Summer budget 2015.
Higher rate tax
For those of us that are too lazy to do all the reading (and potentially too stupid to understand) may I ask a quick question from the experts regarding tax.
If you were to earn, let's say, about 60k a year and the tax band changes come into effect how much more could one expect to see in their bank account over the course of a year?
BV
If you were to earn, let's say, about 60k a year and the tax band changes come into effect how much more could one expect to see in their bank account over the course of a year?
BV
BV
Assuming you're being optimistic and hoping to take home more if the tax hands move in your favour, I'd say still not a lot as CinC Home Command will invariably intercept any windfall before the ink has dried on the statement 
If you were to earn, let's say, about 60k a year and the tax band changes come into effect how much more could one expect to see in their bank account over the course of a year?
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SUMMER BUDGET PRIORITIES
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8th Jul 2015,
Jimlad1 (your #12),
"The Chancellor committed to spending money from the Bank Tax to ensure the renovation and restoration of RAF Uxbridge's WW2 bunker, which is excellent news."
* * *
The Telegraph launched its Forgotten Heroes appeal in 2008.
"The target of £5 million for the project was finally reached after major donations from John Caudwell, the mobile phone entrepreneur who sold his Phones4u business in 2005, and Lord Ashcroft".
"The RAF Bomber Command Association has campaigned to be exempted from an £800,000 tax bill. Although this is not possible, the Government announced a one-off capital grant of £796,000 towards the creation of the memorial on top of £204,000 already agreed, taking the total to more than £10 million".
"The heritage minister, John Penrose, said: “The sacrifice made by everyone who served, and the many who lost their lives, with Bomber Command during the war humbles us all".
“Their courage and heroism helped win the war, so it is absolutely right that this should be marked with a permanent memorial".
“These government grants will settle the tax bill that the campaigners will have to pay, so the public’s donations will all go to fund the memorial, rather than to the tax man.”
"Jim Dooley, the chairman of the memorial fund-raising committee, said: 'This is fantastic news'. Everyone involved will be delighted that David Cameron has agreed that the Government should foot the tax bill.”
* * *
16 Jul 2010 (Cameron):
“I’m delighted there will now be a permanent memorial to these heroes and that the Government grant will help to cover the tax bill"
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(By Tim Ross, Political Correspondent, in Stockholm 09 Feb 2012):
"A Telegraph appeal raised more than £10 million from readers towards the estimated £60 million cost of the monument but campaigners behind the project faced a tax bill of almost £800,000".
"The Prime Minister announced that the Government would provide a grant to cover the bill and the memorial is now expected to open in Green Park, near Buckingham Palace, in June".
"The RAF Bomber Command Association has been campaigning for a permanent memorial to the 55,573 crew who lost their lives during the war".
"Although the project has attracted controversy, Germany has agreed to donate a yew tree to be planted in the garden of remembrance next to the memorial".
"Mr Cameron said: “The 55,573 bomber crewmen killed in World War Two made the ultimate sacrifice in the defence of our country".
* * *
"Daily Telegraph", Wednesday 08 July 2015:
"Lifeline for Bomber Command memorial".
"David Cameron has stepped in to help pay for a permanent memorial to the 55,000 members of RAF Bomber Command who died in the Second World War".
* * *
Q: How many casualties were there in the war at the RAF Uxbridge's Bunker ?
Danny42C.
Originally Posted by Danny42C
Q: How many casualties were there in the war at the RAF Uxbridge's Bunker ?
I'm a proud supporter of the Bomber Command memorial but even I can see that the 11 Group bunker in Uxbridge holds a special appeal. From there was directed the defence of Britain at its most vulnerable. From there Churchill witnessed the narrowness of our margin over the Luftwaffe and conceived his legendary "few" speech. The victory conjured up from that bunker marked the end of the westward expansion of the Third Reich and the survival of Britain. That should be enough reason to preserve it forever. The Bomber Command campaign, whatever your views on its effectiveness or morality, did not play such a direct role in our national survival.
I'm not saying that the Bomber Command memorial shouldn't have received public funding. I am saying that in a contest for limited public funding, securing the commemoration of the Battle of Britain should trump it.
Summer budget 2015.
LJ and Melchett.
Thanks for the replies. I didn't expect it to be much but they usually giveth and then taketh away.
130 quid PA or a tenner a month. What will I spend it all on?!
BV
Thanks for the replies. I didn't expect it to be much but they usually giveth and then taketh away.
130 quid PA or a tenner a month. What will I spend it all on?!
BV
Whilst announcing the money for the 11 Gp bunker enabled Osbourne to clap himself on the back (something at which politicos seem to excel), when I visited it 4 years ago it did not look in any worse nick than other MoD real estate!
