Air Atlanta Icelandic

[Mr HF]

So,much of the guys got paid finally! How about january09 are they gonna blow it like Palmi (Icelandic investor that bankrupt FLYME and later on Sterling,stole 2months of salary,easy money to hide away).Is the company solid now?
Acc.To Airborne (controlled by AAI) they will not pay your money unless the get paid by their client (AAI).So it is up for a scary give and take situation.Always be prepare not to loose one but two month of salary!

[18-Wheeler]

I left about a year ago, and one of the reasons I left was that I could see there was a good chance they were going to fold within a year or so.
How are they doing? There's a lot of good people there that I'd hate to see lose their jobs .....

[justlooking_tks]

I'll put wager on, that that most people will be home for Christmas.

Feel sorry the pilots,engineers and the other employees.

For most of the "management" I have no sympathy whatsoever. What goes around, comes around.

BTW. Is the Braathens bolthole still open?

[Bittair3000]

Before the economic disaster in Iceland the rumour was that AAI was planning to add more aircraft to it's fleet, and my mate who works there was rather optimistic about the company's future.

What say you, how is AAI doing these days?:confused:

[Nightfire]

Well, the fact that Iceland is bankrupt doesn't necessarily have to reflect on AAI.

We shall see. Good luck to all of you!

[bcgallacher]

Air Atlanta does business in US Dollars,is only managed from Iceland does not do business there and has good solid contracts at the moment.It is the ultimate in flexibility and has weathered hard times before - for a while things did not look good but I am more optimistic than a couple of months ago.They had several aircraft damaged in ground incidents not of their making and one hull loss in Dacca which caused financial losses but I am sure that they will survive.They have some of the most professional crews and maintenance staff in the business - many of whom are old hands with years of experience who really would have nowhere to go due to age if things went wrong.
I am one of the oldies but goodies and would really not like to retire just yet - still having too much fun!

[Mr HF]

AAI maintenance has been worsering...Most of the experienced mechanics left the company for 6 months ago.The mec. can not do the job sometimes,due to the fact of lack of spare parts,and lack of TIME! They are constantly underpowered and working in a stressfully environment in Saudi were everything closes down during praying!Anyway,have u seem the professionalism in saudia? Visit their local crew toilets in Jeddah.Nobody gives a dam! Look,who is flying for them..Phuket Air,etc.Sometimes its like a Christmas tree in the cockpit! Full of DMI stickers,and after 10days they seem to change places! Yes Iam worried!
The colleagues are wonderful to work with,some without any previous experience and minimal flying time.Still nice and progressing people.
I do understand your concern and the show must go on,but safety first!
Of course you would never go with a broken ship any were,thats why the books are there for BUT! It accumulates and small things tends to get bigger and when things brake which happens u do need to remember all the DIM stickers and take in to consideration of your nice buddy and his/her experince...so what does this has to do with 2 month of busted salary? Everything! It starts from the top,descending to local idiots at the
confusion center who either dipp there heads under the sand and hopes everything will resolve or delay so the next guy taking over the shift gets the problem.:D

[Yobbo]

It looks like crew members are expected to pay for their hotel rooms at the Isabella in Frankfurt!

[AAIGUY]

Makes me sad.

Now, I have been drinking tonight, but I really loved my time @ AAI.

Met some really incredible people. KN, (CP) was a great guy who helped me a lot.

In the last two/three years since I left, there has been so many incidents, mispayments, ect.......

Once it was one of the best airline ACMI companys in the world. I hope they can get back there..

[Phil Squares]

I have to agree. I enjoyed the other crewmembers there and had a blast flying there. However, as for the company and "rockhead" ideas, well that got old very quick.

It is sad to see where the company is now compared to what it could have been.

Is A.N. still on the 400?


Cheers

[bjet]

AAI are like cancer. You can never kill it completely. They are probably a fine branch to work for. Been operating on a large scale since 1993. I don´t work for them, I never did but I know lot of guys who do and did. Most were happy, but the lifestyle was not appealing

[nightfly]

how is the rostering for contractors.

[Atlanta-Driver]

Customer needs dictate a lot of the roster changes and there are many. Much less recently due to the lesser amount of flying in general this year. Due to the Hajj it is a bit busier now. Some of the rostering people where previously quite useless. Again it looks like on certain contracts rostering is working relatively well these days.

Every now and then one has a flight that just dissapears from the roster, given to a union pilot from a certain rock in the Atlantic with financial trouble so that he can take his girlfriend on a flight who now suddenly is also an employee with ID cards and all. Can contractors take family or friends with us? No, not a chance.

There are some serious shortfalls with the company mostly the HR policy and divide and conquer method of having different employee groups and not providing equal opportunities to everyone has bitten AA hard and will continue to do so until the ownership of the company realises that fairness will work better and happy employees produce more than unhappy ones.

[Paladini]

Whoa ! Camel

Tread very carefully here !


Just heard several (10+) guys have just been axed due to Ops requirements (read retrenchment) within just the past few days.

Loss of the CargoLox contract probably hasn't helped, but they're kicking out people from ALL bases, so the Icelanders can avoid going back to the "rock" . Rumour has it this is due to several "natives" being on the Icelandic Tax Man's hit list.

Better to take that fixed base spot in JED, AMS or KL from an ex-pat to keep the Iceboys out of jail..... makes sense to me. Sad for the poor ex-pats involved, though. Some had been with the company for over 5-6 years ! Seniority does not figure, just nationality.

Hope they (the "canned" ex-pats) can get on somewhere else sharpish. I certainly wouldn't go back. I left last year... and feel lucky. Only need another 6 months or so, s*king d*cks here in AMS Kanal Straat to get my self-respect back.

Good luck to the most recent Victims.

[joebananastreet]

Air Atlanta are doing a re-shaping,cost cutting program thats meant to save money.They are really struggling to save any dollar.
They are doing fine! The most remarkable thing is that they keep the !!!!heads in jed.ops (that spend the days playing on internet and when all accumulates they just blame it on Iceland) alive!They also let the most experience mechanics on the classic go,and hire other !!!! heads with minimum experience on the classic to perform cost cutting experiments by leaving wheel shocks in the intake.and of course they have relatives working up in confusion department trying to screw up as much as possible!SO why do i say AIR ATLANTA is doing fine? Well,put it this way.IF IT WAS NOT FOR ALL THE MISTAKES!IN CREWING AND MAINTENANCE, THEY WOULD SAVE SO MUCH MONEY THE CEO WOULD SLEEP NICELY WITHOUT PICKING ON THE 9MILLION DOLLAR SAUDI MONEY THAT WAS MEANT TO AIRATLANTA

[Mr HF]

Joe bananastreet???? yeah,yeah, i se wht you mean,but hey lets keep one thing clear! Safety first! Salary second! I have noticed a deterioration in the maintenance of the aircrafts more than ever!It is scary! It will finally end up somewere!Iam very surprised that a northern country like Iceland accepts this! Their CAA or what ever they wanna call them self must be a joke,yes a joke because of all audits they made not much have been changed really! IT is amazing that they are part of the JAR society.Is it that they have no follow up on things?Does it have to be a accident before things change? If u compare Air Atlanta with other asian low performing,eu banned companies,well then it maybe allright but the icelanders..should not lower them self to be part of that junkyard of aircraft companies they apparently admires.They have all the credences a !!!! company have.1.No money.2,bad maintenance.3 No experienced managers to run the show.4 fear to say NO! or you may be fired!5,wrong guys in operation,spec in Saudi!6.wrong personal attitude and cowardsness toward failures! Look and study business management,healty organizations were employees&contrators work together to achieve a goal!
Learn from mistakes and try not to make same mistakes over and over again,specially in HR and crewing.IF you have the right people and i mean employees that could speak up and say NO! it will save u a lot!

[Podunk]

Indeterminate INVOLUNTARY"Unpaid Leave" for Ex=Pats hit the streets/rosters yesterday ! AAI is following suit with SIA Cargo and Cathay ????

Get ready for a "rocky" ride (pardon the pun)......... and HUGE exodus of Ex-Pats .....

Glad I escaped last year... this is going to exsanguinate the company (that's bleed it to death for those who don't watch Casualty). :ugh:

I foresee a LARGE NUMBER of Icelanders on the streets too, in just a few months, when it goes in the bog completely .

T'is a shame, I agree with Phil Squares, it "could" have been a decent place to work.

Nightfly - This could be a great time to apply.... there will be MANY slots available in the very near future. Hope you have a "BIG" Samsonite.

All the best to my ex-pat mates stuck in this quagmire. Corporate isn't all "that" bad.:ok:

[lexxie747]

Mr Hf , Wat Is A Dim Sticker ?

[Atlanta-Driver]

Dim sticker is a JEDOPS ops person. It applies to one that has been in the sun too long and lost his mind but clings to JED like a drowning to a log. Alternatively used for those who have their head too far up TN's b.utt and cannot see the sun clearly

[Podunk]

Simon, you're such a card !
Who is T.N? new to JED?

[lexxie747]

MR HF,
selcal pt-ah come in please

[Atlanta-Driver]

100 point clue. TN hides in the office in JED and comes from a certain EU country that has had it's share of riots in the past few weeks.

[lexxie747]

when are you coming to pick up your tractor? i have been terminated so i have a lot of time for your excursions........:zzz:

[Podunk]

MrHF..... Do you happen to have a significant amount of time circling the bungle-bungles? :}

[18-Wheeler]

TN hides in the office in JED and comes from a certain EU country that has had it's share of riots in the past few weeks.

