C130 Water Landing- been tried?
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ditching a C-130
I was a loadmaster on C-130's. This aircraft was pressurized, so seals aroung the doors and the cargo ramp were tight. There were exit hatches along the top so that a crew could exit the aircraft without opening the door, which would have swamped the plane quickly.
As to landing it on water, it had an essentially flat-bottomed fuselage and two sponsons, one over each main gear. I see no reason why this airplane could not be ditched, provided that it was not windy and the water was smooth.
In any case, I have personally seen a photograph of a USAF C-130 floating on the ocean. The only visible parts of the aircraft were the top of the wing and the vertical stabilizer.
At on time I had this photo. I think I found it on Airliners.Net, which has a huge database of photos.
As to landing it on water, it had an essentially flat-bottomed fuselage and two sponsons, one over each main gear. I see no reason why this airplane could not be ditched, provided that it was not windy and the water was smooth.
In any case, I have personally seen a photograph of a USAF C-130 floating on the ocean. The only visible parts of the aircraft were the top of the wing and the vertical stabilizer.
At on time I had this photo. I think I found it on Airliners.Net, which has a huge database of photos.
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From what I remember, the flight deck had a high likelihood of flooding on impact from the oggin...
Always decided if it had happened, down the back for the flight deck bar the skipper was probably the best way to ensure the majority of the crew survived.
Always decided if it had happened, down the back for the flight deck bar the skipper was probably the best way to ensure the majority of the crew survived.
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The C-130 picture
The posted picture is indeed the one I was referring to. Thanks for taking the trouble to share it.
I have no idea what the ditching procedures for a C-130 are; although most of my flights were over water, the subject of ditching was never discussed.
I am no pilot, but if I were and if I ever had to ditch an aircraft, I would jettison the cargo, dump the fuel if possible, and land in the direction the waves were moving. I realize that having the wind at the tail would make for a higher speed relative to the water below than landing into the wind.
It seems to me that if you try to land into the wind, although this would make for a lower impact speed with the water, it would also create a virtual assurance of hitting a wave head on, thereby caving in the cockpit windows. Plus, I believe it would subject the aircraft to stresses that would make it more likely to break apart before it came to rest.
It's too bad that the fellow who landed the C-130 shown in the photo isn't available to tell us how he did it.
I have no idea what the ditching procedures for a C-130 are; although most of my flights were over water, the subject of ditching was never discussed.
I am no pilot, but if I were and if I ever had to ditch an aircraft, I would jettison the cargo, dump the fuel if possible, and land in the direction the waves were moving. I realize that having the wind at the tail would make for a higher speed relative to the water below than landing into the wind.
It seems to me that if you try to land into the wind, although this would make for a lower impact speed with the water, it would also create a virtual assurance of hitting a wave head on, thereby caving in the cockpit windows. Plus, I believe it would subject the aircraft to stresses that would make it more likely to break apart before it came to rest.
It's too bad that the fellow who landed the C-130 shown in the photo isn't available to tell us how he did it.
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C 130 ditching
I was told during initial ground school on the Herc that there had never been a successful ditching in a Herc. The forward section snaps off forward of the wing and immediately sinks. Maybe someone in the tail could survive but in the cockpit, you are a goner.
Why then we went to survival training in the hotel pool with life vests and rafts is a wonder.
After 5,000 hours in the old girl, still one of my favs
Why then we went to survival training in the hotel pool with life vests and rafts is a wonder.
After 5,000 hours in the old girl, still one of my favs
So much on the net is the result of over fertile imaginations, but this sounds plausible, and could be what Gainsey was referring to back in 2009:
Hercules Goes For a Swim : Atomic Toasters
Hercules Goes For a Swim : Atomic Toasters
The Hudson River story dredged up crewroom banter from the 80's where someone reckoned a Herc was landed on water deliberately (during the testing phase?) with not wonderful results.
In the Training Film based upon the Test Flight....it was noted the suggested technique would be to keep the aircraft attitude level with the water instead of the Tail Low approach as filmed.
Also....most Operational B-24's had a lot of plexiglass in the nose vice the solid nose on the Test Aircraft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjadMxpXprk
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
According to test models the Nimrod could not survive a ditching. The nose would hammer down killing the flight deck crew etc.
It could and they survived.
It could and they survived.
