CAA Military Accreditation
Taxy time allowance is actually of little benefit ever since the Military Accreditation System was dumbed down to its present pathetic state.
However, I still recommend that all pilots maintain 2 log books - one military (with hours recorded in accordance with military requirements) and one Part-FCL (with hours recorded in accordance with €ASA requirements).
However, I still recommend that all pilots maintain 2 log books - one military (with hours recorded in accordance with military requirements) and one Part-FCL (with hours recorded in accordance with €ASA requirements).
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Gents
Another licensing question and apologies for being bone but CAP804 is impenetrable. I have got a JAR CPL(H) opened about 3 years ago under the old military bridging scheme on the Merlin Mk1; there is no IR because I am still serving and the helicopter is non procedural. I have had conflicting information about what I need to do to activate this following the introduction of EASA, with the left of arc that I need to do an IR before 1 Apr 15 and the right of arc that I have to start the whole process from scratch. Can anybody give me a steer in the right direction? I have 4000 hours on the mighty King and the Merlin so that should not be an issue.
Another licensing question and apologies for being bone but CAP804 is impenetrable. I have got a JAR CPL(H) opened about 3 years ago under the old military bridging scheme on the Merlin Mk1; there is no IR because I am still serving and the helicopter is non procedural. I have had conflicting information about what I need to do to activate this following the introduction of EASA, with the left of arc that I need to do an IR before 1 Apr 15 and the right of arc that I have to start the whole process from scratch. Can anybody give me a steer in the right direction? I have 4000 hours on the mighty King and the Merlin so that should not be an issue.
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I am doing the deed as we speak. Couple of issues:
There is a deadline but it's for your theory credit. You have until April next year to keep your credit fr the old scheme.
As a might SK and ME1 driver you will need to get your IR before Apr 15 to preserve your ATPL exam credit. You have 2 choices. Get a nice CAA examiner to sit on your shoulder for a mil irt but it needs to be an EASA type and the military chain of command has to sign off on the CAA examiner coming with you. So basically you don't have this option
Second option is to use an EASA type and do a civ IR. Depends on whether you want to do single pilot stuff or multi pilot. If single pilot is what you want then do it on a twin squirrel. You'll need to do min 3 hour type rating plus enough hours to get you ready for procedural irt. Met a guy from rn doing exactly this at star speed - call david Arkell and chat it through with him. You can then get your atpl on the as355 to tick the multi pilot box too (extra 2 hrs plus test). Aviation is an expensive business so none of this comes cheap.
Or you could hope a north sea operator takes you as you are and you get your multi pilot atpl ir through them.
Any further questions PM me. I am doing the single pilot route using my currency on a109. At a job interview if you are against a guy with his licences all sorted.....
There is a deadline but it's for your theory credit. You have until April next year to keep your credit fr the old scheme.
As a might SK and ME1 driver you will need to get your IR before Apr 15 to preserve your ATPL exam credit. You have 2 choices. Get a nice CAA examiner to sit on your shoulder for a mil irt but it needs to be an EASA type and the military chain of command has to sign off on the CAA examiner coming with you. So basically you don't have this option
Second option is to use an EASA type and do a civ IR. Depends on whether you want to do single pilot stuff or multi pilot. If single pilot is what you want then do it on a twin squirrel. You'll need to do min 3 hour type rating plus enough hours to get you ready for procedural irt. Met a guy from rn doing exactly this at star speed - call david Arkell and chat it through with him. You can then get your atpl on the as355 to tick the multi pilot box too (extra 2 hrs plus test). Aviation is an expensive business so none of this comes cheap.
Or you could hope a north sea operator takes you as you are and you get your multi pilot atpl ir through them.
Any further questions PM me. I am doing the single pilot route using my currency on a109. At a job interview if you are against a guy with his licences all sorted.....
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Ref ATPL theory credit for those CPL(H) holders who have done Mil Bridging:
The most recent news I heard is that if you don't get your IR done by Apr 15, you only lose credit for the 4 exams relevant to IR - i.e. after Apr 15 you would have to resit 4 exams, not all 14 or whatever it is these days. Anyone confirm this?