Otherwise known as T-CAS .... ?

[gubaclagan]

:}Wish that they can survive the odds and challenges of the deteriorating economic situation. Any news about their operation? Will there be a firm ground that mtnc personnel will still be intact after HAJ? I left the company 9 months ago but still interested to know something about the organization.:}

[Yobbo]

Has anyone been paid yet?

[Yobbo]

18WHEELER indeed t-cas.

[joebananastreet]

For all of U infidels! You do not like it? FOC off AND Find another job!
Let us work,let us make alot of money to the company!
You complain about maintenance? Well ground the aircraft pussycats!
and do not express your feelings were nobody gives a dam.
There is no point of complaining.
Nobody will give a !!!!!
Take it or leave it! Simple! No Mercy!
The world is full of time builders!Some have a lot of bull!!!! 737 time...other don't.Some brags about how they manipulate there 737 time others don't.Kiss up,spit down.Let the race begin!

[Paladini]

Well, well, well....

THAT was certainly eloquent. :D :} Joe, you have a great future ahead of you rewriting the AAI SOPs !

[Yobbo]

JOE

Have you been paid yet ?;)

[Podunk]

Is anyone willing to make a bet that the next move on the chessboard will be a proposed paycut across the board?

"We'd like to invite you to come back to work... after your unpaid VACATION.... (once we have scared the holy be-JEEZUS out of you and your families).... but we will have to cut your pay. We are very sorry, but EVERYONE will be making less for more work. It's the only way to save the company.... the company that has been so very loyal to you, the OVER-PAID crew, over the years...."

Yes, i can hear the moans now....... Muppets ! They are all muppets !

Maybe just for the ex-pats? Maybe for the "fish" as well.....??? but I'll believe that when I see it.

Hang in there, guys

[lexxie747]

I have been paid!
my wife is delirious, if i play my cards right, i may get some.......
better not tell her about the coming paycut......

ps joebananastreet : i feel a good danish cartoon coming up....

[Lostinspace]

Triple F--pay cut--work more than 50% year-- never will happen.

[Atlanta-Driver]

Since ISK has dropped like a limp d.ick the union boys would like contractors to take a paycut so that they could be paid more.

[Paladini]

Crikeys, Podunk...

Are you working for Airborne or Direct?

How The :mad: did you figure that one out? Apparently, the termination letters are already on the way. :\

No word yet as to how bad the pay-cut will be. My bet is between 10-25%
Will have to ask Boge A----sson if I ever see him again. :ouch:

[Podunk]

i'm not with Airborn OR Direct.

My friend (still with AAI temporarilly) would not send me a copy of the Airborne email, but the guys are being told they MUST take unpaid leave, AND sign a contract at reduced terms.

Looks like they will be on the beach at least til March.... I guess that's better than the SingCargo guys. Their Unpaid Leave , Voluntary of course, is a LOT longer.....

[Paladini]

OK, what do we have so far?

All ex-pat contacts terminated (to allow for an ACROSS THE BOARD PAYCUT)

now they want them to sign a lesser contact.... AND remain on Unpaid Vacation until Iceland decides IF they will be called back afterwards.

is that a contract? or a promise? what the hell is that? :mad: :ugh:

[Lostinspace]

That is normal Air Atlanta

[Kato747]

Extracted from a previous post:

Unpaid leave, terminations, contract revisions....? Guys, these are all management 'tools' to try to survive in hard economic times. Obviously, our employers are not immune to market forces. What do you expect them to do, close the doors?

How much would it cost to re-start an AOC once they declare bankruptcy?
Ask Eastern Airlines (US)......or Branniff International (nice colours).

This is still a cyclical industry, next year (2010), maybe, we can all look back at this and be proud of how we handled the crisis. For the moment, whether you work for Air Atlanta, Kingfisher, SIA or even CX, belts will have to be tightened closer to the spine. For those of you who know me, I could use a slight weight reduction anyway.

Anyway, i sincerely hope that very few people on this forum have to trade
" Ground control, XXX123, requesting start-up and clearance to SomeairfieldSomewhere", for
"would you like fries (chips for the Brits) with that order, Ma'am?"

Extraordinary times require extraordinary measures. Keep your chin up - it's easier to hit that way.

:ouch: it also makes a much, much more VISIBLE target.

ILLEGITIMATI NON CARBORUNDUM

[Atlanta-Driver]

You are not THAT fat :} Just don't stop smoking. The tightening the belts, yes, I guess it must be done to an extent. How this is done is another matter.

Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!

[Kato747]

:ok: I love that site !

Amicule, deliciae, num is sum qui mentiar tibi? :}

I may HAVE to quit smoking at this rate !

Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?

BTW - Thanks for having a "butt" with me on that flight with Robbo ! That was priceless !

[Atlanta-Driver]

Air Atlanta. Semper in excremento, sole profundum qui variat.

My latin is a bit rusty, but I think that sentence puts the whole thing into perspective :}

[Kato747]

A-D check your PM

[GlueBall]

Hey guys & gals, you're not alone. We expats at the established carriers are getting our heads dragged through the mud too. The feast is over. Now it's famine time again. And without a strong, organized pilots association that could stop the wheels from turning, the cut throat managers will squeeze you dry; and the more you bend over, the more you get screwed. It's like that everywhere in a non union envirnonment. :{

Good luck to all of you.

[lexxie747]

its a bad month to give up sniffing glue/...

[Borealis]

In vino veritas!

[Kato747]

Just for you "Lexxie"

its a bad month to give up sniffing glue


Suus a nocens mensis ut redono ut commoror gluten.

:ok:

[Podunk]

FLASH MESSAGE from Direct Personnel -

AAI world-wide contract as of 1 Feb 09 will be offered to "SELECT" ex-pats at a flat 10% pay-cut, including 10% cut in perdiems from $50/day to $45/day. My buds with Airborne have not commented (maybe not yet notified).

No word as to when all the guys on unpaid leave will be called back to work. Still, I can't fathom the reason for "anyone" to sign an INTERIM contract - just to keep for your place in the queue - while on unpaid leave. Hmmmm - "Do I have a contract.... or a job .... or a promise.......?"

One consolation is that AAI management and office staff in Iceland have also gratiously accepted an "interim" 10% cut as well......let me cogitate that one for a moment. :{

Nope.... still sounds like the ex-pat contractors are getting rooted without the post-coital "Kiss".

FIA (aka FFF) still NOT happy with results .... but are much safer from the Icelandic tax man, now that their immediate nuclear families have all departed to the out-bases. I guess you can't tax someone you can't get back into the country to put in jail. :D Well done, Boge! a veritable coup ! (Is Helgi even talking to you these days?)

[Paladini]

Just saw an interesting thread on Terms & Endearment regarding an EU Commission studying Rules for Pilots within the EU.

Need some help from an EU Legal Eagle, here....

Q1: As Iceland is NOT a member state of the EU, but AAI wholly owns the crewing agency Airborne Personnel HQd in Guernsey. Would this commission be interested in hearing from ex-AAI ex-pats recently shafted. Guernsey is also not a MEMBER, but has a 'special relationship'. WTF does THAT mean?

Q2: If you are contracted by a wholly owned subsidiary of an Icelandic Company, but your crew agency HQs are in the Channel Islands..... is your contract worth ANYTHING?

[ICEHOUSES]

Paladini
FYI Guernsey is NOT in EU and has no employment laws whatsoever, not even a maternity/paternity policy for example as the place is not in EU, many other rights are not avail in this island, this place is just seen as a flag of convenience and tax dodge haven by some people it seems.

[justlooking_tks]

The "contract" is not worth the paper it's written on.

There is no Chief pilot to try and look after your interests, apart from his own of course. Need someone that knows right from wrong and act accordingly, as a Chief Pilot IMHO is there to help look after the interests of his pilots and not a management cronie.

Most of the contract crews at AA are being screwed. Most of the ex contractors at AA have been screwed. This sad state of affairs will continue as most crew members only think of themselves and will not stand together. From what I can see, the opportunity was there for the taking in the not too distant past to take some form of action over T & C's but it never really materialised did it? Too late now though I am afraid. Guess it is easy from this angle to say people are selling their souls to the system, as most of us need employment of some description.

There are some exceptions to the above. There was one person who drew 12 months salary (such as it was) and never did any work for AA and freelanced for another company. Hid in the system (chaos), submitted his/her invoice every month....

Good luck guys as I think you are going to need it.Don't throw that jar of vaseline away just yet:sad:

[Nippon1]

The point to remember here is that although Airborne is registered in Guernsey,its office is in the UK. All contracts are dispatched from there and all coms. are with this office.

I am taking legal action at this time against Airborne and AAI for unfair dismissal and I have been assured by my lawyers that the British legal system covers UK and the Channel Islands so they have accepted my case on a no win no fee basis and are confident of a resounding victory.

I am suing them for unfair dismissal over the incident where an Icelandic mechanic placed a wheel chock in the intake of #4 eng to prevent windmilling during servicing and forgot to remove it. There was no entry in the Tech Log nor was there any warning flag to indicate the presence of the chock which was not visible from the ground during pre-flight due to the height of #4 eng above grond.

The next day we started the eng with resulting damage. There was no enquiry or investigation of the incident, and as the mechanic was a union member the Captain and Flight Engineer where terminated immediately as contractors.

Since then the Chief Pilot, the Maintenance Dept and Flight Safety dept have said that the crew were not to blame and shoud be reinstated but the co-owner refuses to do so.

