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Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.


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Old 12th Feb 2013, 14:23   #6001 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: FL 70
Age: 32
Posts: 3
captain.weird

Joined begining of 2012. A320, NTSO.
Time between application and interview was 6 months.
Between Interview and DOJ letter was another 6 months.
Joined 3 weeks later.
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Old 12th Feb 2013, 14:30   #6002 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Nice
Posts: 54
NTSO

@Migair

The december update didn't ask us to update hour information, did it??
Were some guys sent a request to update their hours?

@QatarAirway

Any chance they will hire foreign NTSO's out of the holding pool in the future? It seems now that by the time the hiring will pick up I will be in the holding pool for more than 1,5 years!
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Old 12th Feb 2013, 18:55   #6003 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 78
Quote:
Yes, CX contracts tend to fluctuate in richness as time marches on, but is in NO WAY worse pay than it is is to be a QR SO
To be more accurate, we need to go deeper with the cost of life in Honk-Kong wich I think is one of the highest in the world, even worst regarding accomodations. PLUS, a specific training loan is subscribe by the SOs in HKG when they start.Any failure, youre dead.
Im not not sure about that but Ive also heard foreign SO are not allow to buy appartments in HKG before 9 years or something after their DOJ. Taking into account SOs are clearly stuck and force to live in HKG due to the nature of their contract and licences at the end of their training. Basically better to start there before you reach 25years old.

Quote:
Now as a CX SO you DONT serve coffee
This is the case on the Cargo fleet but Ok I exaggerated things here lol. But more seriously, in CX SOs are mostly used on long haul for crewing economy, CX use them smartly during many years to cruise the aircraft while the crew go to sleep as they are cheaper. A big difference when QR want them to be upgrade quickly to FO.

Quote:
Don't put words in my mouth and then call me out on it; I never humiliated anyone or called anyone 'scam' or 'dirty'...etc! I will however, put you back in your place if you try to misdirect what I say.... like this instance.
The Second officer thread have been strangly deleted. I have in memory few words of your last post there but anyway I cant recall it so my mistake if there were any misinterpretation.

Good luck to the SOs in Doha or those still waiting their DOJ if it happen. I dont see any benefit for QR to send you updates then not hire youbut if that No SO in 2013 info is correct they should at least send you a game over e-mail with apologies...
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Old 12th Feb 2013, 20:25   #6004 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: everywhere and nowhere
Posts: 74
It seriously has been deleted, I thought that was a joke.

Nothing really concerning in there as far as I remember, so why delete it?
Also the QR Talent Pool thread is closed.
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Old 13th Feb 2013, 02:53   #6005 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 78
Quote:
Are you saying that Jet jobs are the only jobs worth having when your a low houred pilot? LOL, listen, if you are low hour pilot/no jet exp, then sitting around and not trying to find suitable flying work because your waiting for a jet job, then go right ahead and waste your life in vain/hope.
Oh and when I see how QR is treating FTSO...do YOU remember what you said?

Quote:
FTSOs will basically stop for the near year. It's a failed prospect in their eyes. But whats new, qR dont put huge amounts of thought into many things so they assumed that the training would be quick but since its not then they view extra sectors as a liability. If ur inhold pool, you will prob get a start but not until closer to mid year, if at all? Have a plan B and act on it.
plus I know very experienced guys on heavy turboprops who ended as SO's in CX...excuse me Disagreeable, but your statement above make me laugh a bit, it doesn't work like that at all, better to escape this industry you should say.

Last edited by RK303; 13th Feb 2013 at 02:58.
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Old 13th Feb 2013, 04:24   #6006 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Where sand replaces common sense
Posts: 70
RK303, WTF are you talking about? Your boring me and probably many others on this thread.

If you are going to quote me from last year/early year then at least put it in context. If you are silly enough to wait without applying for other work the thats your problem.... thats what "if at all" "plan B" means.

Things change here at a whim. So, when that was posted that was shaping up to be the case. Clearly you are an armchair QR expert, so I will leave you to your opinions.