Surprised there has been no comment on the fact that, in order to reach the NATO 2% of GDP target, Osborne is resorting to some financial chicanery, eg including elements of intel spend, and also UN peace keeping costs (presumably previously in the FO budget).
Surprised there has been no comment on the fact that, in order to reach the NATO 2% of GDP target, Osborne is resorting to some financial chicanery, eg including elements of intel spend, and also UN peace keeping costs (presumably previously in the FO budget).
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Concept of ops then.
Get a second job and pay yourself a huge divi, if you fancy a decent sized family then don't hang about (you've two years), practice telling your kids how the new living wage means they needn't (mustn't!) go to uni, and sell that buy to let. The 40% threshold to £43,000 works out at only about a 1.5% increased benefit, so quietly shelve that secondary duty too.
Get a second job and pay yourself a huge divi, if you fancy a decent sized family then don't hang about (you've two years), practice telling your kids how the new living wage means they needn't (mustn't!) go to uni, and sell that buy to let. The 40% threshold to £43,000 works out at only about a 1.5% increased benefit, so quietly shelve that secondary duty too.
I call that neo-bilkoism (after Sgt Bilko)
BTW, It's pretty much the same thought process that did for the Roman Empire.
130 quid PA or a tenner a month. What will I spend it all on?!
Look me up if you need help drinking it.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Melchett, indeed, and the same with the pension and avoiding paying the minimum wage. Of course she would argue that she is offsetting the gardener' s, of job man's, and cleaner' s wages against the cook' s.
Reference the continuing 1% pay rise...
Firstly, we may as well can the AFPRB then and save a bit of money!
Also here is something I thought about last night whilst supping some Sharp's Coaster in my local. Those that have PVR'd/ET'd or left at a retirement point with a pension in payment and have gone FTRS would seem to be doing better than those that stayed in - that is because the pension is going up at CPI and the salary, for those that stay in and what the final pension is based upon, has been going up at a much lesser 1% for our yearly pay rise from Mr Osborne. For example the CPI for the last 4 years has been about 10% in total, whereas the past 4 years has seen just 4% in wage rise - so those that have left and rejoined have seen a proportion of their take home grow by 6% over those in the Regulars. Also, when retired at 55plus those that left early with a AFPS75 pension that stopped growing from 1 Apr 15 may well end up with a smaller final pension than those that jumped FTRS around the same date. However, this only works for those that are approaching 55 as otherwise the AFPS75 pension payment stays flat until age 55 - however, all is not lost, the age 55 index-linking AFPS75 pension will be growing at a faster rate due to the difference in CPI and the wage rise.
Food for thought? Maybe rejecting the extension to 60 as a Regular and 'retiring' to a FTRS post might be better for some (approaching 55) with an AFPS75 pension?
I'm sure some bright spark will correct my boozy musings...
LJ
Firstly, we may as well can the AFPRB then and save a bit of money!
Also here is something I thought about last night whilst supping some Sharp's Coaster in my local. Those that have PVR'd/ET'd or left at a retirement point with a pension in payment and have gone FTRS would seem to be doing better than those that stayed in - that is because the pension is going up at CPI and the salary, for those that stay in and what the final pension is based upon, has been going up at a much lesser 1% for our yearly pay rise from Mr Osborne. For example the CPI for the last 4 years has been about 10% in total, whereas the past 4 years has seen just 4% in wage rise - so those that have left and rejoined have seen a proportion of their take home grow by 6% over those in the Regulars. Also, when retired at 55plus those that left early with a AFPS75 pension that stopped growing from 1 Apr 15 may well end up with a smaller final pension than those that jumped FTRS around the same date. However, this only works for those that are approaching 55 as otherwise the AFPS75 pension payment stays flat until age 55 - however, all is not lost, the age 55 index-linking AFPS75 pension will be growing at a faster rate due to the difference in CPI and the wage rise.
Food for thought? Maybe rejecting the extension to 60 as a Regular and 'retiring' to a FTRS post might be better for some (approaching 55) with an AFPS75 pension?
I'm sure some bright spark will correct my boozy musings...
LJ
Easy Street:-
You are of course entitled to your opinions and to share them with us, but I find that to be an extraordinary statement to make. Visit London says of the Bomber Command Memorial :-
The MOD says of the Battle of Britain London Memorial:-
The MOD says of the Bomber Command London Memorial:-
Which is why I quote Visit London. As Danny says, these two Memorials commemorate the people who served and those who sadly died in these battles, rather than the battles themselves.
As to the significance of the battles, that is again a matter of opinion of course. Mine is that the BoB saved us from losing the war in 1940, the Battle of Germany enabled victory in 1945. Goering by contrast declared the BoB a draw. Even he could scarcely say the same of 1945!