[justlooking_tks]

Hi Nippon1

Oh dear, there but for the grace of God go some of us. Good luck with your battle. If I may enquire, who signed the preflight inspection on the flight in question, presuming you were embarking on an attempt to get airborne?

Stand corrected on the contract. Never thought it was worth anything and still don't.

Rgds JLT

[Atlanta-Driver]

Just looking TKS

It is impossible to see into the exhaust of CF6 engine from the ground without having a ladder of some sort. Also it is extremely difficult to see anything put in the front of the fan and resting at the bottom of the intake. During the day time perhaps but night time very very hard.

I would be more inclined to ask the question as to the use of a wheel chock in the first place? An approved tool for the task that was performed? How does a wheel chock fit in the tool count? Remember all tools should be counted when starting to perform maintenance and then counted again to make sure that no equipment is left in the aircraft causing such incidents.

Apparently it was the Ice-engineers assistant who left the chock in the engine and the failure of the engineer to make sure that all work was properly completed and all tools accounted for.

[justlooking_tks]

Atlanta-Driver

Fair enough and point taken. It was just the first question that came to mind.

Hats off to the lawyer taking the case, on a no win no fee basis, as it is disgusting behaviour, even for a company that is morally bankrupt.

Don't worry guys/gals, every dog has it's day and what goes around comes around.

[Nippon1]

Just looking TKs

It was the Ice mech who signed .....the sameone who placed the chock...he was present when we pushed back and witnessed the start up of the #4eng....whilst starting #3 he ran out onto the pan trying to stop the start, and when we shut down he immediately held his hand up and said he was responsible.....incidently all indications on the flight deck were completely normal nor was there any vibration felt at any time. The idea of using a chock was totally non standard and a similar incident happened a few years ago....so they never learn.

[Atlanta-Driver]

Just to correct my post a bit. Naturally I meant the Nr 1 and Nr 4 engines on the 747 and something thats deep in the engine.

[atlanta747]

Dear Atlanta Driver, Joebananastreet and 18-Wheeler,

Just for the record would you please clarify who in JED OPS you class as !!!! heads??
18-Wheeler i thought whilst you were in JED earlier this year that you were a true gentlemen, i am sympathetic to all crew but you are not the only ones being shaffted.
The majority of us in ops are in the same boat contract wise as you guys are, AAI has taken a perfect opportunity to get rid of some moaning old dead wood in the company and its better for it if you ask me. Its just a shame that some of the best crew you could find in any airline have also been sent on unpaid leave to balance some numbers and to save some of the Rock crew.
As someone has said before if you don't like it and don't like the way things are done go somewhere else to moan!! sorry i mean work....

Nippon1 you are one of the best and a big misjustice was done to you and the PIC, i wish you all the best with your court case and i hope you get some kind of justice from it because if anyone deserves better you do.

Safe flying and happy moaning. :ugh:

[18-Wheeler]

It wasn't me in Jeddah last year sorry mate - I quit AAI in late 2007 and spent the last few months with the company in KL.
I had very few problems with people face-to-face, only occasionally those some distance away who did not have the full picture.
However I could see even in late 2007 that the company was heading downhill rapidly and it was time to leave while I had control over it. I spent a few months with Qantas, training to be an A330 sim instructor but I could see that job was not for me and so at the moment I am flying small Metroliner turboprops on night freight out of Brisbane. A bit of a come-down but I am needed at home to look after things and it's working out very well in that regard.

I miss working with so many people in AAI, it was a great experience.

[Atlanta-Driver]

Dear Atlanta747

I would suggest that you read the associated post where comments where made again carefully. Perhaps you will find that a few notes about spending too long in the JED sun apply to crew too, certainly applied to me.

Most ops where very nice to work with, KUL and the original lot in DXB. Unfortunately DXB changed when certain TCAS showed up.
However few in OPS that where in JED during my tenure there changed with their percieved growing power over crews, you really have none, you do realise that don't you.
Comments like " I will have you travel on a train and then plane and then on a car to operare a flight with minimum rest" when one is on an off day. Well it is how you guys put things. It was the could you do us a favour and when you did your favour was never returned and next week you where in the s.hits for refusing to do a flight when you had not had sufficient rest. My beef really was with Blandon from the rock and his cohorts as well as the way with some of the OPS ended up kissing the station managers hide so badly that it really made me sick.

Airport ops guys where all ok as far as I was concerned, felt sorry for them for sitting at the office there all day and covering flights with less than minim crew. Dimitri certainly was good fun. Abbas and others great to work with, splendid job with limited resources. No probs there nor with the loadmasters. I heard Rose left. What a pity, great loadmaster and worked all hours of day never a word of complaint.

[atlanta747]

Dear Atlanta-Driver and 18-Wheeler,

I would like to appologise for my blast at all of you, it just appears that people are quick to shoot us down when in hind sight we are only the courier pigeons for you guys from the powers that be.

Again please accept my appologies for my out burst and i wish you all happy flying...:ok:

Best regards,

atlanta747

[ning69]

TF-ARS was up for sale for $3M USD, they probably got $8M when a/c distroyed in DAC. I wouldn't call that a loss. They paid $11M for freighter destroyed in SHY it was insured for $18M. AAI and AVELON have announced that they have jointly ordered $400M worth of a/c, I would say they are doing pretty good

[ning69]

response to AAIguy

What makes you sad, the way AAI has been screwing their expat crews for several years, or maybe the way AAI pocketed the crew per-diem they received from IBERIA for 4 years, or maybe the way they have cancelled all expat base contracts in Kuala Lumpur and put junior Icelandics in their place, or maybe it's the new contracts that will come out reducing crew pay and per-diem by 10%. Or maybe it's the news posted on AAI website that they along with parent company AVELON GROUP have ordered $400M USD worth of aircraft. OH I know why you are sad, it's because all the great guys who made this company all their millions have been let go and replaced by junior guys, that must be it. You obviously have not worked for AAI to make such a stupid statement as you did by saying you are sad.

[ning69]

message for paladini

I have recently sought legal representation and will very soon be posting results with contact info on who to contact for successful action. As it turns out, it is against the law, and I mean International law to lay off people without using seniority. If you downsize you must adhere to the law, or you have a case as I did for wrongful dismissal. Something AAI has ignored, everybody including the legal firms know who is pulling the strings within Direct and Aerborne, it's blaitant

[Seymour Skinner]

What's this about a $400 million aircraft order?

[Whiskery]

I would recommend you get a second opinion on this As it turns out, it is against the law, and I mean International law to lay off people without using seniority. If you downsize you must adhere to the law, or you have a case as I did for wrongful dismissal. before commencing litigation.

I reckon you're on a hiding to nothing and it may cost you a heap of money!

Secondly, AAI are a good mob to work for if you :

1. Don't get pushed around.
2. Don't take life too seriously

[Seymour Skinner]

As it turns out, it is against the law, and I mean International law to lay off people without using seniority.

Don't mean to pour water on your fire ning69 but this just isn't true. Many pilots like to think it is but it just isn't, sorry.

[Centreline747]

I'll stand corrected, but there is no 'Law' to say that redundancy MUST be done on seniority. :=

Rgds

CL747

Ah Beaten to it by seymour!

[18-Wheeler]

Not a problem, atlanta747 - I figured you had me confused with someone else when you said, "i thought whilst you were in JED earlier this year that you were a true gentlemen."

I knew immediately that wasn't me, for both reasons. :)

[Atlanta-Driver]

Now now 18wheeler. I thought I recognized myself there but the being a gent and all that would also be much misplaced with me. Good to hear that you are happy with the San Antonio Sewerpipe :}

[atlanta747]

18-Wheeler,
Thanks for the understanding, for some reason i forgot we had moved on to 2009.... It must be the JED Sun!!! haha.:O

Does anyone know where this $400 million aircraft has appeared from or where it is published??

[ning69]

It's on their website about the joint venture between Avion Group and AAI and the purchase of $405M USD worth of a/c

[carlyle]

I think you may find that this aircraft purchase news was released back in 2006, according to their website.

[18-Wheeler]

There were a few 777 slots bought from Boeing, but then were sold to other airliners for more money later on. Pre-planned strategy I believe.

[Peter Talalla]

Hi Guys,

Am home on ULV and this is all very depressing stuff. Miss having beers with all of you on night stops. I really hope things get moving soon as I know all of you have families to take care of and bills to pay. 18 Wheeler how's the car racing going these days :ok:

Well chaps I think I am heading to Bangsar to have a beer or 10. Cheers and I hope everything works out for all of us.

Cheers,

Pete.:)

[18-Wheeler]

18 Wheeler how's the car recing going these days

Pete!
How ya going matey?
The car stuff is going okay but I can't afford to do anything with them anymore, GA in Aus doesn't pay enough so they're sitting around collecting dust. Say gidday to Melvin if you see him.

[lexxie747]

Pete i found your door!!
come and collect it in ams, very best wishes, alex dorreboom

[Peter Talalla]

Hi 18 Wheeler and Lexxie 747,

Great to hear from both of you. Back to the old pencil mate !! Now that's a slippery turboprop and I remember you had a lot of time in that machine previously. I really hope you are having fun and enjoying life back home in Oz. Do keep in touch as one day in the not too distant future we will no doubt be in the same bar sucking on a cold stubbie. My shout.

Alex my buddy you finally found my door you devil you. Hope all is well and that you are keeping well. If I get to AMS will give you a shout and we can check out a few breweries. You guys take care and remember that good things happen to good people. At first it may look bleak and tough but after a while the cards fall into place and we will all look back and wonder what all the fuss was about. And you guys are the best.

