End of FY2016-17
A major roadshow campaign has just completed trying to get more pilots.
Not completed.
Australia and NZ throughout April.
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Oh I wouldn't worry about the trainers...most of the experienced ones have left or are leaving. The new ones (the pay per duty chaps whose rosters will be rightly screwed by the company to save a penny or two) won't even know what a bad standard is.
All good in the bouncy castle as the entire trainer workforce slowly moves to pay-per-duty.
All good in the bouncy castle as the entire trainer workforce slowly moves to pay-per-duty.
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I know it's a rumour forum but sometimes it gets ridiculous. Like the Captain recently fired for offloading a VIP with 'wasta' who made a comment about a bomb on board. Funny when you ask that nobody can name him! Perhaps one to put to bed.
As for this turboprop nonsense, apart from a few exceptions, the majority are doing ok and have a very high standard of handling. They're young, keen and absorb the procedures and SOP's easily enough. The biggest issues they're encountering are energy management and route familiarisation, which is why they're getting more training sectors than previously. Most of us managed the transition okay, why should these guys and girls be different? Maybe time for some of us prima donnas to dismount from our high horses.
The only concern would indeed be the experience level of the trainers but despite losing some good guys, there are equally good and younger guys to replace them. What contract they're on is immaterial. In fact, I'm actually pleased to see the back of some of our training dinosaurs. Most were great and are a genuine loss to the department and to maintaining common sense and airmanship within the airline. A minority, however, were archaic, subjective and did no training. They checked to their own technique and beliefs. They offered no practical advice and merely followed SOP's to the letter. There was no flexibility. In their eyes, resilience and airmanship were alien terms used only in CRM classrooms and had no practical application within a simulator or aircraft. They did not encourage F/O's to 'think outside the box'. They penalised them for not learning calls by rote and for not following SOP's blindly.
They, will not be missed.
Harry
As for this turboprop nonsense, apart from a few exceptions, the majority are doing ok and have a very high standard of handling. They're young, keen and absorb the procedures and SOP's easily enough. The biggest issues they're encountering are energy management and route familiarisation, which is why they're getting more training sectors than previously. Most of us managed the transition okay, why should these guys and girls be different? Maybe time for some of us prima donnas to dismount from our high horses.
The only concern would indeed be the experience level of the trainers but despite losing some good guys, there are equally good and younger guys to replace them. What contract they're on is immaterial. In fact, I'm actually pleased to see the back of some of our training dinosaurs. Most were great and are a genuine loss to the department and to maintaining common sense and airmanship within the airline. A minority, however, were archaic, subjective and did no training. They checked to their own technique and beliefs. They offered no practical advice and merely followed SOP's to the letter. There was no flexibility. In their eyes, resilience and airmanship were alien terms used only in CRM classrooms and had no practical application within a simulator or aircraft. They did not encourage F/O's to 'think outside the box'. They penalised them for not learning calls by rote and for not following SOP's blindly.
They, will not be missed.
Harry
Last edited by harry the cod; 2nd Apr 2017 at 18:25.
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Then as an addition to my post, I'd agree, it is sad to see.
I would love to know the details behind such a decision and whether the individual feels it's worth fighting. Captains, while ultimately responsible, still have to justify those decisions and it would be nice to hear the background to this event. If an individual mentions he had explosives, regardless of his status, he or she should be offloaded. Can't see any security personal or law enforcement body excepting such a blaze comment, so why should we? We don't know all the facts to this, obviously, but we should.
Not knowing could have serious safety and security implications for future similar decisions required by the Commander, knowing in the back of his/her mind that they may get demoted or fired if it's the wrong 'individual'.
Harry
I would love to know the details behind such a decision and whether the individual feels it's worth fighting. Captains, while ultimately responsible, still have to justify those decisions and it would be nice to hear the background to this event. If an individual mentions he had explosives, regardless of his status, he or she should be offloaded. Can't see any security personal or law enforcement body excepting such a blaze comment, so why should we? We don't know all the facts to this, obviously, but we should.
Not knowing could have serious safety and security implications for future similar decisions required by the Commander, knowing in the back of his/her mind that they may get demoted or fired if it's the wrong 'individual'.
Harry
Last edited by harry the cod; 2nd Apr 2017 at 19:42.
Your mate JA explained to said demoted Capt that EK doesn't follow a particular international convention Harry. If only he had taken the time to review what is taught on NAC course. The whole matter is disgusting. Hats off to the demoted Captain involved. His actions and attitude has been exemplary. If something goes wrong here you are on your own. None of the office wallies will help.
All true I'm afraid Harry , and he did fight it , you must surely begin to realize that you as commander can be out wastad by a friend of a friend in these parts , sad and pathetic but true . As for the young , keen and able new trainers who do you think trains them ? yes it's the old hands who are slowly leaving the ship
All true I'm afraid Harry , and he did fight it , you must surely begin to realize that you as commander can be out wastad by a friend of a friend in these parts , sad and pathetic but true . As for the young , keen and able new trainers who do you think trains them ? That's right .. the very experienced instructors who are sadly departing for various reasons and then what ?
