Allegiance
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Gosh. That was some blue touchpaper.
Sorry if I have offended any sensibilities it was just a question tossed into the ring for a bit of (light?) debate.
One thing that comes across from these remarkably homogeneous replies however, is the failure to differentiate between "politicians" and the Monarch. You assume a huge gulf between the poor old Queen (Gawd Bless 'er etc) as she valiantly carries on working her fingers to the bone in line of duty (and you thought the nurses had it tough) and the assortment of weasel low-life in ****ehall and Westminster.
There is NO difference. That's my point.
The oath is a smokescreen that gives the impression of allegiance to the person of the Monarch, but that same Monarch is but a rubber stamp that will happily sign into law every bit of Lib-Lab-Con insanity that passes across her desk without a moments thought for the consequences.
By making such a solemn act as an Oath Of Allegiance more relevant, for example to a Written Constitution that would protect our freedoms rather than hand them over to the EU or allow a criminal rodent like Blair to take us to war in Iraq on a pack of lies, surely that would be a force for good.
The oath would be sworn to defend that Constitution and prevent examples like the above from happening again. What's wrong with that?
Sorry if I have offended any sensibilities it was just a question tossed into the ring for a bit of (light?) debate.
One thing that comes across from these remarkably homogeneous replies however, is the failure to differentiate between "politicians" and the Monarch. You assume a huge gulf between the poor old Queen (Gawd Bless 'er etc) as she valiantly carries on working her fingers to the bone in line of duty (and you thought the nurses had it tough) and the assortment of weasel low-life in ****ehall and Westminster.
There is NO difference. That's my point.
The oath is a smokescreen that gives the impression of allegiance to the person of the Monarch, but that same Monarch is but a rubber stamp that will happily sign into law every bit of Lib-Lab-Con insanity that passes across her desk without a moments thought for the consequences.
By making such a solemn act as an Oath Of Allegiance more relevant, for example to a Written Constitution that would protect our freedoms rather than hand them over to the EU or allow a criminal rodent like Blair to take us to war in Iraq on a pack of lies, surely that would be a force for good.
The oath would be sworn to defend that Constitution and prevent examples like the above from happening again. What's wrong with that?
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but that same Monarch is but a rubber stamp that will happily sign into law every bit of Lib-Lab-Con insanity that passes across her desk without a moments thought for the consequences.
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To Phil R (if you are still around)
A great many military folk couldn't really give a monkeys. It is a procedure that you go through as part of your job. The individual servicemen and women, know who they work for, why they do it and when they would stop. By and large they do a magnificent and professional job, without overthinking the trivia and inconsequential.
If they discuss this sort of stuff it's probably when they have had one too many in the bar. Generally, if single, they are more interested in where the next shag is coming from. And if married, where the kids will go to school.
Spraffing about this stuff is generally the preserve of anally retentive old timers, such as me, with too much time on their hands.
If you are thinking of joining you can pretty much ignore everything your read on pprune...it does not represent modern military culture one iota.
A great many military folk couldn't really give a monkeys. It is a procedure that you go through as part of your job. The individual servicemen and women, know who they work for, why they do it and when they would stop. By and large they do a magnificent and professional job, without overthinking the trivia and inconsequential.
If they discuss this sort of stuff it's probably when they have had one too many in the bar. Generally, if single, they are more interested in where the next shag is coming from. And if married, where the kids will go to school.
Spraffing about this stuff is generally the preserve of anally retentive old timers, such as me, with too much time on their hands.
If you are thinking of joining you can pretty much ignore everything your read on pprune...it does not represent modern military culture one iota.
Phil,
I probably fall in to the same category as TOFO, and am equally well divorced from my days as a serving airman. What I would say is that he makes a point, as a singly, my time off to see the girlfriend, and afterwards raising the kids certainly made demands on my thoughts. But, when sent to the Gulf, I went, when sent to Bosnia, I went. I went to Kigale, straight from my daughters 18th Birthday party, with no qualms. Perhaps some have conflicts about allegiance, loyalty etc. I had none, I'd signed a contract that said, you do what we tell you to do, and we will pay you enough to afford a decent life for your wife and kids. I have been fortunate to meet our monarch twice during my career, both times bringing home to me the seriousness of the oath of allegiance we all took. I'm just an honest bloke from north of Brum, and if I say I will do something, I like to stay true to that. 30 years of service made me a better person than the one that joined in 1969, it allowed me to give my wife and children a good life, and despite my age, if anything "kicked off" again, I would definitely offer whatever service I can. I hope that helps with your interest in Allegiance. I would say that it's probably us "old geezers" who still allude to it.
