Just how high do these things go
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it appeared to climb at a 45 degree angle. Very impressive!
Just in case someone hasn't seen this already
U-2 Dragon Lady: Landings - YouTube
nothing matters very much, most things don't matter at all
U-2 Dragon Lady: Landings - YouTube
nothing matters very much, most things don't matter at all
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Originally Posted by Tartare
The thing I find fascinating about the U2 is how close to coffin corner it cruises.
Just a big jet powered glider really, flying in the thinnest of air, right on the stall for hours on end.
Just a big jet powered glider really, flying in the thinnest of air, right on the stall for hours on end.
I read the margin between VNE and stall speed was only 10 knots. But had a glide ratio of 23:1.
Lightning Mate,
that doesn't appear to be a full pressure suit you are wearing - just the helmet?
What altitude was that kit rated to - I assume a dash up to FL65?
But then how come you don't need a full pressure suit-that's right on the Armstrong limit.
I assume you've zoomed up there, might be at that height long enough to take a shot then descend?
I've read the stories about Lightnings bouncing U2s on the way down by the way...
that doesn't appear to be a full pressure suit you are wearing - just the helmet?
What altitude was that kit rated to - I assume a dash up to FL65?
But then how come you don't need a full pressure suit-that's right on the Armstrong limit.
I assume you've zoomed up there, might be at that height long enough to take a shot then descend?
I've read the stories about Lightnings bouncing U2s on the way down by the way...
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Here's a thing that interested me. Apologies if you already know this. David Clark, maker of fine headsets, G suits and pressure suits for airmen and astronauts etc started off as a brassiere manufacturer. During WWII their expertise in woven elasticated garments led them to being asked by the US gov to develop a G suit for fighter jocks, which they did. The rest as they say, is history.
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Tartare
The garment is the partial pressure jerkin that some Vulcan operations required (e.g. above FL500 for sustained periods carrying out atmospheric sampling); I would guess that for this pilot the PPJ/G-pants combo would be sufficient to cover short high altitude ops. SB - 65K rings a bell, but not a realistic option for the V (580ish is the max I experienced, but it probably depends on the airframe).
Mister B
The garment is the partial pressure jerkin that some Vulcan operations required (e.g. above FL500 for sustained periods carrying out atmospheric sampling); I would guess that for this pilot the PPJ/G-pants combo would be sufficient to cover short high altitude ops. SB - 65K rings a bell, but not a realistic option for the V (580ish is the max I experienced, but it probably depends on the airframe).
Mister B
Last edited by HTB; 9th Apr 2014 at 11:47. Reason: spolling
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The 'official' Lightning operating altitude limit was 56,000ft and the Partial Pressure Assembly was cleared to that altitude. The basic assembly comprised:
Helmet and oro-nasal mask
Partial Pressure Jerkin
Internal anti-G trousers
Obviously, a Breathing Gas Regulator with the necessary Positive Pressure Breathing delivery performance (70mmHg) was also required.
The Taylor Helmet was never issued to all. One of its functions was to reduce neck distension during positive pressure breathing, which can be quite visually dramatic. However, the Helmet had a 'soft' construction at the rear, so precious little head protection from a head-box impact during ejection. Eventually, it gently 'faded away' since a correctly fitted and adjusted, standard helmet and P/Q oro-nasal mask was adequate for the rapid decompression pressure breathing requirement.
The efficacy of the Partial Pressure Assembly above 56K ft falls away quite quickly, plus the issue of ebullism (body fluids 'boiling') becomes a major factor. Hence, a Full Pressure Assembly is sensibly required for acceptable decompression protection once routine operations at altitudes greater than 60K ft are intended.
The confidence most Lightning pilots placed in the aircraft pressurisation system as they punched up to altitudes above 60K ft - without even a Partial Pressure Assembly - was well founded as I cannot recall any failures. However, had there been a rapid decompression at those altitudes, unconsciousness could have occurred in seconds and the effect of 70mmHg of positive pressure breathing on lungs lacking any counter-pressure would not have been beneficial!
lm
Helmet and oro-nasal mask
Partial Pressure Jerkin
Internal anti-G trousers
Obviously, a Breathing Gas Regulator with the necessary Positive Pressure Breathing delivery performance (70mmHg) was also required.
The Taylor Helmet was never issued to all. One of its functions was to reduce neck distension during positive pressure breathing, which can be quite visually dramatic. However, the Helmet had a 'soft' construction at the rear, so precious little head protection from a head-box impact during ejection. Eventually, it gently 'faded away' since a correctly fitted and adjusted, standard helmet and P/Q oro-nasal mask was adequate for the rapid decompression pressure breathing requirement.
The efficacy of the Partial Pressure Assembly above 56K ft falls away quite quickly, plus the issue of ebullism (body fluids 'boiling') becomes a major factor. Hence, a Full Pressure Assembly is sensibly required for acceptable decompression protection once routine operations at altitudes greater than 60K ft are intended.