Quote:
QatarAirway:
Just to give you guys some insight from a current SO.
Training as you guys know IS very slow. There is no communication with what is going on and when our training should resume.
I would have no problem with the wait as I understand that there is no training capacity, however I would have appreciated some communication, updates, an appology perhaps, but hey..

What disagreeable says is all true. Though harsh, he isn't a hater of QR, everything he says is true, but it is all how you deal with it.
I know guys that sit and bitch about what has been going on for the past few months and just complain, others that are happy they are getting paid, enjoying their time off, studying, and just taking it easy.

I may have not been here for as long as disagreeable, but I have enough friends to know that QR is not all horrible, nor all amazing. It is a matter of how open minded you are, how much you are willing to adapt to, and most importantly it is just a place to work, for a lot of people, a transit destination if you will..
Having said this, there are ALOT of guys who have been here 5 years + and don't intend to go anywhere..

In regards to training, I have some friends who are finally flying quite a bit this month, 10+ flights, after months of being home, which indicates that things SHOULD be getting better for those that have been here longer..
Whether FTSOs get priority over NTSOs that have joined much before them is still debatable..
+1

Last edited by disagreeable; 13th Feb 2013 at 05:50.
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Old 13th Feb 2013, 10:11   #6007 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Up in the Air
Posts: 117
@Jeanpaul172

In my case i dindt get the second email, but 1 pilot working here with me had, asking for an update of the flying hours and date of last sim check and last flight.


i have been following the progress of the qatar training for long time, and one think i have seen is that they are quite unpredictable, so they are saying now no FTSO for 2013 and in April or May they will call as much as they can get because they dont have people for the summer schedule...

Wait and see.... heheheheheh
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Old 13th Feb 2013, 19:15   #6008 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: arabian gulf
Posts: 21
another extra waiting time ??

Dear swimmers , please read this :

Bahrain Air has halted all flights and will liquidate its assets, according to USA Today.
The privately owned airline that launched in 2008 offered 105-110 regional flights to 18 destinations in the Middle East and Asia.
Since establishing themselves as a low-cost option and then changing into a full-service airline, in 2010, they hit a financial wall, leaving them no choice, but to declare bankruptcy.
They also employed about 300 people, according to USA Today, who will now have to find other jobs to support themselves and their families.

Guess who is coming to QR now ?? type rated A320 pilots (current & experience) against you , poor swimmers ?? if you think QR will prefer you...well ....just think again
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Old 13th Feb 2013, 19:24   #6009 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 78
@Disagreeable

No worry Ill stop disturb you. Im not talking about me here because I recovered from what dragged my life dangerously: Aviation. So let me just resume what I was trying to say and stop there.

If you as a pilot, fully aware of the reality of your market, you should warn all those young guys to seek other kind of job than to become a pilot to accomplish their life positively. Because you know that very few will survive.
No false hopes, no false speechs like go seek a pilot job elsewhere to help them move on when in the mean time they are able to do something else more useful.over
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Old 14th Feb 2013, 13:59   #6010 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: everywhere and nowhere
Posts: 74
PilotofDoha, if you read carefully, you will actually see that some of the people physically were in the office.

I also have talked to several people in the office(s), and I have the mobile numbers of the Senior Recruitment Management (and no, sorry I cannot hand those over, otherwise theyll go crazy getting 300 calls from talent pool people, not even via pm). All information I got has been stated already.

I have many friends flying with Qatar and they all tell me similar.

Also, unless youre local or very lucky/have good connections (relatives preferably), they wont call you as NTSO so far. I know it has nothing to do with my results and documentation. Results were very good and documentation is all complete/green.

Fact is, if you got no hours and no type rating, youre absolute bottomlist priority, as QR now has contracts with CTC and also their own flight school since ages.

If you have hours and no type rating, you are still not preferred as you will most likely end up as NTSO or NTFO (depending on your flight experience).