Keep in touch and happy landings, :ok:

Pete.

[codliveroil]

podunk said
FIA (aka FFF) still NOT happy with results .... but are much safer from the Icelandic tax man, now that their immediate nuclear families have all departed to the out-bases. I guess you can't tax someone you can't get back into the country to put in jail. :D Well done, Boge! a veritable coup ! (Is Helgi even talking to you these days?)


Seeing and hearing this quite alot now these days. Do you guys really think that the "Codheads" aren´t paying tax since after they moved out on fixed base?

[Podunk]

Well, you can bet your gluteals they aren't paying Malaysian taxes. Since their government collapsed yesterday..... maybe they'll all get caught once the new Icelandic Finance Minister starts calling in the examiners.

Oz and US taxes world-wide income.... pretty sure the Cods are liable back home too. :}

[codliveroil]

Well, I hate to burst your bubble mate but it´s a FIA/FFF union requirement to pay tax in Iceland or in another country which has a tax agreement with Iceland. And this isn´t coming out of my ass like so many things which are posted here.

You gotta work out a new conspiracy plot...sorry

[znote6224w]

... and just to get the numbers correct: The 10% paycut is BS. For those on JED FB the cut is a bit under 40%. I wonder what the FIA boys/gals would say to that proposal.
Saudia, Flynas, Sama are looking for crews - 6 f/o have interviews next week - I guess we have hit the bottom of the barrel now.
Good luck

znote

[Podunk]

znote...

Did you guys lose the $1500/month as well? I would be out of KSA so fast it would spin their heads right out of their Gutra's !

& Codliveroil.... if you read my post... that's what I said, The Icelanders.... and any other FIA/FFF, are liable to pay taxes in Iceland / or tax agreement country....... whatever the FFF union agreement says, doesn't mean it's being done...

Lots of Icelanders have been, and still are bragging about avoiding tax while in Malaysia. That's not a conspiracy THEORY, "MATE". That's tax evasion in any country's books. For the individuals involved, I hope it gets sorted out, like the perdiem issue, with no-one going to jail.

& you wonder why the displaced ex-pats are Peeved??????

[znote6224w]

Yup its all gone - f/o and f/e are all on what is equivalent to loadmaster pay, if they want to see their families at all. That´s just over 200 per day incl per diem or about 55 - 60.000 per year if you are home 100 days per year.

By the way: What is the difference between Airborne Personnel (on Guernsey) and Mountain High (in UK, EU) and AAI (on The Rock). Who are we actually working for? All rosters, communication, travel, training e.t.c comes from Iceland. All communication regarding contracts comes from somebody by the glouriuos name of Mountain high consultants. Who are they consulting with or for? The money comes from Airborne Personnel PROVIDED they get some from AAI. Confused? Well, I am, but have never really thought about it untill now, where somebody is taking a leak in my mouth and just telling me it´s raining.

znote

[Atlanta-Driver]

Tax avoidance, being legal and evasion being illegal, which ever is being done by people and what the tax agreements are from country to country and what arrangement an individual has with their tax people etc are a personal matter. If someone chooses to evade taxes thats really their business. Still it is quite stupid to mouth off about evading taxes. Taxman these days is just an email away.

What interests me are the matters that concern every contractor, pay cuts, job security, being replaced due to union and political pressure, illegal dismissals, nepotism, discrimination at workplace, company taking advantage of the present situation around the world and so forth. I think the above could be applied to about 2 dozen companies around the world.

There are still jobs out there and many companies looking for experienced pilots. It is not all gloom and doom my friends.
Good beings for people getting interviews. I wish the best of luck for everyone and hope that good times come back soon

[Kato747]

So far, this thread has degenerated to new lows !

C'mon guys, you can't really hold the Icelandic crews responsible for displacing ex-patriot crews on Fixed Bases, whether it's in KUL or JED, or anywhere else for that matter. Individually, they did not move any of us out of our little niche in the empire. If "YOU" had been offered a fixed base position somewhere outside the EU, or even Iceland.. which offered a much lower cost of living (and MUCH better weather)... I doubt you would have been concerned that you were displacing your fellow colleagues....... whew !.... I almost erroneously used the word "employees".

Face it ! The ex-pat contractors were just that..... contractors employed for a fixed term with absolutely NO RIGHTS or recourse against the vagueries of AAI management. Whether the dismissals were illegal or not, It's a simple case of supply and demand and has nothing to do with the fact the ex-pat contractors have been the ones who kept the company afloat for many years. It's blatantlly political and collectively nepotistic in a macro kinda way.

It's an Icelandic company, flying Icelandic registered aircraft, with only Icelandic employees. Why do you think the ex-pats were never offered union representation? WE WERE NOT AAI EMPLOYEES !!!! That's the reason our contracts were issued by ACE, Airborne Personnel, and Direct..... to cover AAI's corporate ass. Arngrimmur wasn't stupid, he just didn't foresee how much a threat the FIA/FFF could, and did, become. They are now victims of their own success. The schizm between "THEM" and "US" will never be mended.

Some have mentioned "seniority" amongst the contractors ranks. I, for one, resemble that remark.... (pun intended).....but am merely saddened, not surprised, by the lack of reciprocity of loyalty and integrity from a company I had once been proud to work with. Many of the most professional aviators I have ever worked with have been summarilly sacked with NO regard for their long service and professionalism.

AAI is having serious problems paying for the state of the world economy (and that of Iceland) and also for some rather grievous past errors in basic management. They would be the first to admit there was, at least 'some' pressure from FIA/FFF to arrive at a solution, but even FIA/FFF didn't cause this latest fiasco.

Squabbling about who's paying taxes, and where, isn't going to help the situation. Past disagreements between AAI and the Icelandic tax authority have been largely resolved. The Icelander's salaries and perdiems are taxable as far as I have been led to believe, the perdiem "loop-hole" was closed (or at least tightened) several years ago. Another thread, in a different forum, even addresses the lack of work permits in Malaysia....c'mon fellas.....:ugh:

What good can come from bitching about all of this? It's not going to get your job back..... consider this... would you want it back knowing what you know now? :eek:

hmmmmm.... oh yeah, mortgages/rent, food, clothing for the kids....... The 90% contract, coming soon, is a juicy technicolor fart in your face :rolleyes: and shows how much AAI respects your abilities and expertise. There's no road back to the status quo.. It'll be years before you can recover the loss of benefits.

For those of you still on contract, I wish you well, no hard feelings....... For all the others, including myself, learn from this and strive not to repeat past mistakes ............Good luck with the mortgages and school fees ! :ok:

Kato

[Paladini]

The 90% contract, coming soon, is a juicy technicolor fart in your face and shows how much AAI respects your abilities and expertise. There's no road back to the status quo.. It'll be years before you can recover the loss of benefits.


I think it's not just juicy, but a bit chunky as well.......

[mutt]

Did they resign the SV contract for New York?

Mutt

[doubleu-anker]

znote6224w

"That´s just over 200 per day incl per diem or about 55 - 60.000 per year if you are home 100 days per year."

You're talking Sterling right??

[Podunk]

Doubleu-anker-

AAI pays in USD$$$$ only.... when they pay on time.

ACMI contracts are negotiated and paid in USD. Excess profits, since the crew-rape, are being used to prop up the Icelandic Kroner and their failed banking system.

[Earl]

I remember after Sept 11th 2001, AAI lost a lot of contracts.
The few they had was Nigeria in LOS, which they would have never touched if things were better.
Still when there we all had a good time.
But somehow they managed to rotate the work around for even the ex pats.
Then they came back even stronger than before.
Hope this happens again and all of you are back to work soon.
Earl

[gubaclagan]

Can anybody tell me what's going on with these stations? Are they still operating, i.e., operations and maintenance departments still intact! Have heard they're shuffling personnel here and there. Survival for the fittest!?Left the company 10 months ago for some good reasons. Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaerum can make miracles!!:ok:

[Paladini]

Perhaps the VIATICUM or "last Rights" would be more appropriate.

The bases have been gutted of the productive crews (ex-pats) and replaced by Icelandics. Fair to say that not ALL of them are 3 weeks on, 3 weeks OFF. The end is near....... where's Helgi gonna live now?

The FAT lady is warming up her vocal cords..... Capt Usm(UU)aa can let his beard grow ........

sorry Janne, could not resist (UUSMAA) :}

[747JJ]

2 U's please :}

I left Atlanta end of September. Beard will keep growing, need the winter fur you see :E

All the best from Hellstinky to the Air Atlanta Alumni.

Janne

[Iver]

Just curious. Any details on life on the A300-600F at AAI?

Where are the primary bases? How many days off "likely" in a typical month? How are the crews - good/fun people? I have a mate who just got his notice elsewhere and he is looking for work on that aircraft - I realize AAI has mentioned it is not hiring at this time. Just interested in those details. And yes, I understand the pay is lousy - just want some more info. PMs welcome.

Cheers

[Paladini]

The following is provided for the benefit of the 100 or so, crewmembers recently "raped" by AAI.

