I.E.D's A solution ?
I often wondered as a lot of the explosives used are "cooked" from Fertiliser, why, as they did in Ireland during the troubles, do they simply not make fertilisers with a high nitrate content illegal? there by reducing amount of potential explosive available.
However it was also mentioned that they raided a huge warehouse full of the stuff and the assumption is there are still huge stockpiles.
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Tonker. You are so right. The arm forces are the FCO's option of last resort. We need to re-think our standing in the world first then complete SDR. Our position as a world banking/ finance centre has been mortally compromised and our social services and health services are bankrupting us.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
If you simply google mine clearance vehicles you get links such as this:
HowStuffWorks "Mine Clearing Machines"
there is even a Jane's
Jane's Mines and Mine Clearance
HowStuffWorks "Mine Clearing Machines"
there is even a Jane's
Jane's Mines and Mine Clearance
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Is this an official joke thread?
Let me see, foot patrols wearing snowshoes - so the bad guy pops up, lets off a few rounds, then scoots off chortling in his Adidas flip flops while the foot patrol waddle after him... Hovercraft, flail tanks turning every road surface into a goat track, vehicles with wheels on the end of legs (you'd be able to drive that down any standard motorway sized road then - might not fit through the middle of a village though). Meanwhile GPS and Mobile phones go off the air, while Johnny Afghan wonders why his TV switches to Postman Pat whenever a landy goes past.
My guess is the next big idea will turn out to be an unintentional rip off from Thunderbirds, perhaps using the Mole?
I think I've figured out why nobody seems to be using Pprune as a think tank....
Let me see, foot patrols wearing snowshoes - so the bad guy pops up, lets off a few rounds, then scoots off chortling in his Adidas flip flops while the foot patrol waddle after him... Hovercraft, flail tanks turning every road surface into a goat track, vehicles with wheels on the end of legs (you'd be able to drive that down any standard motorway sized road then - might not fit through the middle of a village though). Meanwhile GPS and Mobile phones go off the air, while Johnny Afghan wonders why his TV switches to Postman Pat whenever a landy goes past.
My guess is the next big idea will turn out to be an unintentional rip off from Thunderbirds, perhaps using the Mole?
I think I've figured out why nobody seems to be using Pprune as a think tank....
Tonker. You are so right. The arm forces are the FCO's option of last resort. We need to re-think our standing in the world first then complete SDR. Our position as a world banking/ finance centre has been mortally compromised and our social services and health services are bankrupting us.
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Thanks for the input ,the flail idea was bugging me so had to put in here to get feedback as I am fed up seeing our personnel getting killed by IED's,and seeing them arrive at Lyneham in C-17's.( I am a civilian but from an RAF childhood and 1,200 hours instructing with an ATC Gliding School)
Yes we must all be careful posting on here as the nasties may be reading but amazed at the thoughtful discussion it has generated. Davejb this is not a wind up have you tried looking at the MoD website to make a suggestion ?
Yes we must all be careful posting on here as the nasties may be reading but amazed at the thoughtful discussion it has generated. Davejb this is not a wind up have you tried looking at the MoD website to make a suggestion ?
Surely the best way would be to eliminate the people as they plant them. A week of intense observation of an area by whatever assets we have - anyone digging a hole after dark is unlikely to be doing a bit of overtime filling in potholes for the council. After a few nights when Terry doesn't come back, there might be a shortage of volunteers to take his place.
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Would heat detection find these devices ? i.e carry out a heat detection survey before moving troops over the area.
Regarding GPS shut down we could always revert to astro/sun navigation using the sextant.
Regarding GPS shut down we could always revert to astro/sun navigation using the sextant.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Tonker,
Congratulations, you definitely win the prize for the most comprehensive understanding of the "Cause and Effect" principle. Well done, however unpopular that view may be...
How about staying at home and minding our own business!
We are a small bankrupt island off Europe, not the worlds policeman. Not even a community policeman or traffic Womble. Accepting it and moving on will probably defeat the root causes of terrorism a load more than the recruitment campaign for nutters that is Afghanistan/Iraq.
We are a small bankrupt island off Europe, not the worlds policeman. Not even a community policeman or traffic Womble. Accepting it and moving on will probably defeat the root causes of terrorism a load more than the recruitment campaign for nutters that is Afghanistan/Iraq.
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Significant informed effort is being expended in this area
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Predictably, I see some pompous drivel appearing about cause and effect! So 9/11 happened because we invaded Afghanistan right? No wait...Iraq? No...hang on, er....
