Pride. Its not just about being gay.
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Pride. Its not just about being gay.
As always, great shots in the Vegas thread and I'm shortly going to be reproducing one of Paul's shots without the kind permission of the owner, so thanks for that in advance Paul.
But why are we afraid to be be similarly proud? Even the word 'pride' has got more gay connotations nowadays (no - I'm not homophobic in any way, but if I was, get over it), than with being chuffed about ourselves as a nation, and proud of what we're about. It seems that despite the bullsh#t media message that we've got a lot to be proud about, we have to do it by numbers. We're just sinking into a sea of androgynous, apathetic and bland mulch. I love the fact that we're diverse, I love the idea that I can walk down lots of High Streets and hear lots of voices; as a nation we have so much to be proud about - we have offered refuge for centuries to people fleeing from persecution, we have been attractive to people to aspire to what we stand for, and we have provided refuge for sailors and Peterborough still, is littered with French names as Bonaparte PWs settled here.
I'll never forget an old Serb, surrounded by squalor, tugging at the small minging Union Flag on my smock sleeve, and saying over and over again.. 'Jimmy, Jimmy'. The interpreter told me that he sailed convoys out from Glasgow during the war and when I cut the patch off, and handed it to him, he burst into tears and actually kissed it - our flag meant that much to him. It meant more to him than it does to many of us nowadays.
My point is this (yes, I'm getting there, stick with it). I just wish that for once, we put aside pragmatism and British reserve, and painted our seasonal display jets in a similarly proud manner (with the Union Flag though, before anyone asks). I'm sure that there's some dusty Reg somewhere not allowing it, or that the money is allocated on equality training for left handed, short, lesbian, overweight illegal immigrants or there'll be some practical reason why the aeroplane is allocated to war reserve and it just wouldn't do to go to war in bright colours, but have we ever been so demonstrably proud as to do this?
This is where someone tells me that we already do this, and that I should get out to more air shows, at which point I shall hold my head in shame. But if we don't, please.. if you're the bod who can make this decision, for gods sake - just do it. Don't think about it - just do it will you? And if anyone has a go at you, give me their contact details and I'll gladly remind them who pays their salary and who employs them. Or is your name is Torpy and you're reading this, pick up the phone and 'make it happen' will you? Thanks.
But why are we afraid to be be similarly proud? Even the word 'pride' has got more gay connotations nowadays (no - I'm not homophobic in any way, but if I was, get over it), than with being chuffed about ourselves as a nation, and proud of what we're about. It seems that despite the bullsh#t media message that we've got a lot to be proud about, we have to do it by numbers. We're just sinking into a sea of androgynous, apathetic and bland mulch. I love the fact that we're diverse, I love the idea that I can walk down lots of High Streets and hear lots of voices; as a nation we have so much to be proud about - we have offered refuge for centuries to people fleeing from persecution, we have been attractive to people to aspire to what we stand for, and we have provided refuge for sailors and Peterborough still, is littered with French names as Bonaparte PWs settled here.
I'll never forget an old Serb, surrounded by squalor, tugging at the small minging Union Flag on my smock sleeve, and saying over and over again.. 'Jimmy, Jimmy'. The interpreter told me that he sailed convoys out from Glasgow during the war and when I cut the patch off, and handed it to him, he burst into tears and actually kissed it - our flag meant that much to him. It meant more to him than it does to many of us nowadays.
My point is this (yes, I'm getting there, stick with it). I just wish that for once, we put aside pragmatism and British reserve, and painted our seasonal display jets in a similarly proud manner (with the Union Flag though, before anyone asks). I'm sure that there's some dusty Reg somewhere not allowing it, or that the money is allocated on equality training for left handed, short, lesbian, overweight illegal immigrants or there'll be some practical reason why the aeroplane is allocated to war reserve and it just wouldn't do to go to war in bright colours, but have we ever been so demonstrably proud as to do this?
This is where someone tells me that we already do this, and that I should get out to more air shows, at which point I shall hold my head in shame. But if we don't, please.. if you're the bod who can make this decision, for gods sake - just do it. Don't think about it - just do it will you? And if anyone has a go at you, give me their contact details and I'll gladly remind them who pays their salary and who employs them. Or is your name is Torpy and you're reading this, pick up the phone and 'make it happen' will you? Thanks.
