Cathay & HKCAD colour vision requirements
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Cathay & HKCAD colour vision requirements
Greetings,
I have a few questions regarding the medical process for colour vision at Cathay. In December, I completed the final interview in Hong Kong for the Second Officer position. Unfortunately, the medical department has stated that I have a weakness in colour vision and require an FAA OCVT (operational colour vision test) or UKCAA colour vision testing for colour deficiency.
Prior to the selection process, I held a Canadian ATPL with an unrestricted class 1 medical. After I completed the Cathay medical, the colour vision results did not meet HKCAD requirements. Subsequently, Cathay has asked me to complete an FAA OCVT, which is a secondary practical test given by an FAA inspection who will determine if your colour vision is suitable for a Class1.
Since I only held a Canadian Class 1 medical, the FAA initially required me to complete and fail the colour vision portion of their class 1 medical prior to making a request for an OCVT. Now here is where the problem lies! Recently, I successfully completed the FAA Class One medical certificate with no restrictions, in which the colour vision test comprised of the AOH-R-R-Pseudoisochromatic plates.
Given that I passed the colour vision requirements for the FAA, the Eastern aerospace division will not authorize an OCVT. As a rule, an OCVT is only mandatory in cases where an applicant fails the colour vision portion of the initial FAA Class 1 medical; and is then requested through the Civil Aerospace Medical Institute (AAM-300). Upon seeking special permission for an OCVT from the FAA Eastern Regional Flight Surgeon, she would not approve it since I have passed the medical. Furthermore, they do not provide secondary test for employment purposes. Presently, the Cathay medical department sill insist on the necessity of the OCVT, regardless of the FAA class 1. Has anybody ever encountered this problem before?
It would be greatly appreciated if somebody can provide insight as to what can be done to satisfy the HKCAD requirements. As well, has anybody completed the UKCAA test at Gatwick for colour vision? Can a request be made for the test directly, or do I have to do a JAA medical first?
Thanking you in advance for your time and attention.
Fly Safe,
-1900_Driver
I have a few questions regarding the medical process for colour vision at Cathay. In December, I completed the final interview in Hong Kong for the Second Officer position. Unfortunately, the medical department has stated that I have a weakness in colour vision and require an FAA OCVT (operational colour vision test) or UKCAA colour vision testing for colour deficiency.
Prior to the selection process, I held a Canadian ATPL with an unrestricted class 1 medical. After I completed the Cathay medical, the colour vision results did not meet HKCAD requirements. Subsequently, Cathay has asked me to complete an FAA OCVT, which is a secondary practical test given by an FAA inspection who will determine if your colour vision is suitable for a Class1.
Since I only held a Canadian Class 1 medical, the FAA initially required me to complete and fail the colour vision portion of their class 1 medical prior to making a request for an OCVT. Now here is where the problem lies! Recently, I successfully completed the FAA Class One medical certificate with no restrictions, in which the colour vision test comprised of the AOH-R-R-Pseudoisochromatic plates.
Given that I passed the colour vision requirements for the FAA, the Eastern aerospace division will not authorize an OCVT. As a rule, an OCVT is only mandatory in cases where an applicant fails the colour vision portion of the initial FAA Class 1 medical; and is then requested through the Civil Aerospace Medical Institute (AAM-300). Upon seeking special permission for an OCVT from the FAA Eastern Regional Flight Surgeon, she would not approve it since I have passed the medical. Furthermore, they do not provide secondary test for employment purposes. Presently, the Cathay medical department sill insist on the necessity of the OCVT, regardless of the FAA class 1. Has anybody ever encountered this problem before?
It would be greatly appreciated if somebody can provide insight as to what can be done to satisfy the HKCAD requirements. As well, has anybody completed the UKCAA test at Gatwick for colour vision? Can a request be made for the test directly, or do I have to do a JAA medical first?
Thanking you in advance for your time and attention.
Fly Safe,
-1900_Driver
Why CX?
I cant help you with your colour vision question but why aren't you trying airlines in Canada first rather than rushing to CX on C scale.
As an ATPL holder and 1900 pilot you are overqualified to be an icadet and will be underpaid; also your own airlines wont make you take additional tests since you already have a full Canadian class 1 medical.
As an ATPL holder and 1900 pilot you are overqualified to be an icadet and will be underpaid; also your own airlines wont make you take additional tests since you already have a full Canadian class 1 medical.
