OP 'TIL WE DROP
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Navy chefs were good lads (and good women).
Always put a "night flyers" meal on for us onboard the CVS. Hot meal, sometimes the leftovers from the main meal, but sometimes pie chips and beans. Or similar. But hot. Then a cup of tea, fag or small cigar in my case, back to work......not rocket science.
But always appreciated by me.
Is it true hundreds of RAF groundcrew died in WW2 from illness brought about by working generally at night in Winter on aircraft out in the sticks in the airbases of Bomber Command?
Lot to relearn, every generation finds this.
But always appreciated by me.
Is it true hundreds of RAF groundcrew died in WW2 from illness brought about by working generally at night in Winter on aircraft out in the sticks in the airbases of Bomber Command?
Lot to relearn, every generation finds this.
Hangar Shuffle,
Bomber Harris describes the 'thousands' of ground crew in Bomber Command who died (pneumonia, vehicle accidents, TB, and the like) as a result of the austere conditions - hence why he campaigned at the time for a Medal for both air crew and ground crew. Opposed by the Army, of course.
Same arguments 70 years later for deployed personnel supporting air operations over Libya; I recently had a rather heated discussion with a visiting Colonel about this. He contended that staying in a 4* hotel cancelled out operational service. I pointed out that no one was staying in a 4* hotel....but let's not the facts get in the way of a good story.
Speaking of which has anyone seen the latest on the Officers' Long Service medal? There was to be an announcement before Christmas.
Bomber Harris describes the 'thousands' of ground crew in Bomber Command who died (pneumonia, vehicle accidents, TB, and the like) as a result of the austere conditions - hence why he campaigned at the time for a Medal for both air crew and ground crew. Opposed by the Army, of course.
Same arguments 70 years later for deployed personnel supporting air operations over Libya; I recently had a rather heated discussion with a visiting Colonel about this. He contended that staying in a 4* hotel cancelled out operational service. I pointed out that no one was staying in a 4* hotel....but let's not the facts get in the way of a good story.
Speaking of which has anyone seen the latest on the Officers' Long Service medal? There was to be an announcement before Christmas.
Ground crew
Haraka Senior, as a 19 year old ex-Halton brat, ( 39 entry) found himself in Malta in 1942.
Already well down on weight due to the rationing , he was working on the line when he got "Malta Dog" ( a.k.a. three day fly disease IIRC).
Pulling the chocks away from a departing 126 Sqn. Spitfire, he fainted, the Spitfire rolling across his wrist as it went on it's way.
He came to when a bucket of water was thrown over his head by his Flight Sergeant, who pointed out there were other aircraft around the dispersal that required urgent attention.
It goes back to the ethos that in the RAF of those days, the men basically supported the equipment in order to fight .
Already well down on weight due to the rationing , he was working on the line when he got "Malta Dog" ( a.k.a. three day fly disease IIRC).
Pulling the chocks away from a departing 126 Sqn. Spitfire, he fainted, the Spitfire rolling across his wrist as it went on it's way.
He came to when a bucket of water was thrown over his head by his Flight Sergeant, who pointed out there were other aircraft around the dispersal that required urgent attention.
It goes back to the ethos that in the RAF of those days, the men basically supported the equipment in order to fight .
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1956 - Suez
The Tangmere wing of Hunter F5s (Nos 1 & 34 Squadrons) arrived at Akrotiri and spent a month in pretty basic conditions. The pilots lived in new MQs but no water of electricity on safari beds. After a month of this we moved to Nicosia where we started operating a "battle flight " system with all the aircraft pooled and the squadrons working from midday to midday alternately. It soon became obvious that the station was still on a peacetime footing, i.e. everything closed at 1200 and off for Egyptian PT. Our officers were in tents opposite the mess entrance. At the station execs' meeting attended by our wingco he forcefully made the point about lack of support from the station for the operational units. He also complained of the accommodation for the pilots vis a v the station staff and was facetiously told by O.C. Admin that the only permanent accommodation available was the squash courts. The S*** hit the fan that afternoon when a visiting army team arrived to find the off duty squadron had moved in. Paddy Chrisham, the AOC, had his ear battered by the chaps in the bar and very soon proper rooms in the mess were found, admittedly doubled up, and the equippers had to open all day etc.
But it seems that attitudes never change!
The Tangmere wing of Hunter F5s (Nos 1 & 34 Squadrons) arrived at Akrotiri and spent a month in pretty basic conditions. The pilots lived in new MQs but no water of electricity on safari beds. After a month of this we moved to Nicosia where we started operating a "battle flight " system with all the aircraft pooled and the squadrons working from midday to midday alternately. It soon became obvious that the station was still on a peacetime footing, i.e. everything closed at 1200 and off for Egyptian PT. Our officers were in tents opposite the mess entrance. At the station execs' meeting attended by our wingco he forcefully made the point about lack of support from the station for the operational units. He also complained of the accommodation for the pilots vis a v the station staff and was facetiously told by O.C. Admin that the only permanent accommodation available was the squash courts. The S*** hit the fan that afternoon when a visiting army team arrived to find the off duty squadron had moved in. Paddy Chrisham, the AOC, had his ear battered by the chaps in the bar and very soon proper rooms in the mess were found, admittedly doubled up, and the equippers had to open all day etc.
But it seems that attitudes never change!
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Speaking of which has anyone seen the latest on the Officers' Long Service medal? There was to be an announcement before Christmas.
Dallas,
Like it or not, it's going to happen. It was specifically noted in the Holmes medal review that direct entry officers were the only people not eligible for some form of long service award, an anomaly when you note that Reservist officers without time in the ranks before commissioning qualify.
