Renewal of Indian ATPL

[Dking737]

guys i am flying for an airline in the middle east, i would like to know how can renew my Indian ATPL.................comments, suggestions anything welcome

[Airmann]

Take around 6 months leave and have about $4000 cash for bribes ready in your pocket at any time.

[vfenext]

Just do what everyone else does, sign it off yourself and stamp your logbook Captain!

[Touchthestars]

@vfenext:

You said: "Just do what everyone else does, sign it off yourself and stamp your logbook Captain!"

I'm disappointed to hear a reply of such an unprofessional nature. Is this how you renewed your ATPL vfenext?

[Eau de Boeing]

@touchthestairs

Have you ever heard of the phrase "Many a true word is spoken in jest"?

[Touchthestars]

@ Eau de boeing:

Sure I have! But not when the lives of PAX are gambled!

BTW: I'm 'touchtheSTARS' not 'touchtheSTAIRS'. Sounds like you're having a great new year party over there!

[Eau de Boeing]

@voucherstars

So you talk about gambling PAX?

Two more pilots with fake documents arrested - IBNLive

To name just one article.


You are right, I have no idea where VFEnext got that idea from.....

Cheers!

[vfenext]

I say Touchthestairs you need to get a sense of humour or read the facts about fake licences in india. Also be aware I don't really care what you think about this or anything else so don't bother expressing shock and horror at my unprofessional reply

[captainpluto]

Hey peeps, this is a genuine question. How does one keep his Indian Atpl current if he is flying for a carrier outside India? Does anyone have a answer?

[Touchthestars]

Thanks captainpluto! I too want to know! Does anyone have a genuine answer?

[Dking737]

Ok I can throw some light on this topic as I started this thread

I am a FO currently flying the 737 in the Middle East. From My understanding Of the CAR, u need to have certain requirements:-
1. 10 hours flying time in the preceding 6 months the date of application.
2. Current class 1 medical.
3. Current FRTOL.
4. IR current on the multi engine aircraft which is endorsed on ur licence.
5. Need to do day and night checks on the type of multi engine aircraft endorsed on the ATPL licence.

In my case I have piper Seneca and c-172 endorsed as on the PIC side of my indian licence and 737NG(which is not current anymore)on the co-pilot side of my Indian licence.

What I plan to do is, go back to Indian and do some flying on the c-172 and the checks on the piper Seneca which will amount to total 10 hours. So what I wanted to clarify also is what if I do just the checks on the piper Seneca(which will approx be 3 hrs)and show the rest of the 7 hours as the 737 flying which I am presently flying in the Middle East .........this way I can save money for flying 7 hours.

Guys do u think this is possible??

[captainpluto]

Dear Diking737,
There should be something more than the requirements mentioned in the CAR as renewing the class 1 and frtol is easy and the 10hrs plus the sim checks requirement is met when the pilot is flying endorsed aircraft. From what i have heard is the Dgca wants the flying done on the Indian registered aircraft or something like this. It would be better if you can start this thread in the South East Asia section as there would be more Indians there who could guide you.

[cyrilroy21]

@Dking737

The DGCA primary rules for renewal of ATPL license lie in Aircraft rules 1937 , Schedule II , Section M , 3 b)

I'll copy paste that here and note the part highlighted in bold .
I have also split it so that the rules become a little bit more clear .
Everyone seems to be under the impression that the only criteria available for renewal of license is to fly 10 hours

section-m

b) having satisfactorily completed not less than ten hours flight time as Pilot-in-Command (fifty percent of flight time as Co-Pilot may be counted towards the requirements of flight time as Pilot-in-Command) within a period of six months immediately preceding the date of application for renewal,

or in lieu thereof ;

having satisfactorily completed the flying tests by day and by night as laid down in clause (g) of paragraph 1 within the same period.

