Freighter Jump Seat
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Europe
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Don't get me wrong, mingle. Different groups of staff get different advantages (company car, laptop, phones...)
So why should you be complaining if we get something that might make our life easier? Because you can't have it? Come on...
Being away from home 15 days a month, I even think we should be entitled to take our wife/kids on some long freighter trips.
And actually, I don't mind having some ground staff jumpseating on a cargo airplane if they so wish.
So why should you be complaining if we get something that might make our life easier? Because you can't have it? Come on...
Being away from home 15 days a month, I even think we should be entitled to take our wife/kids on some long freighter trips.
And actually, I don't mind having some ground staff jumpseating on a cargo airplane if they so wish.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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minglestar
Just remember, without ground staff (marketing, sales, ramp, operations), you pilots would not have employment, let alone a $200m aircraft to fly.
Remember, it was pilots who started this business and pilots who employed clerks like yourself to take care of things when we were up there. If we decide not to come to work (and thats an entirely different discussion) you're out of a job, If you decide not to come to work, we employ another clerk.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: US
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Hmm, can anyone name another major carrier that won't allow pilots to JS on their own carrier? Ground staff and Cabin crew, excellent! I am happy everyone is interested in this issue, let's work together as an airline to get this very basic benefit! An easy battle to win with minimal economic impact. Who writes the ops specs? Oh yeah we do!
minglestar,
If one of the staff at the marketing, sales, ramp, or operations department doesn't show up for work one day, nobody would notice.
If one of the Aircrew doesn't show up to work, that flight stops and the entire operation is affected.
Don't forget it!!
Just remember, without ground staff (marketing, sales, ramp, operations), you pilots would not have employment, let alone a $200m aircraft to fly.
If one of the Aircrew doesn't show up to work, that flight stops and the entire operation is affected.
Don't forget it!!
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Canada
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foward cofg and asianeage:
oh plssssss..... from your posts, it suggests your knowledge of commercial airline operations are very limited, and very ignorant of other aspects that makes the whole operation works. Pilots might have pioneered commercial aviation, but nowadays pilots are just one of many parts needed for a smooth, safe, and economical operation.
Granted that flights will not need be delayed if a marketing manager fails to show up for work. But if a ground engineer fails to show up for work, the plane isn't going anywhere until it is signed-off by the licensed engineer.
Your sense of importance of the role of the pilot in the whole operation is way over-estimated. Pilots can be replaced as easily as ground engineers, ramp agents, cabin crew, marketing managers can be replaced. No one is irreplaceable. Airline operations will not ground to a halt if a few not show up for work.
Also remember, without marketing and sales, there will be no money to pay you and buy shiny new planes. Do not forget it.
oh plssssss..... from your posts, it suggests your knowledge of commercial airline operations are very limited, and very ignorant of other aspects that makes the whole operation works. Pilots might have pioneered commercial aviation, but nowadays pilots are just one of many parts needed for a smooth, safe, and economical operation.
Granted that flights will not need be delayed if a marketing manager fails to show up for work. But if a ground engineer fails to show up for work, the plane isn't going anywhere until it is signed-off by the licensed engineer.
Your sense of importance of the role of the pilot in the whole operation is way over-estimated. Pilots can be replaced as easily as ground engineers, ramp agents, cabin crew, marketing managers can be replaced. No one is irreplaceable. Airline operations will not ground to a halt if a few not show up for work.
Also remember, without marketing and sales, there will be no money to pay you and buy shiny new planes. Do not forget it.
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Spanners, yes it is somewhat embarrasing, but it is also good for a laugh.
I'm on my second bucket of popcorn already.
On a realistic note, my 2c worth is that I would far prefer that operational crew, ie engineers, pilots etc who are aircraft savvy, and have had a modicum of firefighting training, or, who could provide practical help for any number of possible in flight drama recovery situations, were allowed to jumpseat on the freighter.
No sleight intended to the paper pushers, it's just that most would be more of a hindrance than a help. The probability of them having the spine, training or skillset to don the firefighting kit and play fireman, (or firechick - if one is to be pc), is I believe somewhat remote. There's a greater chance they would just freak out and be an additional problem.
Consequently, I'd rather they, and mingestar, stayed shuffling papers or took a regular passenger flight.
I'm on my second bucket of popcorn already.
On a realistic note, my 2c worth is that I would far prefer that operational crew, ie engineers, pilots etc who are aircraft savvy, and have had a modicum of firefighting training, or, who could provide practical help for any number of possible in flight drama recovery situations, were allowed to jumpseat on the freighter.
