Air Atlanta Icelandic
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: ME
Posts: 5,505
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK so let us look at Saudia Flt 2250, it finally landed at its destination with 3600 kgs of fuel.(B747 TF-AMJ).
What procedures do you have in place to:
1: Record that the flight landed with below minimum fuel.
2: Discovered why this happened?
3: Advise the lessee why this happened.
4: Implement corrective active active to avoid recurrence.
Mutt
What procedures do you have in place to:
1: Record that the flight landed with below minimum fuel.
2: Discovered why this happened?
3: Advise the lessee why this happened.
4: Implement corrective active active to avoid recurrence.
Mutt
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: here and there
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AAIops
AAI ops,
read your post and have a few comments.
Resignations
Wouldn't it be easier to improve T&C's to prevent crews from leaving and spend enormous amounts of money rather than to train new crews over and over again that will also just stay for short periods ?
AAI is not a scheduled Airline
Very true! But this doesn't mean that crews have give up their lives to be available. Day to day rostering has it that even off days disapear and people can't plan anything. Everybody has a private life and it is of course a favour to the company if a crew member goes to work on a rostered off day! In fact this day should be paid extra as well (just like it is for permanent crews).
Icelandic taxes
Fact is that everybody who lives in Europe has to pay taxes somewhere in the range between 20% and 45%.
Keep in mind that contractors have no benefits at all and are paid in U$D with no compensation whatsoever.
Limited resources
Get the required resources - hire professionals, pay their price, fairly simple.
I wish the new management luck quite some work ahead. Maybe things improve for all contractors but management has to wake up now!
read your post and have a few comments.
Resignations
Wouldn't it be easier to improve T&C's to prevent crews from leaving and spend enormous amounts of money rather than to train new crews over and over again that will also just stay for short periods ?
AAI is not a scheduled Airline
Very true! But this doesn't mean that crews have give up their lives to be available. Day to day rostering has it that even off days disapear and people can't plan anything. Everybody has a private life and it is of course a favour to the company if a crew member goes to work on a rostered off day! In fact this day should be paid extra as well (just like it is for permanent crews).
Icelandic taxes
Fact is that everybody who lives in Europe has to pay taxes somewhere in the range between 20% and 45%.
Keep in mind that contractors have no benefits at all and are paid in U$D with no compensation whatsoever.
Limited resources
Get the required resources - hire professionals, pay their price, fairly simple.
I wish the new management luck quite some work ahead. Maybe things improve for all contractors but management has to wake up now!
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Iceland
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you for your post MaxBlow, I feel that you are very factual and I'm happy to see that.
I'll go through your reply and answer every comment you made.
T&C's are being improved with the new the rostering system: 4 weeks on / 10 days off. I hope that will help, but I think that a part of the problem (why crews are leaving) is that the moral is not good enough. Management could help fix that and hopefully they will, but first they have to see the problem and I don't know if they do.
In regards to conditions alone I think that if you compare pay between AAI and other operators in the same field, AAI is not as unfair as some users here on pprune say they are. By browsing through www.ppjn.com you can see that, but I think that AAI could improve in that field, and hopefully the will. Everything happens in small steps, but sometimes they are too few and too small...
Crewing tries to keep changes on rosters to a minimum. Off days should never disappear from your roster, you get a minimum of 7 days per month, if you don't, talk to the Manager of Crew resources. There are rules about this and everyone should adhere to them, if somebody is trying cheat on you he will assist you.
Rostering is not done on a day to day bases, except in Jeddah. SV is constantly changing our schedule so there is just no way that a roster can be issued for 15 days and kept. I think that Rostering has been issuing these rosters with stand-by days and days off. You should only be asked to fly when on stand-by, not on off days.
Favors have been done by crew members, of course! But a roster change is not a favor. If crew members can not accept that their roster will change they are not working for the correct airline. I'm not encouraging anyone to resign, I'm just pointing out a simple fact.
True and not true. As said in my earlier post payments are made to an off shore accounts (or where you ask for it) and because you spend more than half the year away from home you don't pay taxes at home (EU rule I believe). I remember a few Danish guys that left the company because they couldn't go home every 4 weeks to claim their benefits, I don't think they were paying any Danish taxes.
In regards to the benefits; I know that AAI crew members don't get any benefits, but why don't the contractors form a union and demand them? Last year some guys tried to unionize contractors within AAI, but their first action was to strike! How stupid was that? Fist make a union, have everybody join it and then do something. Don't have crew members say if they are in our out by forcing them to strike on the first day if they want to be in. Needless to say only a handful of guys participated in the strike.
