Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
Pic of the tanker's dirty bottom, showing some of the modifications.
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Tech question chaps ...
I assume the strakes aft of the Hose Orifice are designed to control airflow ... but are they more to do with creating a relatively stable airflow as the hose deploys or for some other reason ? I would have thought that the Drogue Chute would have provided the required hose stability ?
I assume the strakes aft of the Hose Orifice are designed to control airflow ... but are they more to do with creating a relatively stable airflow as the hose deploys or for some other reason ? I would have thought that the Drogue Chute would have provided the required hose stability ?
Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 22nd Jul 2014 at 18:47.
Now that's a good question Coff, and I'm sure someone will have the complete answer. I always understood, as a mere tecky, that there was a structural element to the "strakes" as the hose orifice and pressurisation loads needed to be accounted for. No doubt someone will see them as merely aerodynamic protuberances, but a bit agricultural IMHOP.
Smudge
Smudge
Coff,
I am sure someone far more knowledgeable than myself will be along soon.
It is not generally known that the hose was deployed by the use of the airflow around the rear of the a/c. I always understood the strakes were fitted to facilitate this. Once the paxolin doors had been opened (to allow the hose to traverse on the carriage) the small airflow shutter deployed and the hose brake released then the hose was free to extend. Sometimes when it was reluctant to do so the ALM would swing on the HDU frame and encourage it by 'pedalling' ! The hose would then be primed with fuel and it would adopt the stable refuelling position. All this while the HDU is attempting to pull the hose back in. This kept the hose rigid in the airflow. Should a customer spike the basket and panic thus removing the basket then the hose would rewind at high speed back onto the drum. Cue the rapid evacuation by the ALM to cower between the tanks .
I am sure someone far more knowledgeable than myself will be along soon.
It is not generally known that the hose was deployed by the use of the airflow around the rear of the a/c. I always understood the strakes were fitted to facilitate this. Once the paxolin doors had been opened (to allow the hose to traverse on the carriage) the small airflow shutter deployed and the hose brake released then the hose was free to extend. Sometimes when it was reluctant to do so the ALM would swing on the HDU frame and encourage it by 'pedalling' ! The hose would then be primed with fuel and it would adopt the stable refuelling position. All this while the HDU is attempting to pull the hose back in. This kept the hose rigid in the airflow. Should a customer spike the basket and panic thus removing the basket then the hose would rewind at high speed back onto the drum. Cue the rapid evacuation by the ALM to cower between the tanks .
Pic of the hose in the stable position. You can clearly see how the fuel was transferred from the probe across the top of the a/c into the main refuelling gallery. Again not the neatest installation but it worked well.
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Strakes
I must admit AA62 I had not previously noticed the strakes. I had cause to visit Marshall when they were developing the fit. I remember the tanks and the plumbing. And yes Smudge it was quite agricultural but when you consider how rapidly it was done I am sure this is not a criticism. I helped design a bit of kit that sat in front of the tanks just aft of FS245. Ordinarily we would have loaded it through the ramp but with the HDU this was not an option, so the kit had to go up the steps through the front door in a couple of bits. We first made a Triwall cardboard space model before cutting metal. The same kit also went on the Mk2 Nimrod.
When we put the probe on the R it had to be balanced out to restore lateral stability and weathercock effects by extending the bump stop into a strake this was done with wood and EEDEX angle to begin with. We had previous experience of this problem when the 3 antennas above the cockpit were added. these were balanced by adding dummy aerials above and below the tailplane. Over the years these got bigger in area to improve stability.
I would suggest this was one of the reasons for the stakes along with stiffening the structure having added the heavy HDU and its support frame. This too was very agricultural. Nothing wrong with that in the circumstances.
If you want to talk agricultural, the box on the back of the Vulcan fits that category. I think Coff put a picture of this up a few months back.
Interesting times! could we do it again? I think we could if the chips were down. I might even be persuaded to come out of retirement.
