Cl-44-o and swingtail merged
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What a nice thought, however sorry to p*** on your party but registration could be somewhat problematic. The Guppy is a one off and getting her certified anywhere acceptable to UK authorities would be very difficult unless the Irish will have her back. I think her future lies on a flag of convienience registration.
Though anything can happen after refusing for years to register CV-580, Hercules and Electras apparently because of their engine fire extinguishing arrangements the did a swift 180 degree and back track.
Now if Lockheed hadn't forced the RB211s to be carried 3 at a time on Herks and used Conroy Guppies 5 a time for Tristar production the other 4 Guppies would have been built....................................................... ..............................................
Hello Nurse medication time is it?
Be lucky
David
Though anything can happen after refusing for years to register CV-580, Hercules and Electras apparently because of their engine fire extinguishing arrangements the did a swift 180 degree and back track.
Now if Lockheed hadn't forced the RB211s to be carried 3 at a time on Herks and used Conroy Guppies 5 a time for Tristar production the other 4 Guppies would have been built....................................................... ..............................................
Hello Nurse medication time is it?
Be lucky
David
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The standard 44 was very practical for night freight. The French post office used one for ages out of Orly. Could take up to 20 Friendship containers, achieving quick turnrounds by using two hi-loaders back to back at the swingtail.
...and 4 Tynes make much less noise than 2 Darts.
...and 4 Tynes make much less noise than 2 Darts.
The standard 44 was very practical for night freight. The French post office used one for ages out of Orly. Could take up to 20 Friendship containers, achieving quick turnrounds by using two hi-loaders back to back at the swingtail.
...and 4 Tynes make much less noise than 2 Darts.
...and 4 Tynes make much less noise than 2 Darts.
Hmm... I'm not sure about the last bit, having lived near EMA for a few years...controllers used to give Merchantmen their own noise abatement tracks if working on easterly departures.
Avgas Dinosaur - did three RB211s on an Albert bring it somewhere near to MTOW for a sector like EMA-REK? I seem to recall some very long rolls at EMA, even in sub-zero temperatures.
r
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Tis abit sad that the Guppy has `roosted` in the UK for such a long time, US reg, Irish reg, etc, etc and yet the chances of it earning its keep in the UK now seem to be all gone. Hope we all get some notice of its departure from Hurn - would be nice to see her once more in the air.....
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The four Tynes on a Merchantman seemed to have a higher frequency sound than those on the 44. The Merch props are smaller and probably operated at a higher RPM than the 16' props on the Canadair, which has a much deeper rumble from the more powerful prop/engine combination.
As for carrying RB211 engines, the problem surely is one of bulk, not weight. The heaviest RB211, (the 524-d4) weighs 4480kgs.
I am sure the Guppy can take 25tons out of EMA on an isa day.
As for carrying RB211 engines, the problem surely is one of bulk, not weight. The heaviest RB211, (the 524-d4) weighs 4480kgs.
I am sure the Guppy can take 25tons out of EMA on an isa day.
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Hmm... I'm not sure about the last bit, having lived near EMA for a few years...controllers used to give Merchantmen their own noise abatement tracks if working on easterly departures.
Avgas Dinosaur - did three RB211s on an Albert bring it somewhere near to MTOW for a sector like EMA-REK? I seem to recall some very long rolls at EMA, even in sub-zero temperatures.
r
Avgas Dinosaur - did three RB211s on an Albert bring it somewhere near to MTOW for a sector like EMA-REK? I seem to recall some very long rolls at EMA, even in sub-zero temperatures.
r
You figure it out. Except of course look who the RB-211s were for Lockheed Corporation Tristarsand who makes Hercules?Lockheed Corporation I dont think Jack Conroy ever saw a level playing field much less got to play on one.Be lucky
David
Perhaps one of our Derby based contributors can throw some light on the weight angle ?
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Depending on the model the RB211 engine weighed between 7000 and nearly 10000 lbs. Not sure the weight of a transit frame, etc.