As stated before. There are people with a few thousand hours on turboprops (e.g. ATR, Dash8...) that have -appart from the hours- the same priority as you, speaking NTSO. And some of those turboprops are sometimes harder to fly than some jets as they hang inside the weather all the time, while jets just overfly them. Still - NTSO.
So who would you hire as company? Someone who just came out of flight school with 0 experience or someone who knows every day procedural knowledge within aviation?

As others have said. If you can afford sitting around waiting for QR to come and gamble while daddy pays your bills, go ahead. To be honest, I cant afford to wait longer. Ive waited for appx. 15 months now and every news I get are worse.
Contract coming
Contract delayed
Contract delayed further
SO recruitment on hold
Talent pool instead
Talent pool - maybe reconsider your choice
Talent pool - seizing hiring of SO

Awaiting "End of February" update which will either tell me:
(times are estimates)

A - you will be hired, training starts April
B - you will be hired, training starts November
C - you will get an update in April
D - you will have to do a reassesment because the application took too long
E - No SO hiring in 2013 anymore


In my case, I will wait for QR until May latest, after that I will go for another fix offer I got. I will not bail another offer because of qatar anymore. It happend before and I openly regret it. The chance was one time only.


If you have another possibility though, dont hesitate.
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Old 14th Feb 2013, 14:03   #6011 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Europe
Posts: 22
Dohapilot, maybe some people prefer using facts or arguments over quotes from their holy book or just saying inshallah...
checkthisout is offline   Reply
Old 14th Feb 2013, 14:54   #6012 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Nice
Posts: 54
@PilotofDoha / @Tritzo

PilotofDoha, Did you go in to the office and ask them? You live in Qatar so I guess you're the right man for the job . And if you did, can you please share your knowledge with us?

Tritzo,
Don't forget option F, the option I fear and unfortunatly expect the most for those of us NTSO's waiting for more than a year: 'We are not able to proceed further with your application, thank you for your interest in Qatar Aiways and goodluck with your further carreer'.
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Old 15th Feb 2013, 03:55   #6013 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8
disagreeabe

Disagreeable, a while back you clearly stated that you were done posting on this thread, but looks like that wasn't the case. When and where do you find the time to be so active on a forum with the kind of roster that QR has? What gives my friend?
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Old 15th Feb 2013, 08:31   #6014 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: East Anglia
Age: 75
Posts: 440
What gives my friend?
Could be...Continual Jet lag combined with high stress and lack of a varied lifestyle becoming too close and too involved in a unrewarding job in a hostile country whilst being overly concerned for others who do not really give a damn about you....
Ignorant uneducated and innocent abroad chaps like me did it years ago...you tend to slightly grow out of it as you age but it is essentially in your DNA to care for others
and there is presently no vaccination I know of available against it.
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Old 15th Feb 2013, 09:49   #6015 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: venus
Posts: 412
Rk303,
Qatar Airways is such a respectable airline....., that recently They (QR) were forced to call the Etihadairways recruitment department ,to please them to put a cap on the number of QR pilots they interview each month!!
I "love" the way QR is always trying to solve issues....
Whaaat to do....

Last edited by salamalikum2; 15th Feb 2013 at 09:56.
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Old 15th Feb 2013, 18:36   #6016 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Up in the Air
Posts: 117
PilotofDoha

PilotofDoha

Thank you very much for the good news, im sure that more than one will PM you even if you said not to do . I hope mine is one of that contracts , however i wont be that lucky because I know some people has been in the pool longer than me.

According to a friend inside Qatar that went the other day to the office, he was told that "thanks" to the grounding of the B787s some A320 instructors that were just upgrade to the Nightmareliner are back in Sim so other A320 instructors are free to fly on the line as much as possible and train people, so this will help to speed up a bit the pool and specially some captains that they need to check out asap.

Now also im sure they will get some people from Bahrain Air, that just stop operation, and thats an easy place to pick up some experience pilots, specially DEC.

Regards.
migair54 is offline   Reply
Old 15th Feb 2013, 21:00   #6017 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Nice
Posts: 54
PilotofDoha

These NTSO contract will probably be for Qatari nationals who have followed the sponsored course through the National flight academy.
They told me and others, No SO's anymore in 2013. This was also confirmed by numerous NTSO's in Qatar at the moment.
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Old 16th Feb 2013, 09:35   #6018 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Where sand replaces common sense
Posts: 70
Quote:
PilotofDoha:
datdude you are right, he put so much energy on this forum, its like he has no job, tell people the thruth
Once again you harrass.

