Lancaster found.
Thread Starter
Lancaster found.
Dunno if this got any play on your side of the pond. Nice story.
Lancaster bomber found 70 years later in German forest after it was shot down | UK | News | Daily Express
Lancaster bomber found 70 years later in German forest after it was shot down | UK | News | Daily Express
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Pleased for the families.
Now can we have our bits of Lancaster back, please? BBMF might be able to use them
Danke schöen.
Now can we have our bits of Lancaster back, please? BBMF might be able to use them
Danke schöen.
An interesting story , but some confused reporting here, especially the bit about Sergeant Phillip's sister being told of the fate of her brother and the fact the the Germans had buried him with full military honours. These facts would surely have been known to her as Commonwealth War Graves have the record of his grave in Berlin War Cemetery where he is buried with other members of the crew. This cemetery contains the graves of many RAF aircrew who lost their lives in bomber raids on Germany. Here's the link CWGC - Casualty Details
It's quite possible that the remains of a Lancaster could have remained undiscovered in dense woodland for so long, but there was never any mystery about the fate of the crew.
It's quite possible that the remains of a Lancaster could have remained undiscovered in dense woodland for so long, but there was never any mystery about the fate of the crew.
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Tanker
Thanks for that. I was wondering that exact thing myself.
Anyway, nice to see they were buried with full military honours.
Thanks for that. I was wondering that exact thing myself.
Anyway, nice to see they were buried with full military honours.
Tankertrashnav, whilst you are correct regarding the information held by the CWGC,it may be that the sister never knew about it. My own family never knew my Great Uncle had a grave,( CWGC told me of his burial site in 1988) as my Great Grand Father as immediate next of kin , had the painful duty both immediately after his death and post war of dealing with all matters regarding his death. He never communicated anything to any family members regarding his grave. My Great Uncle is the only one of his 7 crew members with no personal inscription on his headstone. The reason being ,his father decided he did not want one and something which the CWGC ,despite my attempts, will not change to this day. `The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there.`
Last edited by rolling20; 23rd Nov 2013 at 19:07.
Stretching the thread a bit but earlier this year we visited my wife's great uncle's grave at the CWGC Lancashire Landings cemetery on the Gallipoli peninsular. He too had no personal inscription on his headstone. Same answer from the CWGC, 'his relatives probably did not want an inscription.' Interestingly the headstones are laid down sloping out there because of the danger of earthquakes disturbing more vertical memorials.
1066
1066
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Now that my son is of an age, it never ceases to amaze me the fortitude of those times - when parents could wave goodbye to their little boys to fight on the other side of the world, with the very real possibility that they'd never see them again. We have a couple of Canadians in our local cemetry - when my mother went on holiday, she brought back some Canuk soil for them.
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According to WR Chorley in Bomber Command Losses 1943
ED328 SR+S took off from Ludford Magna at 2027 for op to Berlin
Crashed at Lanke . 6km W of Biesenthal, where funerals were held on 27 August. Since 1945, their remains have been removed to Berlin 1939-1945 War Cemetery. Their average age was 23.
FS RC Naffin RAAF
Sgt DM Ellis
FS NJ Bullen RAAF
FS DJ Tresidder RAAF
Sgt JA Currey
SGT JH Phillips
FS EJ Phillips RAAF
Crashed at Lanke . 6km W of Biesenthal, where funerals were held on 27 August. Since 1945, their remains have been removed to Berlin 1939-1945 War Cemetery. Their average age was 23.
FS RC Naffin RAAF
Sgt DM Ellis
FS NJ Bullen RAAF
FS DJ Tresidder RAAF
Sgt JA Currey
SGT JH Phillips
FS EJ Phillips RAAF
rolling 20 - indeed you may well be right, especially as Sgt Phillips' sister would only have been a girl of eleven at the time of his death. Families did tend to be more reticent about these matters, as your own experience bears out.
Tankertrashnav, you are right about reticence. The subject was never discussed. I have friends who also lost relatives in the service of Bomber Command and they too found a reticence to discuss it.
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I took my own father back to his crash site in 3rd Oct 2003 on the aniv of his his shooting down on 3rd Oct 1943 SW of Kassel. The German investigators who I contacted on the net were brilliant. They met us and took us to the field where his plane has crashed and indeed Halifax S-Sugar of 428Sq was still coming out of the ground, and we found bits with a metal detector. Also they introduced my father to a German gentleman (then a young boy) who on the night of the crash held my fathers hand and stopped him walking back into the burning a/c, as he had come down with the plane having been trapped in his turret, and was suffering temp blindness. He was lucky that the tail section broke free of the main airframe but unfortunately the pilot and another member of crew died in the impact. They insisted my father took other parts they had found earlier home with us so he has the compass gimbal, and engine builders plate, and some exploded cartridges.
Only problem we had was that we only had carry on luggage on the trip and X-Ray showed up these items with resultant search. German security where great commenting that the British had learned about recycling, and joking with my Dad about flying on the aniv of being shot down and waved us through. BA security where unfortunately not so forgiving and wanted to confiscate his relics, and it was only after I asked for the station manager to be called that we were reluctantly allowed through with the items. At the time I was Gold card flyer with them otherwise I do not think S - Sugar,s bits would have got home.
I would just like to say that if anyone is interested in the crash sites of relations a/c in Germany there is a net work of individuals who actively look for these sites and in my experience are really great and caring people. The only hope I had at the time was that if the roles were reversed, and a German family came to the UK to look for say a JU 88 crash site they would receive the same treatment, I sadly do not think that would be the case.