The most recent news I heard is that if you don't get your IR done by Apr 15, you only lose credit for the 4 exams relevant to IR - i.e. after Apr 15 you would have to resit 4 exams, not all 14 or whatever it is these days. Anyone confirm this?
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That is correct. They have decoupled the ATPL and the IR elements so post Apr 15, you will only lose and thus need to re-pass the 4 IR exams before you can then complete an IR. You can also go the self study route before taking the CAA exams rather than needing to do a recognised course again.
I have spoken personally to the CAA policy cell and have a copy of the CAA/JHC policy note email that was forwarded to the AAC AH Force to allay fears of needing to do all the ATPL exams again. The was dated May 13 but never got widely disted.
I'll dig it out of my email inbox and get my teenage son to paste it across. But the long and short is that there is no real rush to do an IR until it is required for those still serving.
I have spoken personally to the CAA policy cell and have a copy of the CAA/JHC policy note email that was forwarded to the AAC AH Force to allay fears of needing to do all the ATPL exams again. The was dated May 13 but never got widely disted.
I'll dig it out of my email inbox and get my teenage son to paste it across. But the long and short is that there is no real rush to do an IR until it is required for those still serving.
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Could you send a copy to me as well, please? [email protected]
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Its already on here somewhere but I have copy on my office wall (is that bad as the TRG offer?).
Interesting interpretation southwest lad and quite right. But doing just those 4 (isn't it 5?) exams would only get you IR credit not ATPL credit wouldn't it? You could therefore get a cpl/ir for single pilot stuff but you would still need 12 exams to go for the atpl. At least that's what the bridging chart seems to indicate on the Bristol.GS site (excellent work Alex).
Interesting interpretation southwest lad and quite right. But doing just those 4 (isn't it 5?) exams would only get you IR credit not ATPL credit wouldn't it? You could therefore get a cpl/ir for single pilot stuff but you would still need 12 exams to go for the atpl. At least that's what the bridging chart seems to indicate on the Bristol.GS site (excellent work Alex).
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here it is
15 Aug 12
22(TRG) GP - BRTEFING NOTE FROM FT FJl SO2
MILITARY ACCREDITATION SCHEME UPDATE - ISSUE 1 AUGUST 2012
Publication of the Military Accreditation Scheme (MAS)
1. The MAS was published by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) on the 27 Jul12. The scheme can be found in CAP 804 Paft 1 Section 4 Parl O which is available on the CAA website. Electronic copies of CAP 804 are available from 22(Trg) Gp on request.
2. Seeking opportunities to improve the MAS, within the constraints of EASA regulation, remains a high priority for 22(Trg) Gp and negotiations are ongoing with the CAA in a number of areas. Policy adjustments have already been made as a result of these negotiations. The following paragraphs summarise the latest position (as at 15 Aug 12) and contain information of importance for those military pilots considering their Flight Crew Licence (FCL) requirements.
Preservation of ATPL Theory Credits
4. This has been the subject of considerable scrutiny by 22(Trg) Gp and the CAA. The policy in this area has been subject to development and I am now pleased to report that:
a. Qualified Service Pilots -Aeroplanes (QSP(A)) who, under the terms of the former QSP Scheme, obtained a JAR-FCL CPL(A) within 36 months of gaining the required pass in the ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examinations will have those theory credits preserved, for the purpose of adding an instrument Rating (lR) to their licence, for a period of 3 years from the date of his/her last flight piloting a military aeroplane OR 3 years from I Apr 12 whichever occurs first.
b. Qualified Service Pilots - Helicopters (QSP(H)) who, under the terms of the former QSP Scheme, obtained a JAR-FCL CPL(H) within 36 months of gaining the required pass in the ATPL(H) theoretical knowledge examinations will have those theory credits preserved, for the purpose of adding an Instrument Rating (lR) to their licence, for a period of 3 years from the date of his/her last flight piloting a military helicopter OR 3 years from 8 Apr 12 whichever occurs first.