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Effortless,
You're looking at it from the wrong perspective, its not an issue of insecurity, more an excuse for apathy. Don't look at it as if Typhoon (for instance) is a military chattel, look on it as what it is - something funded by the country and to be used for the collective good of the country. God knows, we're proud enough.. but is everyone else, and can we look at this from another angle to do some good?
If we are so secure about ourselves, why do we currently have the situation of.. a Vulcan, one of the greatest aeroplanes made, in the hands of enthusiasts, consigned to a future of uncertainty? If we are so secure about ourselves, why do we have troops changing on the pan at Birmingham and why do we have to fight like f#ck to get a house set aside for rehabilitating troops at Headley? Something which the g'ment should be doing.
The people who would see this are the people who might not be as alligned to our way of thinking.. we, by definition, are 'proud', but is everyone else? A young dissaffected lad, gazing upwards from some deprived area, seeing a Typhoon streak overhead resplendant with a Union Flag could excite god only knows what connection with a bright future and this country. A crowd having a symbol placed before them of something as cutting edge and being British might mean the difference between our injured troops not being jeered at in the baths in Epsom or Leatherhead.
No, it has nothing to do with being secure.. we can be secure all day long in our own little worlds. It has everything to do with grabbing the initiative and being secure enough to say 'F#ck it, if you're not proud to be British simply because you hate what Tony Blair did, then look at this as an example of what we can do, and you should be.'. I would love to see a photoshop mock up of Typhoon like this. We have the Red Arrows as a symbol of military excellence, so why not have Typhoon as a symbol of what we're all about.
(Yes, I know its European, but lets overlook that for now..)
You're looking at it from the wrong perspective, its not an issue of insecurity, more an excuse for apathy. Don't look at it as if Typhoon (for instance) is a military chattel, look on it as what it is - something funded by the country and to be used for the collective good of the country. God knows, we're proud enough.. but is everyone else, and can we look at this from another angle to do some good?
If we are so secure about ourselves, why do we currently have the situation of.. a Vulcan, one of the greatest aeroplanes made, in the hands of enthusiasts, consigned to a future of uncertainty? If we are so secure about ourselves, why do we have troops changing on the pan at Birmingham and why do we have to fight like f#ck to get a house set aside for rehabilitating troops at Headley? Something which the g'ment should be doing.
The people who would see this are the people who might not be as alligned to our way of thinking.. we, by definition, are 'proud', but is everyone else? A young dissaffected lad, gazing upwards from some deprived area, seeing a Typhoon streak overhead resplendant with a Union Flag could excite god only knows what connection with a bright future and this country. A crowd having a symbol placed before them of something as cutting edge and being British might mean the difference between our injured troops not being jeered at in the baths in Epsom or Leatherhead.
No, it has nothing to do with being secure.. we can be secure all day long in our own little worlds. It has everything to do with grabbing the initiative and being secure enough to say 'F#ck it, if you're not proud to be British simply because you hate what Tony Blair did, then look at this as an example of what we can do, and you should be.'. I would love to see a photoshop mock up of Typhoon like this. We have the Red Arrows as a symbol of military excellence, so why not have Typhoon as a symbol of what we're all about.
(Yes, I know its European, but lets overlook that for now..)
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Tonker,
When you say 'camp' and being 'confused'..?
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/ate/mentalhealth/205008.html
( Dear God, I hope someone doesn't check what I've been googling for, and finds 'confused about sexuality'.
)
When you say 'camp' and being 'confused'..?
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/ate/mentalhealth/205008.html
( Dear God, I hope someone doesn't check what I've been googling for, and finds 'confused about sexuality'.
)
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Al R
What I don't want to see is the Union Flag draped over everything and our nice little aircraft pimped up like the one in your piccy. I am often asked by my spam associates if I'm not proud to be British. I can't really answer as I don't really understand what that means. I am glad to be British but I am less happy with the way it is run and has been run for the last forty odd years. I support our chaps in as many ways as I am able. I drink with them when they grieve their mates and support their families when they don't come back themselves. In the way of old farts the world over, I wish I could go with them when they march out. I regret that my own military service was cut short. I abhor some of the jobs that they have been asked to do.
My family has donated the life of at least one of its children from each generation since the Afghan Campaign in 1878. Is this something to be proud of? I think that they did right by themselves and our country but I wonder if we did what we did for the greater good. We served because we wanted to serve. We liked to be part of that military family and I for one was desperate to fly.