As given the in above quote you can clearly see that there is an alternative to flying 10 hours and that is to just give the skill tests
You dont have to fly 10 hours AND give the skill tests . Either of them will do

Let me rewrite the rules a little bit more clearly

The flying requirements in order to renew the license which have to be flown within the last 6 months prior to application for renewal ( this must be flown on any multi engine aircraft endorsed on the ATPL license )

1. Fly 10 hours PIC

OR

2. Fly 20 hours SIC

OR

3. Give a skill test by day and night and an IR check

By meeting any one of the above 3 requirements you can apply for renewal of the license

Logically speaking the hours you fly as 737 co pilot in the middle east should satisfy the requirements because you are endorsed on the same and the rules dont the say they have to be flown on an Indian registered aircraft

But being the DGCA they always have their own set of unwritten rules that they want you to meet and will most likely demand that these hours be flown on an Indian registered aircraft


The application for renewal is only accepted at a DGCA regional office . However if your IR has been expired for more than a year then that has to be renewed by the main office near Safdarjung airport

I suggest you pay a visit to the nearest regional office and talk to them about your situation . If they accept the hours in the middle east then its mostly a straightforward process . They might demand some sort of verification letter from your employer
But to renew the IR ( should you wish to get it renewed ) you will most likely have to give skill test in India

If they dont accept the hours in the middle east then find the nearest flight school with a PA 34 and do a 45 minute FAM flight followed by
1 hour skill test by day
1 hour skill test by night
1 hour IR Check ( should you wish to renew the IR on PA 34 )

Prior to any flying in India you will need
Valid RTR license
Valid FRTOL
Valid Class 1 medical
Valid ELP as well

This is the application form for renewal of license . Go through it to get the bigger picture

http://dgca.nic.in/circular/FCL1_2010R2.pdf

[Dking737]

Thanks Cyril........that sums it up.......I guess I was not reading between the lines. I missed the "or in lieu of". So in this case I have to just do day check, night check, FAM and IR CHECK. I am in talks with a flying school which has a Seneca. They have given a quote for 3 hours and 10 mins and a decent price. I was a lil worried about the renewal as I was not very clear about the rules regarding renewal. Thanks again.

[tejaschaugule]

@DKING737
Hi,
Just read the thread and all the replies on renewing the Indian ATPL.
As I can see you were in talks with some school giving you decent rates by Jan 2015, I am sure by now you must have got the License renewed.
Mine is also the same story flying in UAE for Air Arabia.
Can you please give me the details of the school from where you did those 3hours 10min to get the skill test n all done?
Would be a great help as my matter is urgent n I have very little time.
And any other updated information and suggestions with this regard are welcome.
Do they consider flying in UAE?
Thanks.

[Dking737]

Hi

Dear Tejas,
I am not really sure about renewing your licence based on flying which you are doing in Air Arabia. I have heard that some people are pursuing this but this is a very tough process as you have to know someone in DGCA, who will take up your matter. If you know there is also a petition to DGCA by a group of INDIAN pilots who are working in the Middle East to validate their licences based on flying in the Middle East provided rest of the licences like RTR, FRTOL, medical, ELP are all current, but the update on this I do not have. With regards to what I am doing, I would like to know what multi engine piston engine aircraft do you have endorsed on your Indian ATPL?? If you can tell me, I can guide you further.

Regards,
Dking737

[tejaschaugule]

@DKINS737
Thanks for your reply,
I have the same Piper Seneca PA-34 endorsed on the left side of my ATPL. Then the A320 in Sep 2010. The License was valid until 05/01/15. IR check lapsed in June 2014.
So pretty much the same story as your's.

[Dking737]

Tejas,
With Seneca on your licence, the problem is somewhat solved as there are a few schools in India where they have an airworthy Seneca. You can PM(personal message) me, I can give you further details on where to go and how to go. With regards to already expired ATPL, I am sorry I exactly don't know what is the procedure. I am sure there is a procedure in place but I suggest to you that do not delay getting it renewed, as more delay will only further complicate the issue. I think you have to get a NOC from DGCA............let me just speak around to some of my friends and I can get back to you. Plz check your inbox I have sent you a PM.

REGARDS,
Dking737

[Iznogood]

I would love to have a Piper Seneca PA -34 type rating on my licence but they have put MEP instead.

[tejaschaugule]

Guys any School or airport with an Airworthy Seneca in India? And willing to help renew the ATPL license?
Or any contact whr I can file my case to renew ATPL on the basis of my flying in UAE?
Please help.