Enjoy, and remember your days at AAI fondly.............. :} It remains a mystery however how Hannes could possibly think the quote from Hotel California is a compliment??????????? :ugh:


Subject: CEO Letter 2nd of February 2009
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:32:12 -0000
From: "Hannes Hilmarsson" <[email protected]>
To: "Air Atlanta Everyone" <[email protected]>

Dear Colleagues;
I would like to give you a brief update of recent developments. In the beginning of December, I informed you about an Action Plan that we put in place, in order to protect jobs and survive the economy storm that is sweeping around the world. Following is an overview and update on the key
Focus Points in our Action Plan:

1. Increased Revenues / Utilization / Yields
Under the current circumstances, then our Project situation is solid. The
main activities in recent weeks are the following;
- We managed to extend the Wet Lease contract for TF-ATI and TF-ATJ (Boeing 47-300 passenger aircraft) with Saudia for 1 year, from 1st of January 2009 - 31 December 2009.
- We managed to extend the Wet Lease contract for TF-AMK until 15th of October, and we expect to start operating the Angola -China route by the
end of February / beginning of March.
- We took decision to exit Luxembourg, and close down all fixed cost there, but we evaluated ongoing operation there as a major risk in view of low yields and no monthly minimum guarantee. With the recent downturn in the Cargo market, then I believe this decision was 100% correct, although it is always controversial feeling to exit a long term customer relationship. However, we have enjoyed a very good relationship with Cargolux, and we hope to be back there one day.
- The contract for TF-ELE (Airbus 300-600)expired 31st December 2008, and we are in the process of returning the Aircraft to Maximus. It was known from the beginning that this contract would only be temporary while Maximus was building up their own AOC, but Air Atlanta managed this aircraft for a fixed management fee for Maximus. We enjoyed a very good cooperation with Maximus, and this aircraft proved to be very valuable for AAI as an backup Aircraft, for example during the 5 months period where TF-ELW was out of service in the beginning of 2008 due to the incident in Paris.
- We are in the process of returning TF-ARJ (Boeing 747-200 freighter)to owner, but This aircraft has been replaced with TF-AMD which was on contract in Luxembourg, and will operate on the MAS Kargo contract.
- We are in the process of repositioning TF-ARP (Boeing 747-200 freighter) which was on dry lease with Tesis in Russia, but this aircraft will replace TF-AMC (Boeing 747-200 freighter) on the Saudia contract by the end of February, but TF-AMC will most likely be scrapped.

With these developments, then we have 15 Aircraft in operation from 1st of February, including one backup aircraft (TF-ARH Boeing 747-200 freighter) that we will place in saudia. With the recent economy downturn, then this situation is actually very respectful, but we are seeing drastic cut in capacity all around us, with number of Airlines and competitors struggling and parking aircraft. With a very tight situation on hand, it is a key for us to be able to run a smooth operation for our customers during the next 6 months, at the same time we are actively trying to find new business where our key focus remains on the Boeing 747-400 aircraft. With the current economy Development, then we can expect our project situation to remain status quo for the coming months, but nevertheless, then we remain optimistic that the hard work of our sales department will bring us new contracts sooner than can be expected.

2. Cost Cutting and improved efficiency
We have implemented numerous cost saving measures in recent weeks, with the key objective to protect our cash flow. Main activities include:
- Reduce Staff at Head Office by 25%
- Revise Salary Contracts at Head Office
- Reduce/Cancel various Employee Benefits
- Reduce Office Space in Head Office (2nd floor out)
- Renegotiate various Administration cost
- Reduce Contract Crews
- Revise Salary Contracts of Contractors Boldface added for emphasis
- Agreement with FÍA on various exceptions from union contract to save cost. NOTE here: Icelandic crews have NOT had their pay cut as advertised to the rest of you !!!That is truly "Pulling Together"

In addition, then we have numerous ongoing projects in the company, in order to improve our efficiency. These efforts include engine review, restructuring of the Saudia line maintenance bases, restructuring of our spare part business and ongoing efforts in our Flight Operation department to maximize utilization.

3. Renegotation / Returns of Aircraft
Last, but not least, then we have entered into negotiations with few of our lessors, in order to reduce potential return cost of Aircraft due in 2009. In short, then we have met the understanding of majority of our lessors, and we are optimistic that we will complete renegotiation of TF-AMD, TF-AMC, TF-ATI and TF-ATJ in the coming weeks.

With all the measures we have p ut in place, then I remain optimistic that we will "weather the storm" and be able to survive these unusual circumstances. It is understood and respected that many of our decisions in recent weeks have been controversial and affected most of you in some way. However, then I feel most of you have understood the serious challenge we are up against, and the importance of the wide spread activities we have implemented in order to survive this difficult period, and protect the job of majority of our employees. With a respectful project outlook, solid customers and wide-spread cost saving efforts in place, then we have a case for turning things around during 2009; however the situation remains very tight for the coming weeks, and we simply can´t afford any slip ups or incidents in our operation.

I would also like to mention the human factor during all this turmoil. It has been very encouraging to see majority of our staff respond to the challenges and wide spread cost cutting measures in a positive way. It's during times like this where moral and team work is critical, and I have sensed a great team work and fighting spirits among AAI employees during the past few weeks. I am also grateful for the various feedback that I have received from all corners of the company, where people are stepping forward, shouldering additional responsibility and suggesting various improvements.

With so many of our colleagues leaving us under the circumstances, then I would like to conclude by quoting a colleague of ours that sent me a very encouraging farewell letter:

"They say Air Atlanta is like the Hotel California. You can check out, but you can never leave".

That pretty much sums it up. Let's keep up the fighting spirit, and thanks for your ongoing contribution and efforts.

Best Regards
HANNES
Hannes Hilmarsson
President & CEO
Hlíðasmári 3
201 Kópavogur
ICELAND
Tel: +3...
Fax: +354 458 4201
Email: [email protected]

Please note that this e-mail and its attachments are intended for the named addressee only and may contain information that is confidential and privileged. If you have by coincidence or mistake or without specific authorization received this e-mail and its attachments we request that you notify us immediately that you have received them in error, uphold strict confidentiality and neither read, copy, nor otherwise make use of their content in any way.



I am hereby notifying AAI that I am still receiving emails 14 months after I left the company..... my email will remain a secret til you can find it yourself....:cool:

[joehunt]

I had my hopes up, on reading that "letter" of finding the word "seniority". Disappointed but not surprised of course it never materialized.:}

[3 Holer]

Very sad.

I left AAI in December 1999 and at that time Capt. Alan Nicholson was the fleet Captain of the B747 fleet.

Top days staying at his beloved George Hotel when doing simulator revals. Tony Bellis checking and eager to get back to Madrid !
Now that was a great base - but gotta say I enjoyed Gatwick flying down to south of Spain ports during the summer months.

Then there was Jeddah and the old Rose Village. Noddy Parsons and his bloody garden and Paul "Yarpee" Terone with his BBQs around the pool area. Lots of great people to work with - cabin crew, ops people and aircrew. No one took life very seriously back then and we were all reasonably happy with the conditions.

AAI was a great Company to work for in those days and it saddens me to read all the above on this thread.

I guess that's change - sometimes it's for the good and sometimes for the worse.

[747JJ]

Quite right 3 Holer.

I had some of the best times and the worst too while flying with Air Atlanta. Flew with some of the sharpest operators in the world and "Airshows" that should not have been in charge of a paddle boat in Hyde Park :}

While being based around the world I met a bunch of people that I am still in touch today, with a few I am in touch about every day, good friends they are. Air Atlanta had a lot of talent hired by the present chief pilot, people with good solid experience from flying the fjords of Norway in Beech 1900's to plowing Sweden in Jetstreams and Fokker 50's some from heavy jets as DE Captains with Delta and BA. Good FE's from LH, KLM, SAA, BA and Virgin. There is only one left with Air Atlanta now from the Nordics that I know of and many of the above have also left. Common denominator was that nobody really wanted to leave but... Now there's the but, the HR policy and the chubby little man with a Dart Vader mask in charge of rostering and bases that time was the biggest cause for people leaving. A great loss to Air Atlanta in talent, braindrain one could say. Naturally the economics hardly improve job security with the company.

In most parts I enjoyed the work and many of the destinations. I would think that 2004 and 2005 where the best times and it was from a contractor point of view downhill from there with less contracts and worse destinations.

Cheers from MOW

[cp35]

New VP letter out today says 13 crews laid off 13th jan possibly more on the way.

[SRS]

Hi 3 Holer. I was also there in Dec,99. Rose Village, etc. Where is Tony B and all the rest these days?

It was chaos, but also good fun.:)

[ICEMAN757200]

SRS, I think Tony B is flying for Pullman Tour in MAD, and yes those were nice days I don´t think they will ever comeback :sad:.

Cheers

[znote6224w]

Enough with AAI -getting sick of them. And to those of you "ohhhhhh I had such a fantastic time in AAI, and where is Captain Chaos and Base Commander Head Up My Arse": You will find an appropriate forum on this site to finde your friends. In the mean time I would like to hear what people and especially those fired, ULV, etc think and what we should do about the task at hand i.e. AAI

[ICEMAN757200]

With or without vaseline?:}

[Atlanta-Driver]

So much anger, forgot to take the old chillpill this morning?

The situation is what it is and there is nothing you can do except choose wether you take it with or without vaseline.

[jumbolloyd]

Well what is there that any contractor can do, its an Icelandic company that must keep its Icelandic employees, or else they are out of business.

A lot of these employees don't know how good they have it...mainly because they are ignorant and arrogant, they don't realize that basically they are unemployable anywhere else with the attitudes they have...they have no respect for anyone nor their own company that gives them such wonderful benefits.

Contractors haven't a leg to stand on, you are given a contract, you sign it, and there you have it and besides, what do you guys want AAI to do, its been a dreadful year for them, if things were booming we all would still be there now, its a survival game in tough circumstances.

