what happened to camouflage ?
"Do Teddy Taliban's RPG's only work if the plane is the right way up, SASless?"
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IF they don't use it that is a good thing. Lots of other groups have successfully used RPG's to bring down helicopters for several decades.
I remember watching a film showing a Viet cong instructor showing students how to 'aim off' in order to hit Huey's when taking off or landing.
The Blackhawk crews in Somalia may have also differed on the effectiveness of the RPG7 in anti helicopter ops.
I remember watching a film showing a Viet cong instructor showing students how to 'aim off' in order to hit Huey's when taking off or landing.
The Blackhawk crews in Somalia may have also differed on the effectiveness of the RPG7 in anti helicopter ops.
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Haraka,
Didn't that get updated post-Marion?
Ronald Reagan is usually now cited as being responsible singled-handed for winning every war of the 20th century.
Not at all , we concede John Wayne won WW2, didn't he?
Ronald Reagan is usually now cited as being responsible singled-handed for winning every war of the 20th century.
RPG can be an effective weapon against a helo in the hover, at an LG for instance.
Along as it is under 1 km, may have a chance. Several helos were lost to RPGs in Iraq and Afgh.
Along as it is under 1 km, may have a chance. Several helos were lost to RPGs in Iraq and Afgh.
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What happened to camouflage on the ground?
The routine availability of infrared imaging.
How good are the Afghans with RPGs?
Better than anyone else, given nearly 35 years of practice.
The routine availability of infrared imaging.
How good are the Afghans with RPGs?
Better than anyone else, given nearly 35 years of practice.
The Taliban don't use RPGs to target aircraft,
My Unit lost a Chinook to an RPG hit as it was lifting off with a downed Huey Cobra....I shall start the clock there as I know first hand that it happened.
Google "Tammy Duckworth"....that was a Black Hawk in Iraq.
Then google "Lone Survivor" by Marcus Luttrell....that happened in Afghanistan.
RPG's are very effective against Helicopters.
Read up on how modern day RPG's work with advanced fusing capabilities to achieve an Air Burst.
Then perhaps you will understand a bit more about how very effective the modern RPG can be. We just wish we had something as good as the RPG the Oppo's use against us.
The one thing I could never understand was the change from dark sea grey on FAA aircraft, which was applied for operations in the North Atlantic -and which would have been their main operating area had the Cold war heated up- to medium sea grey during the mid-late 1980s. I believe that the darker painted SHARs in the South Atlantic were considered to have a much more effective paint scheme than the lighter coloured aircraft despatched later, which wasw why after the war dark sea grey was applied to SHARS, Sea Kings, Lynxes, Wasps and even Hunters. The same lighter colours were also applied to the Buccaneer in the late 1980s, which again wouldn't seem to be an effective camouflage for on the deck ops over the North Sea.
What I also find interesting is why, with a transition to predominantly medium level operations, a return to PRU or azure blue has not been considered for tactical aircraft. At low level it would not have made them more conspicuous than the existing light grey?
I admit that as a modeller the idea of a Tornado in overall PRU blue is a very attractive one.
Mind, I always thought Fifty Shades of Grey was a paint chart for modern military aircraft and was convinced it was in the wrong section at the bookshop until I peeped inside.
What I also find interesting is why, with a transition to predominantly medium level operations, a return to PRU or azure blue has not been considered for tactical aircraft. At low level it would not have made them more conspicuous than the existing light grey?
I admit that as a modeller the idea of a Tornado in overall PRU blue is a very attractive one.
Mind, I always thought Fifty Shades of Grey was a paint chart for modern military aircraft and was convinced it was in the wrong section at the bookshop until I peeped inside.
Last edited by Martin the Martian; 15th Mar 2014 at 22:31. Reason: Additional text
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It always amused me that they paint huge aircraft hangars an olive green colour. I also remember seeing faded disruptive paint on the outside wall of a building at Coningsby ( JR mess perhaps)? But how could anyone fail to spot such a large green box?
The Swiss have a neat idea with putting aircraft in subterranean caverns.
The Swiss have a neat idea with putting aircraft in subterranean caverns.
Regarding the replies on RPG versus helicopters (particularly slow moving or in the hover), I wasn't discussing that at all. The question was about an RPG versus an A10. When I referred to aircraft I meant fixed wing, in hindsight maybe I could have been clearer.
Typerated,
South African Air Force use of false canopy
Cheetah
Note top surface diamond shaped camo is also reflected on the underside.
http://i.stack.imgur.com/XBnCg.jpg
Topside
Photos: Atlas Cheetah C Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
Gripen
Photos: Saab JAS-39D Gripen Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
South African Air Force use of false canopy
Cheetah
Note top surface diamond shaped camo is also reflected on the underside.
http://i.stack.imgur.com/XBnCg.jpg
Topside
Photos: Atlas Cheetah C Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
Gripen
Photos: Saab JAS-39D Gripen Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
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Gr4tech, that boat is small fry, they camouflaged the whole of the Lockheed factory in the USA to make it look like a housing estate during the war, lots of pictures here.
