Search and Rescue Training Unit
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oxon
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Chopped as well 
Joined SARTU in the late 80's and spent the best part of 2 years there as a Sgt techie helping run the line. I socialised and made friends with all the folk there, both rear crew and pilots.
Saw the light applied for ALM and with a huge amount of help from the SARTU rear crew folk I applied and coasted through the selection process.
Sailed through Biggen Hill, Finningly, Shawbury and whilst at Shawbury I set off to SARTU for the 2 week SAR Famil course. At 54 I look back on this as the only 14 days of my RAF career where I felt absolutely powerless to control my destiney.
In quarters at Valley at the time with K and the kids I ran home most evenings as part of the keep fit thing almost in tears wondering why the folk I "knew" were ******* me over?
Looking back over 37 years of service I have only "hated" as in seriously wished ill of 2 people I ever met. In this instance I really really do hope that little welsh **** of a Nav gets his just reward and when he does I genuinely hope it really really hurts
Joined SARTU in the late 80's and spent the best part of 2 years there as a Sgt techie helping run the line. I socialised and made friends with all the folk there, both rear crew and pilots.
Saw the light applied for ALM and with a huge amount of help from the SARTU rear crew folk I applied and coasted through the selection process.
Sailed through Biggen Hill, Finningly, Shawbury and whilst at Shawbury I set off to SARTU for the 2 week SAR Famil course. At 54 I look back on this as the only 14 days of my RAF career where I felt absolutely powerless to control my destiney.
In quarters at Valley at the time with K and the kids I ran home most evenings as part of the keep fit thing almost in tears wondering why the folk I "knew" were ******* me over?
Looking back over 37 years of service I have only "hated" as in seriously wished ill of 2 people I ever met. In this instance I really really do hope that little welsh **** of a Nav gets his just reward and when he does I genuinely hope it really really hurts
Last edited by Seldomfitforpurpose; 22nd Apr 2012 at 14:39.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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I went to SARTU twice, holding, so on neither occasion were they in a position to do me good or harm. I really enjoyed myself both times even though I found watched my 3000th retrieval of a drum quite mind numbing. I will admit though that the arbitrary nature of the criticism is something I remember still so, like it or not, there is definitely some warranted criticism taking place in this thread.
Join Date: Jan 2009
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SARTU
I went through SARTU (successfully) in 2000. I came to SAR having done 2 instructional tours on fixed wing. Like Airborne Aircrew, I also found the post-sortie criticism (I won't say debriefs) to be arbitrary.
My experience was that what passed for instructional technique at SARTU wasn't much more than pointed (frequently random) criticism.
Despite enjoying my time on SAR immensely, I was singularly underwhelmed by both the instructors and the 'leadership' at SARTU.
Sun.
My experience was that what passed for instructional technique at SARTU wasn't much more than pointed (frequently random) criticism.
Despite enjoying my time on SAR immensely, I was singularly underwhelmed by both the instructors and the 'leadership' at SARTU.
Sun.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: In The Trap, trapped.....
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It would seem that SARTU has opened a can of worms it (he) didn't expect.........Good Luck with that Reunion - So Many Happy Memories! It would make an interesting documentary
I've got to admit this thread has me intrigued. I was groundcrew on B Flt, 202 Sqn from Jan '86 to Feb '00 and I had no idea that SARTU was as described in these posts.
All the rear crew. and most of the pilots for that matter, that I had dealings with in that period seemed to be thoroughly decent.
All the rear crew. and most of the pilots for that matter, that I had dealings with in that period seemed to be thoroughly decent.
Good heavens - SARTU ('twas CFS(H) when I was there) sounds extraordinarily like the JATCC regime of the 70's.
I was short-toured from Thorney to instruct at Valley and joined my original instructors 'Jean' Batten, Rick Windon and Master (Roy) Bates ... Nav and Siggies. From memory, the 'company line' was to look for commonsense and enthusiasm and encourage it. When 'Cav the Nav' took over it was more of the same but more so. Towards the end of my time there I failed one chap because I felt that he could have been a liability to himself as well as his 'survivor'. That afternoon Cav booked a staff detail and went as survivor with me on the wire ... a sort of 'money where your mouth is' 45 minutes!!! Can still recall the TOTAL exhaustion!!
Seem to recall that, about the time I left, there was a much more specific set of guidelines introduced for rear crew, including a requirement to have passed the swimming test - not so when I started!! Interestingly, the most active winchman on the Valley flight, at that time, was 'Willy the Winch' who could not swim at all.