Yes, I have had great times in AAI, how can I complain when they gave me a 747 type rating and upgrade to Captain, they didn't have to do that, yes I want to keep flying and be there, but we all know what is going on, they only have about 15 aircraft flying now, when I joined, there was about 25 to 30 aircraft.

I guess we just have to wait and see if the company can navigate itself out of this dreaful situation, and its not only AAI suffering, its everywhere, and I'm suffereing as well, no income and bills to pay....:bored:

[Paladini]

JUMBOLLOYD........ I revel in informing you, but "IF" YOU were given an early command in AAI...YOU are a most likely a certifiable Tw*t and AAI seriously overestimated your potential. I have seen this happen many times before in AAI, and know wherefore I speak, so please don't feel I am singling you out in any way...you're not THAT special. I know who you are from your comments....... my humble, and honest, sentiments are only a reflection of the feelings of your colleagues who have had to pull YOUR weight on numerous occasions. That being said, I hope you are able to meet your financial commitments until you find a real job.

"Wonderful benefits"????? What have you been smoking???? Contractors at AAI have been screwed progressively since I joined, well before you were flying ANYTHING with turbines or turboprops. We fought for 6/2 rosters....we fought for FBC's, only to have hem snatched away because of FIA/FFF demands. The Icelandic banking crisis is only a pretense, this has been planned by the venerable "Federation of Flying Fish" for yonks.

Helgi and Hannes should be really ashamed at what they have allowed them to get away with. I don't know for certain what pressures have been brought to bear by the Icelandic Government, and don't really care, but running a business at the whim of a bunch of pedantic primadonnas is a certain path to extinction. Arngrimmur would NEVER have let this happen. If ANI had not been usurped by TM and KN, I'm certain HE would have tried to talk some sense into Hannes and Helgi. To be fair, Trausti would probably also not have let this pass without acting on the courage of his convictions. Not so, for the erstwhile simulator technician currently in charge.

The current problems in KL are also echoed in JED, AMS and BRU .... Icelandic crews refusing to fly rostered sectors, refusing charters...all stuff that could keep AAI afloat... and possibly open up return of "productive" ex-pat crews. The Ice-kaffers are treating their new bases as spring-boards for extended vacations. They have no compunctions of guilt or feelings of shame for what they have done....... After all, they are the Master Race. I am just glad that I have a firm position now, that will NOT be available when AAI folds and they hit the streets looking for jobs. They are getting a taste now, by parking one of the MAS Kargo airplanes in TAS. How will they decide which crews have to leave KUL?

With a few exceptions, I will reserve any positive feed-back to my current employer (or anyone else for that matter) for ANY Icelander in need of a job. Collectively, we have been treated like something to be wiped from one's shoe. Payback is a Muther ! Be prepared ! Some of us ARE appreciated by our new bosses. Believe me, they will not find it as easy to find a new job as it was to screw us out of our livelihoods. Good old Ricardo Montalban expressed it concisely in "Wrath of Khan".... ..."Revenge is a dish best served cold"

Have a very, very nice day ....... :ok: Perhaps you should stay under your rock.

FOR ZNOTE: "Carpe Diem"..... find a job, and don't worry about AAI.... it's soon to go the way of Branniff.

FOR 747JJ: Have a great time in MOW.... remember, they don't like Scandi-nubian, or Finnish, Captains in Chesterfields !! heh heh....I know you'll get in anyway, just keep a low profile, OK, Janne?

Hope all of the recently "rooted" find jobs soon. Best pay back is NOT to be available when the AAI slime crawls back to you with the 90% contract.

Cheers

[jumbolloyd]

No Paladini, you don't know who I am nor anyone has anyone ever had to pull my weight around, I've always had to do that myself. As for early command, how do you measure that, how early is early, I suppose after 38 years in aviation I still got my command early it seems I wonder when I will ever qualify then.

Who do you think I was refering to when I said that "they" didn't know how good they have it. Well I though I was refering to the Triple "F"s, maybe you were on drugs, by the way I thought FFF stood for "Flying, Fishing, and F**king", and its the last item that they are doing everywhere they go and thats what they are doing to their own company.

AAI has to have the FFF's, there is no doubt in my mind that the Ice Gov and the ICAA won't let AAI operate without their own countrymen in their own company. Helgi and Hannes' hands are tied, they have to work with the bloody minded unions they have up there, they have seige and little nation mentality, its as if they feel everyone outside their circle is out to get them.

Imagine Lufthansa with no Germans flying for it or B.A. with no Brits, the reason you got 6/2 or FBC is because it suited AAI, but the FFF force issues that don't make sense, like their 3 weeks on and 3 weeks off, oh can't fly when I get to KUL because the poor FFF is jet lagged so another 3 days off, then have to be back on the icerock on the certain day so have to leave KUL 3 or so days early, so how productive is that, really its 2 weeks on 4 weeks off with Business Class travel I believe, nice work if you can get it.

Meanwhile we have Malaysians pilots and F/E's who have homes in KUL would cost the company zip and no travel expences or Saujana extravaganzas, but noooo, cant have that, so as I say, what can a contractor do.

Thus I said, as contractors we have no choice, you sign the document and there you have it for better or worse, so I was very appreciative when they gave me a type rating and then an upgrade, that was never part of my contract, so I got something I never though I would get.

With all that, I think I will go and find my rock and crawl back under it.:rolleyes:

[justlooking_tks]

Any more updates on the state of AAI, the locals and the other master race?

Just want to see a few individuals get a taste of their own medicine.

I have a bottle of fine bubbly in ice.

[Paladini]

I really hope that bottle of fine bubbly is a MAGNUM. There are about 115 (at last count) guys who will be itching to toast the demise of the Fantasy Island Group.

Last news, a week or 2 ago is: the Angola-Beijing contract is in serious jeopardy due to air rights negociations. Doesn't look like it will happen any time soon.

Best of luck to the poor sods who were screwed. Any updates from KUL or JED?

[jumbolloyd]

Well thats a bit of bad news re the Angola to Beijing contract, I hope it works out for AAI, as I figure it would be good and require a few crews and a bit more variety for the lovelly CCM's. However, I did hear there is rumor that Saudia want more aircraft, not sure how many but I thought it was around 2, hope it works out. :bored:

[mutt]

However, I did hear there is rumor that Saudia want more aircraft, not sure how many but I thought it was around 2, hope it works out.

Rumor from the other side is that the contract wont be renewed..SVA aircraft and crews sitting on the ground whilst contracted airlines fly due to their minimum hour guarantee..

Mutt

[Mr HF]

I hear the same ShXt,from saudiacity.Hope its not true! If so...then the blues brothers better get their act togheter and find more contracts outside the sandpit!
Question? How long could iclandic CAA continue re-validating non-jar licences?12 months is practical in the rest of europe exept the bankrupt icerock and the green island were its chilly wx all the time.

[Yobbo]

Not sure I understand what you mean when you mention the green island and the reference to the validations.

[747-200/300]

"Question? How long could iclandic CAA continue re-validating non-jar licences?12 months is practical in the rest of europe exept the bankrupt icerock and the green island were its chilly wx all the time."

I'm not sure you should waste your time worrying about validations. You should worry that the new owners at AAI might someday realize that they gain no competitive advantage by remaining an Icelandic company. They could make far more money by registering all the aircraft in some other "Category 1" country, dumping the "local" union crews in favor of the much more productive contractors and continuing the operation as an "offshore" entity. These "flag of convenience" airlines are quite common now and I really don't think SV cares about what the tail # is. You could still call it Air Atlanta and it would have the same management, but you could dump the union and register the planes in a country with much less regulatory oversight. Much more money to be made by leaving Iceland!

[jumbolloyd]

Well I couldn't agree more, if its true, and SV does not renew the contract then AAI is doomed, and the final nailing of the coffin will be by MH, as the there is no one from fantasy island out there on the ground at the coal face asking the right questions and out there doing everything to keep the remaining customers they have happy.

Unfortunately AAI hierarchy like to surround themselves with kiss ass yes men and appoint some people in positions that defie belief and do nothing except keep some seat warm, like station managers for instance, base commanders that you never see or have any interaction with, with a policy of when in doubt shoot the messenger.

Do the people up there in fantasy island office know anything, this STAMA stupid mothers club really live in some looney land that talk about what soup they will have for lunch and where to will be the next mystery trip.

There is a handful of good switched on guys amongs the FFF, but few and far between, and this 3/3 and travelling expences with $1000 to work a day off no flexibilty to rosters etc etc is just unbelievable, anyway...its their company, as someone has said while its based in Iceland it must employ their own, and yes I guess if they move of shore then a different story, but its TF- registered, that involves ICAA and the goverment like it or not it has to be Icelandic.

I can just imagine the pressure AAI must be under from the relatives and connections and favours that have to be redeemed, its a Scandanavian mindset and thats how they do business its time for AAI to get tough with the FFF union and the FFF pilots have shape up or ship out, but then if they want to screw up their own company what can a contractor do, we are not employees just hired hands. :bored:

[747JJ]

Jumbolloyd

" its a Scandanavian mindset and thats how they do business "

That it how they do business but trust me, it is not a Scandinavian mindset and this is NOT how we do business or run companies in Scandinavia or Finland.

[lexxie747]

certainly not the wodkabusiness ! how are things janne?

[747JJ]

Driving that them Ford Escort :E Vodka Pickles and dark bread. Sending y an email check it with yr Mac :}

[jumbolloyd]

Ahhh...sorry Janne, quite right poor choice I realize, now I don't know what to call them, what a dilemma, I'll have to come up with a new category.