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Your mate JA explained to said demoted Capt that EK doesn't follow a particular international convention Harry. If only he had taken the time to review what is taught on NAC course. The whole matter is disgusting. Hats off to the demoted Captain involved. His actions and attitude has been exemplary. If something goes wrong here you are on your own. None of the office wallies will help.
I hope the guys answering their phones and coming in on days off - read this thread and understand the way things work - and think long and hard about doing favors for a Co that downgrades an experienced Capt as a result of wasta.
Last edited by fliion; 2nd Apr 2017 at 19:33.
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Jack D
In fairness, I did say that numpties were in the minority. I standby the statement that the overall majority are good and deserve a bloody medal for the hours they're doing. There has been some effort to weed out the undesirables over the last 5 years or so but unfortunately, some still remain. As they do in every airline.
Planning is a mess. One minute we're short, the next they're de activating 50 trainers on the 380 each and every month. Ridiculous.
Don, sent you a PM.
Harry
In fairness, I did say that numpties were in the minority. I standby the statement that the overall majority are good and deserve a bloody medal for the hours they're doing. There has been some effort to weed out the undesirables over the last 5 years or so but unfortunately, some still remain. As they do in every airline.
Planning is a mess. One minute we're short, the next they're de activating 50 trainers on the 380 each and every month. Ridiculous.
Don, sent you a PM.
Harry
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heard from reliable source that indeed a skipper got demoted, after a dishdash i/o was offloaded. To anyone who has the complete story: Please share with us line-guys what happened. This site is a thousand times more useful than the weekly cr*p in the news letter.
also stronger rumor last few days that the 'terminator' is gone... well done (not!)
also stronger rumor last few days that the 'terminator' is gone... well done (not!)
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Mueller is not paid the amount of money he is to be 'gone...no he's not...resigned....he's still on HR Direct....He's fired.....I saw him yesterday....no you didn't...........'
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Are you alright LR?
You seem a bit stressed. Take some time off.........
You seem a bit stressed. Take some time off.........
If JH down the road lasted as long as he did while he did the things he did under their noses, CM is here for a while. The 'rumor' of him leaving or left is old news
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Demoted Capt
Harry you are so far off the mark with your assertion that this demotion didn't happen. Maybe you've been away on leave? Or just believing what you want to?
Ask around and find out about the Capt demotion, it is common knowledge. Not for discussion on this forum as EK haven't heard the last of it.
But it is a disgrace and even more of a reason to leave this place than 100+ hour months with **** rostering practices and no leave. There is no job security, you can be cut for nothing at any time. Ask the MEL, MAN, LOS, WAW guys....
Ask around and find out about the Capt demotion, it is common knowledge. Not for discussion on this forum as EK haven't heard the last of it.
But it is a disgrace and even more of a reason to leave this place than 100+ hour months with **** rostering practices and no leave. There is no job security, you can be cut for nothing at any time. Ask the MEL, MAN, LOS, WAW guys....
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AA
Please re read my post. I never 'asserted' that he wasn't demoted. The statement was made that someone had been fired for this event, which as it turns out, they were not. This was based on two separate individuals with the same story, obviously providing 'knowledge' to others that was not as 'common' as first thought! That does not for one minute imply that a demotion is in any way considered acceptable. It is not. I'm not privy to the facts or background to this case, or to the individual's history. Neither probably are you and the great majority who post here. And for the record, the WAW guys are still here. A few hours in the sim doing 180's. Done.
I just hope that the individual involved in this unfortunate incident has the contacts and help to take the appropriate action. If he's as competent and capable as many allude to, then he'll do well. It's just unfortunate we work for a company where this nonsense still goes on. You'd have thought they'd have learnt from past mistakes such as Manchester and Columbo.
And our management wonder why pilots aren't coming!
Harry
Please re read my post. I never 'asserted' that he wasn't demoted. The statement was made that someone had been fired for this event, which as it turns out, they were not. This was based on two separate individuals with the same story, obviously providing 'knowledge' to others that was not as 'common' as first thought! That does not for one minute imply that a demotion is in any way considered acceptable. It is not. I'm not privy to the facts or background to this case, or to the individual's history. Neither probably are you and the great majority who post here. And for the record, the WAW guys are still here. A few hours in the sim doing 180's. Done.
I just hope that the individual involved in this unfortunate incident has the contacts and help to take the appropriate action. If he's as competent and capable as many allude to, then he'll do well. It's just unfortunate we work for a company where this nonsense still goes on. You'd have thought they'd have learnt from past mistakes such as Manchester and Columbo.
And our management wonder why pilots aren't coming!
Harry
Last edited by harry the cod; 4th Apr 2017 at 08:00. Reason: Removal of middle paragraph in light of some recent information.