Seems a shame that what was, for me, the VERY best part of my career, could have, if only briefly, later become a source of such ill feeling.
I was short-toured from Thorney to instruct at Valley and joined my original instructors 'Jean' Batten, Rick Windon and Master (Roy) Bates ... Nav and Siggies. From memory, the 'company line' was to look for commonsense and enthusiasm and encourage it. When 'Cav the Nav' took over it was more of the same but more so. Towards the end of my time there I failed one chap because I felt that he could have been a liability to himself as well as his 'survivor'. That afternoon Cav booked a staff detail and went as survivor with me on the wire ... a sort of 'money where your mouth is' 45 minutes!!! Can still recall the TOTAL exhaustion!!
Seem to recall that, about the time I left, there was a much more specific set of guidelines introduced for rear crew, including a requirement to have passed the swimming test - not so when I started!! Interestingly, the most active winchman on the Valley flight, at that time, was 'Willy the Winch' who could not swim at all.
Seems a shame that what was, for me, the VERY best part of my career, could have, if only briefly, later become a source of such ill feeling.
I'm sure the reunion will be 'spirited'. Most of the strokers have moved on and there are some really good lads there now, though some of the old guard are still clinging on by their fingertips.
Perhaps a BBQ on the beach, I know of at least one old goose that I'd like to see torched.
Mine's a bitter.... but only a small one.
Perhaps a BBQ on the beach, I know of at least one old goose that I'd like to see torched.
Mine's a bitter.... but only a small one.
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Llamaman,
As I said in my previous post, I passed SARTU successfully but was still shocked by the poor instruction and culture of (un-justified) superiority displayed by the rearcrew staff. Most of the front seaters were fine and in fact frequently appeared embarrassed by the things they heard coming from the rear of the cab.
It was a genuine shame. The 7 years I spent on SAR were amongst the most enjoyable of the 25 I spent in the RAF. That was however, despite my experiences on SARTU, not because of them.
Sun.
As I said in my previous post, I passed SARTU successfully but was still shocked by the poor instruction and culture of (un-justified) superiority displayed by the rearcrew staff. Most of the front seaters were fine and in fact frequently appeared embarrassed by the things they heard coming from the rear of the cab.
It was a genuine shame. The 7 years I spent on SAR were amongst the most enjoyable of the 25 I spent in the RAF. That was however, despite my experiences on SARTU, not because of them.
Sun.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Went through the end of Shawbury SARTU course as pilot in 94, and in very slight mitigation, they were not helped by the fact that back then the SARTU element took place AFTER the 'wings' trip at Shawbury and usually 80-90% of the pilot students actively did not want to go SAR (8 out of 9 in our case). However the overriding impression I left with was that too many of the instructors, both front and back, had simply been there too long. Nice spot by the beach though.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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llalla,
Self confessed failure at SARTU as a previous post indicates however having been involved, directly and indirectly with J model conversion for the last 10 years I sort of wonder how we have only failed 1 ALM in all that time
I know your bait was set so I assume you are not a defender of the SARTU thing but if you could find it out it would be very interesting to know the failure rate over the years
Self confessed failure at SARTU as a previous post indicates however having been involved, directly and indirectly with J model conversion for the last 10 years I sort of wonder how we have only failed 1 ALM in all that time
I know your bait was set so I assume you are not a defender of the SARTU thing but if you could find it out it would be very interesting to know the failure rate over the years
Join Date: Nov 2001
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I'm absolutely astonished at the adverse comments on this thread. In my time at 3 Sqn/SARTS/SARTU as a pilot instructor/staff pilot in the mid '70's, the rear crew staff instructors seemed to do a damned good job.
However, the failure rate for rear crew was high, sometimes as high as 40%, but it wasn't hard to detect from the the cockpit those who weren't going to make it. Some were simply not happy working in the water on the end of the wire or not up to the physical demands, and I know having tried it on many occasions. A lot however struggled with the co-ordination of winch operating and "pattering" to form a word picture of what what going on down below within the format of the correct wording.
I think it was a job with high demands and wasn't not suited to everybody.
However, the failure rate for rear crew was high, sometimes as high as 40%, but it wasn't hard to detect from the the cockpit those who weren't going to make it. Some were simply not happy working in the water on the end of the wire or not up to the physical demands, and I know having tried it on many occasions. A lot however struggled with the co-ordination of winch operating and "pattering" to form a word picture of what what going on down below within the format of the correct wording.
I think it was a job with high demands and wasn't not suited to everybody.