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Old 31st Dec 2010, 12:11   #681 (permalink)
 
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Right - anyone got directions to the Bastille?
Sadly, it was demolished in November 1789.

48°51'11.27"N 2°22'8.73"E

Whenever governments get too big for their boots, the likes of Julian Assange will continue to point the way there. The tighter that the government tries to hold us in their grip, the more likely it is that things will slip through. You can only govern with the consent of the people. The more they try to cover up, the more likely it is that honest-minded civil servants will leak. With most of the army away across the Rubicon, we are (thank God) unlikely to turn into a military dictatorship.

cf "Yes Minister"
Bernard:- "It's one of those irregular Whitehall verbs, isn't it? - 'I give confidential briefings, You leak, He is being charged under section 2a of the Official Secrets Act' "...
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Old 1st Jan 2011, 03:15   #682 (permalink)
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Whenever governments get too big for their boots, the likes of Julian Assange will continue to point the way there.
Yet, by his own admission, Assange has admitted that he is handling stolen property, don't think I need him looking after my best interests, doubt if many others do either.
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Old 1st Jan 2011, 03:18   #683 (permalink)
 
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Old 1st Jan 2011, 03:29   #684 (permalink)
 
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The idea that the information is 'property' is interesting as it must be an assumption that it is the property of The State and therefore the property of the people. If the ownership of the property by the few interferes with the good of the many then - who has stolen what?
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Old 1st Jan 2011, 03:31   #685 (permalink)
 
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I put money on the fact that Assagne is madder and braver than you fellah!
Can't comment on the "madder" bit, but if he was so "brave" then surely he would haul his ass back to Swededn and face the charges against him (with the associated publicity too, of course, since it would be a media circus) instead of staying in the UK, where there is a higher chance of deportation to the US if they decide to charge him with various felonies?

If I was in his position I would go back and defend myself asap, but that's me.
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Old 1st Jan 2011, 03:34   #686 (permalink)
 
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I agree - if the charges are total hogwash (or not) he should go back to Sweden and clear that matter up. It reflects badly on him whilst it is unresolved.
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Old 1st Jan 2011, 03:35   #687 (permalink)
 
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Old 1st Jan 2011, 08:02   #688 (permalink)
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Namib, sounds as though you are still on the sauce, you are forgiven the personal stuff, suggest you stay away from it though, it gets you banned!
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Old 1st Jan 2011, 11:13   #689 (permalink)
 
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Parabellum and the mods

You are absolutely right. Thank you for your forebearance and a great New Year to you all.

NF
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Old 3rd Jan 2011, 03:44   #690 (permalink)
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The idea that the information is 'property' is interesting as it must be an assumption that it is the property of The State and therefore the property of the people. If the ownership of the property by the few interferes with the good of the many then - who has stolen what?
If the property in question consists of message exchanges between various sections of the government of the USA then what business does an Australian national, resident in Sweden have with it?
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Old 3rd Jan 2011, 04:11   #691 (permalink)
 
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You wouldn't let it lie....


It's ours - the privilege of ownership has been abused - they can't be trusted; it belongs to us, from now on it is our information for us to make decisions from - not theirs to use for their own ends.

You reap what you sow.
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Old 3rd Jan 2011, 09:19   #692 (permalink)
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Load Toad, sorry old son but you are are a dreamer.

Yes, now I'll let it lie. Idealism and realism do not make easy bedfellows.
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Old 3rd Jan 2011, 10:43   #693 (permalink)
 
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An idealist is what a cynic calls a realist.

If we don't dream of better things we are loath to live with what we have.


'You can't fly, it's not natural - if we were meant to fly we would have been born with wings.'

'Y' right - lets keep walking.'
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Old 3rd Jan 2011, 16:51   #694 (permalink)
 
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You wouldn't let it lie....


It's ours - the privilege of ownership has been abused - they can't be trusted; it belongs to us, from now on it is our information for us to make decisions from - not theirs to use for their own ends.

You reap what you sow.
How are messages from the US Government the "property" of someone in Hong Kong? They ain't "yours" to decide what to do with, not by a LONG shot.
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Old 3rd Jan 2011, 18:51   #695 (permalink)
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How are messages from the US Government the "property" of someone in Hong Kong? They ain't "yours" to decide what to do with, not by a LONG shot.
It's called EQUITY – A GENERAL PRINCIPLE OF LAW RECOGNISED BY CIVILISED NATIONS?

