Red Arrows: Inside the Bubble
AlR - spend my life fighting inventory realignment at instigation of SHWMBO. Does not seem to apply to "home beautiful" magazines though............
I have Tony's book, but find it a difficult read with the tiny font - might just be the edition I have, but it is a long book and maybe publisher was trying to save paper. Might have been an easier read with tighter editing and a font a couple of points larger.
I have Tony's book, but find it a difficult read with the tiny font - might just be the edition I have, but it is a long book and maybe publisher was trying to save paper. Might have been an easier read with tighter editing and a font a couple of points larger.
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Ruth Shackleton
I thought it was an absolutely superb program and thoroughly enjoyed it.
I was very lucky to meet, and be in the audience of a talk and presentation given by Ruth Shackleton, the Team Manager in May of this year. She presented to a group of Private and Corporate Cabin Crew/Flight Attendants in Geneva the day before EBACE and it was, quite frankly, one of the best presentations and talks I have ever seen… Absolutely brilliant.
I was very lucky to meet, and be in the audience of a talk and presentation given by Ruth Shackleton, the Team Manager in May of this year. She presented to a group of Private and Corporate Cabin Crew/Flight Attendants in Geneva the day before EBACE and it was, quite frankly, one of the best presentations and talks I have ever seen… Absolutely brilliant.
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Reading back through the comments, I get the feeling that some people seem to think that I was criticising RAFAT. I didn't say that at all. I also get the impression that some people think I'm not in a position to even have a view. I have spent a lot of time with the Red Arrows - I've flown on chase sorties alongside the formations, I've flown back seat in quite a few full displays in lead, wing and rear positions. I've sat through many debriefings, stayed on base in the Mess, interviewed the pilots etc. So I think it fair to say that I have a fairly clear view of what the team is really like. I'm not just conjuring-up a view from nowhere.
I still think that if one takes an objective look at the documentary, it is clear to see how poor it was. Aside from the points I've mentioned before, even the most fundamental points were completely overlooked. Was any attempt made to explain how a display routine is put together and how each pilot holds formation with the others? Nope. Did the programme illustrate just how busy a typical day is for the pilots? Nope. More importantly, did the programme illustrate just how brutal the display flying is for the pilot, and how incredibly difficult it is to maintain such a polished performance that looks so clean and tidy from the ground? Nope. Incredibly, even the famous smoke generators were mentioned but not explained. Showing someone polishing the pipes isn't information, it's just lazy programme-making.
It was contemporary television at its worst. The Reds deserve much better. It's easy to just say "I liked it very much" as if that's some sort of answer. Liking it doesn't mean it was any good. If it didn't inform the viewer then what is the point of it? Look at the incredible effort and attention that is devoted to Attenborough's nature programmes and then look at that awful Red Arrows programme
I still think that if one takes an objective look at the documentary, it is clear to see how poor it was. Aside from the points I've mentioned before, even the most fundamental points were completely overlooked. Was any attempt made to explain how a display routine is put together and how each pilot holds formation with the others? Nope. Did the programme illustrate just how busy a typical day is for the pilots? Nope. More importantly, did the programme illustrate just how brutal the display flying is for the pilot, and how incredibly difficult it is to maintain such a polished performance that looks so clean and tidy from the ground? Nope. Incredibly, even the famous smoke generators were mentioned but not explained. Showing someone polishing the pipes isn't information, it's just lazy programme-making.
It was contemporary television at its worst. The Reds deserve much better. It's easy to just say "I liked it very much" as if that's some sort of answer. Liking it doesn't mean it was any good. If it didn't inform the viewer then what is the point of it? Look at the incredible effort and attention that is devoted to Attenborough's nature programmes and then look at that awful Red Arrows programme
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Can any 'followers' cast any light on post#102 - 'Austin Jones' and 'Fred Gordon'?
BOAC - he explains in the intro that he has no wish to criticise specific individuals and thus changed the names (all of them, I think), selecting pseudonyms from a phone book. There is an apology to those who know the individuals (or, by implication, who think 'I'm sure that isn't my name'), and he concludes 'to those who would have liked to have seen their names in print, I apologize, and refer them respectfully to those who are perhaps glad they did not'.
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Jerry Atrick
His name (which I've deleted in the quote) is on the board at Scampton, but it does not appear as a former Team Leader in the list on the Red Arrows website which is made available for anyone to read. RAF Red Arrows - Roll of honour
So you didn't obtain his views.
"fully explained"?
If you don't understand why he was embarrassed and why he would prefer the matter not to be resurrected then what you describe as your "time-limited research" clearly didn't uncover the full story.
I wonder about your motive for posting the name here - except to obtain free advertising for your 'bookazine'.
The 1969 leader issue is fully explained in the 'bookazine' and the displaced team leader (................) has his spot. There is nothing to hide and his name still graces the team's leader board in the reception area in the hangar at Scampton.
I didn't get to contact him personally
"fully explained"?
If you don't understand why he was embarrassed and why he would prefer the matter not to be resurrected then what you describe as your "time-limited research" clearly didn't uncover the full story.
I wonder about your motive for posting the name here - except to obtain free advertising for your 'bookazine'.
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 31st Jul 2014 at 06:23.
Flying lawyer,
My post was about the fictitious Austin Jones - despite Tony Doyle's book preface, I don't understand why he decided to change names of those that died serving with the team.
I was tasked to produce a history of the Red Arrows within a four-month deadline, and 1969 is an important part of the story. I did speak to guys that flew with the disposed leader and they were generally supportive that he didn't get a fair crack of the whip, and that lessons were learned that shaped future team policy. As he led about 20 displays, he deserves his place in the history books.
There is much on the internet about the subject, so it's not a hidden secret. Anyway, end of subject as far as I am concerned.
My post was about the fictitious Austin Jones - despite Tony Doyle's book preface, I don't understand why he decided to change names of those that died serving with the team.
I was tasked to produce a history of the Red Arrows within a four-month deadline, and 1969 is an important part of the story. I did speak to guys that flew with the disposed leader and they were generally supportive that he didn't get a fair crack of the whip, and that lessons were learned that shaped future team policy. As he led about 20 displays, he deserves his place in the history books.
There is much on the internet about the subject, so it's not a hidden secret. Anyway, end of subject as far as I am concerned.
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As a young airman I was stationed at Watershambles in '65. The RAFAT turned up to rehearse with 111 prior to the Paris Salon. Is my recollection of 111 trying to copy the Red's opposition rolls correct? ISTR they looked pretty spectacular, not to mention dodgy. I think the staish(?) called a halt to them.
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