Maersk are at it again. (Redundancies?)

[Fool's Hole]

Here we go again.

All 737s are withdrawn THIS MONTH.

All CRJ operation.

Idiots galore.

[Propellerhead]

I've heard 10 redundancies.:( Obviously will be last in first out, so probably all will be CRJ pilots, which then means redundancy payouts plus retraining 737 pilots on the CRJ. When will airlines learn that making people redundant COSTS MONEY, and if its just a short term measure, such as post 9/11 in so many airlines, it just ends creating a big, bloody mess.

Does anyone know if there is going to be a redundancy consultation eg) look for voluntary redundancies / retirements / part time, or will they simply boot out the bottom 10?

Good luck to all, I know from recent experience what a ball ache it all is.

[apioca]

Excuse the ignorence, but why fire CRJ pilots if the 735 is leaving?

Sorry but it makes no sense?

[411A]

Oh my...here we have real 'experienced airline execs' (aka, pilots) making a determination about fleet types...NOT.

Maersk did not get to be the carrier they are while listening to line pilots.

The CRJ makes CASH, plain and simple, inspite of what some pilots think.
Don't sprain your brains guys, let the company execs do the fleet planning.;)

[boredcounter]

Nice rant, just what do you propose we should be doing then?

[take_that]

Rant by who Bored?

What exactly do you know about Maersks exec decisions 411A? Do you stand behind all management decisions? A sign of a good manager is someone that listens instead of blindly following beliefs. If pilots do know something and Im not suggesting that they are correct but then shouldn't a manager at least lend an ear. After all many a company has gone down the pan through a management decision, yet how many have come a cropper through a pilots decision affecting the company?

It is too early to tell whether pilots views are justified but I do get bloody annoyed when some people jump on the bandwagon about how all executive decisions cannot be questioned and are cast in stone!

[MOR]

Sadly, 411A is right- most line pilots wouldn't have the first idea about the operating specifics of any fleet, and only the most basic awareness of airline economics in general. Fleet decisions based on passion are unlikely to be good ones.

BTW 411A loved the bit about "Maersk did not get to be the carrier they are while listening to line pilots. The carrier they are? Downsizing rapidly, shedding staff, getting rid of their (potentially) most profitable aircraft? if that is success... give me Ryanair (oh no I uttered the evil name...:D )

[take_that]

Where have the other comments gone that were here and why has the Title changed?

[Fool's Hole]

take_that is right.

What the hell did PPRUNE do while I was flying? I started a topic which has been edited, title interfered with. This is like some institution now.

KEEP OFF MY WORDS MODERATOR! STAY AWAY, I SAY WHAT I LIKE, IT'S FREE SPEECH, DEMOCRACY.

411A is not worth commenting about. He's a rogue, a vulture that's waiting for something to pick bloody pieces of meat off.
Don't relate to him, he's ideas are not shared by anyone else!

[alterego]

No one in the company has said there will be redundancies, the fleet will be rationalised, there are new routes with a couple more coming but all we have here is doom and gloom.

Seems to me that the loads mean this makes sense, not doom.

It is bad news if you are a 737 crew at Maersk, as you won't be flying the aircraft you want to. Most, if not all of those guys will keep their jobs.

The new guys in training should be concerned but its way too early to say it is bad news.

[Blighty Pilot]

Looks like the origional thread has been moved to Airlines, Airports and Routes.

[FormerFlyer]

TT - the thread has been split and the other half is languishing in Airlines, Airports & Routes.

FF:)

[Wing Commander Fowler]

"crew utilisation would be increased"

Stands to reason if you spend very little time thinking about it..... If you have one aircraft of each type but require 5 crews for each (4 to fly and one to standby) then by combining the aircraft type you'll probably get away with 9 crews hence saving one. Whilst you clearly can't use this same formula for many many aircraft since you'll need to have more than one standby crew for your 40 aircraft easyjet type operstion (they'd probably like to try it.... hehe) there will nonetheless be savings to be made.