5. This policy announcement represents a significant concession to military pilots caught in the transition to EASA regulation. Early indications are that it will benefit a significant number of individuals.
6. For military pilots completing ATPL theoretical knowledge exams after 8 Apr 12 the validity criteria as set out in FCL.025(C) apply. ln other words:
'The successful completion of the theoretical knowledge examinations will be valid for the issue of a commercial pilot licence or instrument rating for a period of 36 months.'
7. lt should also be noted that in all cases ATPL theory credit for the grant of an ATPL will be as stated in FCL.O25(cXZ) ln other words: 'The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of an lR entered in the licence or, in the case of helicopters, a helicopter's type rating entered in that licence.'
Multi-Pilot Accreditation
6. The Voyager and Sea King Mk 6 have been recognised as a multi-pilot aeroplane and multi-pilot helicopter respectively. CAP 804 will be amended accordingly. Further consultation will be taking place with our colleagues from the Army Air Corps in Sep 12 with a view to presenting a case to the CAA to achieve multi-pilot status for the Apache AH64. I shall issue further updates on this matter in due course.
Multi-Engine Accreditation
7. Although the AH64 is not an EASA helicopter type the CAA do recognise it as a multi-engine helicopter and therefore multi-engine hours accrued on it will count when determining the extent of training required for the purpose of achieving a type rating on a multi-engine helicopter at an ATO
Direct Route to the ATPL
8. CAP 804 Section 4 Part F subparts 1 and 2 covers the applicability, privileges and requirements in respect of the EASA Airline Transport Pilot Licence for Aeroplanes and Helicopters. lt will be noted that applicants for an
ATPL(A or H) shall hold a CPL(A or H). HOWEVER the CAA has confirmed that if a QMP is following the requirements for the initial grant of an ATPL (in accordance with CAP 804 Parl 1 Section 4 Parl O para 3.5 for ATPL(A) or part 3.14 or ATPL(H)) there is no requirement for a CPL to be issued first.
CPL(H) Testing
9. The CAA has confirmed that the CPL(H) Skills Test may be undertaken in a multi engine helicopter. Furthermore a CPL skill test is also considered as a type rating skill test in that 'it counts as the demonstration of CPL level competence and competence to fly the type in which the test is taken.'
Summary
9. The implementation of EASA regulation in respect of FCL in the UK has precipitated significant changes to military accreditation. Nevertheless 22(Trg) Gp and the CAA remain committed to securing additional credit where possible against a demanding regulatory backdrop; this will be an ongoing process and I would expect to make further announcements in due course.
Sqn Ldr Richard Saunders
FT FJ1 SO2
Directorate of Flying Training
No 22(Trg) Gp
Military: 9679 80092
Mobile: 07500 065736
Dil FT FJ1
22(TRG) GP - BRTEFING NOTE FROM FT FJl SO2
MILITARY ACCREDITATION SCHEME UPDATE - ISSUE 1 AUGUST 2012
Publication of the Military Accreditation Scheme (MAS)
1. The MAS was published by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) on the 27 Jul12. The scheme can be found in CAP 804 Paft 1 Section 4 Parl O which is available on the CAA website. Electronic copies of CAP 804 are available from 22(Trg) Gp on request.
2. Seeking opportunities to improve the MAS, within the constraints of EASA regulation, remains a high priority for 22(Trg) Gp and negotiations are ongoing with the CAA in a number of areas. Policy adjustments have already been made as a result of these negotiations. The following paragraphs summarise the latest position (as at 15 Aug 12) and contain information of importance for those military pilots considering their Flight Crew Licence (FCL) requirements.