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Colour vision
I agree with some of the other replys you have and will be getting.
Going to CX is not the job it once was.
Stay away if you can, if you have a good job now, keep it.
You will be making beds and getting WX for years before you get an F/O seat, and then years more before you have the privelege of being beaten up and degraded by the CX checkers while moving to the left seat.
Get on any place else you can find a spot.
S/O pay in HKG will be very disappointing....
Sorry Mate...
Going to CX is not the job it once was.
Stay away if you can, if you have a good job now, keep it.
You will be making beds and getting WX for years before you get an F/O seat, and then years more before you have the privelege of being beaten up and degraded by the CX checkers while moving to the left seat.
Get on any place else you can find a spot.
S/O pay in HKG will be very disappointing....
Sorry Mate...
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Unfortunately the Canadian aviation industry isn't something to be bragging about right now either. Take a look at the regional market where it's starting to look more and more like the US every day, you have multiple carriers trying to undercut one another and of course going to the lowest bidder. If he's flying a 1900 in Canada, then there's a good chance it's for one of Air Canada's Tier III carriers, that start their pilots at $27k a yr (no typo).
And if he does go to the legacy carrier in Canada, or the Titanic in other terms, it's $39k to start. And that's to live in Toronto, it's not Hong Kong, but still, expensive non the less. Big red posted a loss of $236 million over the first 3 quarters of 2011 and it's a matter of time before they file for bankruptcy once again, most likely in a few years when the pension fund needs topping off.
So there's his choices, stay in Canada making $30k a yr flying for the regionals, in hopes of getting that job that starts at $39k a yr for a carrier with an uncertain future or continue to peruse CX. I'm not saying to choose one over the other, but it's not a bed of roses here in Canada either.
And if he does go to the legacy carrier in Canada, or the Titanic in other terms, it's $39k to start. And that's to live in Toronto, it's not Hong Kong, but still, expensive non the less. Big red posted a loss of $236 million over the first 3 quarters of 2011 and it's a matter of time before they file for bankruptcy once again, most likely in a few years when the pension fund needs topping off.
So there's his choices, stay in Canada making $30k a yr flying for the regionals, in hopes of getting that job that starts at $39k a yr for a carrier with an uncertain future or continue to peruse CX. I'm not saying to choose one over the other, but it's not a bed of roses here in Canada either.
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So there's his choices, stay in Canada making $30k a yr flying for the regionals, in hopes of getting that job that starts at $39k a yr for a carrier with an uncertain future or continue to peruse CX. I'm not saying to choose one over the other, but it's not a bed of roses here in Canada either.
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If he's a 1900 capt he's making 65+.
Seeing WJ is starting a q400 service he could
walk into a command there for more cash.
Likely 85-90k.
Less money than CX, less cost, and labour protection.
Seeing WJ is starting a q400 service he could
walk into a command there for more cash.
Likely 85-90k.
Less money than CX, less cost, and labour protection.
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$65k for a 1900 driver in Canada?! Dream on! Here is the pay scale for Central Mountain Air, one of AC's Tier III operators. The other two are Air Georgian and EVAS, both operating 1900's as well, and all three with similar pay structures.
Airline Pilot Central - Central Mountain Air | Canadian
Even the top pay rate as a 12 year captain you still won't see $65k, so not sure where your getting these numbers from. And as for Westjet's regional service, that is still being voted on by the pilot group until early next month, and they have stated that it won't be into service until 2013 or 2014, if it happens to go through. Go to avcanada.ca and look at the WJ forum, see for yourself what the proposed terms and conditions are what everyone has to say about it. And don't think it will be that easy to just "walk into a command position" with them either
Airline Pilot Central - Central Mountain Air | Canadian
Even the top pay rate as a 12 year captain you still won't see $65k, so not sure where your getting these numbers from. And as for Westjet's regional service, that is still being voted on by the pilot group until early next month, and they have stated that it won't be into service until 2013 or 2014, if it happens to go through. Go to avcanada.ca and look at the WJ forum, see for yourself what the proposed terms and conditions are what everyone has to say about it. And don't think it will be that easy to just "walk into a command position" with them either
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Not going to argue with you mate, I was making 65k flying a PC12 and 80 flying a metro 10 years ago.. The pay scale you pointed out @ CMA is quite correct as each "year" is really 500 turbine PIC.. so if you had 0 @ the start you'd be at top pay in 6 years..