[buffet]

a few points from the forum,

redundancies may be reduced slightly in anticipation of more fleet utilisation and more routes next year. In other words they are going to try to avoid the fire and then hire fiasco we just went through.

we will all have to work harder but not? up to the max 900 hrs!

No payrises and I definately heard the words "no increments" !!!!!!!!!!

plenty of talk about what the companies planning without any specifics

Alot of positive talk as one would expect but don't expect to see any 737 types for a long time.

[skyclamp]

A company that cannot afford wages (proper wages) is seriously in TROUBLE. Maersk has run it's course, it's been wounded and can not/will not recover.
Maersk will be out of business this time next year, because there's no more backing from the Danes.
There's no use listening to any of the management cr@p anymore, why should the pilots/cabin crew carry the airline, when it's meant to be the other way.
I doubt PS is working for nowt so even a year will do fine, thank you very much, but why should pilots fly for less than they deserve?
What's loyalty for if it shafts you in the end?
Go and disperse everyone, there's nothing left here for you.

[Dom Joly]

Skyclamp, you got that all from Peter Spencers forum....lol

[DeeTee]

Sorry Guys,

we've got a private company forum for this sort of thing. So lets keep it there eh? Anyone who is company and doesn't have access can get it via the mods, anyone else posting here is just a !!!!stirr*r.

save it.

[Bluejet]

Hmmmn, quite right DT.

Gentelmen and gentle ladies I suggest we take this to the company forum. If you're staff and want access then I need your login id, your real name and staff number. Don't worry I'm not management and I don't care what you think as long as you stick within the guidelines as advocated by PPRUNE,

E-mail those to me at [email protected] and I will allow you access. Most of you should already have access though.

No need to air our washing in public.

Cheers

BJ

[skyclamp]

Bluejet, DeeTee,

The whole point of this PPRUNE vehicle is to be able to say things that you COULDN'T if your name was known.
To give my name to the Maersk forum is something I don't feel I could cope with, so I am forced to write here and wash dirty linen in public.
You can change this by letting people join the Maersk forum without having to give their real name, so problem's solved.
When you join PPRUNE you don't have to give your details, so why should we for any other forum?

[411A]

Hmmm, think skyclamp has his/her knickers in a twist with the ".......fly for less than we deserve..." line of BS.

Companies will pay the going rate, never mind what pilots think.
Has always been, always will.
'Tis called supply and demand, plain and simple.

[Bluejet]

A good point skyclamp.

However, the point of private company forums is to allow us to discuss our company and sensitive information and events without cluttering the bandwidth if RP. Additionally it assists in preventing unnecessary suffering to our own company by the effects of our own rumours. For example an individual identifying themself as FormerFlyer has already said that they intended using us for their hols next year but nowwondered whether we could deliver a flight to Athens. Patently we can, but the effect of our ranting on a public forum can lead to a serious undermining of the companies position. This has unfortuantely caused other companies major probs previously.

As we both know, you already have access to the company forum, so you have managed to identify yourself to one of the current or older mods. I now have to ask why you feel the need to 'wash dirty linen in public'?

If you have forgotten the forum password then that is another matter, a simple e-mail would suffice, to get that sent to you.

Obviously I can't and wouldn't want to stop you posting your 'dirty linen' in public, I just don't feel that its appropriate.

Enough said....as a generalism to all. If you can see the company private forum on the forums page (3/4 way down) then you already have access to it. If you don't have the password then you can e-mail for it. It's not actually changed in over a year and a half.

Sheesh :rolleyes:

[Mister Geezer]

I was told that Maersk were about to start recruiting again in the near future. In fact I was also told that they would be accepting CVs at the BALPA Employment Conference, next week.

I take it the rumour machine has been working a bit too hard on this occasion! :rolleyes:

I wish you chaps at Maersk all the very best - providing the situation is as bleak as it has been portrayed.

MG

[Bigpants]

I am currently BHX based on the Airbus. Sorry to hear the news if true but this does make the bigger picture look a bit odd.