It's all 'one force' now, I don't see how they will be able to ignore it especially with the issue of the NDM being kicked into the long grass. This would mean that as long as you met the criteria, everybody should leave service with at least one gong.
Like it or not, it's going to happen. It was specifically noted in the Holmes medal review that direct entry officers were the only people not eligible for some form of long service award, an anomaly when you note that Reservist officers without time in the ranks before commissioning qualify.
It's all 'one force' now, I don't see how they will be able to ignore it especially with the issue of the NDM being kicked into the long grass. This would mean that as long as you met the criteria, everybody should leave service with at least one gong.
By Jove, OCs Admin come in for a lot of bashing! All I worked for, and Mike West at B....k was stunning example, strove to give best support to the squadrons. I certainly did when I reached those dizzy heights. When I was in Command accounts before an Inspection I used to ring OC Acts and tell him that when I flew I was happier and thus wrote nicer reports - how many hours could he get me? What he did not realise what this was a test of his relationship with the squadrons on his station - I had usually already fixed the flying! However, there doubtless were some "jobsworths" in the Admin Branch - did my best to change attitudes.
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I emailed the MP who asked the PQ about the rations and informed her, that in the opinion of someone who was actually there and had a bill for the food, she had been lied to in the answer. Here is her reply:
It's nice when they listen.
Dear Mr Surplus, thank you for your email. Let’s see what reply I receive!
Pursuant to his reply to question 217721 on 18th December if he will a) confirm when the catering arrangements were extended to assist with Op SHADER b) what choices were in place on 4th December 2014 c) whether personnel on Op SHADER received their meals at Crown Expense on 4th December 2014 and if he will make a statement.
Madeleine
Madeleine Moon MP
Bridgend
House of Commons
London SW1A 0AA
02072194417
Pursuant to his reply to question 217721 on 18th December if he will a) confirm when the catering arrangements were extended to assist with Op SHADER b) what choices were in place on 4th December 2014 c) whether personnel on Op SHADER received their meals at Crown Expense on 4th December 2014 and if he will make a statement.
Madeleine
Madeleine Moon MP
Bridgend
House of Commons
London SW1A 0AA
02072194417
I presume the same people who called for that young lad to be banned over FOIs now go for you. A PQ like that will stop all work across the relevant parts of the RAF until it is answered. Some poor bugger is going to have to work out of the menu choices from a month a go.
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What does this saga all prove, if anything?
That the people at the bottom of the RAF are just little people to the ones at the top, even though they are the bricks,mortar and foundations that are keeping it all up?
Out here where I work, within a multinational organization, our workforce ranges from a locally sourced pretty basic labour force, going up to semi and skilled blue and white collar workforce up to top industry executives (who are very highly valued, qualified and paid accordingly).All creeds and all colours.
Not many British, in fact probably less than 2% or 3% of the workforce.
We are all on the same food, and use the same dining facility, queue up together and believe me the place works so much better because of this.
This is the second time I have seen this in the last few years...both foreign run and managed big multinationals....
The only other place I ever witnessed the same sort of set up within the British military was Charlie Camp at Basra COB, which was utterly unique but still worked very well.
What I'm saying is something is basically wrong in the way the British managerial classes are thinking and managing things....other civilised nations do it far, far better.
Out here where I work, within a multinational organization, our workforce ranges from a locally sourced pretty basic labour force, going up to semi and skilled blue and white collar workforce up to top industry executives (who are very highly valued, qualified and paid accordingly).All creeds and all colours.
Not many British, in fact probably less than 2% or 3% of the workforce.
We are all on the same food, and use the same dining facility, queue up together and believe me the place works so much better because of this.
This is the second time I have seen this in the last few years...both foreign run and managed big multinationals....
The only other place I ever witnessed the same sort of set up within the British military was Charlie Camp at Basra COB, which was utterly unique but still worked very well.
What I'm saying is something is basically wrong in the way the British managerial classes are thinking and managing things....other civilised nations do it far, far better.
I presume the same people who called for that young lad to be banned over FOIs now go for you. A PQ like that will stop all work across the relevant parts of the RAF until it is answered. Some poor bugger is going to have to work out of the menu choices from a month a go.
The cause of the 'vexatious' request is firstly the poor phrasing of the original question, which asked what the conditions are (present tense), but mostly the response. The Minister knew d@mn well he should have stated what the situation was at the time of the original outcry, but failed to do so.
If nothing else, there are three fundamental questions which the Minister failed to answer.
1) Were members of our Armed Forces lying with the original accusation?
2) If not, how on Earth did we end up with the situation where personnel are paying for food on operations?
3) What, if anything, has been done to ensure this won't happen again?
Mistakes happen - I had to do a bit of running around Akrotiri during Granby to get my ginger beers fed properly as they were fixing my jet at all hours. This situation looks like it had arisen from policy however, and I would imagine that's why the Minister is trying to dodge the question.
1) Were members of our Armed Forces lying with the original accusation?
2) If not, how on Earth did we end up with the situation where personnel are paying for food on operations?
3) What, if anything, has been done to ensure this won't happen again?
Mistakes happen - I had to do a bit of running around Akrotiri during Granby to get my ginger beers fed properly as they were fixing my jet at all hours. This situation looks like it had arisen from policy however, and I would imagine that's why the Minister is trying to dodge the question.
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This situation looks like it had arisen from policy however, and I would imagine that's why the Minister is trying to dodge the question.
I'm not a fan of politicians, irrelevant of their party, however, Ms Moon has taken the trouble to pursue this further, for that she has my thanks.
Last edited by Surplus; 15th Jan 2015 at 12:55.