Yes, it is fairly simple. But lets put it up like this: You are the Manager of Crew resources and you say to your VP of flight operations: I need 50 pilots for this job, that is the absolute minimum! Then the VP of Flight Ops says: well, then you only get 30! This has been one of the biggest problems within AAI. Hopefully this will be better with new VP of Flight Operations and a new Chief Pilot. They have already started hiring more pilots and hopefully that will help.
And yes, agreed, the management has to wake up! It might be too late tomorrow!
Having said all that I would like you AAI guys who read this pass a message on to your colleagues: If you are unhappy don't bitch about it for the 8, 10 or 12 hrs you are flying. If you are unhappy just write a polite e-mail to HQ in Iceland and say why you are unhappy. If you don't get a reply send it again and again and again until you get a response. Send it to Human Resources, send it to Manager of Crewing, send it to VP of Flight Operations, send it to the Chief Pilot and send it to the CEO! Too often guys go on without saying anything, except to each other or at the most the poor their s**t over some poor ops staff which don't deserve it and can't do anything about it.
I'll let this do for now, I hope you got your answers MaxBlow
I'll go through your reply and answer every comment you made.
Resignations
Wouldn't it be easier to improve T&C's to prevent crews from leaving and spend enormous amounts of money rather than to train new crews over and over again that will also just stay for short periods ?
Wouldn't it be easier to improve T&C's to prevent crews from leaving and spend enormous amounts of money rather than to train new crews over and over again that will also just stay for short periods ?
In regards to conditions alone I think that if you compare pay between AAI and other operators in the same field, AAI is not as unfair as some users here on pprune say they are. By browsing through www.ppjn.com you can see that, but I think that AAI could improve in that field, and hopefully the will. Everything happens in small steps, but sometimes they are too few and too small...
AAI is not a scheduled Airline
Very true! But this doesn't mean that crews have give up their lives to be available. Day to day rostering has it that even off days disappear and people can't plan anything. Everybody has a private life and it is of course a favor to the company if a crew member goes to work on a rostered off day! In fact this day should be paid extra as well (just like it is for permanent crews).
Very true! But this doesn't mean that crews have give up their lives to be available. Day to day rostering has it that even off days disappear and people can't plan anything. Everybody has a private life and it is of course a favor to the company if a crew member goes to work on a rostered off day! In fact this day should be paid extra as well (just like it is for permanent crews).
Rostering is not done on a day to day bases, except in Jeddah. SV is constantly changing our schedule so there is just no way that a roster can be issued for 15 days and kept. I think that Rostering has been issuing these rosters with stand-by days and days off. You should only be asked to fly when on stand-by, not on off days.
Favors have been done by crew members, of course! But a roster change is not a favor. If crew members can not accept that their roster will change they are not working for the correct airline. I'm not encouraging anyone to resign, I'm just pointing out a simple fact.
Icelandic taxes
Fact is that everybody who lives in Europe has to pay taxes somewhere in the range between 20% and 45%.
Keep in mind that contractors have no benefits at all and are paid in U$D with no compensation whatsoever.
Fact is that everybody who lives in Europe has to pay taxes somewhere in the range between 20% and 45%.
Keep in mind that contractors have no benefits at all and are paid in U$D with no compensation whatsoever.
In regards to the benefits; I know that AAI crew members don't get any benefits, but why don't the contractors form a union and demand them? Last year some guys tried to unionize contractors within AAI, but their first action was to strike! How stupid was that? Fist make a union, have everybody join it and then do something. Don't have crew members say if they are in our out by forcing them to strike on the first day if they want to be in. Needless to say only a handful of guys participated in the strike.
Limited resources
Get the required resources - hire professionals, pay their price, fairly simple.
I wish the new management luck quite some work ahead. Maybe things improve for all contractors but management has to wake up now!
Get the required resources - hire professionals, pay their price, fairly simple.
I wish the new management luck quite some work ahead. Maybe things improve for all contractors but management has to wake up now!
And yes, agreed, the management has to wake up! It might be too late tomorrow!
Having said all that I would like you AAI guys who read this pass a message on to your colleagues: If you are unhappy don't bitch about it for the 8, 10 or 12 hrs you are flying. If you are unhappy just write a polite e-mail to HQ in Iceland and say why you are unhappy. If you don't get a reply send it again and again and again until you get a response. Send it to Human Resources, send it to Manager of Crewing, send it to VP of Flight Operations, send it to the Chief Pilot and send it to the CEO! Too often guys go on without saying anything, except to each other or at the most the poor their s**t over some poor ops staff which don't deserve it and can't do anything about it.
I'll let this do for now, I hope you got your answers MaxBlow
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: uae
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AAI Operations
A flight deck commitee would be a good start with members elected by line flight crew. They would represent the flight crew on all matters.
Also an end to the laying off of well qualified crew because someone in engineering or operations does not like them. If the company has a professional problem with someone the crew member must have a chance to defend themselves. This would mean the Chief Pilot and Chief flight engineer would need to be involved to help the crew not yes men for the company.