BA are currently removing the Airbus from BHX in favour of the the RJ/146 and it appears that Maersk is winding down the 737 to boot. Given the loads on our longer routes, BCN MAD and FCO I just don't see how BA has the capacity to cope over the next few months.

Given that BA are discounting tickets to get loads up albeit with reduced yields it seems nuts to be slashing capacity but hell I'm not an executive like those smart guys at Enron, World Com, Pan Am, Braniff, Eastern blah blah blah.....

edited for spilling

[Bluejet]

Thanks BigPants you thoughts are appreciated.

I think it's fair to say that the SCOPE agreement with BA played more than its fair share in the loss of our 737's.

Still if BA and BALPA want to wind down the BA profile and service then that is their perogative. There are a few more lo cost carriers out there that are more than happy to pick up the business...also some of these carriers are not keen on unions either so well done BALPA.

However, I am not convinced that the Maersk uk picture is a bad one. Suspect with more effective utilisation that we may need to actually recruit more crews!!

Cheers

BJ

[alterego]

I am one of the new recruits to Maersk who will be going if redundancies take place.

Having spoken to management, this week it seems to me that opportunity and circumstance have presented themselves to PS. He has acted on this for the good of the company. The 737s are costing lots of money to run.

From where I am sitting ( in the bottom 10 of the seniority list ) this seems to make sense to me. We tend to forget that this is a business decision not a personal attack. Even though its going to hurt me financially.

My short time at Maersk has shown a good company, its not perfect but in todays market its as good as it gets. I hope to stay but if I don't, I want to be back soon. I think this may hurt in the short term but be good for the future of Maersk.

[AA717driver]

RJ's are cost effecient because airlines can get time-builders to fly for nothing. Non-crew related CASM's are higher for RJ's than 757's.

Pay doesn't always reflect "what the market will bear". When the majors aren't hiring(like now) it is a feeding frenzy for management. They pay what they want and the furloughed pilots with high experience still show up. And the expenienced commuter pilots can't leave.

When the majors are hiring, Commuter airlines simply lower their hiring requirements rather than raise wages. Roll the dice and hope the 300 hour FO doesn't stick it in the weeds rather than pay to keep experienced crews.

Sorry, 411A, the management code has been broken.TC

[Twistedfirefighter]

The problem with Maersk is that it hasn't got a plan or an identity strong enough to survive in today's hostile short-haul environment.
PS may be the best(?) MD for a long time, but he's limited by a bunch of Danes on one side and Big Airways on the other, so it's like he's between a rock and a sinking tanker.
The company is trying to react TOO LATE and it may achieve very little indeed.
The existence of Maersk is now unimportant to any competitor who will view it as a small glitch/irritation with tiny airplanes and readily fly through it's "airspace" with shiny new Airbuses or even 737s.
The punter will soon learn that lower fares and large comfy aircraft are the thing to look for when buying tickets and will vote with their feet accordingly.
Watch out for forthcoming competition on the main bread and butter routes like MXP, STR and the rest.
If the airline reacts like it did when the CPH was "taken over" then the future will be RED, not even ORANGE!!!

[claire mc cosker]

MORE REDUNDENCIES AAAGGGG

[Short Approach?]

Sorry? When was the "groundings" of the 737's going to take effect? As for now we´re still shipping loads of blue 737´s in and out of CPH and liking it. :)

With hopes for a brighter future :(

[Blighty Pilot]

This topic is reference to Maersk Air UK.

[Hood]

There may not necessarily be any redundancies. The 737's will still need to be flown until leases run out next spring, by which time those unwilling to return to the CRJ may well have taken up residency at another airline.

[Mentaleena]

Hood,

What do YOU know?
We're told one of the 737s is leaving this month, the other next month, so where do you get this info, or have you just had a nice drink? Don't just say things and let them hang in the air, do explain and authenticate!

[alterego]

Memo from GMFO/CC says that 737s going early and at present 9 complete crews to be laid off (COs & FOs). Hope is to cut this to 10 pilots and then see how many 737 rated guys leave.

