Oops that's bad timing
Thread Starter
Oops that's bad timing
So a couple of days after the personnel bulletin is published with a big article showing why going to NATO tours is a good thing the LOA for Belgium is cut by 33% Germany has been cur as well but by less gotta love the irony!
Yep - gotta love the one sided propaganda on how great life is on an overseas tour.
What is not mentioned is that you will be expected to live in a house far smaller than you would have in the UK because the rental allowance is so small. Your neighbours will work on the tills at Wal-Mart or be receiving unemployment benefit because, that's the kind of neighbourhood you will find yourself living in.
Your kids will be in sh1t state schools and you will just have to accept it because MOD will not pay for anything better. Your wife will almost certainly not have a job and the allowances will not cover loss of earnings. In fact, the allowances will barely cover the extra insurance you will have to pay for the privilege of driving a car at the same insurance rate as an 18 year old.
What else? Plenty but maybe Whenurhappy may wish to add to the downsides of an overseas lifestyle?
What is not mentioned is that you will be expected to live in a house far smaller than you would have in the UK because the rental allowance is so small. Your neighbours will work on the tills at Wal-Mart or be receiving unemployment benefit because, that's the kind of neighbourhood you will find yourself living in.
Your kids will be in sh1t state schools and you will just have to accept it because MOD will not pay for anything better. Your wife will almost certainly not have a job and the allowances will not cover loss of earnings. In fact, the allowances will barely cover the extra insurance you will have to pay for the privilege of driving a car at the same insurance rate as an 18 year old.
What else? Plenty but maybe Whenurhappy may wish to add to the downsides of an overseas lifestyle?
PA
It's a shame that your experience of life overseas wasn't great but it is unfair to suggest it is like that everywhere. I agree there are downsides that can come as a surprise but from where I'm sitting the positives definitely outweight the negatives.
BV
BV
Thread Starter
Bob, I think the main point is you should never be worse off serving your country just because you serve overseas. Just because it may be sunny/perceived to be nicer than the uk is no recompense for the shoddy accommodation/loa/lack of employment for partners etc.
The way things stand the RAF cannot get people to volunteer for overseas tours hence the proganda push, the reduction in LOA seems strange when you consider the lack of volunteers. We have posts here that have been open for over a year with no volunteers, the only way to fill them is the carrot/stick of promotion (which many turn down rather than go overseas!) alas that doesn't work on SACs.
The way things stand the RAF cannot get people to volunteer for overseas tours hence the proganda push, the reduction in LOA seems strange when you consider the lack of volunteers. We have posts here that have been open for over a year with no volunteers, the only way to fill them is the carrot/stick of promotion (which many turn down rather than go overseas!) alas that doesn't work on SACs.
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Hmmm ... LOA in Singapore in the 60s was based on the premise that one had Roast Beef and a bottle of vino on Sunday Lunch.
Stuff that ... we ate chilli crab and prawns and drank Tiger. Happy days!
Stuff that ... we ate chilli crab and prawns and drank Tiger. Happy days!
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We have posts here that have been open for over a year with no volunteers, the only way to fill them is the carrot/stick of promotion (which many turn down rather than go overseas!) alas that doesn't work on SACs.
S-D
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Indeed ... but then it's all MONEY these days. 
No sense of adventure, no acceptance of hardship, just me me me .
Glad I did my 30 years when going overseas was a treat, and something to really enjoy.
No sense of adventure, no acceptance of hardship, just me me me .
Glad I did my 30 years when going overseas was a treat, and something to really enjoy.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
And my SiL has two children in a small international school, my daughter has a paid job as a teaching assistant (in UK it was unpaid). They have a duty free car, BX, NEW house, great access to Europe and he regrets nothing at all.
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Gaps
A little harsh MPN11,
Manning policy is swiss cheese, gaps everywhere, so unfilled posts not exclusively due to people not wishing to deploy. My overseas tour was good and in truth I didn't really want to go but followed deskies orders. Today's RAF is increasingly just a job for countless reasons. Still a Bl##dy good one but people are more selfish now. Not because they are less loyal but for starters because redundancy rounds are every 5 years, pay is flat and career management awful. And that's before NEM. As such those that want a NATO post come from a small demographic.