According to test models the Nimrod could not survive a ditching. The nose would hammer down killing the flight deck crew etc.
It could and they survived.
It could and they survived.
Someone was paying attention - Art Stacey was on the same course.
The film also showed that the fuselage would break in line with the trailing edge of the wing. Seeing aerial photos of his aircraft sitting in the Moray Firth was like deju vu all over again.
I am no pilot, but if I were and if I ever had to ditch an aircraft, I would jettison the cargo, dump the fuel if possible, and land in the direction the waves were moving. I realize that having the wind at the tail would make for a higher speed relative to the water below than landing into the wind.
If you apply a bit of vector addition to your ditching problem, it turns out that, because the wave is travelling around half wind speed, you're going to hit the wave at roughly the same speed, regardless of whether you're landing into wind or downwind. However your speed relative to the water is going to be a lot lower going into wind, so that's going to be the safer option.
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Most civilian procedures seem to recommend landing along the swell, assuming you're landing at sea. Below from the A380:
The following guidelines can be used to evaluate wind speed:
A few white crests: 8 kt-17 kt
Many white crests: 17 kt-26 kt
Streaks of foam along water: 23 kt-35 kt
Spray from waves: 35 kt-43 kt.
Sea state:
This is best determined from a height of 500 ft to 1 000 ft. At lower height, the direction of the swell may be less obvious than the direction of the waves, even though the waves are much smaller.
When there is no swell, align into the wind.
In the presence of swell, and provided that drift does not exceed 10 °, ditch parallel to the swell and as nearly into the wind as possible. If drift exceeds 10 °, ditch into wind. The presence of drift on touchdown is not dangerous, but every effort should be made to minimize roll.
Touchdown with approximately 8 ° of pitch and minimum vertical speed.
The following guidelines can be used to evaluate wind speed:
A few white crests: 8 kt-17 kt
Many white crests: 17 kt-26 kt
Streaks of foam along water: 23 kt-35 kt
Spray from waves: 35 kt-43 kt.
Sea state:
This is best determined from a height of 500 ft to 1 000 ft. At lower height, the direction of the swell may be less obvious than the direction of the waves, even though the waves are much smaller.
When there is no swell, align into the wind.
In the presence of swell, and provided that drift does not exceed 10 °, ditch parallel to the swell and as nearly into the wind as possible. If drift exceeds 10 °, ditch into wind. The presence of drift on touchdown is not dangerous, but every effort should be made to minimize roll.
Touchdown with approximately 8 ° of pitch and minimum vertical speed.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Oxenos, same film, I bow to your memory. It might have been a different instructor or interpretation. Certainly I do not recall the FD impact being seen as survivable.
At least the Atlantics were survivable
Any Shacks ditch?
At least the Atlantics were survivable
Any Shacks ditch?
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 16th Jan 2017 at 18:46.
Any Shacks ditch?
If you look at ditching statistics, a very high proportion of those on board survive the impact. Some do not get out of the aircraft,and some drown, but the overall survival rate is still surprisingly high.
The Catalina night water landing was quite straightforward. Into wind if possible, set a power for stall speed plus about 3 knots and a descent of 200 fpm and wait. Daytime was to fly level just above and along the swell and slowly reduce speed to the stall. They quite frequently lost rivets and occasionally aircraft.
I feel sure that there were enough pilots from that era to influence the development of ditching techniques for the C130.
I feel sure that there were enough pilots from that era to influence the development of ditching techniques for the C130.
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The Nimrod was XW (IIRC) 666 and the nose section is in the Doncaster Aviation Museum car park.
Indeed the Pilot's Notes (ACM) ditching advice for the RAF Hercules was ALONG the swell.
Indeed the Pilot's Notes (ACM) ditching advice for the RAF Hercules was ALONG the swell.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Indeed the Pilot's Notes (ACM) ditching advice for the RAF Hercules was ALONG the swell.
Mid 1969 a USAF C130 ditched in the English Channel. The sole occupant, non aircrew, died having 'stolen ' it from Mildenhall.
I was an ATC assistant at West Drayton at the time when ADNC phoned asking for clearance for Lightnings to transit the LTMA to intercept it.
Whether they actually shot it down I don't know.
I was an ATC assistant at West Drayton at the time when ADNC phoned asking for clearance for Lightnings to transit the LTMA to intercept it.
Whether they actually shot it down I don't know.