Would they be moved dry or with fluids....?
Would they be moved dry or with fluids....?
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RB211 figures
Some weights here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-R...ng_Particulars
Trolley or frame not included of course.
No indication as to whether this is just the engine, or a fully built powerplant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-R...ng_Particulars
Trolley or frame not included of course.
No indication as to whether this is just the engine, or a fully built powerplant.
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RB 211 Figures
Gentlemen,
Being one of the former 'Limey' Members of the Transamerica (TV) Ops Control group during those 'wonderful' years, I can confirm that TV operated the L-100-300 Herks EGNX-BIKF-CYFB/CYVP-CYWG-KPMD carrying 3 RB211s per trip.
These 3 engines brought the Herk up to MXZFWT to the extent that TV had to pre-position spare wheels, radios, etc. at each en-route airport as they couldn't be carried on the aircraft (wonder if those spares are still there?)!
Anyway, the worst sector for flight planning was BIKF-CYFB/CYVP(?) as the nearest alternate was CYYR! Had the occasional divert to BGSF due prevailing winds!
Ah, what fun! Adding to the fun was caring for a bunch of B747s, DC-10-30s, DC-8-73s and L-188s! Wonderful
!
Bring back 'The Good Old Days'!
Cheers
thetexpat
Being one of the former 'Limey' Members of the Transamerica (TV) Ops Control group during those 'wonderful' years, I can confirm that TV operated the L-100-300 Herks EGNX-BIKF-CYFB/CYVP-CYWG-KPMD carrying 3 RB211s per trip.
These 3 engines brought the Herk up to MXZFWT to the extent that TV had to pre-position spare wheels, radios, etc. at each en-route airport as they couldn't be carried on the aircraft (wonder if those spares are still there?)!
Anyway, the worst sector for flight planning was BIKF-CYFB/CYVP(?) as the nearest alternate was CYYR! Had the occasional divert to BGSF due prevailing winds!
Ah, what fun! Adding to the fun was caring for a bunch of B747s, DC-10-30s, DC-8-73s and L-188s! Wonderful
!Bring back 'The Good Old Days'!
Cheers
thetexpat
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I don't know the sector lengths, but your RZFWT must have been around 110,000lbs on the l100-30 with 3 rb1211s. Could get over 20 tons of fuel on with that load.
What was the limiting and regulating factor, the MLWT or a RTOW?
I am trying to understand more, as to why the Guppy was such a viable project.
What was the limiting and regulating factor, the MLWT or a RTOW?
I am trying to understand more, as to why the Guppy was such a viable project.
Last edited by Nineiron; 26th Nov 2006 at 23:40. Reason: figures
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Nineiron
As you're aware, it was many years (decades
!) ago that we performed these flights!
Based upon the following information from the SAFAIR website
(http://www.safair.co.za/)
Weight
Maximum certified take-off weight 70 307kg (155 000lbs)
Maximum certified landing weight 61 235kg (135 000lbs)
Maximum certified zero fuel weight 57 727kg (127 000lbs)
Basic empty weight 34 545kg ( 76 000lbs)
Average APS weight 35 000kg ( 77 000lbs)
I'd say it was the MXLWT!
That would leave you with approx 4tons of fuel at destination. Not too much if you have to divert to CYYR, a distance of 779mls! !
G/C distance is 1373 per http://gc.kls2.com/
Cheers
thetexpat
!) ago that we performed these flights!Based upon the following information from the SAFAIR website
(http://www.safair.co.za/)
Weight
Maximum certified take-off weight 70 307kg (155 000lbs)
Maximum certified landing weight 61 235kg (135 000lbs)
Maximum certified zero fuel weight 57 727kg (127 000lbs)
Basic empty weight 34 545kg ( 76 000lbs)
Average APS weight 35 000kg ( 77 000lbs)
I'd say it was the MXLWT!
That would leave you with approx 4tons of fuel at destination. Not too much if you have to divert to CYYR, a distance of 779mls!