Manning policy is swiss cheese, gaps everywhere, so unfilled posts not exclusively due to people not wishing to deploy. My overseas tour was good and in truth I didn't really want to go but followed deskies orders. Today's RAF is increasingly just a job for countless reasons. Still a Bl##dy good one but people are more selfish now. Not because they are less loyal but for starters because redundancy rounds are every 5 years, pay is flat and career management awful. And that's before NEM. As such those that want a NATO post come from a small demographic.
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Surely a posting to NATO would take you off the Afghan merry go round... In my day you had to apply for it, and even then struggled to get it, does it still increase your point score towards promotion, I seem to remember serving in RAFG added one point to your annual assessment.
4everAD
If you were to re-read my post you will see that I wasn't denying that what you are saying is true in certain cases. I was merely suggesting this is not the case everywhere.
I am overseas and my house here is considerably larger than my UK equivalent, my wife is allowed to work (she stays at home with our three kids instead though) and the LOA seems sufficient (although I'd happily accept more). The schools are fine as well.
I just don't agree with tarring all overseas jobs with the same brush.
BV
I am overseas and my house here is considerably larger than my UK equivalent, my wife is allowed to work (she stays at home with our three kids instead though) and the LOA seems sufficient (although I'd happily accept more). The schools are fine as well.
I just don't agree with tarring all overseas jobs with the same brush.
BV
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Nutloose,
NATO is no get out of AFG or any OOA. Whilst in NATO you may get a pass noting that many NATO postings involve a det to AFG. In truth you are likely to have just deployed or be top of the list after your tour. I deployed to Iraq during my NATO tour.
In recent years NATO tours have been easy to get and bad for promotion. Manning told the promotion element to an audience of 150 officers 3 years ago, of which I was one. Today there is a very strong push to reverse that.
NATO is no get out of AFG or any OOA. Whilst in NATO you may get a pass noting that many NATO postings involve a det to AFG. In truth you are likely to have just deployed or be top of the list after your tour. I deployed to Iraq during my NATO tour.
In recent years NATO tours have been easy to get and bad for promotion. Manning told the promotion element to an audience of 150 officers 3 years ago, of which I was one. Today there is a very strong push to reverse that.
From what I heard at a conference earlier in the year, NATO tours are going to be coming round more often and in certain areas are now a priority. I believe this stems from Libya when the UK tried to take up key posts in HQs various and were told no, you can't gap them and then swan in when you feel like it for the Ops.
Seems a little disingenuous given the UK contribution to AFG, which many of those nations being critical of the UK conveniently forgot that was the biggest NATO op ever!
However, as a result, if the conference speakers were correct, you will need a NATO tick in future if you are to be seen as competitive on the boards.
Seems a little disingenuous given the UK contribution to AFG, which many of those nations being critical of the UK conveniently forgot that was the biggest NATO op ever!
However, as a result, if the conference speakers were correct, you will need a NATO tick in future if you are to be seen as competitive on the boards.
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Melchett,
Good to see the change of emphasis. I believe for Libya the case was more that when we had to fight down south it was realised the RAF had emptied Pogio. Other areas equally bare in terms of posts and influence. There is an element of closing the stable door to this I venture.
Good to see the change of emphasis. I believe for Libya the case was more that when we had to fight down south it was realised the RAF had emptied Pogio. Other areas equally bare in terms of posts and influence. There is an element of closing the stable door to this I venture.
Referring back to the OP's point, a question if I may as someone who has been told he is in the frame for a staff job Stateside on returning from his current sunny and sandy appointment.
Does anyone know if the LOA cut mentioned by the OP is across all locations or was it Europe specific? What are the general financial considerations of taking a post in the US these days? Is it going to leave me out of pocket if I took it?
