Mil Training timelines

[woodja51]

To all military pilots - I’m seeking some info on training times for RNzAF / USAF /RAF /RCAF and RSAF. The question is “how long from start of flying training to pilots brevet.” I know the systems are different as some stream etc but keen for any inputs .. trying to compare methods. Not after state secrets , just approx ideas ( I know RAF pilot training is well behind schedule for example ) .. for a research project into pilot training

[Lonewolf_50]

Originally Posted by woodja51

To all military pilots - I’m seeking some info on training times for RNzAF / USAF /RAF /RCAF and RSAF. The question is “how long from start of flying training to pilots brevet.” I know the systems are different as some stream etc but keen for any inputs .. trying to compare methods. Not after state secrets , just approx ideas ( I know RAF pilot training is well behind schedule for example ) .. for a research project into pilot training

To give a rough order of magnitude for USN "rough" syllabus length (if you discount accession into the military and OCS requirements just to arrive in flight school, to include USMC's TBS) ~
a rotary wing pilot can be produced in about 8 to 10 months, multi engine in a similar time line, and a jet pilot in about 14-16 months.
That estimate cannot account for a variety of things that will cause stops or gaps in training (carrier availability for the CQ process being one long pole in the tent), fleet groundings (OBOGS mayhem a few years ago), and so on.
Those are Rough Order of Magnitude Numbers based on my previous experience in the pilot training arm of the USN (been well over a decade) and a quick look at recently updated and allegedly official syllabus time lengths.
There's a bit of plus and minus attached to those.
I don't know what you mean by "pilot's brevet" - our term (US Navy and Marine) is "wings/winging/earning one's wings". That's shorthand for official designation as a Naval Aviator.

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I won't speak to the USAF timelines. I'll let a Powder Blue colleague offer up their best estimate.

[finestkind]

Originally Posted by woodja51

To all military pilots - I’m seeking some info on training times for RNzAF / USAF /RAF /RCAF and RSAF. The question is “how long from start of flying training to pilots brevet.” I know the systems are different as some stream etc but keen for any inputs .. trying to compare methods. Not after state secrets , just approx ideas ( I know RAF pilot training is well behind schedule for example ) .. for a research project into pilot training

Are you after training times set in the syllabi or actual training times in real life. A bit of a hard task considering the issues that plague a course let alone the system and how much it can and does change from year to year.

[Ascend Charlie]

Woodja, for historical reference, our RAAF pilots' course started January 1972, 6 months basic including ground school and 65 hrs on a piston prop, then from June 72 to March 73 on jets. Posted to helicopters, April 73 to June 73, in 3 months we did ground school and 105 hrs on Hueys to come out with GF quals, an instrument rating, and qualified on NVFR, low fly, winching, external loads, formation, and upgrades from B models to D and H.

So, 18 months in total from scratch to qualified jet pilot and chopper pilot.

Currently, it is a total mess, students on the PC21 being farmed out to the Singapore air force group at Pearce, considerable re-training when absorbed back into the fold, long periods of no flying and enforced leave, then long waits after graduation to start a helicopter conversion with the Navy.

[woodja51]

Thx So far

Thanks for inputs so far … the term brevet is the wings etc ( for my USN colleagues ) .. I guess I should have narrowed the time down a little in framing the question. I too went from zero to hero on the RAAF pilots course circa 1985 in around 11 months. Herc conversion was three months on top of that ( with gaps etc made it a total time of about 16 months ) … the current system is designed for 15 months 20% friction to be done in about 12 months. ( all thru -21 ). My question is based on the syllabus time ( theoretical ) versus actual ( real world friction ). Agreed obogs / unforeseen issues will affect reality (obogs issues seem to be occurring again for RAAF ) .. RAAF courses now blowing out to about 18 months from zero to wings , not including OTS / OCS .. thx for help so far !

[Background Noise]

Similar time, early 80s in the UK, it took me almost exactly 4 years from starting at officer school to arriving on a front line fast jet squadron - with wings just about half way through that process. I wasn't the shortest pathway but there were considerably more who took (a lot) longer.

[Herod]

A bit historical, but back in the sixties. Joined the RAF 7 Dec '64. IOT, FTS (Jet Provost), helicopter training (Sioux and Whirlwind). Joined the squadron 4 Oct '66. 22 months, and that included 2 months holding for the JP course.

[teeteringhead]

Yes Herod, rotary always (then) had much shorter training times - and little or no holding.

I joined in Feb '68, and was on my first Squadron in June/July '70. A bit longer than you, but in addition to JP, Sioux and Whirlwind, I had Chipmunk at the start and Wessex to finish, so qualified on 5 types in just over 2 years service (and less than 2 years flying......). An' ye tell that t't' young folk o' today, an' they'll not believe yer.......

[Just checked Log Book Vol 1 - in case memory might be playing tricks - July 18th '68 Chipmunk famil, Jun 30th '70 first trip on Squadron. A total of 330-odd hours: 60 hrs Chipmunk, 141 hrs JP [all Mk 4, but that's another story...], 44 hrs Sioux, 59 hrs Whirlwind and 31 hrs Wessex!]