IN which Article 38 of the Statute of the International Court of Justice which sets out what the Court needs to have regard to when deciding disputes submitted to it. One source set out in Article 38 is the ‘general principles of law recognised by civilised nations’.

Basically,it means that you don't have to be a citizen of a particular country to have an interest in a particular issue which concerns a number of other countries.

Also in what way can someone from Belgium tell another person in Hong Kong (who might be American for all we know but for the purpose of PPRuNe lists their location purely as Hong Kong) that they have no right to discuss a topical issue relating to international law or a matter emanating wholly or in part from the US which has affected many other countries?

Do you speak for the US government or any other government and it's citizens?

I don't think so not by a LONG shot

This is a topic which is of interest to all of us.If the documents related to North Korea in the same way I'm sure there would not be anywhere near the same arguments as to the legality one way or another.

They would be asking to know more about what is going on......
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Old 3rd Jan 2011, 22:09   #696 (permalink)
 
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This is really the point I'm always trying to get to but haven't made well enough. Truth belongs to all people - not based on the accident of where you were born, class, sex, education or whatever.
Also that technology has changed the game irreversibly. Certainly with regard communication.
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Old 3rd Jan 2011, 22:26   #697 (permalink)
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Another person who seems to regularly post here has suggested that acts of violence and civil disobedience have increased recently or over a period of the last 15 or 20 years....Nothing could be further from the truth....

The only thing as LT has said that has changed is the level of technology not human activity....

Human behaviour is the same and will always be the same...

It is what makes us the way we are and differentiates us from other species on this planet...

If as a group we find out that we are being tricked,swindled or or at best mislead then we have the tendency to revolt and want change....

This can be done peacefully or if that does not work with more persuasive methods...

This has been done throughout history in small ways such as a protest or in more dramatic ways such as revolution...

The only thing that sets these events apart is that with modern communication we are able to see and hear about them virtually in real time as opposed to reading about them in history books...

I'm sure that if you were around at the time of the Russian revolution and CNN was there to report on it or Wikileaks was there to tell the masses what was happening those complaining about the truth would be saying the same thing....
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Old 3rd Jan 2011, 23:49   #698 (permalink)
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The ones who are trying to convince you that you are bring duped are usually the ones who have taken you for a ride in the first place....

However,as in life with those who assert a position but then cannot substantiate their case with facts the reality is blindingly obvious....

Sometimes to challenge the status quo is not easy but then anything in life that is important is always worth the risks involved....
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What're you going to do now?
You take the course that you know is right....

Nothing in life is free including the truth....
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Old 4th Jan 2011, 02:45   #699 (permalink)
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I fall in with lobe and Bend. The Great White fleet seems archaic, and hackneyed, it is in fact the most elegant expression of the "Pax" ever undertaken. Please at least look at "Prophets of War" by William Hartung. War these days is a function of making the Industrial Machine (of which our military are a supporting Arm) wealthy, as an excuse, we are offered "Make _____ Safe for Democracy".

The expansion of NATO is a ruse intended to support further massive defense spending and the sales of ARMS to our "friends". I have no use for Putin, but I have to say his saber rattling is not without genuine cause. Lockheed has bought out all its competitors with our money, in the form of subsidies and "sales of two of the most expensive Turkeys ever designed, the F-22, and the J-35.

The first attempt to recognize the death of the fighter airplane was fielding the F-4 with missiles only, and no guns. In the 60's for God's sake, the fighter DIED. As stand off missiles appeared, the fighter was looking over its shoulder. No matter, the F-22 appeared to make gazillions on a piece of machinery that is obscenely overpriced, and has NO MISSION.

If Assange can light up the bastards who steal our money by showing us videos of dead soldiers to justify a mockery of the Great White Fleet, and for no goddam reason at that, long live the asshole, Assange. For how long will we live paying treasonous bastards outrageous money for profit, not for Peace. Ironically, Pax Americana has been co-opted brilliantly by McNamara, Wolfowitx, Jackson, Rivers, Gingrich, and hundreds of liars. Sunlight/AHAH !!

Krushchev, Castro etc. used cardboard tubes to simulate missiles to fool the people into fearing the West. We build the real deal, to frighten everyone, including ourselves, so a few thousand reptiles can grow rich.

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Old 4th Jan 2011, 12:01   #700 (permalink)
 
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If you wrote any information here on PPRuNe that you have read from Wikileaks
would I be as guilty as Mr JA himself,
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