Identify this once-flying-object
Thread Starter
Identify this once-flying-object
A friend of mine photographed this whilst out hillwaking on the Cheviots recently.
It looks to me more like a rocket component than a missile component.
Any Clues.
I posted this previously on jetblast but no takers so far.
It looks to me more like a rocket component than a missile component.
Any Clues.
I posted this previously on jetblast but no takers so far.
All I can think of is the tail end of an AS.11 / SS.11. This was a French developed anti-tank missile used by UK forces - at least in the AS.11 version.
http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/cosford/...m?missile_id=1
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/ss11.htm
http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/aat/as11.html
http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/cosford/...m?missile_id=1
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/ss11.htm
http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/aat/as11.html
Thread Starter
Nice one guys I think we have identified the beast AS-11.
Quite how it ended up in the Cheviots behind Sourhope Farm is another matter.
Gainsey, it was a friend of mine who found and photographed it, so I am not really sure of the size, apart from the rough estimate he supplied of one foot in diameter.
Quite how it ended up in the Cheviots behind Sourhope Farm is another matter.
Gainsey, it was a friend of mine who found and photographed it, so I am not really sure of the size, apart from the rough estimate he supplied of one foot in diameter.
Thread Starter
So we are fairly sure what it is, the question remains, how it got there, especially in its present state.
If it was the remains of a practice round, I would imagine that no warhead would be present therefore no detonation would take place, therefore the propulsion section would remain intact.
The location is only 15miles from Otterburn.
Does it look like like a practice round. Could it have fallen from its mount at some point in the past ?
If it was the remains of a practice round, I would imagine that no warhead would be present therefore no detonation would take place, therefore the propulsion section would remain intact.
The location is only 15miles from Otterburn.
Does it look like like a practice round. Could it have fallen from its mount at some point in the past ?
Looks like the remains of an SS11, launched from the Scout AH1, but not for many a year.
IIRC, the two blue tubes are the propulsion exhausts, so this one is unlikely to have made its way there under it's own steam.
The blue tubes would also indicate that this one is a dummy load.
Inadvertant release might be ruled out, as it was rail mounted, went off the front (obviously), and I'd be interested to see a picture of a Scout low level, nose low enough for it to have slid off.
The most likely explanation is that it was 'acquired' as a trophy when we went to Lynx/TOW, and subsequently went out of fashion.
The number may be date-related - we were still lobbing them around into the early eighties in BATUS & FI
Hope this helps.
(HWI to back me up?)
IIRC, the two blue tubes are the propulsion exhausts, so this one is unlikely to have made its way there under it's own steam.
The blue tubes would also indicate that this one is a dummy load.
Inadvertant release might be ruled out, as it was rail mounted, went off the front (obviously), and I'd be interested to see a picture of a Scout low level, nose low enough for it to have slid off.
The most likely explanation is that it was 'acquired' as a trophy when we went to Lynx/TOW, and subsequently went out of fashion.
The number may be date-related - we were still lobbing them around into the early eighties in BATUS & FI
Hope this helps.
(HWI to back me up?)
Last edited by diginagain; 4th Apr 2005 at 04:26.
Thread Starter
Curiosity still grips the finder. He plans a second visit in order to photograph the unit more comprehensively, this time including various numbers and letters printed on the casing.
We also came to the conclusion that it had not been fired, due to the lack of scorching around the nozzels, however there was signs of soot and blackening at the rear where the cover had been removed, which may have indicated a faulty unit (or that some Ned was trying to set fire to it) !!
You say that the blue nozzels are an indicator that it was a dummy, but it was packed with components and was pretty heavy, also other pictures show this type of unit to have blue nozzels, perhaps they were also dummies.
Had it been a trophy, it is still hard to understand how it made its way deep into the Cheviots.
Thanks for the info guys, any more would be welcome !
We also came to the conclusion that it had not been fired, due to the lack of scorching around the nozzels, however there was signs of soot and blackening at the rear where the cover had been removed, which may have indicated a faulty unit (or that some Ned was trying to set fire to it) !!
You say that the blue nozzels are an indicator that it was a dummy, but it was packed with components and was pretty heavy, also other pictures show this type of unit to have blue nozzels, perhaps they were also dummies.
Had it been a trophy, it is still hard to understand how it made its way deep into the Cheviots.
Thanks for the info guys, any more would be welcome !
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
"Dummy" ordnance comes in different types.
There is inert, drill, training and trials.
The inert is usually, but not always, a shape. Drill is not usually, but sometimes is, flown and is usually complete so that it can be taken apart and reassembled but no explosive. Training is usually flown and may have working gubbins so that the integration with the weapons system is possible. Finally trials has everything fitted with explosives replaced with an inert ballast and propulsion likewise although that might be 'live' if it was a firing trials round.
Colour also gives a clue but the colour goes with the round and not a universal standard as we keep changing the rules.
The short answer is don't touch and you mate should really tell the police who, in turn, will call out EOD to remove said object. Make sure that they get his name as there may be a reward.
If his is a member of the armed forces then get someone else to discover it. Members of the armed forces have a DUTY to report it and therefore would get no reward.
There is inert, drill, training and trials.
The inert is usually, but not always, a shape. Drill is not usually, but sometimes is, flown and is usually complete so that it can be taken apart and reassembled but no explosive. Training is usually flown and may have working gubbins so that the integration with the weapons system is possible. Finally trials has everything fitted with explosives replaced with an inert ballast and propulsion likewise although that might be 'live' if it was a firing trials round.
Colour also gives a clue but the colour goes with the round and not a universal standard as we keep changing the rules.
The short answer is don't touch and you mate should really tell the police who, in turn, will call out EOD to remove said object. Make sure that they get his name as there may be a reward.