When we put the probe on the R it had to be balanced out to restore lateral stability and weathercock effects by extending the bump stop into a strake this was done with wood and EEDEX angle to begin with. We had previous experience of this problem when the 3 antennas above the cockpit were added. these were balanced by adding dummy aerials above and below the tailplane. Over the years these got bigger in area to improve stability.
I would suggest this was one of the reasons for the stakes along with stiffening the structure having added the heavy HDU and its support frame. This too was very agricultural. Nothing wrong with that in the circumstances.
If you want to talk agricultural, the box on the back of the Vulcan fits that category. I think Coff put a picture of this up a few months back.
Interesting times! could we do it again? I think we could if the chips were down. I might even be persuaded to come out of retirement.
AA62,
How about anyone who has memories of incidents where the aircraft showed its ability to withstand adversity. I have in my mind a story from way back of Albert arriving in Gander with a couple of tons of ice on the nose, I believe due to heating failure. I'm sure I saw it in Air Clues, but I'm just guessing. Someone must know, and someone must have other such stories to expand on. This is becoming part of my daily "must do's" now blokes, don't hold back.
Smudge
PS dragartist,
No insult intended on the "agricultural" front. I was brought up working on a farm, and recognise it when I see it. I've seen the posts re the Vulcan HDU fit, I suppose the Harpoon ? Mod for the Falklands could also meet the same description. There's nothing wrong with belt and braces agricultural mate.
Smudge
How about anyone who has memories of incidents where the aircraft showed its ability to withstand adversity. I have in my mind a story from way back of Albert arriving in Gander with a couple of tons of ice on the nose, I believe due to heating failure. I'm sure I saw it in Air Clues, but I'm just guessing. Someone must know, and someone must have other such stories to expand on. This is becoming part of my daily "must do's" now blokes, don't hold back.
Smudge
PS dragartist,
No insult intended on the "agricultural" front. I was brought up working on a farm, and recognise it when I see it. I've seen the posts re the Vulcan HDU fit, I suppose the Harpoon ? Mod for the Falklands could also meet the same description. There's nothing wrong with belt and braces agricultural mate.
Smudge
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Many thanks Drag old chap ... I had a feeling you had a hand in matters
I'm intrigued by DD's teasing reference to the Nimrod
Smudge ... Don't be shy ... You have a natural gift for story telling
Best ...
Coff.
I'm intrigued by DD's teasing reference to the Nimrod
Smudge ... Don't be shy ... You have a natural gift for story telling
Best ...
Coff.
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AA62 , thank you for bringing back so many happy memories of my time at Lyneham. Have so many similar pics of AAR,and times in Ethiopia, El Centro et al. Boxes of black and white pics taken of a rather eventful 4 months in Stanley 1985. What a fantastic thread, so refreshing to reminisce over good times instead of the normal whining on here.
Of course, many Air Forces have operated the C130 over the years, but I would contend that few had the characters that the Royal Air Force "entrusted" with the operation of the worlds favourite military transport. I will kick off with a man, who I have no doubt will raise a happy smile on many faces, as always recognising the "no names no pack drill" routine.
I heard of a Captain, named H***** J******, we will just call him HJ, who went on a Caribbean trainer. As a native of the area, he was quite happy to let the Co fly the approach to Kingston, and operate the radios. So, all the way down the descent, over to local for the landing, he is dishing out the "Jive talk" and as they request clearance for landing the approach controller called and said "Ascot ****, you are cleared to land, after landing the pilot is to report to the Control tower, and by god you better be black"!!!!! Now that bloke was a real character, I was fortunate enough to be his GE a couple of times. Again, the people made the fleet, as I'm sure is true of many of the services differing fleet types. What about the two "one eyed" pilots ? Did they ever fly together ? From an ex lineys point of view, anyone remember "Rocket Ron" from A Line? Come on lads, let's hear it.