And Nippon1, I send you & yours my regards, I got your e-mail, hope all is well there, and yes you sure got delt a bad hand by AAI a few months ago, wrong people got fired, talk about shooting the messenger. :sad:

[GlueBall]

Hey, . . are you the guys who eat Hákarl, the putrified shark meat; and drink Brennivín, the schnapps made from fermented potato pulp...? :p

[aeroground]

Rumour on the street the Etihad contract is ending

[Codhead in Abu Dhabi]

Just heard about this thread

Is there any update on this - we have two airbuses here in AUH - I know contract is due for renewal with Etihad - have we lost this contract as well ? Time to dust off the CV me thinks ??

[Atlanta-Driver]

From what I hear, that contract is ending in June. Subject to change as usual.

[Kato747]

CODHEAD.....

Just don't be surprised by the sheer numbers of CV's on desks ahead of yours. Lots of guys, "released" in Jan/Feb by AAI will be ahead of you !

kEEP THE FAITH, maybe AAI will survive this, maybe not.

[Codhead in Abu Dhabi]

Heard that AAI have definately lost the Etihad contract at the end of May - time to be sending off the CV's to Maximus as they have picked up the contract - guess this makes sense for Etihad to feed another UAE company and maybe AAI should have seen it coming...

[jumbolloyd]

Well this is bad news to say the least, and as for AAI should have seen it coming, well what do you expect from the codheads up there.

All run by a mothers club and feminists, with young kids in VP postions who have no experience or a real education most likely, and the others in operations etc that send e-mails to each other and NOT talking all the while being in the same room, how can you build a first class company with this kind of philosophy.

So what is left now, SV and MH, don't suppose any one from Sales & Marketing if you can call it that, are doing anything except sitting in their offices staring at computer screens waiting (hopeful) for someone to come through the door offering a contract like a rabbit out of a hat, may Allah bless them, AAI will need it, I don't suppose I can expect a re-call anytime soon hey.:sad:

[old fart]

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/Griff747/pics%20from%20aircraft/Freighter1.jpg

good luck chaps.

[Whiskery]

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss215/b727200/AirAtlanta2.jpg

Those were the days !

[Kato747]

Wow, that's still in the old "Horny Viking" Logo !

[gubaclagan]

Any further details re-above subject? How many aircrafts flying now? Personnel-wise (flight operations and maintenance), are there any abrupt changes? Hoping that AAI can survive the economic crisis! Have enjoyed working with them for more than 10 years as a contractor! To all those who are lucky among the few, God bless.:ok:

[znote6224w]

Just heard that 8 FE´s and 7 FO´s are joining SV in May - guess it´s time to dedust alle the CBT´s on the rock. Good news for line trainers.

[mutt]

Good for them :):):)

SV Lesson #1: Forget that you ever flew a B747 before :)

Mutt

[Paladini]

Hey Mutt.....

Was that comment directed at the guys "upgrading" to real jobs at SV or for the newbies taking their places with AAI?

Ya gotta wonder!

[Podunk]

Znote, how could that possibly be good news for the line trainers?

It would just mean a fresh batch of snot-nosed, white-rubber booted, Ice-kids off the trawlers with 4oo hours TT.

[jumbolloyd]

Good news and good luck to the guys joining SV and getting out of that quagmire AAI :ok:, I hope none of the codheads got a look in, as they are useless and only function when surounded by their own kind, anyway no one in their right mind would offer anyone 2 weks on and 4 weeks off as part of a contract.:rolleyes:

[Yobbo]

Does anyone know if any Capts. are among the new hires with SV? It would be nice to see AAI scrambling for several productive... replacement crews.

[Kato747]

Heard they were not recruiting for Captains this round.

THX for the PM, Mutt... answered my Q ! Age is correct, perhaps the reason. :{

edited to include ..............: Confirmed..... several very highly qualified "Sith Ifrican" F/E's did not get interview invitations due to being over 55.

Hope SVA changes to align with FAA age-65 regs soon.

[screwballburling]

An outfit in the UK advertising for B747 classic crews. UK residence only. Now is your chance to get off a sinking ship.

[Kato747]

Well, as of 15 April......

Fresh"ish" from the rock.........

There is currently no plan to rehire ANY of the ex-pat crewmembers who were "Terminated " in the January Putsch.

Crew Planning has been rotating some of those who were sent home on ULV but no recall is planned.

Any rehiring/recall will be only for those with 744 rating because AAI is doing all they can to replace the Classics with the 744.

:bored:

Looks like a large number of FIA "dues paying crewmembers" ... the Icelandic Flight Engineers.....have been wasting their time. .... Unless, of course, they wish to finish their pilot's licenses or become Cabin Attendants.

As they say... "Oh Dear, this will only end in tears."

[Paladini]

SCREW............ling

Where did you see an ad for Classic crews?? In the UK or otherwise.

[screwballburling]

Orange background.

[Yobbo]

I hear that the MAS contract will not be renewed and Saudi contract is hanging by a thread. Can anyone confirm this?

[cp35]

That sounds like a reasonable assesment.

[jumbolloyd]

Yes I heard this the other week speaking to a friend in K.L. who was at a gathering there where this was mentioned to my friend.

It seems that the contract will not be renewed, as AAI does not it seems have made any effort to protect its position or has any idea how to do business in Asia except of the same stupid codhead mentality of shooting the messengers.

Until a couple of years ago Oli Smith before his death was the station manager, who knew exactly how to look after the goose that was laying the golden eggs and ability on how to deal with Asians.

The new station manager is as skilled as the one in JED in being able to line their own pockets with the spoils with great skill, greed and corruption...after all of the same ilk.

Its a pity, they just don't get it, they just rape and corrupt everything they touch and then its to late, I also hear there is a couple or so classics parked in JB waiting to pounce on an opportunity.

Same outfit that got some Hajj work this last one passed as somehow AAI screwed that up also, figures so its down to SV, yep I believe it would be hanging by a thin thread what else.:sad:

[Paladini]

Sorry if this is old news...it's new to me...

Is it true the Icelandics are now getting $255 perdiem? That's a damned fine payrise at the expense of all the ex-pat crews they let go !

That's more per day than I was making as an F/O in year 4!!!!!!!!!!!!! You guys oughta be ashamed.....................

[Nightcargo]

Ive been sitting here and laughing at your comments.
First of all there is not one single truth in any of your comments on this forum.
It is obvious that you have to much time off. Your imagination is running your lifes. I happen to be a Icelander and you call us all kind of names.
If we are so bad and treat you badly. Turn in your validations if you dont have a proper licence and work in your own country. There are people lined up to take over your positions. I dont know any european country who is so kind to you non europeans and give you validations year after year. Why are U still here? Its because nobody else wants you.

Get a life.

[Paladini]

Oh, PLEASE excuse me Nightcargo, my last post was posed as a question, or don't you understand European and American punctuation? This lttle fella (?) at the end of a sentence denotes an interrogative (that's asking a question, fool.)

FYI, "this" particular non-Icelander has NEVER used a vallidation from the ICAA.... never needed to, I have a real license, as well as the JAR. You seem to think that all non-CODs are from the US or Canada. Do you understand the term Wan_ ker?

A lot of very professional pilots and F/Es were released in January, Guys who, even you will have to admit (if you're honest) YOU have learned MUCH from, so don't take a haughty tone. Good people are on the street because of your UNION. They have a life, it's just a bit harder to pay for essentials now. Don't expect a large positive reaction to recalls when the ICAA realizes you cant run the business without ex-pats.

Perhaps, Helgi & Hannes should change the name of the company to FIAir Atlanta? Oops, there it (?) is again, certainly would not wish to confuse you as well.

[Nightcargo]

There is a treatment for this.

Take a vacation. It is a good start.
Also if you are not happy go somewhere else.
If you are one of those fired or failed the sim. Get a life.
Thats what normal people do.

[doubleu-anker]

Night Cargo

I have just hooked a piece of cod!

Validations. Well it just proves the Icelandic CAA are in the pocket of AAI. The validation system has been abused for years by these outfits, with continued employment of individuals who are incapable of getting the licence or too damned lazy.

Failed the simulator? Don'T you mean crashed the sim, like a local "Captain" managed to do twice I am reliability informed, in one session? (Question) Let me repeat. He did not FAIL the sim, he simply CRASHED it, twice! That said, AAI can be very thankful they operate Boeing A/C for e.g., as anything else less forgiving, would have resulted in at least one bad crash.

"If it ain't Boeing, then I'm not going"

[Nightcargo]

Reliable sources??????????

Read the forum.

To many negative people around.

[znote6224w]

Give this outfit a mail : www.alwafeeair.com (http://www.alwafeeair.com). It´s a start-up but contracts have already been signed and aircraft shoud arrive in time for the forthcomming HAJJ and from what I hear they will be the final nail in the AAI coffin and might even help them fianacing brand new fishing boats. Life away from AAI is fantastic.

[dsp1285]

alwafeeair link not working....

[Paladini]

try emailing them at [email protected] or try Alwafeer Air Homepage (http://www.alwafeerair.com) or try one of the three or more threads talking about Al Wafeer

good luck in getting an answer:ugh:

[mutt]

what I hear they will be the final nail in the AAI coffin

Whats the connection with AAI? Why do you think that they will have an impact on their operations?

Mutt

[Metro man]

Try this link Alwafeer Air Homepage (http://www.alwafeerair.com/index.html)

[Paladini]

Mutt, I think Znote was referring to the impending loss of non-SV Hadj contracts flown by AAI. AAI is trying to switch to an all -400 fleet, with exception of the cargo ops.