I'm not saying that the Bomber Command memorial shouldn't have received public funding. I am saying that in a contest for limited public funding, securing the commemoration of the Battle of Britain should trump it.
The Bomber Command Memorial was completed in 2012 and is dedicated to the 55,573 aircrew who died while serving in the RAF with Bomber Command in the Second World War.
In addition a Battle of Britain Monument was unveiled in 2005 on Victoria Embankment near the RAF Memorial in London in memory of all who took part in the Battle, civilian and military. The names of all the aircrew who were awarded the Battle of Britain clasp are recorded.
Sorry, the news article you have requested cannot be found, please try again from our index page.
As to the significance of the battles, that is again a matter of opinion of course. Mine is that the BoB saved us from losing the war in 1940, the Battle of Germany enabled victory in 1945. Goering by contrast declared the BoB a draw. Even he could scarcely say the same of 1945!
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For example the CPI for the last 4 years has been about 10% in total, whereas the past 4 years has seen just 4% in wage rise - so those that have left and rejoined have seen a proportion of their take home grow by 6% over those in the Regulars
However, I saw presentation on the identical situation in seventies, when inflation was running as much as 20%
and yearly military payrises were not a given. Some dude from PMC contrasted a Wg Cdr who left in the early seventies at an option point, with one who stayed in full term. As I recall the one who left earlier ended up on a considerably higher pension even though he served several years less. (PS to avoid confusion, the presentation was about this seventies situation - I saw it in the nineties, I'm old but I'm not that old!)
Originally Posted by chuglalug2
As to the significance of the battles, that is again a matter of opinion of course. Mine is that the BoB saved us from losing the war in 1940
That is precisely why I consider the BoB more worthy of public commemoration than the BC campaign. That bunker in Uxbridge was the place from which the last-ditch defence of our great country was organised!
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Easy Street (your #25),
I take your point. As it happens, I spent a tour in the early '50s as the Adjutant of an (Auxiliary) Fighter Control Unit, and though not in the Fighter Control Branch myself, of course knew that our main purpose was to train an immediately available reserve of Fighter Controllers, Radar Operators and Fighter Plotters for the ROTOR stations.
In an (ill-fated !) Open Letter to my troops and enquirers, I wrote (of the history of the early days): "These enabled us to use our few precious Spitfires and Hurricanes only when and exactly where they were needed, and not wasted on largely futile Standing Patrols".
Certainly these underground Control stations (wartime precursors of ROTOR, and "holes" in our parlance !), of which Uxbridge was the best known, and the Chain Home radars, were a vital part of the BoB, without which we would certainly have lost the war. But without Bomber Command, we would have been unable to avenge the "Blitz" and batter the Third Reich into submission - or at least to take a major part in doing so. "They have sown the Wind", quoted Harris, "They will reap the Whirlwind" (and they did !)
I would dispute your conclusion that, "in a contest" (with Bomber Command) "for limited public funding, securing the commemoration of the Battle of Britain should trump it".
Without the BoB, there would have been no Bomber Command, it is true. But in the the context of the astronomical sums which the MOD seems to have seen vanish down its "black hole", the cost of the Bomber Memorial would have been trifling. There is a nasty suspicion that the (almost wholly post-war) bitter denigration of Harris and his men played a part here: our ("Politically Correct") modern Politicians wanted to be seen as sympathetic to that widely disseminated calumny.
The 55,573 dead of Bomber Command deserve better of their country.
But as Chugalug says (#32): "As to the significance of the battles, that is again a matter of opinion of course. Mine is that the BoB saved us from losing the war in 1940, the Battle of Germany enabled victory in 1945. Goering declared the BoB a draw. Even he could scarcely say the same of 1945!"
That puts it in a nutshell, IMHO.
Danny42C.
Last edited by Danny42C; 10th Jul 2015 at 02:16. Reason: Tidy up & Addn
Easy Street:-
and worthy of preservation for that, I agree. That though was not your proposition, which was to fund it in preference to the Bomber Command Memorial. There seems to be two objections that come to mind;
1. You are comparing Apples and Pears. The first will commemorate a battle, the second those who died in one. There are two memorials already to the BoB, in London and Capel le Ferne.
2. You fight wars to win, not simply to avoid defeat. The BoB ensured the latter in 1940, but we could have still faced defeat at any time thereafter. Bomber Command ensured that didn't happen by contributing to the victory of 1945.
We seem to have a preference for celebrating those battles that avoid our defeat rather than those that ensure our victory. Trafalgar is quite rightly commemorated every year in the London Square that is its memorial. Waterloo is celebrated every 200 years, and its memorial is a London bridge (or was until it was replaced).
Danny, absolutely agree with you. The modern Royal Air Force would prefer that the WW2 Bomber Offensive had never happened, though presumably it still prefers our victory. I don't think that the one could follow the other.
