Jade Cargo
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Since they bring the Doctor in from Germany, I don't think you'll be able to swing that one. What I meant by upgrade was to PIC not PICC. After being a heavy capt for about 20 years, being a PICC is kind of like retiring. The only duty you have is relieving the pilots during the flight. Sometimes you do an outside check, to help out or make a cup of coffee. Other than that, it's probably the easiest job in aviation. You're right about the pay difference, it's very little between the seats.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Hey guys, i just put in my online app (3200 tt-1600 in jet >25t-current A320) how long are call backs taking for FO interviews? Also if selected to interview is the travel ticket/ hotel paid for? Thanks!
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: China
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Ric has it correct.
We only got payed for block time. I average 140-160 hrs duty time and get paid for 80 hr block time. Chinese Taxes will take away 25 - 33% of your salary.
Duty time often at limit.
Company promises upgrade by seniority but I don't see First officers upgrading. First officers say thay need 250 landing on type in China to upgrade. 250 landings = 6 - 10 year.
As a PICC you are a cruise pilot with FO pay.
Aeroplanes are filthy, mechanics have little or no experience.
You must fight for: tickets home and days off.
You will most likely fail chinese medical at sometime, loss of medical insurance will not pay out.
Roster changes many times every month.
Pilots here are very good people.
This is not a career aeroline, most all pilots here are looking for jobs elsewhere.
You must consider everything befour signing with Jade.
It is a good job, but not the best in China.
Trying to be honest not talk bad.
We only got payed for block time. I average 140-160 hrs duty time and get paid for 80 hr block time. Chinese Taxes will take away 25 - 33% of your salary.
Duty time often at limit.
Company promises upgrade by seniority but I don't see First officers upgrading. First officers say thay need 250 landing on type in China to upgrade. 250 landings = 6 - 10 year.
As a PICC you are a cruise pilot with FO pay.
Aeroplanes are filthy, mechanics have little or no experience.
You must fight for: tickets home and days off.
You will most likely fail chinese medical at sometime, loss of medical insurance will not pay out.
Roster changes many times every month.
Pilots here are very good people.
This is not a career aeroline, most all pilots here are looking for jobs elsewhere.
You must consider everything befour signing with Jade.
It is a good job, but not the best in China.
Trying to be honest not talk bad.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Any news?
Hi guys,
This thread has been awful quiet these last few weeks...wonder if anybody has any updates or/and new info on the screenings, T&C´s, etc. I´m probably going to Shenzhen for the December screening.
cheers!
This thread has been awful quiet these last few weeks...wonder if anybody has any updates or/and new info on the screenings, T&C´s, etc. I´m probably going to Shenzhen for the December screening.
cheers!
Join Date: Mar 2009
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I'm glad I went to work for Jade before reading all the grossly blown out proportion comments. The "only" thing I would agree with "Ric", is we don't get paid to drive to the airport, prep the cockpit, and after the parking brake is set, leaving the aircraft. Of course, there is no airline in the world that pays for that. I could go on, but overall Jade is a good place to work for some and obviously not for others. If one prepares for the medical and puts some effort into it, it's not difficult. Spinning the wheel and hoping for the best? Well, that's called gambling. I've done medicals at several airlines in Asia and the CAAC is definitely not the hardest. The interview is very difficult if one goes in unprepared. The days are long but you will have 3 or 4 pilots so there is rest available. I'm home 10 days a month and for those guys that live in Europe, well, the company will let you use the cost of the hotel room towards a ticket home for a couple days, so the Euro guys end up getting close to 15 days at home. Is everyone looking for something else? Of course, that's "The Pilot's way".
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Hi Tim, Give me until the end of next week and I'll have something you can use. If you're looking at interviewing in December, there are somethings you can do now to prepare. Get an online FAA ATP test and start studying. The book, " Ace the pilot tech exam" or something like that, is very helpful. As far as the medical, if you are in super shape, stop jogging now. In Asia, if you're in too good a shape, it's a no no. A resting heart rate of less than 50 is a negative. I know it sounds strange but that is the way it is. I wasn't able to get my heart rate above 150 on the treadmill test since I run about 5 miles a day, so I had to jump through all sorts of hoops. This year, I stopped exercising a couple months out and I had no problems. The Doctor even complimented me on doing a better test..... If you are in terrible shape, get off the booze and red meat, start walking every morning for at least 45 minutes. Anyway, I'll have more details within the week but this is something that can be done now. The effort you make now, will make the interview process that much easier. I'm amazed at how guys will go to an interview and think they don't have to prepare and wonder what happened when they get "the phone call"
Join Date: Mar 2009
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If anyone has an interview coming up. PM me and I'll give you what info I can to help. I was going to add something to this thread but I can see "someone" is going to argue with whatever I say and I'm not up for that. Good Luck
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Interview and current conditions at Jade
I will tend to side more with Jaz than Ric regarding conditions at Jade. For instance, I receive all d/h pay at 50% of full credit, regardless of the commercial or company flight duration. It is ground transportation that is not paid for if it falls under 2 hours.