Back on topic....I accept that sometimes it's the crazy ideas that have merit....but seriously guys/girls, have a think through the second order consequences of some of these suggestions!
Running around in a firefight, in the desert, in snowshoes?! Hello?
Crippling the economy of the entire country by bombing the roads back to dirt tracks? Genius!
But it’s ok because we will airdrop supplies to the civilians that we isolate! Have a think about how much food you need in a month. Multiply x people in a town/village. How much airdrop capacity do you think that requires?
Have a look at a map too. Afghanistan is HUGE.
And what would you think if outsiders came and bombed your local roads...presumably on a daily basis because it would not take long to plant new IEDs in the resultant dirt tracks (and they would then be harder to spot).
We’re trying to SAVE the population of Afghanistan – not actively turn them against us!
That means that we need to stand alongside them, put our troops in harms way alongside them, and demonstrate that we are better than the Taliban (and the many other tribal groups that have crime, narcotics and corrupt control on their agenda that are lumped in with the Taliban), that we will stand by our word, that we will act fairly and honestly and that we can bring a better future to pass.
And we can. Ask the troops on the ground. To quote a young Captain I saw interviewed, ‘We do not want our public’s sympathy because sympathy is for losers – and we’re not losing. We just want their support!’
Staying this course, even with the daily horror of casualties, is more likely to succeed that retreating into our bases, becoming isolated from the population and becoming stuck in a long, drawn out conflict with even more casualties over time.
I’m with dave...a well meaning thread perhaps but comical bordering upon dangerous.
CK out.
Back on topic....I accept that sometimes it's the crazy ideas that have merit....but seriously guys/girls, have a think through the second order consequences of some of these suggestions!
Running around in a firefight, in the desert, in snowshoes?! Hello?
Crippling the economy of the entire country by bombing the roads back to dirt tracks? Genius!
But it’s ok because we will airdrop supplies to the civilians that we isolate! Have a think about how much food you need in a month. Multiply x people in a town/village. How much airdrop capacity do you think that requires?
Have a look at a map too. Afghanistan is HUGE.
And what would you think if outsiders came and bombed your local roads...presumably on a daily basis because it would not take long to plant new IEDs in the resultant dirt tracks (and they would then be harder to spot).
We’re trying to SAVE the population of Afghanistan – not actively turn them against us!
That means that we need to stand alongside them, put our troops in harms way alongside them, and demonstrate that we are better than the Taliban (and the many other tribal groups that have crime, narcotics and corrupt control on their agenda that are lumped in with the Taliban), that we will stand by our word, that we will act fairly and honestly and that we can bring a better future to pass.
And we can. Ask the troops on the ground. To quote a young Captain I saw interviewed, ‘We do not want our public’s sympathy because sympathy is for losers – and we’re not losing. We just want their support!’
Staying this course, even with the daily horror of casualties, is more likely to succeed that retreating into our bases, becoming isolated from the population and becoming stuck in a long, drawn out conflict with even more casualties over time.
I’m with dave...a well meaning thread perhaps but comical bordering upon dangerous.
CK out.
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Predictably, I see some pompous drivel appearing about cause and effect! So 9/11 happened because we invaded Afghanistan right? No wait...Iraq? No...hang on, er....
Some interesting vehicles there and this is the type of thinking required.
My 2 suggestions:
Hard pave all the roads, thereby making it very difficult to emplace devices.
Make all Local nationals wear Lycra, thereby making it far easier to spot suicide bombers.
Is that good thinking?
Sometimes ideas that seem odd turn out to work, sometimes being allowed to think them without being scorned leads to other more practical ideas.
I have often been amazed at how various things I think would never work do and make the people who did them rich.
I would guess that a lot of effort is being put in to all this officially though people "on the outside" sometimes have an unusual and useful perspective. Even with 60 million people it is still possible for an individual to have unique skills or insight in Britain.
The real proof of this stuff is if you were prepared to go out in your inflatable shoes and walk over IEDs yourself. If you're prepared to put your life on the line for your own idea then perhaps people should say "good for you and good luck." From a distance. :-)
I have often been amazed at how various things I think would never work do and make the people who did them rich.
I would guess that a lot of effort is being put in to all this officially though people "on the outside" sometimes have an unusual and useful perspective. Even with 60 million people it is still possible for an individual to have unique skills or insight in Britain.