That bunker in Uxbridge was the place from which the last-ditch defence of our great country was organised!
1. You are comparing Apples and Pears. The first will commemorate a battle, the second those who died in one. There are two memorials already to the BoB, in London and Capel le Ferne.
2. You fight wars to win, not simply to avoid defeat. The BoB ensured the latter in 1940, but we could have still faced defeat at any time thereafter. Bomber Command ensured that didn't happen by contributing to the victory of 1945.
We seem to have a preference for celebrating those battles that avoid our defeat rather than those that ensure our victory. Trafalgar is quite rightly commemorated every year in the London Square that is its memorial. Waterloo is celebrated every 200 years, and its memorial is a London bridge (or was until it was replaced).
Danny, absolutely agree with you. The modern Royal Air Force would prefer that the WW2 Bomber Offensive had never happened, though presumably it still prefers our victory. I don't think that the one could follow the other.
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Danny,
I'm not intending to be patronising, and at the risk of sustaining wrath for linking age with acuity, you sure seem to have retained your marbles. As one of the dwindling witnesses to the proceedings of the time, are you remembering today in any particular way?
If you're not already, you should be on Twitter to share your experiences and memories, I think you'd enjoy it. I know Twitter would.
I'm not intending to be patronising, and at the risk of sustaining wrath for linking age with acuity, you sure seem to have retained your marbles. As one of the dwindling witnesses to the proceedings of the time, are you remembering today in any particular way?
If you're not already, you should be on Twitter to share your experiences and memories, I think you'd enjoy it. I know Twitter would.
the Battle of Germany enabled victory in 1945
I don't think that the one could follow the other.
The 55,573 dead of Bomber Command deserve better of their country
For the avoidance of doubt, my position is not intended to make any judgement on morality of the Bomber Command campaign - for the record, I believe it was morally justifiable but do not intend to drag the thread off with a discourse on why so. I would have preferred the memorial to have been constructed at public expense, and clearly the government could have paid for both the BC memorial and the restoration of the 11 Gp bunker. But politics doesn't work like that (again, to avoid thread drift, I'm going to leave that standing as an assertion).
If a choice has to be made, for me the bunker wins. Yes, the Nazis perceived the BofB as a draw, but even if we accept that view, it was damned important not to lose! The record is replete with great battlefield victories of arguable, little or no historical significance; the reason why Trafalgar and Waterloo are (rightly) held up as victories worth commemorating is their profound strategic legacy, establishing as they did a century-long British pre-eminence. For me, the BofB joins this elite pairing because of its profound strategic significance, regardless of whether it can be counted as a tactical victory. As others have pointed out, the bomber campaign, OVERLORD and the NW Europe campaign were all dependent upon Britain avoiding defeat in those critical early stages of the war, and the BofB marked the first significant failure of the thereto-unstoppable Nazi war machine. We still remember Drake's defence against the Spanish Armada for similar reasons.
As a final point, beyond its preservation as a memorial to the BofB, the 11 Gp bunker serves as a superb testament to the ingenuity of our scientists (radar), to the value of bold and innovative military thought (Dowding and Park), and to the social revolution-precipitating role of women in war (WAAF plotters). In other words, it shows how an educated, liberal, enlightened society has significant strengths which can be drawn upon in adversity, despite the misgivings of many. As a relic or monument to visit to remember and think upon military matters, I consider it rivalled in the UK only by HMS Victory.
If a choice has to be made, for me the bunker wins. Yes, the Nazis perceived the BofB as a draw, but even if we accept that view, it was damned important not to lose! The record is replete with great battlefield victories of arguable, little or no historical significance; the reason why Trafalgar and Waterloo are (rightly) held up as victories worth commemorating is their profound strategic legacy, establishing as they did a century-long British pre-eminence. For me, the BofB joins this elite pairing because of its profound strategic significance, regardless of whether it can be counted as a tactical victory. As others have pointed out, the bomber campaign, OVERLORD and the NW Europe campaign were all dependent upon Britain avoiding defeat in those critical early stages of the war, and the BofB marked the first significant failure of the thereto-unstoppable Nazi war machine. We still remember Drake's defence against the Spanish Armada for similar reasons.
As a final point, beyond its preservation as a memorial to the BofB, the 11 Gp bunker serves as a superb testament to the ingenuity of our scientists (radar), to the value of bold and innovative military thought (Dowding and Park), and to the social revolution-precipitating role of women in war (WAAF plotters). In other words, it shows how an educated, liberal, enlightened society has significant strengths which can be drawn upon in adversity, despite the misgivings of many. As a relic or monument to visit to remember and think upon military matters, I consider it rivalled in the UK only by HMS Victory.