During the economic meltdown in 2008 I was glad to just have a job anywhere in aviation. Having said that...
The interview is relatively tough (most people get weeded out on the psych eval) but not nearly as hard as I thought it would be. All I can say on the psych portion is: BE HONEST. Don't ever try to game the questionnaire by trying to guess what type of pilot the airline is looking for. Answer the questions as if you are having an honest, frank assessment of yourself; you are either a fit for the airline or you aren't. If you try to be someone other than yourself on the MMPI you can keep your bags packed. On the psychometric part of the exam, the computer will have you busier than a one-legged man in an ass kicking contest, but don't give up! If the program gets ahead of you and you can’t recall an exact sequence, cut your losses and jump right back in to it. There are some spatial relations tests (unfolded boxes with markings on various sides, and airplanes in various attitudes that have to be moved to other attitudes using proper flight control inputs, etc. The technical interview was not all that difficult. Some classic questions were asked (what to do if the skipper wants to push mins., the drunk pilot scenario, how much fuel is burned carrying extra fuel (classic 747 4% rule) and a couple of weather and approach chart questions. I don’t know what is currently being asked, but you get the general idea. I did not prepare for the technical interview at all. It is mainly a get-to-know-you interview and the good Dr. goes over your test results, provided you passed his psych screening. Please do not argue with the guy over what kind of a person you are. He was fairly accurate with my personality type and I just let our differences in opinion remain unstated.
The medical exam is bizarre. If you have any kidney or gallbladder stones those have to be taken care of before you can pass their exam. A stress test, EEG, X-Ray, hearing test, eye test and ENT exam is administered; BMI, urine, blood work and overall physical fitness is assessed. Even though I had some problems with hearing and was a little over the max BMI, I was still given a pass. However, I did do some serious biking in the weeks prior to going to China for the interview.
The flying is especially tough; long hours with a 3-man crew of up to 14 hours flight time and longer duty periods. This is one of the things that I do not like about Jade, even more so now that an ex-Air Namibia Austrian has been nominated CP and is really trying to push the troops. However, the rosters have become somewhat more stable under new crew scheduling personnel. Whereas I used to receive 14 or more roster changes in a month, it is now down to about 4-7. Things could still be better!
I am a commuter and the long flights back and forth to home are fatiguing, especially when I want to maximize my time at home with family and the schedulers have me rostered the next day after arrival in China. In addition, the commute takes 3 days crossing the dateline so my effective time at home is 17 days. Jetlag is never ending…
The Chinese have a custom about “losing face” and it becomes irritating to be surrounded by indifferent people who are not willing to step outside their own secure little box, in case they might accidentally make a mistake. For all of the anticipation I had coming here of how well the airline would be run under Lufthansa management, there seems to be a big disconnect between what upper LH management wants to implement and what is actually accomplished on the ground.
Maintenance is not the best in the world. In fact, many Chinese mechanics think the problem is solved once they clear the fault out of the CMC computer. Jade has had an extraordinary number of engine problems on new 747s and that is quite bothersome: dinged fan blades, destroyed turbine hot sections, complete 2nd stage compressor failures and even some unexplained engine rundowns. In my opinion they are shooting in the dark trying to find solutions. I have not heard of too many GE representatives assigned to find out the underlying causes of these issues, and GE makes a damn fine jet engine, IMHO.
Pay is not bad. We are paid in Chinese RMB and it is steadily gaining strength against the dollar. When I started it was 6.84/$, now it is 6.66 and getting even better. Who knows what the situation will be like in 2 years, but for now it is an ideal currency to be paid in. Moving the money out of the country has proven troublesome, though there are some solutions. On average, I make about $11-12k/ month all in as a PICC. It could be better, but it is certainly a lot worse in many other airlines.