Upon consideration, I think that I am proud to be British, I am proud that we do not need to wrap ourselves in the flag. I am proud that our anthem is a little bit boring. I am also proud that I can sit back and let other nations get the limelight while we quietly get on with the job as best we can. I am also proud that we can sometimes admit that we were wrong.
What I don't want to see is the Union Flag draped over everything and our nice little aircraft pimped up like the one in your piccy. I am often asked by my spam associates if I'm not proud to be British. I can't really answer as I don't really understand what that means. I am glad to be British but I am less happy with the way it is run and has been run for the last forty odd years. I support our chaps in as many ways as I am able. I drink with them when they grieve their mates and support their families when they don't come back themselves. In the way of old farts the world over, I wish I could go with them when they march out. I regret that my own military service was cut short. I abhor some of the jobs that they have been asked to do.
My family has donated the life of at least one of its children from each generation since the Afghan Campaign in 1878. Is this something to be proud of? I think that they did right by themselves and our country but I wonder if we did what we did for the greater good. We served because we wanted to serve. We liked to be part of that military family and I for one was desperate to fly.
Upon consideration, I think that I am proud to be British, I am proud that we do not need to wrap ourselves in the flag. I am proud that our anthem is a little bit boring. I am also proud that I can sit back and let other nations get the limelight while we quietly get on with the job as best we can. I am also proud that we can sometimes admit that we were wrong.
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Throwing caution to the winds- I think I understand what Al R is talking about and to a degree agree with him. What I see in the majority of posts on this thread however is apathy. You are primarily arguing that you can't be bothered to raise the profile of the Services or the country.
The quote about letting others take the limelight is based upon a false modesty, which can only be achieved when ones country is at the centre of an empire on which the sun never sets. People got on with the job quietly then in the knowledge that we could say 'look at me like that again and I'll black your eye!' Otherwise lets just hide in a corner and remember the days when we had something to be proud of. On the whole I like Americans and I respect the pride they have in their flag. In many ways they are today as respectul of their country and its institutions as Britons were a hundred years ago. Now we are uncomfortable with that and try to appear sophisticated by laughing at ourselves. Really all we do is indoctrinate a sense of guilt and failure, compounded by being very poor relations trying to sit at the big table.
The quote about letting others take the limelight is based upon a false modesty, which can only be achieved when ones country is at the centre of an empire on which the sun never sets. People got on with the job quietly then in the knowledge that we could say 'look at me like that again and I'll black your eye!' Otherwise lets just hide in a corner and remember the days when we had something to be proud of. On the whole I like Americans and I respect the pride they have in their flag. In many ways they are today as respectul of their country and its institutions as Britons were a hundred years ago. Now we are uncomfortable with that and try to appear sophisticated by laughing at ourselves. Really all we do is indoctrinate a sense of guilt and failure, compounded by being very poor relations trying to sit at the big table.
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Kitbag is spot on with his post.
I'm slightly envious of the way that the yanks respect their flag and the whole Stars and Stripes thing that they have going on.
Let's kick the arse out of it and paint up a Spitfire Mk9 in the Union Jack and have it piloted by some chap called John Smith and fly it up and down the Thames and pretty much everywhere else for that matter.
Nahh, maybe just the tail fin of a Eurofighter, oh and force BA to repaint their jets at the same time.
I'm slightly envious of the way that the yanks respect their flag and the whole Stars and Stripes thing that they have going on.
Let's kick the arse out of it and paint up a Spitfire Mk9 in the Union Jack and have it piloted by some chap called John Smith and fly it up and down the Thames and pretty much everywhere else for that matter.
Nahh, maybe just the tail fin of a Eurofighter, oh and force BA to repaint their jets at the same time.
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But my dearest Dan, can the defence budget stretch enough to afford the tin of paint?
S'pose it would be cheaper than the three tins required to paint it red, white and blue.
S'pose it would be cheaper than the three tins required to paint it red, white and blue.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
One of the keys to being good at what you do, is to know that you are good at what you do. False modesty is a very British thing where it is viewed as unseemly to acknowledge that you or your unit or organization are generally better than most peope at doing the job in hand. Knowing you are good at something incentivizes most people to uphold that reputation and encourage others to perform to the highest standards. Pride comes from protecting that position, and serving in HM Armed Forces is one of the last professions where pride is actively encouraged (it used to be anyway).