All bases should be shared fairly no matter where you are from including Iceland. If you do a term in Jeddah then you should have chance of a base elsewhere.
It all boils down to management in Iceland respecting ALL crew members.
Good luck to all.
Also an end to the laying off of well qualified crew because someone in engineering or operations does not like them. If the company has a professional problem with someone the crew member must have a chance to defend themselves. This would mean the Chief Pilot and Chief flight engineer would need to be involved to help the crew not yes men for the company.
All bases should be shared fairly no matter where you are from including Iceland. If you do a term in Jeddah then you should have chance of a base elsewhere.
It all boils down to management in Iceland respecting ALL crew members.
Good luck to all.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Iceland
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you for your post Lostinspace, here are my answers for you. Don't hesitate to shoot back if you feel my answers aren't adequate.
That is a good idea!
Well... They had something that they called "a Forced Vacation" 6 months back. That was due to low demand of flights and unfortunately necessary so the company would survive. But I don't think you are talking about that. When I think back over all the years I have been with AAI, I can only think of two lay-offs where I thought the company was unfair. I guess you guys know of one F/E who got sacked recently, he is one of the unfair ones. Too often pilots have been allowed to go too far before getting laid off. In all cases except in those two I can think of they were well passed their expiration date.
I would have to admit that I would sack 10 or 12 immediately if I held a position to do so. The vast majority of you guys are great, but there are always some that do not belong...
True, but some of you guys are so f***ing pushy, threaten to quit, not take a flight and so on... of course they get what they want... and the nice quiet guys don't get what they request. Some might understand this as a hint that they should behave like the others, but it is not. Please don't! I'm not quite sure, but aren't all Icelanders just based in Iceland?
True, but do you feel they don't? If you are going to say that they like the Icelanders more you are wrong. It is just that the Icelanders have a union.
I would also like to thank Formally Known As for his post.
I would if I could, but I only fly a desk equipped with a dual monitored computer and an IP phone. The pioneer in a pilots union must be a pilot.
That is all for now
p.s. a closed forum for AAI employees might be a good idea, that might be the beginning...
A flight deck commitee would be a good start with members elected by line flight crew. They would represent the flight crew on all matters.
Also an end to the laying off of well qualified crew because someone in engineering or operations does not like them. If the company has a professional problem with someone the crew member must have a chance to defend themselves. This would mean the Chief Pilot and Chief flight engineer would need to be involved to help the crew not yes men for the company.
I would have to admit that I would sack 10 or 12 immediately if I held a position to do so. The vast majority of you guys are great, but there are always some that do not belong...
All bases should be shared fairly no matter where you are from including Iceland. If you do a term in Jeddah then you should have chance of a base elsewhere.
It all boils down to management in Iceland respecting ALL crew members.
I would also like to thank Formally Known As for his post.
Lostinspace could not have made it clearer than that. I suggest you take heed.
That is all for now
p.s. a closed forum for AAI employees might be a good idea, that might be the beginning...
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Here and there
Age: 44
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Firstly I do not work for AAI but I may have a few suggestions that could help.
At the company I work for we do not have a union. We used to have a pilot body that was elected to negotiate with the company on behalf of all crews on issues that effected the pilot body and individuals. That didn’t work so well as when the group didn’t get what the other pilots thought was fair the negotiators were sometimes very harshly criticised and a few even left the company. This created a division and extreme stress in some of the crews for a small gain in T & C’s.
What we do now is pay an Industrial relations lawyer to work on our behalf. Captains pay about $600 and FO’s about $400 per year and that get us a year of his service. We only have a small pilot group and as the company grows and hires more and they join then the costs per member goes down. He has achieved lots more and we have more than covered our costs with increased benefits and conditions. There is no stress to the pilot group, and we have professional legal advice an all matters. He has negotiated our contracts and recently added productivity bonuses.This works really well for us and from what I have read I think it will work well for AAI crews.
We also setup a group forum. The only ones with access are our Lawyer and our pilots.
This is easy to setup and once it is setup then the work required from the pilots is minimum.
Good Luck
At the company I work for we do not have a union. We used to have a pilot body that was elected to negotiate with the company on behalf of all crews on issues that effected the pilot body and individuals. That didn’t work so well as when the group didn’t get what the other pilots thought was fair the negotiators were sometimes very harshly criticised and a few even left the company. This created a division and extreme stress in some of the crews for a small gain in T & C’s.