The PICC title took some getting used to. It started out as a demeaning position because I used to fly as a 747 Captain, but I am flying more and asking for sectors in the LH seat whenever I fly with a training captain, so my outlook has improved somewhat. Jade is just now upgrading some PICCs and some FOs with previous PIC experience. What really irks me though is the training bond they are holding over the guys. What cheap asses! If the place was an airline where people wanted to have a career, no bond would be required. UPS, FedEx, etc. don’t hold training bonds over their pilot’s heads.
In summary, there are many pros and cons working at Jade Cargo. The pros are that LH has a long-term management contract that should ensure our viability and job security. Routes are expanding and there is finally some movement within the ranks with the recent upgrade classes. In addition, we are now going through the CATII proving stages with somewhat higher mins, but they should be lowered soon. Net pay is not bad, but we have to work for it.
The cons are having to deal with the CAAC and Chinese culture in general. The authorities are absolutely paranoid and resort to bizarre check requirements and conditions whenever an incident or accident occurs (i.e. after the Hudson River ditching we had to practice ditching exercises in a 747 sim, we now have to send an email to 3 different email addresses stating we are "fit for flight" before every trip, etc…). In addition, many within the pilot group have developed a bad distaste for the CP, and are counting the days until he retires. The contract seems to be manipulated in the company’s favor whenever there is a gray area subject to interpretation. Crew rest is also lacking the standards as set forth in JAR regulations. Finally, the long commute is wearing on guy’s nerves. Jade pays for 6 tickets a year in coach so the 20/X back to back (40 days ON/ 20-22 days OFF minus 3 travel days) is the best solution for many of us. It is also questionable whether Jade will ever become a truly big freight airline, such as the aforementioned UPS or FedEx.
Speaking of which, if FedEx or UPS calls today I will be gone tomorrow…
During the economic meltdown in 2008 I was glad to just have a job anywhere in aviation. Having said that...
The interview is relatively tough (most people get weeded out on the psych eval) but not nearly as hard as I thought it would be. All I can say on the psych portion is: BE HONEST. Don't ever try to game the questionnaire by trying to guess what type of pilot the airline is looking for. Answer the questions as if you are having an honest, frank assessment of yourself; you are either a fit for the airline or you aren't. If you try to be someone other than yourself on the MMPI you can keep your bags packed. On the psychometric part of the exam, the computer will have you busier than a one-legged man in an ass kicking contest, but don't give up! If the program gets ahead of you and you can’t recall an exact sequence, cut your losses and jump right back in to it. There are some spatial relations tests (unfolded boxes with markings on various sides, and airplanes in various attitudes that have to be moved to other attitudes using proper flight control inputs, etc. The technical interview was not all that difficult. Some classic questions were asked (what to do if the skipper wants to push mins., the drunk pilot scenario, how much fuel is burned carrying extra fuel (classic 747 4% rule) and a couple of weather and approach chart questions. I don’t know what is currently being asked, but you get the general idea. I did not prepare for the technical interview at all. It is mainly a get-to-know-you interview and the good Dr. goes over your test results, provided you passed his psych screening. Please do not argue with the guy over what kind of a person you are. He was fairly accurate with my personality type and I just let our differences in opinion remain unstated.
The medical exam is bizarre. If you have any kidney or gallbladder stones those have to be taken care of before you can pass their exam. A stress test, EEG, X-Ray, hearing test, eye test and ENT exam is administered; BMI, urine, blood work and overall physical fitness is assessed. Even though I had some problems with hearing and was a little over the max BMI, I was still given a pass. However, I did do some serious biking in the weeks prior to going to China for the interview.
The flying is especially tough; long hours with a 3-man crew of up to 14 hours flight time and longer duty periods. This is one of the things that I do not like about Jade, even more so now that an ex-Air Namibia Austrian has been nominated CP and is really trying to push the troops. However, the rosters have become somewhat more stable under new crew scheduling personnel. Whereas I used to receive 14 or more roster changes in a month, it is now down to about 4-7. Things could still be better!
I am a commuter and the long flights back and forth to home are fatiguing, especially when I want to maximize my time at home with family and the schedulers have me rostered the next day after arrival in China. In addition, the commute takes 3 days crossing the dateline so my effective time at home is 17 days. Jetlag is never ending…
The Chinese have a custom about “losing face” and it becomes irritating to be surrounded by indifferent people who are not willing to step outside their own secure little box, in case they might accidentally make a mistake. For all of the anticipation I had coming here of how well the airline would be run under Lufthansa management, there seems to be a big disconnect between what upper LH management wants to implement and what is actually accomplished on the ground.