Smudge
I probably fall in to the same category as TOFO, and am equally well divorced from my days as a serving airman. What I would say is that he makes a point, as a singly, my time off to see the girlfriend, and afterwards raising the kids certainly made demands on my thoughts. But, when sent to the Gulf, I went, when sent to Bosnia, I went. I went to Kigale, straight from my daughters 18th Birthday party, with no qualms. Perhaps some have conflicts about allegiance, loyalty etc. I had none, I'd signed a contract that said, you do what we tell you to do, and we will pay you enough to afford a decent life for your wife and kids. I have been fortunate to meet our monarch twice during my career, both times bringing home to me the seriousness of the oath of allegiance we all took. I'm just an honest bloke from north of Brum, and if I say I will do something, I like to stay true to that. 30 years of service made me a better person than the one that joined in 1969, it allowed me to give my wife and children a good life, and despite my age, if anything "kicked off" again, I would definitely offer whatever service I can. I hope that helps with your interest in Allegiance. I would say that it's probably us "old geezers" who still allude to it.
Smudge
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TBH it's nicer to think you are working for the dear lady in Buck House rather than the shysters in Downing Street
But it's all the same in the end as it's the shysters who give the orders and pay the bills
But it's all the same in the end as it's the shysters who give the orders and pay the bills
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I gave no consideration to whom I swore allegiance when I joined the RAF. I guess I would have sworn it to anyone if it meant I got in and trained as a pilot - obviously there are some who would not be included in that list. You must remember that when I joined the National Anthem was played at the end of the night in a cinema and most would stand still for that so it was natural to swear allegiance to the Queen on joining the services.
Having said all that as an older chap I am happy that it was to HM. Really your allegiance then, as now was to your colleagues, and probably senior officers if the truth be told.
ACW.
Having said all that as an older chap I am happy that it was to HM. Really your allegiance then, as now was to your colleagues, and probably senior officers if the truth be told.
ACW.
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HMQ "embodies" the UK for the purpose of swearing allegiance
Legally this is slightly different from Elizabeth Windsor the person
Charles I, the person, was executed pretty much for making war on Charles I the embodiment of the State..............
(I Know, I know.....
)
Legally this is slightly different from Elizabeth Windsor the person
Charles I, the person, was executed pretty much for making war on Charles I the embodiment of the State..............
(I Know, I know.....
)
The latest estimate of the cost of the royal family is £35m. Some republican bunch has come along and said it's more like £300m (but I haven't seen either set of figures in detail)
The republican bloke came out with usual guff - would pay for umpty ump nurses or teachers etc (have you noticed, its always nurses or teachers, never Typhoons or warships?) Someone came back with the fact that even the higher figure is only half the cost of Channel 4's Welsh service (do we all have to pay for that?)
Anyway whether it's 50p a year or £5 a year a head, I'm quite happy to chip in. And while we're at it, I wonder what the annual budget for POTUS is? Somewhat more, I'm guessing!
The republican bloke came out with usual guff - would pay for umpty ump nurses or teachers etc (have you noticed, its always nurses or teachers, never Typhoons or warships?) Someone came back with the fact that even the higher figure is only half the cost of Channel 4's Welsh service (do we all have to pay for that?)
Anyway whether it's 50p a year or £5 a year a head, I'm quite happy to chip in. And while we're at it, I wonder what the annual budget for POTUS is? Somewhat more, I'm guessing!
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Looking back to 1952 (not that I was there)
The 16th Entry of Boy Entrants, on May 22nd 1952, was the 1st entry to take the oath after the death of HM George VI.
The cards that we read the oath from, had hand written amendments changing His to Her, etc.
We were also the entry selected to do route lining at the Coronation in 53. One of my biggest regrets is that I was one of the select, then I caught flu and went into SSQ at Yatesbury, when I came out everyone had gone to Cardington and I missed the event.
Yes we served Queen and Country. But 62 years ago, we never called her Auntie Betty.