The real proof of this stuff is if you were prepared to go out in your inflatable shoes and walk over IEDs yourself. If you're prepared to put your life on the line for your own idea then perhaps people should say "good for you and good luck." From a distance. :-)
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The real proof of this stuff is if you were prepared to go out in your inflatable shoes and walk over IEDs yourself.
It helps to remember that whilst outlandish ideas sometimes work, usually they don't - it is a common misconception that because 'daft' ideas sometimes pan out that all daft ideas have merit... if this thread were actually intended to generate good ideas for use in Afghanistan then posters might do well to remember a couple of basic 'rules' of the game -
such as
1) We are ostensibly there to support a democratic government, with the overal aim (I presume) of making the Afghan government strong enough to maintain internal security without further support.
2) We are not there to punish the locals, to strip their country of assets, or to damage the Afghan infrastructure (such as it is).
3) They are not an enemy nation that we have conquered, we aren't intentionally in there to kill everyone who looks at us funny.
Consequently good ideas shouldn't involve indiscriminate slaughter of anyone holding a spade, or turning the road network into an allotment.
Midnight Pothole Repairs?
Dave,
Your comment.....
How many folks repair potholes in the middle of the night in Afghanistan?
Evidently you do not appreciate the length the Coalition Forces go to in confirming "hostile intent" before taking action. The mere holding of a Spade does not warrant a hostile action.....holding one while emplacing an IED does....carrying a Spade in hand as one leaves the site where one has just emplaced an IED qualifies as well.
Should it not?
Your comment.....
Consequently good ideas shouldn't involve indiscriminate slaughter of anyone holding a spade, or turning the road network into an allotment.
Evidently you do not appreciate the length the Coalition Forces go to in confirming "hostile intent" before taking action. The mere holding of a Spade does not warrant a hostile action.....holding one while emplacing an IED does....carrying a Spade in hand as one leaves the site where one has just emplaced an IED qualifies as well.
Should it not?
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AfricanCrisis&
Well there you go DaveJB, exactly what I meant, wheels remote from the body pod and the body shaped to deflect the blast AND IT WORKS.......... Call me old fashioned, but I cannot see the logic of putting the driver directly over the wheels unless you are hoping to use the axle as extra protection,
I also cannot understand why we over complicate military vehicles these days what with fuel computers and those for the drive train...... So it may meet UK emission requirements etc, but in the field you need something that can be repaired locally using the basic of tools, I work on piston Aero Engines amongst other things that can loose a cylinder and will still run, indeed they can and have got people across the channel and to an Airport, they can have a cylinder replaced in a couple of hours with a few basic spanners..... Bar the landrover most of the new stuff appears to have lost that simplicity of repair.
The image of a column of £1,000,000 vehicles being lead down a road by a man walking with a metal detector sums up why what i suggested (and appears to have been successfully developed) is needed.
You seem to think just because we mention something then we are talking about using them in built up areas, far from it, when you see some of the paths these guys have to clear up observation hills etc the facility to simply go through all the radio frequencies to detonate one radio controlled IED and save the life of one person would make the whole idea worthwhile. Also I seem to remember the UK they were developing a localised mobile phone jammer to nullify their usage in certain buildings, but then scanning the phone frequencies with the first suggestion would be a possibility.
Well there you go DaveJB, exactly what I meant, wheels remote from the body pod and the body shaped to deflect the blast AND IT WORKS.......... Call me old fashioned, but I cannot see the logic of putting the driver directly over the wheels unless you are hoping to use the axle as extra protection,
I also cannot understand why we over complicate military vehicles these days what with fuel computers and those for the drive train...... So it may meet UK emission requirements etc, but in the field you need something that can be repaired locally using the basic of tools, I work on piston Aero Engines amongst other things that can loose a cylinder and will still run, indeed they can and have got people across the channel and to an Airport, they can have a cylinder replaced in a couple of hours with a few basic spanners..... Bar the landrover most of the new stuff appears to have lost that simplicity of repair.
The image of a column of £1,000,000 vehicles being lead down a road by a man walking with a metal detector sums up why what i suggested (and appears to have been successfully developed) is needed.
You seem to think just because we mention something then we are talking about using them in built up areas, far from it, when you see some of the paths these guys have to clear up observation hills etc the facility to simply go through all the radio frequencies to detonate one radio controlled IED and save the life of one person would make the whole idea worthwhile. Also I seem to remember the UK they were developing a localised mobile phone jammer to nullify their usage in certain buildings, but then scanning the phone frequencies with the first suggestion would be a possibility.
Last edited by NutLoose; 6th Feb 2010 at 20:08.