Lockheed Factory USA Camouflage
Hangars
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...!!!-(-)-Forums
Lockheed Factory USA Camouflage
Hangars
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...!!!-(-)-Forums
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They also trialled dazzle paint on the P51 that was used on ships, see
Dazzle camouflage - Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History
Dazzle camouflage - Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History
The Taliban don't use RPGs to target aircraft, the weapon isn't suited for that, it's an anti-armour / anti-vehicle weapon. It's comparable to trying to use a 9mm handgun to bring down a bird of prey at a few hundred feet. Just a waste of ammunition.
I can assure you the above statement is complete pump, from repeated personal experience, as can most of the Chinook Force.
I suggest you stick to keeping the EFI safe, and leave the Talibans TTP's to those who make it past the perimeter fence.
I can assure you the above statement is complete pump, from repeated personal experience, as can most of the Chinook Force.
I suggest you stick to keeping the EFI safe, and leave the Talibans TTP's to those who make it past the perimeter fence.
The Hemp colour was not designed to camouflage our large aircraft from attacking enemy bombers.
It was a measure designed to make our aircraft harder to detect on Soviet Medium resolution reconnaissance satellites – which it did.
It forced ‘Old Joe Vodka’ to launch more of his High Resolution Satellites to do the same job.
And in doing so was another step to them becoming bankrupt – which is what ended the Cold War.
It was a measure designed to make our aircraft harder to detect on Soviet Medium resolution reconnaissance satellites – which it did.
It forced ‘Old Joe Vodka’ to launch more of his High Resolution Satellites to do the same job.
And in doing so was another step to them becoming bankrupt – which is what ended the Cold War.
Re the original post, the RAF C130 fleet is heading back to green again (slowly) but the reason the paint schemes have changed is that the threats have changed - with most NATO mud moving aircraft zipping about at low levels during the 'Cold War', the A2A threat from above meant that a 'land' scheme was more effective for attack aircraft (witness the green adopted by the Harrier II fleet originally)*.
With that diminished, or non-existent, the need was for a scheme less visible from the ground or in a higher level A2A. A USMC mate tells of seeing the first of their grey AV-8Bs taking off alongside one of their 'RAF-style' camouflaged ones. The 'dark' one was vsisble for some time after take off, where as the grey (or gray) one disappeared into the murk fairly quickly.
*The need for manouvering low level aircraft to have an overall scheme was well illustrated in san carlos, when Argentine aircraft banked away and revealed their light undersides against the dark surrounding hills.
I can assure you the above statement is complete pump, from repeated personal experience, as can most of the Chinook Force.
P.S. Minimouselaundromat or whatever, did you bother to read # 51 before letting rip from the hip?
Last edited by Haraka; 17th Mar 2014 at 16:35.
Not very related to cammo, but aircraft painting.
A guy I know was in charge of one of two Sea Kings, which were tasked from the mainland to the Malvinas (Falklands for English speakers), to perform a MEDEVAC (it happened on May 1982).
The Sea Kings were painted on USN light gray, unsuitable for night ops. So they decided to paint both A/C with dark blue. Unfourtunely, the paint and time only covered ONE helo.
So departed one dark blue, other light gray. He kept thinking: great, the Brits are going to aim at the gray blue, own forces are likely to aim at the darker one. In any case, they avoided ALL forces until announced (several several times) they were near to land.
They returned safely, also.
A guy I know was in charge of one of two Sea Kings, which were tasked from the mainland to the Malvinas (Falklands for English speakers), to perform a MEDEVAC (it happened on May 1982).
The Sea Kings were painted on USN light gray, unsuitable for night ops. So they decided to paint both A/C with dark blue. Unfourtunely, the paint and time only covered ONE helo.
So departed one dark blue, other light gray. He kept thinking: great, the Brits are going to aim at the gray blue, own forces are likely to aim at the darker one. In any case, they avoided ALL forces until announced (several several times) they were near to land.
They returned safely, also.
Cammo and aircraft painting.
Surely the best known of all of the "modern" camouflage schemes must be Nimrod XV246: The Brown Bomber or The Flying Mars Bar as it was variously known.
I did hear of a trial in RAFG which was a mix of aircraft with a variety of paint schemes. Canberra in green,VC10 in grey and Nimrod in hemp;there may have been more.They were parked on a hardstanding and were snapped by airborne cameras. The one which stood out was the hemp Nimrod. Did this then bring on the grey/blue colouring?
Surely the best known of all of the "modern" camouflage schemes must be Nimrod XV246: The Brown Bomber or The Flying Mars Bar as it was variously known.
I did hear of a trial in RAFG which was a mix of aircraft with a variety of paint schemes. Canberra in green,VC10 in grey and Nimrod in hemp;there may have been more.They were parked on a hardstanding and were snapped by airborne cameras. The one which stood out was the hemp Nimrod. Did this then bring on the grey/blue colouring?
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Tarmac or concrete hard standing? Just asking, I assure you 