The confidence most Lightning pilots placed in the aircraft pressurisation system as they punched up to altitudes above 60K ft - without even a Partial Pressure Assembly - was well founded as I cannot recall any failures. However, had there been a rapid decompression at those altitudes, unconsciousness could have occurred in seconds and the effect of 70mmHg of positive pressure breathing on lungs lacking any counter-pressure would not have been beneficial!
lm
Last edited by lightningmate; 9th Apr 2014 at 13:05.
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lm,
Fascinating. What was the highest ejection from a Lightning? Presumably if the jet failed, you would want to stay with it for as long as possible until you got into a kinder environment?
I remember being on Bacon Grill Hill when Charlie Chan ejected at Akrotiri.. rather more low level.
Fascinating. What was the highest ejection from a Lightning? Presumably if the jet failed, you would want to stay with it for as long as possible until you got into a kinder environment?
I remember being on Bacon Grill Hill when Charlie Chan ejected at Akrotiri.. rather more low level.
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During WWII their expertise in woven elasticated garments led them to being asked by the US gov to develop a G suit for fighter jocks, which they did. The rest as they say, is history.
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Al R,
Regret I cannot answer that one with any degree of accuracy. I certainly cannot recall any ejections within the highest altitudes and, statistically, I am sure the vast majority of all ejections occur at low altitudes.
Moreover, the time spent at the higher altitudes by Lightnings would be a very small number against the overall time that was clocked up by the fleet during its flying life. Hence, the risk of a high altitude ejection would be low. Unfortunately http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/ has not yet indexed Lightning ejections, so a quick check is not possible. An educated guess only, none above 50K ft and very few above 40K ft.
As you say, given the choice, sensible aircrew would stay with their aircraft hoping to achieve optimum ejection parameters before opting for a kick up the backside.
lm
Regret I cannot answer that one with any degree of accuracy. I certainly cannot recall any ejections within the highest altitudes and, statistically, I am sure the vast majority of all ejections occur at low altitudes.
Moreover, the time spent at the higher altitudes by Lightnings would be a very small number against the overall time that was clocked up by the fleet during its flying life. Hence, the risk of a high altitude ejection would be low. Unfortunately http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/ has not yet indexed Lightning ejections, so a quick check is not possible. An educated guess only, none above 50K ft and very few above 40K ft.
As you say, given the choice, sensible aircrew would stay with their aircraft hoping to achieve optimum ejection parameters before opting for a kick up the backside.
lm
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One might say Clark's kept abreast of things then!
.The highest RAF ejection was 56K in a Canberra. The highest (and fastest) ejection was at an incredible M3.25 and 80K in an SR71 variant. The pilot survived, his WSO didn't.
John Roome certainly got a Lighning up to 88K in SE Asia once.
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Thing,
As I recall the SR-71 was not an exit by an Ejection Seat but was an ejection of the Seats and Occupants following the aircraft going unstable following an engine failure and breaking up.
At least one event like that occurred although there were other "normal" Ejections where the Crew survived.
The WSO suffered a broken Neck during the break-up.
The Pilot was picked up by a Rancher flying a Bell 47 which he reckoned was the scariest part of the Day.
As I recall the SR-71 was not an exit by an Ejection Seat but was an ejection of the Seats and Occupants following the aircraft going unstable following an engine failure and breaking up.
At least one event like that occurred although there were other "normal" Ejections where the Crew survived.
The WSO suffered a broken Neck during the break-up.
The Pilot was picked up by a Rancher flying a Bell 47 which he reckoned was the scariest part of the Day.
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Could we help?
Thinking about the original post.
Nav and me were coming back from the West Country, passing through the Oxford - Cambridge corridor at FL200. We were with London Mil who asked us if we could help a TR1 pilot who was suffering from a partial oxygen failure, felt unwell, and had asked for shepherding assistance back to Alconbury.
We asked for a steer to go and pick him up. London Mil replied 'In your 10 o'clock, range 15, and descending through FL660'. We said we would do our best!
We eventually picked him up at FL450, and took him back.
Nav and me were coming back from the West Country, passing through the Oxford - Cambridge corridor at FL200. We were with London Mil who asked us if we could help a TR1 pilot who was suffering from a partial oxygen failure, felt unwell, and had asked for shepherding assistance back to Alconbury.
We asked for a steer to go and pick him up. London Mil replied 'In your 10 o'clock, range 15, and descending through FL660'. We said we would do our best!
We eventually picked him up at FL450, and took him back.
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As I recall the SR-71 was not an exit by an Ejection Seat but was an ejection of the Seats and Occupants following the aircraft going unstable following an engine failure and breaking up.
Only a couple of years until the 50th anniversary of that accident.
Mach 3.2, 100K' altitude, Russian titanium, first flew (in A-12 guise) in '62. Remarkable aeroplane.
http://www.barthworks.com/aviation/sr71breakup.htm
Last edited by Willard Whyte; 9th Apr 2014 at 22:00.