Some observed differences in round engines and jets
It wasn't a 'Piston Provost', it was a (Percival) Provost T Mk1. The 'piston' bit only crept in after the constant-power-variable-noise machine arrived.
Removes pedant hat
And as far as I can remember from a six-week stint at Spitalgate while the Barkston Heath runway was resurfaced, there weren't any trees on the approach.
At the time, Spitalgate was the WRAF basic trg school, or somesuch, and a lot of flight cadets were to be seen hanging around in those rather strange ill-fitting grey flying suits we had, ready to answer, in a very cool way, "Why, yes, I'm a pilot, how did you know?"
Removes pedant hat
And as far as I can remember from a six-week stint at Spitalgate while the Barkston Heath runway was resurfaced, there weren't any trees on the approach.
At the time, Spitalgate was the WRAF basic trg school, or somesuch, and a lot of flight cadets were to be seen hanging around in those rather strange ill-fitting grey flying suits we had, ready to answer, in a very cool way, "Why, yes, I'm a pilot, how did you know?"
...... possibly landing at RAF Spitalgate grass airfield on the edge of Grantham, Lincolnshire circa 1956
Last edited by brakedwell; 28th Jan 2012 at 10:51.
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The Provost XF877, photographed earlier, was civvy-registered G-AWVF. It was the Provost whose engine failed dramatically on 9 Jul 09, probably incapacitating the pilot who died in the crash.
Cranwell cadets who trained during 1958 were issued bonedomes on arrival at College.
Cranwell cadets who trained during 1958 were issued bonedomes on arrival at College.
More information about the Shuttleworth Provost T Mk1, together with the reason for its camouflaged finish, can be seen at: Shuttleworth Old Warden Park - The Shuttleworth Aircraft Collection
My poor old log book is getting a hammering during this thread. So much so that the pages are falling out.
Lots of WV44s, but not 441. I flew XF603 a few times but not XF877. Judging by the paintwork that was an ex Sleaford Tech aircraft and they wouldn't have allowed it to be soiled by the hands of mere Direct Entry students.
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Trees on the landing approach to Spitalgate ....
And as far as I can remember from a six-week stint at Spitalgate while the Barkston Heath runway was resurfaced, there weren't any trees on the approach.
At night the grass strip was illuminated with oil burning 'goose-necks'.
It was a demanding approach for a low hour novice to cross trees in a 550 HP radial, keep an eye on the rudimentary slope indicator (what was it called?) and then round out into the smoky flarepath. But it instilled a very rewarding psychology: the will to readily & fearlessly overcome the many random deviations that occur on short finals.
What a load of romantic claptrap. 
Engines are there to give forward motion, so you can get to where you are planning to go and do whatever it is you have been tasked to do.
And Nutloose...I have seen/flown through enough birdstrikes that have gone down the engine to know that your statement is incorrect. Some jet engines may die, some not. It isn't a 100% science.
I'd far rather my engine started reliably the first time I attempt to start it.
I can hear my jet engine on take-off, honest.
I'm quite happy if my jet is easy to land.....more chance of me flying them for 20+ years and not having any issues.
I don't smoke.
I have flown the Chipmunk and still fly wooden-prop'd aircraft today...give me a jet engine every time.
Engines are there to give forward motion, so you can get to where you are planning to go and do whatever it is you have been tasked to do.
And Nutloose...I have seen/flown through enough birdstrikes that have gone down the engine to know that your statement is incorrect. Some jet engines may die, some not. It isn't a 100% science.
I'd far rather my engine started reliably the first time I attempt to start it.
I can hear my jet engine on take-off, honest.
I'm quite happy if my jet is easy to land.....more chance of me flying them for 20+ years and not having any issues.
I don't smoke.
I have flown the Chipmunk and still fly wooden-prop'd aircraft today...give me a jet engine every time.
Last edited by just another jocky; 28th Jan 2012 at 15:17. Reason: not sure how to spell prop'd or if it's even a word
The most frequent final approach to Spitalgate was made over the dead straight N - S Roman road
aw ditor - one thing I do remember about that Spitalgate downwind leg was - never mind getting lost, the done thing at the end of the solo night cross-country was to do a slow roll downwind.