All I can say, is my efforts behind the scenes have helped many here and that you will never give credit or even know, because if revealed, im revealed. I dont need recognition, I just want to rattle your cage to the reality of being here, otherwise all your going to get is golden goose egg talk from inexp wannabe's (nothing is wrong with being motivated/excited but too much of it is unhealthy)

If you dont like what I say (and I admit its harsh at times), your entitled to that, but PilotofDoha and Datdude bare in mind Doha and Qatar Airways is a small place , so you better think twice about the insults and harrasment you give.

@datdude and PilotofDoha:
before you openly criticise...... Please read below.
Quote:
40&80:
What gives my friend?
Could be...Continual Jet lag combined with high stress and lack of a varied lifestyle becoming too close and too involved in a unrewarding job in a hostile country whilst being overly concerned for others who do not really give a damn about you (thats you people on this forum).... Ignorant uneducated and innocent abroad chaps like me did it years ago (datdude & PilotofDoha)....... you tend to slightly grow out of it as you age but it is essentially in your DNA to care for others and there is presently no vaccination I know of available against it.
Thanks 40&80 (I added the parenthesis for those that may be lacking in english or understanding), ..... some inexp.pilots take alot for granted, sadly.


Quote:
jeanpaul172:
These NTSO contract will probably be for Qatari nationals who have followed the sponsored course through the National flight academy.
Correct.
All the "friends" reports of no hiring of SO's from holdpool for 2013 are mostly correct and have been what I have been saying.
Some capts come back from 787 to train, but will not help holdpool applicants much at all (not sure how that conclusion came about). It may help those waiting here 130+!
Still some trickle hiring of DEC/FO's throughout, mostly DEC's.

Last edited by disagreeable; 16th Feb 2013 at 09:38.
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Old 16th Feb 2013, 17:29   #6019 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 35
I'm not in the talent pool, I've been here for about 7 months now and training has gone on par with a lot of other people already mentioned on this thread. Yes I am lucky I am in, I think it will be a great job when the training is out of the way, patience. A lot of it is required.
Regarding the hold pool. You have done a lot of work for the interview and well done on passing, seriously congratulations, no sarcasm at all. It shows that you put in a serious amount of effort into securing a fantastic opportunity, it is just unfortunate circumstances that have hindered your career progression.
Passing the Qatar selection should give you a great boost for your confidence. If it comes to the situation that you have to look for alternative employment, you know you'll probably have a very good shout at another opportunity in the knowledge you are good enough for Qatar, it's just unfortunate they couldn't accommodate you at this point. Their loss. Another airlines gain.
I know you won't want to hear it, but Qatar isn't, hasn't and won't be the last airline in the world to let down people in hold pools. Please remember the guys and girls who tried their luck with BA, that golden ticket to have an amazing moustache, an English accent belonging to not one English county and by deed pole change your name to Nigel. Not saying it's right, it isn't in the slightest, but it is the nature of the beast. Aviation is brutal, when it goes your way it is the best high, when it doesn't there isn't much back up. Good luck to everyone in the talent pool, genuinely, I hope you all find alternative solutions somewhere soon (or Qatar call you, naturally!) Flying or not, pay the bills, keep the wife happy and if you can afford to, kick the nuts off an aerobat and have some fun, life is for living not waiting.
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Old 16th Feb 2013, 18:33   #6020 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 78
@charliejulietthotel

Quote:
Aviation is brutal, when it goes your way it is the best high, when it doesn't there isn't much back up. Good luck to everyone in the talent pool, genuinely, I hope you all find alternative solutions somewhere soon (or Qatar call you, naturally!) Flying or not, pay the bills, keep the wife happy and if you can afford to, kick the nuts off an aerobat and have some fun, life is for living not waiting.
Well said
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