If his is a member of the armed forces then get someone else to discover it. Members of the armed forces have a DUTY to report it and therefore would get no reward.
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I remember in the early 50's in woods surrounding RAF Wahn, a bunch of kids found an unexploded shell .... a foot or so long and a 1 1/2" in dia. ...... they spent weeks hitting it with rocks etc untill finally they had it opened and found lots of "Spagetti" inside ..... 
To this day I don't know how they survived (inc. me
)
so report the Rocket and get it picked up asap
To this day I don't know how they survived (inc. me
)so report the Rocket and get it picked up asap
Just make sure that it doesn't have an orange filling band painted around it! If it does, walk away very smartly indeed!
And yes, definitely report the thing to Plod who will no doubt whistle up an EOD team.
And yes, definitely report the thing to Plod who will no doubt whistle up an EOD team.
On this image you can possibly see the 'scoop' opening as appears in the original image. There was also a development of this missile with similar nozzles - AS.12. It doesn't fit with ident of AS.12 as this was quite larger. I'd still go for the AS.11 / SS.11. Image of '11':
Very good advice on the reporting of it. Let the experts remove it and identify it - post back with any ident you might get from EOD!
Very good advice on the reporting of it. Let the experts remove it and identify it - post back with any ident you might get from EOD!
Dear All,
I may not know what it is but I can tell you what it isn't. It is not an SS-11 as operated by the AAC from the seventies up to the last firing in April 1987 by 658 Sqn. The SS-11 was a powered all the way to the target missile that used MACLOS (Manual Command Line Of Sight) as guidance, essentially, with one hand (the left), the Airgunner would control the sight (it was gyro assisted, not stabilised) and increase the magnification when about 750m to impact and with the other hand would fly the missile. The missile had odd flight characteristics, the main being as the propellant burnt off the CofG altered resulting in a nose up atitude coupled with the control responses that had a built in latency up to 0.5 of a sec. The SOP was to place the missile above the target in the LOS and allow it to decend slowly as opposed to trying to fly it direct to the target. Despite being powered, there was very little efflux from the motor and as such, two electrically initiated flares were fitted to the rear to allow the Airgunner to see the thing. Direction changes were provided by small nozzles at the rear of the missile that the airflow from a compressed air bottle was interrupted by paddles. The fins were fixed and imparted a slow spin for stability, this was interpreted by the on-board gyro so that any command by the Airgunner was always in the correct sense. We only fired at Pendine Sands and Otterburn towards the end, the last at Onion Range, Falklands being 1983. In the UK we only fired Prac which had an orange powder warhead to indicate a hit, the HE not being fired for cost, danger of blinds and an increased WDA. This would be indicated by a brown ring to denote the propellant and a blue ring to denote a drill warhead. This appears to have neither. There appears to be a lot of caggage without the flare pots. The large hole is the major giveaway that this not a SS-11. there are two lugs at the base of the missile and towards the front of the remains pictured, both of pretty identical size, an SS-11 had the ones at he back but a far beefier fitment at the fron that was connected to an explosive bolt that initiated after 0.3 of a second after the ignition sequence was fired. The poster ref the blue nozzles is off the mark, this means nothing. If it is a complete missile, you are looking at the propulsion section taht will contain about 1kg of propellant. If you are successful in igniting it, it will very definitely leave a mark as the design spec is to accelerate an inanimate, aerodynamic object from 0 to 550mph in about 1.5 secs. It will attempt to beat itself to death and try to take you with it. Call ATO or Otterburn or the Northumbria Constabulary. NOW!
(An HWI)
I may not know what it is but I can tell you what it isn't. It is not an SS-11 as operated by the AAC from the seventies up to the last firing in April 1987 by 658 Sqn. The SS-11 was a powered all the way to the target missile that used MACLOS (Manual Command Line Of Sight) as guidance, essentially, with one hand (the left), the Airgunner would control the sight (it was gyro assisted, not stabilised) and increase the magnification when about 750m to impact and with the other hand would fly the missile. The missile had odd flight characteristics, the main being as the propellant burnt off the CofG altered resulting in a nose up atitude coupled with the control responses that had a built in latency up to 0.5 of a sec. The SOP was to place the missile above the target in the LOS and allow it to decend slowly as opposed to trying to fly it direct to the target. Despite being powered, there was very little efflux from the motor and as such, two electrically initiated flares were fitted to the rear to allow the Airgunner to see the thing. Direction changes were provided by small nozzles at the rear of the missile that the airflow from a compressed air bottle was interrupted by paddles. The fins were fixed and imparted a slow spin for stability, this was interpreted by the on-board gyro so that any command by the Airgunner was always in the correct sense. We only fired at Pendine Sands and Otterburn towards the end, the last at Onion Range, Falklands being 1983. In the UK we only fired Prac which had an orange powder warhead to indicate a hit, the HE not being fired for cost, danger of blinds and an increased WDA. This would be indicated by a brown ring to denote the propellant and a blue ring to denote a drill warhead. This appears to have neither. There appears to be a lot of caggage without the flare pots. The large hole is the major giveaway that this not a SS-11. there are two lugs at the base of the missile and towards the front of the remains pictured, both of pretty identical size, an SS-11 had the ones at he back but a far beefier fitment at the fron that was connected to an explosive bolt that initiated after 0.3 of a second after the ignition sequence was fired. The poster ref the blue nozzles is off the mark, this means nothing. If it is a complete missile, you are looking at the propulsion section taht will contain about 1kg of propellant. If you are successful in igniting it, it will very definitely leave a mark as the design spec is to accelerate an inanimate, aerodynamic object from 0 to 550mph in about 1.5 secs. It will attempt to beat itself to death and try to take you with it. Call ATO or Otterburn or the Northumbria Constabulary. NOW!
(An HWI)