Preservation of ATPL Theory Credits
4. This has been the subject of considerable scrutiny by 22(Trg) Gp and the CAA. The policy in this area has been subject to development and I am now pleased to report that:
a. Qualified Service Pilots -Aeroplanes (QSP(A)) who, under the terms of the former QSP Scheme, obtained a JAR-FCL CPL(A) within 36 months of gaining the required pass in the ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examinations will have those theory credits preserved, for the purpose of adding an instrument Rating (lR) to their licence, for a period of 3 years from the date of his/her last flight piloting a military aeroplane OR 3 years from I Apr 12 whichever occurs first.
b. Qualified Service Pilots - Helicopters (QSP(H)) who, under the terms of the former QSP Scheme, obtained a JAR-FCL CPL(H) within 36 months of gaining the required pass in the ATPL(H) theoretical knowledge examinations will have those theory credits preserved, for the purpose of adding an Instrument Rating (lR) to their licence, for a period of 3 years from the date of his/her last flight piloting a military helicopter OR 3 years from 8 Apr 12 whichever occurs first.
5. This policy announcement represents a significant concession to military pilots caught in the transition to EASA regulation. Early indications are that it will benefit a significant number of individuals.
6. For military pilots completing ATPL theoretical knowledge exams after 8 Apr 12 the validity criteria as set out in FCL.025(C) apply. ln other words:
'The successful completion of the theoretical knowledge examinations will be valid for the issue of a commercial pilot licence or instrument rating for a period of 36 months.'
7. lt should also be noted that in all cases ATPL theory credit for the grant of an ATPL will be as stated in FCL.O25(cXZ) ln other words: 'The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of an lR entered in the licence or, in the case of helicopters, a helicopter's type rating entered in that licence.'
Multi-Pilot Accreditation
6. The Voyager and Sea King Mk 6 have been recognised as a multi-pilot aeroplane and multi-pilot helicopter respectively. CAP 804 will be amended accordingly. Further consultation will be taking place with our colleagues from the Army Air Corps in Sep 12 with a view to presenting a case to the CAA to achieve multi-pilot status for the Apache AH64. I shall issue further updates on this matter in due course.
Multi-Engine Accreditation
7. Although the AH64 is not an EASA helicopter type the CAA do recognise it as a multi-engine helicopter and therefore multi-engine hours accrued on it will count when determining the extent of training required for the purpose of achieving a type rating on a multi-engine helicopter at an ATO
Direct Route to the ATPL
8. CAP 804 Section 4 Part F subparts 1 and 2 covers the applicability, privileges and requirements in respect of the EASA Airline Transport Pilot Licence for Aeroplanes and Helicopters. lt will be noted that applicants for an
ATPL(A or H) shall hold a CPL(A or H). HOWEVER the CAA has confirmed that if a QMP is following the requirements for the initial grant of an ATPL (in accordance with CAP 804 Parl 1 Section 4 Parl O para 3.5 for ATPL(A) or part 3.14 or ATPL(H)) there is no requirement for a CPL to be issued first.
CPL(H) Testing
9. The CAA has confirmed that the CPL(H) Skills Test may be undertaken in a multi engine helicopter. Furthermore a CPL skill test is also considered as a type rating skill test in that 'it counts as the demonstration of CPL level competence and competence to fly the type in which the test is taken.'
Summary
9. The implementation of EASA regulation in respect of FCL in the UK has precipitated significant changes to military accreditation. Nevertheless 22(Trg) Gp and the CAA remain committed to securing additional credit where possible against a demanding regulatory backdrop; this will be an ongoing process and I would expect to make further announcements in due course.
Sqn Ldr Richard Saunders
FT FJ1 SO2
Directorate of Flying Training
No 22(Trg) Gp
Military: 9679 80092
Mobile: 07500 065736
Dil FT FJ1
Mil bridging credits you with a ATPL(H) pass (Mr B Mooney, CAA Policy). CAP 804 Sect 4 Part L Para 4.2 confirms the requirement for only 4 exams (post 31 Mar 15 linking to the note from Rich). CAP 804 Part A FCL.025(c) (2) (ii) credits you with ATPL(H) theory for 7 years after the last valid rating on your licence. Therfore, Virtual me old china, you will have to get a valid EASA type and then convert your licence to EASA (I did it on an AB206, cost me about £700 plus 1xELC, Goodwood and Thruxton among others can sort this). Do your IR before Apr 15 (£30k-ish) and no exams, after, the cost remains the same but you have to do the exams. If going to the North Sea etc, get a ME, MC type and an ATPL(H) you have. Simples.