Before anyone says google is your friend or speak to the Adminers, my current job is in a slightly less technologically advanced bit of desert - not AFG - and I can't download the JSP for some reason. Plus as a digital appt ie it really is just me on my own here, I don't have any Admin support to bounce questions of. So as ever, I throw myself on the mercy of fellow Pruners to help out where the system can't.
One thing that does worry me about the offer though - I'm not a volunteer and you would have thought there'd be plenty of volunteers for a couple of years in the States. That's the bit that worries me .... why does nobody else want it
Does anyone know if the LOA cut mentioned by the OP is across all locations or was it Europe specific? What are the general financial considerations of taking a post in the US these days? Is it going to leave me out of pocket if I took it?
Before anyone says google is your friend or speak to the Adminers, my current job is in a slightly less technologically advanced bit of desert - not AFG - and I can't download the JSP for some reason. Plus as a digital appt ie it really is just me on my own here, I don't have any Admin support to bounce questions of. So as ever, I throw myself on the mercy of fellow Pruners to help out where the system can't.
One thing that does worry me about the offer though - I'm not a volunteer and you would have thought there'd be plenty of volunteers for a couple of years in the States. That's the bit that worries me .... why does nobody else want it
Melchy
Can't confirm outside Europe, but LOA in France also cut. And without warning too. Just a note on payslip showing a lower rate for 18-31 Oct than for 01-17 Oct.
Regards
Batco
Can't confirm outside Europe, but LOA in France also cut. And without warning too. Just a note on payslip showing a lower rate for 18-31 Oct than for 01-17 Oct.
Regards
Batco
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Melchett,
LOA cut certainly isn't across the board - ours has been slightly adjusted to take into account currency changes recently but otherwise it's been pretty constant.
As far as a lack of volunteers goes, often a lot of people love the idea of loan/exchange posts, but when they (and more importantly the family) do a bit more research they find out that it doesn't work as well for them as they'd hoped.
That said, I agree with BV - we're having a great time and wouldn't swap it for the world. If people go overseas and try to live their UK lifestyle they don't seem to enjoy it, if you embrace the culture and climate that you're going to you'll have fun wherever you go. Some people could be miserable on a tropical island!
LOA cut certainly isn't across the board - ours has been slightly adjusted to take into account currency changes recently but otherwise it's been pretty constant.
As far as a lack of volunteers goes, often a lot of people love the idea of loan/exchange posts, but when they (and more importantly the family) do a bit more research they find out that it doesn't work as well for them as they'd hoped.
That said, I agree with BV - we're having a great time and wouldn't swap it for the world. If people go overseas and try to live their UK lifestyle they don't seem to enjoy it, if you embrace the culture and climate that you're going to you'll have fun wherever you go. Some people could be miserable on a tropical island!
J3
I quite agree. I have to pinch myself every morning as the Eiffel Tower heaves into view as I head towards the 'MOD',or should I say M de la D?
Regards
Batco
I quite agree. I have to pinch myself every morning as the Eiffel Tower heaves into view as I head towards the 'MOD',or should I say M de la D?
Regards
Batco
Overseas postings are not all about the financial rewards. My 3 years abroad taught me another language, that British is not always best, just how sh1t the NHS is, broadened my outlook on life in general and made me a number life-long friends.
I certainly couldn't fathom out why I was getting so much LOA, I just shrugged my shoulders and put it in a savings account. I also flogged the tax-free car some ancient NATO regulation devised in the aftermath of WWII said I was entitled to, to buy the holiday of a lifetime for my family.
Anyone who doesn't want an overseas tour should seriously think about why they joined the Service and perhaps think about a career change.
I certainly couldn't fathom out why I was getting so much LOA, I just shrugged my shoulders and put it in a savings account. I also flogged the tax-free car some ancient NATO regulation devised in the aftermath of WWII said I was entitled to, to buy the holiday of a lifetime for my family.
Anyone who doesn't want an overseas tour should seriously think about why they joined the Service and perhaps think about a career change.