I'm on B scale in HK, and today home in Vancouver, looking at jobs back home.
I can't imagine staying in HK for C scale.. you'd go broke.
I'm on B scale in HK, and today home in Vancouver, looking at jobs back home.
I can't imagine staying in HK for C scale.. you'd go broke.
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Ya I don't mean to start an argument here either, but just trying to point out that it's pretty easy for someone to come on here and tell other people to say no to Cathay without knowing anyone's personal details or situations. I am in the generation where this was the offer that was on the table when I had the experience to be selected for the interview process.
I interviewed for the transition course last year and was successful in the process. This was a hard decision for myself because i had recently been unsuccessful for an interview process with Canada's major airline. I have read through the numerous threads on this site and was well aware of all the negative information that was being posted by experienced pilots. Fortunately for me, I recieved a different offer, from the teal team, before I had to make my decision with Cathay.
I know transition guys with Cathay on this "C" scale, that are either on line right now, in Adelaide, or awaiting a course date and I can tell you that most of them have either went through the interview process with one or both of the two major airlines in Canada and unfortunately never made it through. From the guys I know, I can tell you that for most of them, Cathay was not their first choice for a career airline. So for most guys, myself included, wanting to stay in Canada and fly for an airline here was top priority, but unfortunately for some not everyone can get on with these airlines and now look to Cathay as an alternative than flying with the regionals in Canada, or hoping for a second chance at getting called back for another interview. I only wish B scale was still being offered, so until then maybe I'll see you at the Flying Beaver for a cold one. Cheers
I interviewed for the transition course last year and was successful in the process. This was a hard decision for myself because i had recently been unsuccessful for an interview process with Canada's major airline. I have read through the numerous threads on this site and was well aware of all the negative information that was being posted by experienced pilots. Fortunately for me, I recieved a different offer, from the teal team, before I had to make my decision with Cathay.
I know transition guys with Cathay on this "C" scale, that are either on line right now, in Adelaide, or awaiting a course date and I can tell you that most of them have either went through the interview process with one or both of the two major airlines in Canada and unfortunately never made it through. From the guys I know, I can tell you that for most of them, Cathay was not their first choice for a career airline. So for most guys, myself included, wanting to stay in Canada and fly for an airline here was top priority, but unfortunately for some not everyone can get on with these airlines and now look to Cathay as an alternative than flying with the regionals in Canada, or hoping for a second chance at getting called back for another interview. I only wish B scale was still being offered, so until then maybe I'll see you at the Flying Beaver for a cold one. Cheers
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Pass CAD
I would suggest trying another regional flight surgeon or ask the institute directly for the test.
Alternatively take and pass an initial CAD class one medical, try DR O'Tremba at Vio and partners. CX are only interested in you passing the medical, ask them what further colour vision test would be done in HK.
Maybe go to UK and get the CAA test done. I'd be a bit wary of doing the FAA test in case you fail and lose that medical!
Alternatively take and pass an initial CAD class one medical, try DR O'Tremba at Vio and partners. CX are only interested in you passing the medical, ask them what further colour vision test would be done in HK.
Maybe go to UK and get the CAA test done. I'd be a bit wary of doing the FAA test in case you fail and lose that medical!
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colour vision for CX
Hi ,
I was up in HK earlier this year doing the stage 2 interviews.
During my medical I had to do the CAD test as I am a bit colour deficient. I did not pass it and i was advised If i could obtain an FAA medical i would meet HK standards. So I would need to get an Operational colour vision test and medical flight test done to obtain a FAA medical.
I live in Australia and currently hold a CASA class 1 medical with no restrictions.
So if someone could pls advise what is involved in these FAA colour vision tests and if is it possible to do them here in Australia.
I was up in HK earlier this year doing the stage 2 interviews.
During my medical I had to do the CAD test as I am a bit colour deficient. I did not pass it and i was advised If i could obtain an FAA medical i would meet HK standards. So I would need to get an Operational colour vision test and medical flight test done to obtain a FAA medical.
I live in Australia and currently hold a CASA class 1 medical with no restrictions.
So if someone could pls advise what is involved in these FAA colour vision tests and if is it possible to do them here in Australia.