PS, the AAC note author was SO2 TDT in consultation with the CAA before being signed off by the AAC Regimental Colonel. If you are serving (I no longer am) you should be able to find him on Dii as "AACHQ-TrgDev-SO2-TDT" or very similar.
PS, the AAC note author was SO2 TDT in consultation with the CAA before being signed off by the AAC Regimental Colonel. If you are serving (I no longer am) you should be able to find him on Dii as "AACHQ-TrgDev-SO2-TDT" or very similar.
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Can the MAS be used to credit cross type from QMP(H) to an ATPL(A)? I accept these are very different and that accreditation is likely to be minimal (EFTG to PPL(A) perhaps?), but what I really want to know is whether the hours I have already logged will count towards the minimum for the various FCLs?
Whilst not the most common of routes, I know it has been done in the past. How does one go about it and what are the best docs to read up on for the regs?
Thanks.
Whilst not the most common of routes, I know it has been done in the past. How does one go about it and what are the best docs to read up on for the regs?
Thanks.
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Apologies for the lazy approach but the CAA are slow to respond, I rarely get the same answer twice, and CAP 804 is impossible to work with...
I did old Mil Bridging in 2009 and got a CPL(H) with a mil type on it. I never got around to doing the IR as I was staying in the mob so made the conscious decision to take the pain of doing the 4 IR exams at some point in the future.
Now, however, I'm still in the Forces, the JAR licence is out of date and I've not yet exchanged it for a PART FCL licence. The question is...can I exchange it now, still with nothing on it apart from the original Mil aircraft type (which I haven't flown for 2 years)? Or, do I need to get an EASA type rating first in order to convert the licence? Or option three.... if I do nothing for a year or two, at what point does the rest of my ATPL(H) theory expire and make the JAR licence currently in my sock drawer totally worthless?
My intent is to get a civilian type rating and IR eventually, but maybe not for a couple of years. I have at least kept the medical in date! Thanks for any help or advice.
I did old Mil Bridging in 2009 and got a CPL(H) with a mil type on it. I never got around to doing the IR as I was staying in the mob so made the conscious decision to take the pain of doing the 4 IR exams at some point in the future.
Now, however, I'm still in the Forces, the JAR licence is out of date and I've not yet exchanged it for a PART FCL licence. The question is...can I exchange it now, still with nothing on it apart from the original Mil aircraft type (which I haven't flown for 2 years)? Or, do I need to get an EASA type rating first in order to convert the licence? Or option three.... if I do nothing for a year or two, at what point does the rest of my ATPL(H) theory expire and make the JAR licence currently in my sock drawer totally worthless?
My intent is to get a civilian type rating and IR eventually, but maybe not for a couple of years. I have at least kept the medical in date! Thanks for any help or advice.
It was that you needed a current EASA type but I gave heard if many simply exchanging still with the mil type, the licence gaming noting in it but you, as you gave done, do need a medical. There is a form that confirms your military experience signed by the CO that accompanies it all. Telephoning often meets with differing answers, I would simply apply and see what written response you get, from here you can appeal if not happy citing colleagues experiences. Your ATPL(H) theory credits do not expire but your IR credits expired last April, it is four exams for you my boy.
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Cheers SL - that's what I was hoping for. Slightly surprised the ATPL theory credit doesn't expire but I'll take it. Presumably the CAA know I have that credit as I don't remember ever getting a certificate or anything that stated it. But I suppose the CPL shows that the necessary was achieved at some point!
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Cheers SL - that's what I was hoping for. Slightly surprised the ATPL theory credit doesn't expire but I'll take it. Presumably the CAA know I have that credit as I don't remember ever getting a certificate or anything that stated it. But I suppose the CPL shows that the necessary was achieved at some point!