Regards
Mr Mac
Only problem we had was that we only had carry on luggage on the trip and X-Ray showed up these items with resultant search. German security where great commenting that the British had learned about recycling, and joking with my Dad about flying on the aniv of being shot down and waved us through. BA security where unfortunately not so forgiving and wanted to confiscate his relics, and it was only after I asked for the station manager to be called that we were reluctantly allowed through with the items. At the time I was Gold card flyer with them otherwise I do not think S - Sugar,s bits would have got home.
I would just like to say that if anyone is interested in the crash sites of relations a/c in Germany there is a net work of individuals who actively look for these sites and in my experience are really great and caring people. The only hope I had at the time was that if the roles were reversed, and a German family came to the UK to look for say a JU 88 crash site they would receive the same treatment, I sadly do not think that would be the case.
Regards
Mr Mac
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101 Sqn
This was one of 2 Lancs lost from that Sqn on the raid. The other EE192, was lost without trace.
In all 727 aircraft made up of 335 Lancasters, 251 Halifaxes, 124 Stirlings and 17 Mosquitoes were sent to bomb Berlin. Of those, 23 Halifaxes, 17 Lancasters and 16 Stirlings were lost or 7.9% of the raid. This was the heaviest loss of aircraft in 1 night so far in the war
Details from The Bomber Command War Diaries by Middlebrook and Everitt
This was one of 2 Lancs lost from that Sqn on the raid. The other EE192, was lost without trace.
In all 727 aircraft made up of 335 Lancasters, 251 Halifaxes, 124 Stirlings and 17 Mosquitoes were sent to bomb Berlin. Of those, 23 Halifaxes, 17 Lancasters and 16 Stirlings were lost or 7.9% of the raid. This was the heaviest loss of aircraft in 1 night so far in the war
Details from The Bomber Command War Diaries by Middlebrook and Everitt
Mr Mac, thank you for sharing your story. I would be interested in contacting locals who could assist with crash sites. I was in touch with one German local a few years ago, but have lost touch. He kindly sent me the radar tracks of my Great Uncles aircraft from when it entered German airspace until it's ultimate demise. How and where he got the tracks from, I never found out. It was however a fascinating piece of information.
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ED328 SR-S
Hi All
I saw your comments and felt I had to reply.
I am the nephew of Sgt John Phillips, I was involved in the research in the crash. We were aware that the bodies had been buried in the 1939 - 1945 war cemetery in Berlin but that was about it. My mother was 11 at the time and my Grandparents were devastated and did not speak about it, thus she new very little about what had happened. The crew was made up of 3 British and 4 Australian, the oldest was 32 the youngest my Uncle at 19, he volunteered because his friends had signed up and he was in a reserved occupation as an Apprentice in engineering he walked 15 miles to do so.
After 2 years of research we managed to get from the Australian Air Force a copy of the crash report done after the war, this turns out to be not very accurate and did not help the guys from the LAO based at Finowfurt Aviation Museum to find anything. The coordinates were incorrect and it states they were buried in a church yard in Biesenthal when in fact they were buried in a small graveyard in Rudnitz which is about 20 miles away. The crash site was close to Lobetal which is the next village to Lanke. The find was only possible thanks to a chance meeting with Dr Hans Richter who was 14 at the time and witnessed the air battle, the break up of the plane and the crash. His father was involved in putting out the fire and removing the bodies from the plane, 6 of the 7 were badly burned, the 7th the tail gunner had crawled from the tail which had broken away from the rest of the plane and landed about 1/2km from the main plane before dying of his injuries, they were laid all out in the village hall before burial with full military honours with a rifle volley from the Luftwaffe based at Finowfurt.
It has been an emotional time for my family and now the families of some of the other crew who again new nothing about the events of that night. This investigation was done because I wanted to know more about what happened, the details were vague and it took the memories of an amazing man and a dedicated bunch of volunteers to find the site and make a permanent exhibition to this brave men who averaged 23 years of age. We are trying to trace the other families of the crew at the moment 4 from the 7 are in contact
Thanks
I saw your comments and felt I had to reply.
I am the nephew of Sgt John Phillips, I was involved in the research in the crash. We were aware that the bodies had been buried in the 1939 - 1945 war cemetery in Berlin but that was about it. My mother was 11 at the time and my Grandparents were devastated and did not speak about it, thus she new very little about what had happened. The crew was made up of 3 British and 4 Australian, the oldest was 32 the youngest my Uncle at 19, he volunteered because his friends had signed up and he was in a reserved occupation as an Apprentice in engineering he walked 15 miles to do so.
After 2 years of research we managed to get from the Australian Air Force a copy of the crash report done after the war, this turns out to be not very accurate and did not help the guys from the LAO based at Finowfurt Aviation Museum to find anything. The coordinates were incorrect and it states they were buried in a church yard in Biesenthal when in fact they were buried in a small graveyard in Rudnitz which is about 20 miles away. The crash site was close to Lobetal which is the next village to Lanke. The find was only possible thanks to a chance meeting with Dr Hans Richter who was 14 at the time and witnessed the air battle, the break up of the plane and the crash. His father was involved in putting out the fire and removing the bodies from the plane, 6 of the 7 were badly burned, the 7th the tail gunner had crawled from the tail which had broken away from the rest of the plane and landed about 1/2km from the main plane before dying of his injuries, they were laid all out in the village hall before burial with full military honours with a rifle volley from the Luftwaffe based at Finowfurt.
It has been an emotional time for my family and now the families of some of the other crew who again new nothing about the events of that night. This investigation was done because I wanted to know more about what happened, the details were vague and it took the memories of an amazing man and a dedicated bunch of volunteers to find the site and make a permanent exhibition to this brave men who averaged 23 years of age. We are trying to trace the other families of the crew at the moment 4 from the 7 are in contact
Thanks
We have a couple of Canadians in our local cemetry - when my mother went on holiday, she brought back some Canuk soil for them.
