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Old 21st Feb 2003, 18:12   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: England
Posts: 357
Question Anyone For the Professional Aviator Spine?

Interested in canvassing opinion on the PA Spine. Have just sent in my election form. In my circumstances, the cost-benefit analysis just did not add up; too much risk for not enough guaranteed return. I realise that for many the picture will look much rosier. Interestingly, there are still some vital pieces of information missing and, although PMA tried to be helpful (really!), the answers just weren't there to be had. I am particularly insensed that we are being asked to make this once only and irreversible decision too quickly, and without the benefit of seeing all the numbers. In a few years I may have to acccept that I made the wrong decision, but at the moment I am left feeling:

I am not a turkey,

I won't vote for Christmas,

I am not in the habit of writing blank cheques.

So the answer was "No, Thanks". Anyone want to share their thoughts?
Ginseng is offline  
Old 21st Feb 2003, 18:44   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Hotels various
Posts: 21
Ginseng

I have yet to make my decision. I would be interested if you could elaboate on exactly what you consider to be "too much risk and not enough guaranteed return".

Thanks, OBD
Old Bus Driver is offline  
Old 21st Feb 2003, 18:55   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: England
Posts: 357
OBD

Depends on your particular circumstances. I'll elaborate in a private message for the moment.

G
Ginseng is offline  
Old 21st Feb 2003, 19:18   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Scotland
Posts: 99
Decision Time

In the same situation myself...

Have had a first look at the sums though and it does look promising. The difference in pay between Spec Aircrew and PAS(at this years rates and not allowing for promotion to Spec Aircrew Sqn Ldr) serving from age 40 to 55 is approx 51 000 and with a slightly bigger pension to boot.

Which begged my question to PMA do those who sign up to the PAS still get the FRI2 (50 000)? Still wait for an answer on that one.......I want a written guarantee of the FRI2 before I sign across to PAS as I'd rather go Spec Aircrew and take the 50 000 now rather than over the next 15years if PAS do not get FRI2.

Anybody else asked the question?
nav attacking is offline  
Old 21st Feb 2003, 19:32   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Land of the Rising Taxes
Posts: 128
nav attacking,

Are you sure about your figures? In my particular case (Nav also) I worked out that I end up at the top whack as approx 200 per annum worse off. This is compensated for by the increased pension/gratuity.

Just can't see where your 51k comes from
Stan Bydike is offline  
Old 21st Feb 2003, 20:08   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: It's a secret
Posts: 222
Well some of us chaps had a close look at it while we were down south recently and for an old git like myself(pilot 48) it seems to offer a higher pay rate and more pension if I stay till 55. If I leave early for whatever reason(and I can think of lots at the moment) I just go back to the current SA arrangements so it would appear to be a win win situation!

Things to watch out for are Govt plans to tax your gratuity after 2010 and not receiving your pension until 65!!!!!

By the way there is already a thread on this subject which started a couple of weeks ago.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=80821
Specaircrew is offline  
Old 21st Feb 2003, 21:51   #7 (permalink)

Pilot Officer PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 403
Good grief Specaircrew have you aged that much since I left, I thought you were about 15.5

I for one will take it if its offered, but I have a few months to think about it yet.

Tonks
Tonkenna is offline  
Old 21st Feb 2003, 22:03   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Age: 51
Posts: 1,655
I have read the document over and over and it seems like an OK deal. Not as good as first promised, but still an increase in pay and pension. Remember, this is what WE asked for a few years ago. The pay deal might improve with specialist pay in the future that will take you up the ladder for each qualification gained. Why have some people not signed up............... simple, the terms of service are DRAFT ONLY and your decision is irreversible. When they are confirmed, I will look again and make my choice. I'm tempted though......
jayteeto is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2003, 00:46   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: roughly near Everleigh DZ
Posts: 168
If I sign up for PA does it mean my Boss is amateur aircrew?
ahh, why not, it's money for old rope anyway..............
DummyRun is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2003, 10:02   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: UK
Age: 55
Posts: 1,110
Flt Lt SA Pilot, age 44. I tend to agree with Specaircrew about it being win, win. If I leave within the 5 yrs I go back to where I was, otherwise I win. Possible benefit too if downgraded over current SA terms(?) (PAS minus high rate FP is better than Flt Lt minus SA rate FP).

What some of us are concerned about is how our 'contracts' change re postings - especially for Sqn Ldr.

Nav Att - presumably if you're questioning FRI2 you're pre-38 with an offer of assimilation? Don't all those offers of SA become offers of PAS automatically? I understood that after Apr the only option (for Flt Lt) post 38 would be PAS.
Background Noise is online now  
Old 22nd Feb 2003, 11:00   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: England
Posts: 357
OBD

Did you receive my private message? The computer seemed to throw a sulk just at the vinegar stroke. If you have it, I would be happy for you to forward a copy to Biggus if you can.

To all those others on the thread, as I said to OBD, do what's right for you. If the cap fits, wear it.

Regards

G
Ginseng is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2003, 11:46   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Hotels various
Posts: 21
G

No, I've checked and your private message didn't get through to me. If you send it again I'll pass it on to Biggus.

Thanks, OBD
Old Bus Driver is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2003, 08:52   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Scotland
Posts: 99
Thumbs up GOOD NEWS AT LAST

Good news for those with the option of taking PAS.

PMA 34 has stated that the Terminal Grant (TG) (gratuity) is 3 times the pension at point of retirement regardless of TOS. For PAS personnel it will be 3 times the PAS pension calculated at point of retirement based on days on the spine at daily supplement.

Also P staff have confirmed with Pay Policy Main Building that the FRI 2 is payable to those on PAS as well.

I'm laughing all the way to the bank........
nav attacking is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2003, 18:07   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Blighty
Posts: 58
Talking

Yep, signed up this week. Looks like a good deal for me too.

Nav attacking, thanks for the advise

Ching ching

MOG
Miserable Old Git is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2003, 19:11   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: It's a secret
Posts: 222
And then they go and spoil it all by posting you to a really shitty ground tour :-( Some of us would be happy to take a pay cut to stay in the cockpit of a front line aircraft but it would appear that the RAF still thinks that retention problems can be solved by simply throwing money at you!
Specaircrew is offline  
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