However all is not lost. Your CPL is in the bag. It will never expire and gives a good jumping off point. If you want to get just a CPL/IR in the future its just 5 exams, and a few trips and test (assuming a valid in service green unrestricted IR). If you eventually want an ATPL (multicrew) its all the exams and a bit more flying. Flying a civil type whilst still in (A109 springs to mind) makes the transition easier.
I wouldn't bother getting your JAR licence renewed now by the way - it would cost and you would have a depressing empty licence. I believe you can still wait until the next time you put something in it and the conversion is then free (if not the new rating). Also consider the tax deductible status of CAA fees (check out tax manual for professional fees online). Might represent a big saving).
PM if you need more. Incidentally once you have ATPL (H) credit, turning it into A credit is 5 more exams. All you mil heli hours are useful if you just want to go into that route in the first place. I worked out it was even on cost to get my mil heli quals converted into civil as it was to start from scratch as fixed wing...the joys of the gass guzzling helicopters at £2500 per hour!
Hmn.....happy to be proved wrong, conversation with Policy a couple of years ago as the 22 Gp/DAAvn letter was being drafted confirmed the mil bridging to be an ATPL(H) pass. I do recall there being something about being in current flying practice but can't remember if it was mil or civi.
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Agree with sloppy
I also have the email from 22gp and CAA, the ATPL(H) credits are valid 7 years. The ones that died last April were the IR credits. It was from a couple of years ago.
I have received in writing from the CAA that if you have CPL(H) with ATPL(H) theory credit ( not an ATPL(H)) you only need to 5 exams to get your ATPL(A) theory. See CAP 804, section 4, Annex L, page 1, Para 3.2.
I have received in writing from the CAA that if you have CPL(H) with ATPL(H) theory credit ( not an ATPL(H)) you only need to 5 exams to get your ATPL(A) theory. See CAP 804, section 4, Annex L, page 1, Para 3.2.
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I also have the email from 22gp and CAA, the ATPL(H) credits are valid 7 years. The ones that died last April were the IR credits. It was from a couple of years ago.
I have received in writing from the CAA that if you have CPL(H) with ATPL(H) theory credit ( not an ATPL(H)) you only need to 5 exams to get your ATPL(A) theory. See CAP 804, section 4, Annex L, page 1, Para 3.2.
I have received in writing from the CAA that if you have CPL(H) with ATPL(H) theory credit ( not an ATPL(H)) you only need to 5 exams to get your ATPL(A) theory. See CAP 804, section 4, Annex L, page 1, Para 3.2.
15 Aug 12
22(TRG) GP - BRIEFING NOTE FROM FT FJ1 SO2
MILITARY ACCREDITATION SCHEME UPDATE - ISSUE 1 AUGUST 2012
Publication of the Military Accreditation Scheme (MAS)
1. The MAS was published by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) on the 27 Jul 12. The scheme can be found in CAP 804 Part 1 Section 4 Part O which is available on the CAA website. Electronic copies of CAP 804 are available from 22(Trg) Gp on request.
2. Seeking opportunities to improve the MAS, within the constraints of EASA regulation, remains a high priority for 22(Trg) Gp and negotiations are ongoing with the CAA in a number of areas. Policy adjustments have already been made as a result of these negotiations. The following paragraphs summarise the latest position (as at 15 Aug 12) and contain information of importance for those military pilots considering their Flight Crew Licence (FCL) requirements.
Preservation of ATPL Theory Credits
4. This has been the subject of considerable scrutiny by 22(Trg) Gp and the CAA. The policy in this area has been subject to development and I am now pleased to report that:
a. Qualified Service Pilots -Aeroplanes (QSP(A)) who, under the terms of the former QSP Scheme, obtained a JAR-FCL CPL(A) within 36 months of gaining the required pass in the ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examinations will have those theory credits preserved, for the purpose of adding an Instrument Rating (IR) to their licence, for a period of 3 years from the date of his/her last flight piloting a military aeroplane OR 3 years from 8 Apr 12 whichever occurs first.
b. Qualified Service Pilots - Helicopters (QSP(H)) who, under the terms of the former QSP Scheme, obtained a JAR-FCL CPL(H) within 36 months of gaining the required pass in the ATPL(H) theoretical knowledge examinations will have those theory credits preserved, for the purpose of adding an Instrument Rating (IR) to their licence, for a period of 3 years from the date of his/her last flight piloting a military helicopter OR 3 years from 8 Apr 12 whichever occurs first.