No sleight intended to the paper pushers, it's just that most would be more of a hindrance than a help. The probability of them having the spine, training or skillset to don the firefighting kit and play fireman, (or firechick - if one is to be pc), is I believe somewhat remote. There's a greater chance they would just freak out and be an additional problem.
Consequently, I'd rather they, and mingestar, stayed shuffling papers or took a regular passenger flight.
The use of freighter jumpseats AND upper deck seats frees up demand for seats on pax flight for all to use. As a result EVERYONE benefits.
At the end of the day we are talking about getting families together in times of high loadings eg Xmas/Chinese new year etc.
The jumpseat and who sits in such is the Captain's prerogative and, interestingly, it is a potential revenue stream that the company has yet to take advantage of.
Yes, for those of you trolling this site, CX makes a tidy profit from staff travel.
At the end of the day we are talking about getting families together in times of high loadings eg Xmas/Chinese new year etc.
The jumpseat and who sits in such is the Captain's prerogative and, interestingly, it is a potential revenue stream that the company has yet to take advantage of.
Yes, for those of you trolling this site, CX makes a tidy profit from staff travel.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: hongkong
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Freighter aircraft aren't equipped for passengers. We don't carry cabin crew to aid in the event of an evacuation and as such ground staff really aren't appropriate. I feel appropriately qualified personnel who are evacuation qualified could be considered. I'm afraid its a self help programme on freighter.
Nothing to do with prejudice. And great to hear so many of you wanting to come fly with us. I hope you understand. Fill your boots on the PAX fleet and enjoy the wonderful CX service and IFE.
BP
Nothing to do with prejudice. And great to hear so many of you wanting to come fly with us. I hope you understand. Fill your boots on the PAX fleet and enjoy the wonderful CX service and IFE.
BP
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: HK
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minglestar
Did we fail pilot training?
We are all in the team. But when it comes to giving YOU the jumpseat it is the Captain's decision. Attitude / reputation will probably come into play in that decision making process!
Did we fail pilot training?
We are all in the team. But when it comes to giving YOU the jumpseat it is the Captain's decision. Attitude / reputation will probably come into play in that decision making process!
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Crew bunk
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It is against the CAD rules for carriage of non operating personnel on Hong Kong registered freighters.
And why should pilots be given the additional option of getting jumpseat on freigthers over other employees of the company (for leisure travel purposes)?
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Simple -- because an extra pilot in the cockpit is an asset (an extra set of eyes who can spot safety concerns). That's why we have 4 guys up front for takeoff and landing during long hauls. Anyone else is a liability or safety hazard in the cockpit. Can you understand the ATC radio transmissions enough to stop talking if you hear a call midway through your life's story? Would you be able to pickup a missed radio call and have the confidence to say "that was for us!" I didn't think so! Only pilots should be allowed in the cockpit. Most others just get in the way, or create unnecessary distractions. There is no cockpit door in the freighter, so the upper deck seats must be considered as being in the cockpit. Also, other than Cabin Crew, no one else takes the necessary yearly evacuation training.
J1: wife/girlfriends/relatives
J2: other pilots
J3: cabin crew
J4: ground staff
J5: ground staff family
If we are talking about safety and being an asset, the JS priority be the following:
J1:other pilots/ground engineers (no one knows more about the plane's system than the LAME)
J2:ground staff (ramp/load control) / cabin crew
J3:other ground staff
J4:all others
I highly doubt that a pilot jump-seating on the freighter would being seating in the actual cockpit and help out the operating crew. I bet he/she would be sleeping in the bunk for most of the journey. Your argument doesn't hold water.
FYI: some ground staff are just as qualify as most pilots, if not more qualify, to perform the tasks you mentioned. Some are former CAD/FAA/JAA inspectors. Some have advanced PhD's in aerospace engineering - having a hand in designing the plane you fly in. Some are former pilots with other airlines. Just don't look down on all ground staff as if they are all pencil-pushers and ramp-rats. Some have more education and expertise than some pilots.
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Funny you brought this up. And what do we see in the granting of JS on pax aircraft
J1: wife/girlfriends/relatives
J2: other pilots
J3: cabin crew
J4: ground staff
J5: ground staff family
J1: wife/girlfriends/relatives
J2: other pilots
J3: cabin crew
J4: ground staff
J5: ground staff family
J6: Minge-star
FYI: some ground staff are just as qualify as most pilots, if not more qualify, to perform the tasks you mentioned. Some are former CAD/FAA/JAA inspectors. Some have advanced PhD's in aerospace engineering - having a hand in designing the plane you fly in. Some are former pilots with other airlines. Just don't look down on all ground staff as if they are all pencil-pushers and ramp-rats. Some have more education and expertise than some pilots.