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Hi coke zero,
I want the job I am not debating that.
As I would have to pay for everything, it can be a expensive exercise so I was just trying to see if anyone can share any info, if i can take these tests here in Australia.
Thanks.
I want the job I am not debating that.
As I would have to pay for everything, it can be a expensive exercise so I was just trying to see if anyone can share any info, if i can take these tests here in Australia.
Thanks.
constellaton,
If you go to the CASA website, under Aviation Medicals, then under search for a Medical Examiner, then select DAMEs approved to conduct medicals for Overseas Flight Crew Licensing Authorities. You will find out doctors approved to do FAA Medicals.
You have a few options in Sydney.
The FAA medical is straight forward, you normally need to do part of it online before seeing the doctor. The FAA has 8 different tests that can be used.
Aerospace Medical Dispositions
Item 52. Color Vision
An applicant does not meet the color vision standard if testing reveals:
All Classes
Seven or more errors on plates 1-15 of the AOC (1965 edition) pseudoisochromatic plates.
AOC-HRR (second edition): Any error in test plates 7-11. Because the first 4 plates in the test book are for demonstration only, test plate 7 is actually the eleventh plate in the book. (See instruction booklet.)
Seven or more errors on plates 1-15 of Dvorine pseudoisochromatic plates (second edition, 15 plates.)
Six or more errors on plates 1-11 of the concise 14-plate edition of the Ishihara pseudoisochromatic plates. Seven or more errors on plates 1-15 of the 24-plate edition of Ishihara pseudoisochromatic plates. Nine or more errors on plates 1-21 of the 38-plate edition of Ishihara pseudoisochromatic plates.
Seven or more errors on plates 1-15 of the Richmond (1983 edition) pseudoisochromatic plates.
Farnsworth Lantern test: An average of more than one error per series of nine color pairs in series 2 and 3. (See instruction booklet.)
Any errors in the six plates of the Titmus Vision Tester, the Titmus II Vision Tester, the Titmus 2 Vision Tester, the OPTEC 2000 Vision Tester, the OPTEC 900 Vision Tester the Keystone Orthoscope, or Keystone Telebinocular.
LKC Technologies, Inc., APT-5 Color Vision Tester. The letter must be correctly identified in at least two of the three presentations of each test condition. (See APT-5 screening chart for FAA-related testing in instruction booklet.)
If you go to the CASA website, under Aviation Medicals, then under search for a Medical Examiner, then select DAMEs approved to conduct medicals for Overseas Flight Crew Licensing Authorities. You will find out doctors approved to do FAA Medicals.
You have a few options in Sydney.
The FAA medical is straight forward, you normally need to do part of it online before seeing the doctor. The FAA has 8 different tests that can be used.
Aerospace Medical Dispositions
Item 52. Color Vision
An applicant does not meet the color vision standard if testing reveals:
All Classes
Seven or more errors on plates 1-15 of the AOC (1965 edition) pseudoisochromatic plates.
AOC-HRR (second edition): Any error in test plates 7-11. Because the first 4 plates in the test book are for demonstration only, test plate 7 is actually the eleventh plate in the book. (See instruction booklet.)
Seven or more errors on plates 1-15 of Dvorine pseudoisochromatic plates (second edition, 15 plates.)
Six or more errors on plates 1-11 of the concise 14-plate edition of the Ishihara pseudoisochromatic plates. Seven or more errors on plates 1-15 of the 24-plate edition of Ishihara pseudoisochromatic plates. Nine or more errors on plates 1-21 of the 38-plate edition of Ishihara pseudoisochromatic plates.
Seven or more errors on plates 1-15 of the Richmond (1983 edition) pseudoisochromatic plates.
Farnsworth Lantern test: An average of more than one error per series of nine color pairs in series 2 and 3. (See instruction booklet.)
Any errors in the six plates of the Titmus Vision Tester, the Titmus II Vision Tester, the Titmus 2 Vision Tester, the OPTEC 2000 Vision Tester, the OPTEC 900 Vision Tester the Keystone Orthoscope, or Keystone Telebinocular.
LKC Technologies, Inc., APT-5 Color Vision Tester. The letter must be correctly identified in at least two of the three presentations of each test condition. (See APT-5 screening chart for FAA-related testing in instruction booklet.)