5. This policy announcement represents a significant concession to military pilots caught in the transition to EASA regulation. Early indications are that it will benefit a significant number of individuals.
6. For military pilots completing ATPL theoretical knowledge exams after 8 Apr 12 the validity criteria as set out in FCL.025(C) apply. In other words: 'The successful completion of the theoretical knowledge examinations will be valid for the issue of a commercial pilot licence or instrument rating for a period of 36 months.'
7. It should also be noted that in all cases ATPL theory credit for the grant of an ATPL will be as stated in FCL.025(c)(2). In other words: 'The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of an IR entered in the licence or, in the case of helicopters, a helicopter's type rating entered in that licence.'
Multi-Pilot Accreditation
6. The Voyager and Sea King Mk 6 have been recognised as a multi-pilot aeroplane and multi-pilot helicopter respectively. CAP 804 will be amended accordingly. Further consultation will be taking place with our colleagues from the Army Air Corps in Sep 12 with a view to presenting a case to the CAA to achieve multi-pilot status for the Apache AH64. I shall issue further updates on this matter in due course.
Multi-Engine Accreditation
7. Although the AH64 is not an EASA helicopter type the CAA do recognise it as a multi-engine helicopter and therefore multi-engine hours accrued on it will count when determining the extent of training required for the purpose of achieving a type rating on a multi-engine helicopter at an ATO.
Direct Route to the ATPL
8. CAP 804 Section 4 Part F subparts 1 and 2 covers the applicability, privileges and requirements in respect of the EASA Airline Transport Pilot Licence for Aeroplanes and Helicopters. It will be noted that applicants for an ATPL(A or H) shall hold a CPL(A or H). HOWEVER the CAA has confirmed that if a QMP is following the requirements for the initial grant of an ATPL (in accordance with CAP 804 Part 1 Section 4 Part O para 3.5 for ATPL(A) or para 3.14 for ATPL(H)) there is no requirement for a CPL to be issued first.
CPL(H) Testing
9. The CAA has confirmed that the CPL(H) Skills Test may be undertaken in a multi engine helicopter. Furthermore a CPL skill test is also considered as a type rating skill test in that 'it counts as the demonstration of CPL level competence and competence to fly the type in which the test is taken.'
Summary
9. The implementation of EASA regulation in respect of FCL in the UK has precipitated significant changes to military accreditation. Nevertheless 22(Trg) Gp and the CAA remain committed to securing additional credit where possible against a demanding regulatory backdrop; this will be an ongoing process and I would expect to make further announcements in due course.
Sqn Ldr Richard Saunders
FT FJ1 SO2
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Thanks all - some very useful info there. The bit I'm a little unclear on though is when that 7 years start. It's nearly 7 years since the licence was opened with a mil heli type rating and, although never renewed as such, I still flew that type, with a mil IR, up to last year.
Gypsy - tax relief on fees sounds interesting. I suppose that could be extended to all training costs if you were to set yourself up as a sole trader - something I will definitely look into when the time comes.
Gypsy - tax relief on fees sounds interesting. I suppose that could be extended to all training costs if you were to set yourself up as a sole trader - something I will definitely look into when the time comes.
FCL 025 (c) (2) (ii) http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/...searchable.pdf is the puppy you are looking for, it is all coming back to me now (go Ctrl F, enter "7 years" and it goes straight to it). 7 years from your last valid rating, therefore your last skills test. As you have stayed mil, your struggle will be convincing Aviation House that your mil standards check is your last skills test, this form, box 4 should do it. http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/...FFenabled1.pdf
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