!G/C distance is 1373 per http://gc.kls2.com/
Cheers
thetexpat
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Just had a look at my old TMAC loading manual (yes, I'm one of those sad people that has a full attic!)
Heres some figures for comparison
MTOWT 210,000
MLWT 165,000
MZFW 160,000
Guppy basic weight 98,500
APS Fr/Lr config. 102,000
Therefore maxload 58,000
So with 3x 10,000lb RB 211 engines on board it could land with about 15 tons of fuel. The cargo bay is 84' long (with another 14' in the swingtail) . It would have been able to manage 5 engines and land with about the same amount of fuel as the L100.
Politics and the loss of the aircraft in Anchorage put a stop on the second Guppy being built.
Heres some figures for comparison
MTOWT 210,000
MLWT 165,000
MZFW 160,000
Guppy basic weight 98,500
APS Fr/Lr config. 102,000
Therefore maxload 58,000
So with 3x 10,000lb RB 211 engines on board it could land with about 15 tons of fuel. The cargo bay is 84' long (with another 14' in the swingtail) . It would have been able to manage 5 engines and land with about the same amount of fuel as the L100.
Politics and the loss of the aircraft in Anchorage put a stop on the second Guppy being built.
Those Hercs. used to roll and roll. I also seem to recall that the RB211s were a very tight fit..
To correct the thread drift, and by contrast, an Aer Turas CL44 out of Castle Donington, with a lone racehorse on board, rotated way before the first intersection on 28 (as it was then).
Amazing. Wind straight down the runway, but not too strong. It almost like watching a very large motor glider, with about the same nose level. What a graceful aeroplane!
Why do politics and commercial shenanigans kill off the best machines?
r
To correct the thread drift, and by contrast, an Aer Turas CL44 out of Castle Donington, with a lone racehorse on board, rotated way before the first intersection on 28 (as it was then).
Amazing. Wind straight down the runway, but not too strong. It almost like watching a very large motor glider, with about the same nose level. What a graceful aeroplane!
Why do politics and commercial shenanigans kill off the best machines?
r
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The J model really was a beautiful looking aeroplane. A racehorse indeed.
Those extra few feet made a big difference to the cockpit noise level which added to the 'grace and pace' feeling. Had to remember the extra length when taxying though!
Those extra few feet made a big difference to the cockpit noise level which added to the 'grace and pace' feeling. Had to remember the extra length when taxying though!
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I think I've found a CL-44J survivor at Tripoli International
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0642391/L/
Google earth 32 39 35.37 N 13 09 44.74 E a quick cut and paste in the flyto box and decend to 250' agl.
Does anyone know if she is still there
Be lucky
David
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0642391/L/
Google earth 32 39 35.37 N 13 09 44.74 E a quick cut and paste in the flyto box and decend to 250' agl.
Does anyone know if she is still there
Be lucky
David
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The CL44 in Libya is a 'D4' model not a 'J'. It was ex Transvalair/Tradewinds I believe.
Last I heard the dump was due to be cleared for airport development. Interestingly the Brazzaville aircraft is also ex UAA/Transvalair.
Last I heard the dump was due to be cleared for airport development. Interestingly the Brazzaville aircraft is also ex UAA/Transvalair.
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I remember seeing one of the T-A-R 44's at LGW and have some photos of it taken with my then brand new Olympus OM1. I once flew with BAF from Southend to Ostend and on that Saturday they had Carvair G-ASDC a leased in Alidair Viscount G-AVIW and a CL44 flying the route. We got the Carvair and the Viscount so sadly I never got to fly in a 44,
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The CL44-D4 at Tripoli last flew in 1981. Upon arrival the only snag was a u/s oil pressure gauge. Somehow the a/c became a source of spares for the other two. By 1983 ( the last time i saw her, parked by the GA area ) she was just a bare shell. Nice to see the old girl still survives, together with a couple of 707`s, also possibly ex United African Airlines. Happy memories of a sometimes difficult time in North Africa, and regions further south........