate to a Papua New Guinea ATPL for a far smaller fee and a written test. I haven't converted to a Canadian certificate myself, but I know pilots who have, and it I don't recall anyone claiming it was a significant expense.
A Squared is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Aug 2016, 23:01   #96 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Age: 53
Posts: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by striker26 View Post
It baffles me the US won't even allow Canadian's to seek regional airline jobs as TC and FAA are so similar in terms of pilot requirements.
You know of a lot of US pilots flying for Canadian Airlines? I don't mean guys who married a Canadian woman and immigrated, I mean US residents who applied to a Canadian airline and got a job and a work permit and are working as expats. I don’t know any.

I think that it works both ways. Whether that is right or wrong is another question.
A Squared is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Aug 2016, 04:26   #97 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC
Age: 34
Posts: 27
The 1500 hour rule is killing aviation programs in US universities that have great reputations like UND and ERAU. How many of the regional accidents in the last two decades have been caused by their graduates vs. some guy who went to a Florida "get your ATP quick program" or local FBO a program? Zero.

Colgan put a non-screened, washout loser as a CA in charge of a DH4 flight to Buffalo. If he had failed the number of check-rides in a university environment, he would've been told to get an English degree. He ran his plane into a bunch of houses.

Guys and ladies like us put in the legitimate work to get a bachelors degree from a good aviation program. We were hired with hours like 322, 283, and 185. And we were given an FO position on an SF3/AR8/ERJ/CRJ. British Airways puts their recruits, without a university degree, on an A320 series aircraft.

The regionals will have to hire from Europe and Canada. It's not a bad gig. Regionals are suffering and boosting pay. You're looking at a 3-5 year gig before getting promoted to a major FO. The baby-boomers are retiring at a pace that far exceeds American supply.
Sky Slug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Aug 2016, 09:51   #98 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,102
"The regionals will have to hire from Europe and Canada."

Slug,

I'd expect that if things here were as bad as all the hand wringing and gnashing of teeth by experts would seem to suggest, the regionals (and TP freight feeders who advertise constantly) would've made more of an effort to get the ruling junta to allow expats here; there appears to be at least some interest from them in coming. So far, I don't see any of that happening and it'd be a hard secret to keep (and why would they anyway ?). They've had access to Aussies for long enough that any formal pursuit of that supply would've happened by now if they intended to use it; nothing...zero...nada in a formal industry/company-initiated effort that I've heard of.

Barring any events yet to emerge, the only conclusion I can draw from the empirical evidence is there are enough pilots to keep the seats filled and wheels turning despite the meddling of the kakistocracy.
bafanguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Aug 2016, 23:12   #99 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Escapee from Ultima Thule
Posts: 4,175
Show me the $$$ (and the quality of life) and I'll apply to a regional. Until then I'll stick with corporate/135.
Tinstaafl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd Aug 2016, 15:12   #100 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Global
Posts: 151
Sorry guys (for my last post) i should have been more detailed...he went on to do his conversions and then CFI in Canada. What i am saying is sure if you have experience im sure a regional will hire/sponsor you if the pool gets very lean but i wouldn't bank on a US school considering the cost and the added pressure of getting a low hour job there (for international students). Even ATP flight school back in the day stated they will only sponsor Modular training, not the Cadet scheme. So after your CPL, if you're lucky you will continue to get sponsored as a CFI.

My point was that for Canadian's there isn't a reason to go down to Florida to do training AND pay housing and currency conversion. Sure our winters and weather is an issue but would a few months really make a difference when you can save on transport/housing/conversion/time and fees?

The US has a good problem on their hands, lots of need for regional pilots and im sure the majors will continue to expand and have retirees. Here in Canada what sucks is that you spend 1-2 years instructing after your CPL, 2-4 years at a regional flying a Navajo, only to get an interview for a low paying q400 FO job for another 4 before you can even think about an a320/737. And mind you'll be hovering around a 35-45k salary for almost a decade.

Like Tinstaafl mentioned, hardly attractive. We have enough pilots here in Canada, just not attractive positions given the time required to a jet! There are many pilots here who would jump ship down south to fly a CRJ/ERJ at 1500hrs than flying a prop for a decade and for many of my fellow mates i hope that day comes.

Bash me all you want for this, but the days of flying a prop for 8 years to prove you can fly a jet are over, just look in the UK/ME and Asia and even the US now with regionals grabbing people right at 1500. They got MPL programs and iATPL programs buzzing. Maybe im just naive about the aviation industry in Canada, but until you get to a major, the package is hardly better than a full time retail job at a mall, especially here up North!
striker26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:02.


1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1