Jaguar Aircraft Accidents
Just done some searching on t'intraweb and can confirm date as 25 Feb 77, but access to Smash Mag is mysteriously archived (as a lot of them are) and inaccessible. They would be available through National Archives I would imagine since post 25 years.
Will keep searching and update as I can.
Will keep searching and update as I can.
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Thanks a lot
Thanks a lot so far.
Ever been to RAF Museum Laarbruch?
I tried to build a timeline.
Please take a look.
It's bilingual (Anglo-German).
Ever been to RAF Museum Laarbruch?
I tried to build a timeline.
Please take a look.
It's bilingual (Anglo-German).
If it helps, I know that Doug Stein was killed in a II Sqn Jag just south of Nordhorn in poor weather, I think Feb 1977. I had just landed a Bucc following a gear problem, when I was told.
Thread Starter
The accident report says the following:
The aircraft was No: 2 in a four aircraft formation on a bombing sorti to the Nordhorn Ranges. After the attack the No: 2 was flying on the wing of the No: 4 when they flew through a patch of cloud and lost contact with each other. It is supposed that No: 2 then made a steep diving turn to link up with the No: 3 who was low and to the left of the No: 2 but in doing so, he entered a near maximum rate left hand turn from which he could not recover in the height available.
The location is given as: 2 miles south of Nordhorn Range.
Old Duffer
The aircraft was No: 2 in a four aircraft formation on a bombing sorti to the Nordhorn Ranges. After the attack the No: 2 was flying on the wing of the No: 4 when they flew through a patch of cloud and lost contact with each other. It is supposed that No: 2 then made a steep diving turn to link up with the No: 3 who was low and to the left of the No: 2 but in doing so, he entered a near maximum rate left hand turn from which he could not recover in the height available.
The location is given as: 2 miles south of Nordhorn Range.
Old Duffer
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Michael Messenger was my dad
Hi there,
I was wondering if anyone can help me?
My dad Michael was one of the 6 killed on the 21st May 1983 in Germany. I was one and a half years old at the time and so, have no memories of my dad. My mom, Gail was a young mom left on her own with a young baby.
I have looked through all your posts and find it deeply disturbing yet not surprising that the RAF 'powers that be' may have been responsible for a cover up. If I had been responsible for making a decision that had caused people to lose lives I could not live with myself.
If you knew my dad I would be so grateful if you would get in touch.
You can contact me via [email protected] or
[email protected]
I look forward to hearing from you soon
I was wondering if anyone can help me?
My dad Michael was one of the 6 killed on the 21st May 1983 in Germany. I was one and a half years old at the time and so, have no memories of my dad. My mom, Gail was a young mom left on her own with a young baby.
I have looked through all your posts and find it deeply disturbing yet not surprising that the RAF 'powers that be' may have been responsible for a cover up. If I had been responsible for making a decision that had caused people to lose lives I could not live with myself.
If you knew my dad I would be so grateful if you would get in touch.
You can contact me via [email protected] or
[email protected]
I look forward to hearing from you soon
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Emma, I have sent the two posting on here that were on the coach messages to alert them to your quest, such a tragic loss, one hopes they can fill in a few blanks for you.
NL
NL
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Thank you so so much! So sad to think how different mine and mom's lives could have been if my dad had lived 
So sad to think I will never have chance to know him.
Thank you so much for your help,
Emma
So sad to think I will never have chance to know him.Thank you so much for your help,
Emma
I was running the Sqn Flying Clothing on II(AC) the day Doug Stein died at Nordhorn. I recall the 3 remaining members of the formation came back into my place in tears.
A very very sad day - Doug was a very personable young man at the start of his career.
R.I.P
A very very sad day - Doug was a very personable young man at the start of his career.
R.I.P
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Nothing has changed. Obey or we'll do you, if it goes wrong we'll screw you.
My Dad recounted things like that when he was flying in WW2, I saw things like that when I was in and it still goes on today. Always blame someone who died, if you can, and if you can't make it up DON'T, under any circumstances, allow anyone with a version of events that deviates from the official one anywhere near the BOI. If this is not possible, smear them to the utmost.
Nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to corruption, ass covering and self interest especially in MoD and associated branches.
A very sad,
DN
My Dad recounted things like that when he was flying in WW2, I saw things like that when I was in and it still goes on today. Always blame someone who died, if you can, and if you can't make it up DON'T, under any circumstances, allow anyone with a version of events that deviates from the official one anywhere near the BOI. If this is not possible, smear them to the utmost.
Nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to corruption, ass covering and self interest especially in MoD and associated branches.
A very sad,
DN
Last edited by Deepest Norfolk; 27th Oct 2013 at 09:42.
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There was a wheels-up landing of a 2 Sqn Jag - XZ108 - from RAF Laarbruch at the airfield "de Peel" in the Netherlands on 31 Aug 1978.
Does anyone have any memories?
Who was the pilot?
We hear that it lasted some time till the RAF was able to return the aircraft to Laarbruch.
True?
Deepest Norfolk
Based on my experience I would say your last post was a little harsh. Maybe there are examples in recent(ish) history where it may have been the case. In the time I've been in (1999-present) I have unfortunately had several friends killed in flying accidents. Out of all these I have never seen the system attempt to blame the individual or cover up anything. In fact I see a system that is at pains to honour the fallen and make open and honest recommendations.
My particular milieu is FJs (ex Jag as it happens) so I may not be party to grievances that others have with the powers that be, but I would not associate the MOD/RAF of old that you describe with the one I currently serve in and would be horrified if it were the case.
BV
My particular milieu is FJs (ex Jag as it happens) so I may not be party to grievances that others have with the powers that be, but I would not associate the MOD/RAF of old that you describe with the one I currently serve in and would be horrified if it were the case.
BV
Avoid imitations
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Based on my experience I would say your last post was a little harsh. Maybe there are examples in recent(ish) history where it may have been the case. In the time I've been in (1999-present) I have unfortunately had several friends killed in flying accidents. Out of all these I have never seen the system attempt to blame the individual or cover up anything. In fact I see a system that is at pains to honour the fallen and make open and honest recommendations.
My particular milieu is FJs (ex Jag as it happens) so I may not be party to grievances that others have with the powers that be, but I would not associate the MOD/RAF of old that you describe with the one I currently serve in and would be horrified if it were the case.
My particular milieu is FJs (ex Jag as it happens) so I may not be party to grievances that others have with the powers that be, but I would not associate the MOD/RAF of old that you describe with the one I currently serve in and would be horrified if it were the case.
Jaguar Aircraft Accidents
Did you not read my post. I'm well aware of the MoK incident but that was nearly twenty years ago. As I stated I joined in 1999. The point I took issue with was when DN stated it is still a problem today. I beg to differ. As I also stated I am a FJ guy and from where I sit there is not an MOD conspiracy to besmirch the good name of anyone lost in a fatal accident. Quite the opposite in fact. You have every right to disagree of course.
BV
BV
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jag xx732 David Buteau crash site
hi I would like to say that me and my best man have been on the search for the crash site of xx732 for about a year now as kids it was very clear when it happened but finding the location very sketchy iv spoke to few farmer friends that has pointed me in the general area its all in thick forestry we would like to try to get some sort of plaque made for (David Buteau) but through right channels air crash report says it 10 mls north of Hawick on stocks hill it's more 1-2mls towards Hawick Teviot head most of air crashes from late 1970to80s have plaques as have easy access to them can point us to the right channels to do this.