Personally, I scared myself fartless. In fact, I think I learned about flying from that....
Personally, I scared myself fartless. In fact, I think I learned about flying from that....
I have flown the Chipmunk
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A slow roll downwind at night ?
airsound wrote (#33) in a thread about the differences in handling early piston & jet aircraft.....
– the done thing at the end of the solo night cross-country was to do a slow roll downwind –
Presumably he was thinking about his pocket Nintendo.
If so, some further advice on how & when to use top rudder during the roll will be appreciated. It was always a difficult judgment, at height on a VFR day, particularly so if the roll was a slow elegant 360º rotation without losing height.
– the done thing at the end of the solo night cross-country was to do a slow roll downwind –
Presumably he was thinking about his pocket Nintendo.
If so, some further advice on how & when to use top rudder during the roll will be appreciated. It was always a difficult judgment, at height on a VFR day, particularly so if the roll was a slow elegant 360º rotation without losing height.
curvedsky - yes, it was the culmination of the solo night cross country. June 1960. I can only assume the QFIs (and air traffic) were turning a blind eye. I well remember watching from our dispersal as pairs of nav lights (no anti-collision beacons then, of course) made their way along that downwind leg (roughly over the road that rubberband talked about in post #29) and then slowly rotated all the way round before returning to upright and then turning onto base leg.
Then it was my turn. I suppose I probably did a practice roll somewhere during the navex - can't remember. And as you say, curvedsky
I decided to allow myself an unusually high start to the downwind leg. As far as I can remember, I lost about 500ft - and it was anything but slow and elegant. So, I'm afraid any advice I might offer on top rudder is probably worthless.
On the other hand, we did all survive. And it was more than 50 years ago. Somehow, I can't see it happening today. Many will say that's a good thing.
Btw, I do apologise for appalling thread drift.
Then it was my turn. I suppose I probably did a practice roll somewhere during the navex - can't remember. And as you say, curvedsky
It was always a difficult judgment, at height on a VFR day, particularly so if the roll was a slow elegant 360º rotation without losing height.
On the other hand, we did all survive. And it was more than 50 years ago. Somehow, I can't see it happening today. Many will say that's a good thing.
Btw, I do apologise for appalling thread drift.
You could always tell when somebody had done aerobatics during a navex. After they had shut the aircraft down you could see them searching the cockpit for their maps. The number of foreign pilots trained on the Provost was quite considerable as this photo of my course shows.
This was 'A' flight' They were:
One Royal Jordanian Air Force.
Two Lebenese Air Force.
Three Royal Malaysian Air Force.
One RAF NCO remustered to GD Officer.
One RAF Eng Officer remustered to GD.
One ex National Service pilot remustered as GD. He had to forfeit his old wings and start again from scratch.
Four Direct Entry GD pilots.
'B' flight consisted of the entire pilot strength of the Ghanaian Air Force. Rumour had it that they met a sticky end on a beach when Nkrumah was overthown.
This was 'A' flight' They were:
One Royal Jordanian Air Force.
Two Lebenese Air Force.
Three Royal Malaysian Air Force.
One RAF NCO remustered to GD Officer.
One RAF Eng Officer remustered to GD.
One ex National Service pilot remustered as GD. He had to forfeit his old wings and start again from scratch.
Four Direct Entry GD pilots.
'B' flight consisted of the entire pilot strength of the Ghanaian Air Force. Rumour had it that they met a sticky end on a beach when Nkrumah was overthown.
Last edited by Fareastdriver; 30th Jan 2012 at 18:10.
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And Nutloose...I have seen/flown through enough birdstrikes that have gone down the engine to know that your statement is incorrect. Some jet engines may die, some not. It isn't a 100% science.
We are talking geese, not many will walk away from an encounter with them... True I have changed a lot of bird struck engines, your average sparrow won't do much, a goose though tends to leave its mark though, and a human if you have ever seen the dreadful continental engine pictures sadly even more
They are an eye opener
and one reason I get so peeved at these people trespassing on aircraft and airports.
Five or six herring gulls commited suicide by flying into the right engine of my B757 shortly before rotate at Manchester. The RB211 was shut down because it exceeded the vibration limits. Three fan blades were replaced and the aircraft departed to Corfu with a fresh crew several hours later.