Crew Council scheduled to meet management today (9 Oct).

[Mentaleena]

Thank you alterego.

So HOOD?

[Bluejet]

So now you see the problem. If you post on the open forums under RP then anyone can post a reply. If you posted under the company forum, then you would know that anyone who replied was a staff member or ex-staff member. You could then give a certain element of creditibility to their views.

However, if your going to discuss company information openly then you are going to get a lot of ****e posted. HOOD is an example of that.

Once again peeps. Nearly all of you who have posted so far has access to the company forum. Why not use it?

If you can see the company forum on the forums page about 3/4 way dow then you have access. if you cannot remember the password e-mail me and I will let you have it back...Once again it has not changed in over a year and half.

Youc an get me at...

[email protected]

:rolleyes:

[get a bigger hammer]

I rarely feel the need to contribute on this site but..........:mad:

Pilots do not keep the airline afloat. Operationally they are merely the end user. I agree that from FL300 you may observe everything below you. But this does not make you God. So “Skyclamp” remember that Maersk Air Ltd employs a multitude of people with very real skills. Pilots/crew are not the only people “carrying the airline”. There’s plenty of others working hard for this company in line to at best lose money, seniority or approvals and at worse jobs when our tired Boeings leave.

So next time you take it upon yourself to selfishly save us. Remember you can teach a chimp to ride a bike but not to fix it!!!!!!!!!!! :p

I understand why so many of you feel the need to express your views anonymously (I am after all doing so myself). However, I can only disagree with the number of people airing their views as to the company’s future on this open forum. It cannot do us any good in the short or hopefully long term. Bluejet, is it not time to address this? Rather than constantly requesting people to use the Maersk forum. Initiate a secure, inclusive and above all if wanted, anonymous system of registration on the companies forum. End of any future problems and start of free speech?

[Hood]

My comments stem from a conversation with one of your very own, over a beer I admit, some days ago. Events it seems have overtaken my posting and the timing of it as I have not seen my friend in the interim. My intention was not to stir, cause panic or meant in any malicious way. However it may well be that those who have something to hide shout loudest! Maybe this is why easyjet have not replied to your application.

[Fool's Hole]

Hood,

Mentaleena indeed has a point and your reply to her (him?) would have sufficed to the following full stop.

"My comments stem from a conversation with one of your very own, over a beer I admit, some days ago. Events it seems have overtaken my posting and the timing of it as I have not seen my friend in the interim. My intention was not to stir, cause panic or meant in any malicious way.

get a bigger hammer,

Please remember that Skyclamp too has a point, but the most important one is that flightdeck crew can see a lot of cock ups by other departments because ""Operationally they are merely the end user" It is up to flight/cabin crew to put right to the customer anything that other departments have got wrong since "Operationally they are merely the end user". Take for example the sore subject of catering alone!!!

[Bluejet]

Get a bigger hammer.

Another great point, but also remember that I am not management and this is not a company owned enterprise. rather it belongs to Danny Fyne and I am just an umble aviator. I genuinely don't care what is said as long as it complies with the rules of PPRUNE. I also do not keep lists of who is who. Nor would I disclose anyone's id to anyone else....to do so would identify me!! I keep myself hidden because I have on occasion had to slap down company members who overstepped the mark and broke the rules on posting. If it was generally known who I was I would then have to justify myelf to the aggrieved party in the crew room.

It is important to ensure that those that post on our company site have a genuine reason to be there. I don't think that letting me know who you are before you get access is a bad thing. A number of guys and gals have created special Maersk access names so they can keep their regular pprune id and real id a secret. They just use the maersk access names for the forum.

However I am always open to suggestions so if you can come up with a method I can use so that if someone can prove they are company without identifying themselves then drop me an e-mail and I'll consider it.

Cheers for your comments.

BJ

[misterblue]

BJ,

Why not set up a username with password, with access to the company forum, and post it up in the crew room?

If you've got that far, you deserve access!

MB