Ksimboy, please keep my mother out of this
Smudge
I heard of a Captain, named H***** J******, we will just call him HJ, who went on a Caribbean trainer. As a native of the area, he was quite happy to let the Co fly the approach to Kingston, and operate the radios. So, all the way down the descent, over to local for the landing, he is dishing out the "Jive talk" and as they request clearance for landing the approach controller called and said "Ascot ****, you are cleared to land, after landing the pilot is to report to the Control tower, and by god you better be black"!!!!! Now that bloke was a real character, I was fortunate enough to be his GE a couple of times. Again, the people made the fleet, as I'm sure is true of many of the services differing fleet types. What about the two "one eyed" pilots ? Did they ever fly together ? From an ex lineys point of view, anyone remember "Rocket Ron" from A Line? Come on lads, let's hear it.
Ksimboy, please keep my mother out of this
Smudge
Last edited by smujsmith; 23rd Jul 2014 at 21:14.
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Smudge, that's our secret lol. So many happy memories of wonderful times globally. Will never cease to amaze me just how fast a sniffer dog can run when released from its kennel at Dili, 3 days it took it to come back , then led its handler to several caches of bang!!
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AA62,
How about anyone who has memories of incidents where the aircraft showed its ability to withstand adversity. I have in my mind a story from way back of Albert arriving in Gander with a couple of tons of ice on the nose, I believe due to heating failure. I'm sure I saw it in Air Clues, but I'm just guessing.
Smudge
How about anyone who has memories of incidents where the aircraft showed its ability to withstand adversity. I have in my mind a story from way back of Albert arriving in Gander with a couple of tons of ice on the nose, I believe due to heating failure. I'm sure I saw it in Air Clues, but I'm just guessing.
Smudge
You are quite right that was at Gander and the 'photo of Albert's nose covered in thick ice (taken a couple of hours post landing mind!) did appear in Air Clues.
It was another 30 Sqn crew - the Captain was Uncle Fester but I forget who the Co was. Apparently they realised something was wrong when the Co had all 4 throttles fire-walled to try and kill the rate of descent on the IMC approach. Indeed, all 4 engines were seriously over-torqued and the aircraft was still descending!
I remember seeing the aftermath, there must have been tons of clear ice accreted on the airframe. I'm not sure they'd had a radome de-icing failure so much as that it had been overwhelmed by the sheer rapidity of the ice build up.
We'd landed some 15 or 20 minutes before off a back beam ILS to R/W 31 and had had warnings of possible icing from ATC but had picked up nothing more than a bit of hoar frost.
Scary stuff!
dragartist,
the strakes are on the cargo door and the HDU was on the ramp. This is not to say they were not a strengthening item as well but the their position ref the basket always led me to believe they were primarily aerodynamic.
As I understand the Nimrod refuelling hose came inside the a/c a very short distance from the external probe. Not something the crews were wildly enthusiastic about I think.
the strakes are on the cargo door and the HDU was on the ramp. This is not to say they were not a strengthening item as well but the their position ref the basket always led me to believe they were primarily aerodynamic.
As I understand the Nimrod refuelling hose came inside the a/c a very short distance from the external probe. Not something the crews were wildly enthusiastic about I think.
I remember talking to Ray after the trip. He said his biggest problem was convincing ATFOC of the facts.
In the very early days of the 'K' we were transiting across northern Canada in the winter. We experienced all four engines surging and all four fuel pressure warning lights on. The a/c knew the solution and took us down to 'warmer' climes. The water in the fuel was freezing and blocking the filters, hence very little go juice was getting through to the engines. Eventually normal service was resumed and we continued albeit lower than before. This was pre FSII days of course, another 'bean counter' saga.
In the very early days of the 'K' we were transiting across northern Canada in the winter. We experienced all four engines surging and all four fuel pressure warning lights on. The a/c knew the solution and took us down to 'warmer' climes. The water in the fuel was freezing and blocking the filters, hence very little go juice was getting through to the engines. Eventually normal service was resumed and we continued albeit lower than before. This was pre FSII days of course, another 'bean counter' saga.