What we do now is pay an Industrial relations lawyer to work on our behalf. Captains pay about $600 and FO’s about $400 per year and that get us a year of his service. We only have a small pilot group and as the company grows and hires more and they join then the costs per member goes down. He has achieved lots more and we have more than covered our costs with increased benefits and conditions. There is no stress to the pilot group, and we have professional legal advice an all matters. He has negotiated our contracts and recently added productivity bonuses.This works really well for us and from what I have read I think it will work well for AAI crews.
We also setup a group forum. The only ones with access are our Lawyer and our pilots.
This is easy to setup and once it is setup then the work required from the pilots is minimum.
Good Luck
Join Date: May 2007
Location: ITCZ
Age: 72
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have a few friends who worked there a few years ago, late 2004-2005. I have to say, if what they say was true, AAI has to be the worst place in the world to work.
Spoke with someone who just went for an interview in LGW and met the new Chief Pilot. Not very impressive. Job was offered, and job was turned down. No ability to commit to any base or days off. Doesn't seem like things have changed at all.
Spoke with someone who just went for an interview in LGW and met the new Chief Pilot. Not very impressive. Job was offered, and job was turned down. No ability to commit to any base or days off. Doesn't seem like things have changed at all.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Emerald Aisle (LGW)
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A Cry For Help
Hoi all my little cash cows! Oim joost back from anodder o me leetl vaccations to d'Beloovid Emerald Isle. Da BIG difference is lads dat Oi'm gettin a joocy sloice of all yer wages all d'while. Dats whoy I Loove you all so much and put so many years in settin oop all these creative contracts. Clever words and lots of rewards for the boys! Its You Oi'm thinkin of Lads, aal d whoile, You!
Now, since last toime I set all yer restless moinds to rest and terminated the few spoitful leetl sinners causing civil oonrest der, it seems dat inexplicably, some trecherous agents of d Devil have got into Riverdeep, airbourne rats Mountainhigh upyerdrainpoipe and back on the books of this perfect agency agency of moine.
Now as you can imagine dis causes me throat to toighten wit a loomp of emotional sorrow for meself (And you good lads who assume d position wit no protests) Dats the esteemed position of an AAI contractor wid the special place in heaven reserved for ye.
Rest assured lads Oi'm gonna clean out the agitators and restore d loovin peace dat AAI is famous for.
ITS YOU OI'M TINKIN OF LADS...ONLY YOO!!!!!!!!!
Now, since last toime I set all yer restless moinds to rest and terminated the few spoitful leetl sinners causing civil oonrest der, it seems dat inexplicably, some trecherous agents of d Devil have got into Riverdeep, airbourne rats Mountainhigh upyerdrainpoipe and back on the books of this perfect agency agency of moine.
Now as you can imagine dis causes me throat to toighten wit a loomp of emotional sorrow for meself (And you good lads who assume d position wit no protests) Dats the esteemed position of an AAI contractor wid the special place in heaven reserved for ye.
Rest assured lads Oi'm gonna clean out the agitators and restore d loovin peace dat AAI is famous for.
ITS YOU OI'M TINKIN OF LADS...ONLY YOO!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
acmi48
Y dont moan about internal company problems to the customer. That would do no good as the customer is hardly responsible for the actions or conditions the ACMI operator or their crewing company choose to impose.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Iceland
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
rsull said:
What we do now is pay an Industrial relations lawyer to work on our behalf. Captains pay about $600 and FO’s about $400 per year and that get us a year of his service. We only have a small pilot group and as the company grows and hires more and they join then the costs per member goes down. He has achieved lots more and we have more than covered our costs with increased benefits and conditions. There is no stress to the pilot group, and we have professional legal advice an all matters. He has negotiated our contracts and recently added productivity bonuses.This works really well for us and from what I have read I think it will work well for AAI crews.
We also setup a group forum. The only ones with access are our Lawyer and our pilots.
What we do now is pay an Industrial relations lawyer to work on our behalf. Captains pay about $600 and FO’s about $400 per year and that get us a year of his service. We only have a small pilot group and as the company grows and hires more and they join then the costs per member goes down. He has achieved lots more and we have more than covered our costs with increased benefits and conditions. There is no stress to the pilot group, and we have professional legal advice an all matters. He has negotiated our contracts and recently added productivity bonuses.This works really well for us and from what I have read I think it will work well for AAI crews.
We also setup a group forum. The only ones with access are our Lawyer and our pilots.
paddy in the east said:
I have a few friends who worked there a few years ago...
I have a few friends who worked there a few years ago...
acmi48 said:
as an aaic acmi user .. have not had any negative feed back from the pilot community flying on our contracts
as an aaic acmi user .. have not had any negative feed back from the pilot community flying on our contracts
Yobbo said:
4weeks on - 10 days off Typical of AAI, good idea but not quite right! How about 4 weeks on - 2 weeks off?
4weeks on - 10 days off Typical of AAI, good idea but not quite right! How about 4 weeks on - 2 weeks off?