Maintenance is not the best in the world. In fact, many Chinese mechanics think the problem is solved once they clear the fault out of the CMC computer. Jade has had an extraordinary number of engine problems on new 747s and that is quite bothersome: dinged fan blades, destroyed turbine hot sections, complete 2nd stage compressor failures and even some unexplained engine rundowns. In my opinion they are shooting in the dark trying to find solutions. I have not heard of too many GE representatives assigned to find out the underlying causes of these issues, and GE makes a damn fine jet engine, IMHO.
Pay is not bad. We are paid in Chinese RMB and it is steadily gaining strength against the dollar. When I started it was 6.84/$, now it is 6.66 and getting even better. Who knows what the situation will be like in 2 years, but for now it is an ideal currency to be paid in. Moving the money out of the country has proven troublesome, though there are some solutions. On average, I make about $11-12k/ month all in as a PICC. It could be better, but it is certainly a lot worse in many other airlines.
The PICC title took some getting used to. It started out as a demeaning position because I used to fly as a 747 Captain, but I am flying more and asking for sectors in the LH seat whenever I fly with a training captain, so my outlook has improved somewhat. Jade is just now upgrading some PICCs and some FOs with previous PIC experience. What really irks me though is the training bond they are holding over the guys. What cheap asses! If the place was an airline where people wanted to have a career, no bond would be required. UPS, FedEx, etc. don’t hold training bonds over their pilot’s heads.
In summary, there are many pros and cons working at Jade Cargo. The pros are that LH has a long-term management contract that should ensure our viability and job security. Routes are expanding and there is finally some movement within the ranks with the recent upgrade classes. In addition, we are now going through the CATII proving stages with somewhat higher mins, but they should be lowered soon. Net pay is not bad, but we have to work for it.
The cons are having to deal with the CAAC and Chinese culture in general. The authorities are absolutely paranoid and resort to bizarre check requirements and conditions whenever an incident or accident occurs (i.e. after the Hudson River ditching we had to practice ditching exercises in a 747 sim, we now have to send an email to 3 different email addresses stating we are "fit for flight" before every trip, etc…). In addition, many within the pilot group have developed a bad distaste for the CP, and are counting the days until he retires. The contract seems to be manipulated in the company’s favor whenever there is a gray area subject to interpretation. Crew rest is also lacking the standards as set forth in JAR regulations. Finally, the long commute is wearing on guy’s nerves. Jade pays for 6 tickets a year in coach so the 20/X back to back (40 days ON/ 20-22 days OFF minus 3 travel days) is the best solution for many of us. It is also questionable whether Jade will ever become a truly big freight airline, such as the aforementioned UPS or FedEx.
Speaking of which, if FedEx or UPS calls today I will be gone tomorrow…
Join Date: Mar 2009
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DT747, an excellent write up about Jade and I would think it would cover most of the jobs in China. I too felt having the picc title to be demeaning as it's the cp's opinion that the picc's have only one purpose with Jade, and that is to babysit the aircraft so the "Pilots" can get rest. There is only one reason Jade has picc's, and that is to save money. The Government requires an extra, full PIC when a heavy crew is required and regards picc's as full pic's and all the checks are done accordingly.
With that bit of a whine out of the way, I get a pretty good chunk of change in the bank every month for just being a babysitter and I've come to the conclusion that it isn't really that big a deal.
For those that are interviewing in December, I think we'll be chatting on tuesday. It's not an easy interview by any means so if you're going to come all this way, be prepared.
With that bit of a whine out of the way, I get a pretty good chunk of change in the bank every month for just being a babysitter and I've come to the conclusion that it isn't really that big a deal.
For those that are interviewing in December, I think we'll be chatting on tuesday. It's not an easy interview by any means so if you're going to come all this way, be prepared.
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Actually, I did hear something like that. But I heard that since Jade Cargo is making so much money, Lufthansa is considering "dumping" the Lufthansa Cargo division and just having Jade do all the cargo business.......
PS. Jade is hiring, so any cargo pilots in Germany that might be on the street soon......
C'mon, stop spreading rumors. Jade isn't a risk to Lufthansa, it's a small part. Ease up a bit.
PS. Jade is hiring, so any cargo pilots in Germany that might be on the street soon......
C'mon, stop spreading rumors. Jade isn't a risk to Lufthansa, it's a small part. Ease up a bit.
Join Date: Mar 2009
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It's difficult to say as your pay grade changes with your experience level, whether you live in China or commute etc.... To give you a ballpark idea make it 65,000 RMB give or take 10,000. The min guarantee is 80 hours a month....