Last year, Garuda refused to accept TF-ARS, a -300, due to the fact the cabin fixtures are unsuitable for transport of humans. So AAI had NO aircraft for the Indonesian Hadj. They operated a few aircraft for SV into Jakarta but nothing for Garuda. As far as I know, that aircraft is still mouldering away in Merana, and is unlikely to be accepted anywhere except Africa.

Al Wafeer Air will probably not be a "nail-in-the coffin" so to speak, but unless AAI sharpens up their act, they will find it difficult to operate from anywhere except Saudi Arabia and Nigeria. Garuda drew the line on QUALITY ... AAI is still ignoring there is a problem.

[oceancrosser]

Garuda drew the line on QUALITY ...

Now there is a cause for a grin... :}

[Atlanta-Driver]

You will find that ARS ended up being toasted in DAC a few years back so it would not have been available for last hajj season, unless one wanted to fly on a wing and a half and 3 engines.

[Paladini]

Oops, Simon, you are correct..... must have been TF-ARH they turned down.

mea culpa, mea maxima culpa..........:}

[Tropical Update]

TF-ARH will definately not meet any passenger requirements, it is a freighter!
Even Icelanders are not that rude to offer a freighter for Hajj-flights.

[Paladini]

JEEZ.. you guys are a tough audience!

TropicalUpdate: Don't be too sure about your last comment. It would not surprise me if AAI tried that some time. They respect their customers just half an iota more than they respect their ex-pat crews.

PERCHANCE, yea PERCHANCE.... could the aircraft refused by Garuda have been TF-ARU???? Had to take a quick perusal of my logbook.

If it wasn't TF-ARS, it was TF-ARU.....(ducking for the cover of the dining table):oh:

[gubaclagan]

Are there any more encouraging news or otherwise regarding AAI's survival thru the economic upheaval? Share us through this forum. People who have worked and served years with AAI should always be interested to listen or read the latest!

[doubleu-anker]

I was hoping your post was going to inform us all that this outfit was consigned to oblivion.

All it has done is trigger flashbacks from my time there, as I am still traumatised and having nightmares, from the mauling I experienced there.

[gubaclagan]

Just hoping that people can read what has been written between the lines and they can come out with good or bad to that effect. Having resigned more than a year ago made me feel good something in disguise. On the otherhand, there is always the disadvantage or advantage for every decision I made during my time with AAI.

[UFGBOY]

They could save a lot by auditing the Travel Department...

the money they p)))s away is unreal

[747guru]

....brings back memories, the day they told an F/O to position to SHJ from DXB via London!!!! After protesting he called them back an hour later saying that he was already there.....via a taxi!!!! Fond memories.....

[Urraca]

I feel the same,
I left a year ago this month and I feel lucky the Bastards in the office oppted to listen to this"FURLOUGH" me !!!! Fat chance, they should have said you are fired. Got an e-mail from airborne 2 months ago telling me I better start looking for another job. How stupid can they be !!! I started looking as soon as they told me to go home. I am flying, and in Europe, and I cna come home every month WITH PAY !!!! Not like the KRAPP they had and still have. I did here they called some guys back and are now flying !!! Feel sorry for them, they are just either looking for a 400 spot or they are asleep and in another world. Good luck to all, the group with a few exeptions like the ******* chief engineer are great guys. Bruce should get the remaining a/c, extend the flaps and ram it up his assssss !!! :ok:

[18-Wheeler]

...brings back memories, the day they told an F/O to position to SHJ from DXB via London!!!! After protesting he called them back an hour later saying that he was already there.....via a taxi!!!! Fond memories.....


PMSL!
Yeah I remember that one - Arngrimmer himself told me that one .... after he'd sold the company. :)
I use to tell it to some of the people I worked with after I left AAI, when they complained about their company doing daft things.
"You think that's bad, how about this then ...."
:D

[400tons]

Same same Urraca,I am also so happy I left this :mad: company,no future over there!!!!!!!
Guys..take the money and leave as soon as you can or after the hajj it will be the same.. ULV:E

[747guru]

18 wheeler

....and the fish heads were even quietly proud of this story....

[UFGBOY]

How about MAN-DUB-AMS ?

When queried.. 'Oh we just ask xxx (their 'travel provider; based in USA whose knowledge of geography was on a par with the Travel Office themselves) for the best deal!!!

[isle_of_man]

Hi all,
from today's news

Report: Air Atlanta Icelandic B742 over Romania on Jul 14th 2007, strong odour in cockpit (http://avherald.com/h?article=41b405b5&opt=0)

Report: Air Atlanta Icelandic B742 over Romania on Jul 14th 2007, strong odour in cockpit


By Simon Hradecky, created Tuesday, Jun 16th 2009 09:16Z, last updated Tuesday, Jun 16th 2009 12:35ZAn Air Atlanta Icelandic Boeing 747-200 freighter on behalf of Malaysia Airlines, registration TF-ATX performing freight flight MH-6151 from Milan Linate (Italy) to Dubai (United Arab Emirates) with 2 passengers and 3 crew, was enroute overhead Romania, when an odour in the cabin appearing shortly after takeoff became so strong, that the passengers complained about the smell. The captain, who was aware the airplane carried some level 9 hazardeous material (hazard to environment) sent the flight engineer to the cargo bay to inspect the cargo. When the flight engineer returned to the cockpit, he immediately donned his oxygen mask, then reported a piece of cargo just underneath the cockpit, that leaked vapour or fumes. The flight engineer felt dizzy and said, he was about to pass out. At this point the captain noticed, that the first officer acted strangely and showed signs of hypoxia. The first officer donned his oxygen mask, the captain used his oxygen mask only occasionally as he did not feel any symptom other than the odour. Without declaring emergency the captain decided to divert to the closest available airport at Budapest and requested a technical landing reporting the odour at 21:16LT (19:16Z). He decided to land as quickly as possible and opted to not dump fuel, but perform an overweight landing. The aircraft landed safely 25 minutes later.


The Hungarian Transportation Safety Board reported in their English report (http://www.rnf.is/media/skyrslur/2007/TF-ATX-Lokaskyrsla.pdf) released via the Icelandic "Rannsóknarnefnd flugslysa" (RNF), that the material was a synthetic pharmaceutic raw material. That material was solid below 5 degrees Centigrade, at higher temperatures the material becomes fluid and then intensively evaporates. During loading in Linate, which took several hours, the outside temperature had been around 30 degrees Centigrade, the temperature in the cargo bay had become even higher. Due to lack of cooling in the cargo bay the material evaporated during the flight and leaked through the non-airtight plastic barrels. The vapor caused nausea, the use of the oxygen masks prevented a deterioration of the situation.

The Hungarian TSB concluded:

3.1 Direct causes of the occurrence

- The company that prepared the hazardous material BAL5287 for shipping (Antibioticos S.P.A.) did not indicate on the shipping documentation and on the storage containers the required temperature while in storage and during shipping, and did not provide airtight containers.
- The cargo loader – while being aware of the fact that they were handling dangerous goods – did not check the MSDS upon receipt (they did not open the envelope containing the document) therefore the required storage temperature of +5 C° was neither ensured nor noted on the NOTOC.
- The required temperature of +2…+8 C° in the aircraft's cargo bay was not provided for the 149 kgs of vaccination that was listed in the NOTOC and was transported in JL position.
- The required cooling in the aircraft’s cargo bay was not provided for the 90 kgs of chocolate that was listed in the NOTOC and was transported in QL position.
- Due to lack of cooling, the crystallization of the material that could have prevented evaporation of dangerous vapours could not take place.
- The cargo load inspector did not sign the NOTOC and the captain accepted it without the signature.

3.2 Indirect causes of the occurrence

- The captain was aware of the procedures of the emergency manual for Category Nine dangerous goods but he did not consider the use of oxygen mask mandatory for himself.

3.3 Risk factors that cannot be linked to the occurrence

- There were several packages where the UN sign, the UN number, the PSN number, or the sender's data were covered or otherwise not clearly visible.
- The ULD identification tags contained the three-letter cargo IMP code, in contradiction with the IATA DGR which requires the usage of Class/Division Numbers.
- There were simultaneously Air Malaysia and Air France package ID labels on the packages which is not allowed.
- The form for listing the non-radioactive dangerous goods was a 2006 edition, and the answers given to questions No. 37 and No. 51 were incorrect.
- The medical check in the captain's pilot licence expired on 2 June 2007.



DOES ANYBODY KNOW SOMETHING MORE???

[Urraca]

let the dream go ON. There are about 5 crews from TAG training at ALTION for their 777, They will be flying that route, I asked them about the AAI deal and all said the A/C has been grounded ever since it got to Luanda. All the guys were in the B747 before coming to train in the 777.
I am glad I was sent home last year, had time to get back , relax and find another job. If still there, Good Luck getting one when the ship full of rats go down, specially the incestuous residents of the Northern Rock !!!! paladin, they will pay, bloody pay, better not come near where i am, except for a few like argrimurs son he is nice. The rest can kiss my ass, specially the Chief F/E from down under !!!!:ugh::ugh:

[Urraca]

400 tons,
I hope the guys smell the roses and do take their money and run !!! looks like the Grim ripper is coming to get them !!!!!:ok:

[411A]

Chief F/E from down under ...

My God, is he still there?

[CR2]

FFS.. +2/+8C on the maindeck of a 742 is a no-can-do. After hours and hours of cruise coming out of DXB (lets say 35-40C) you might just get about 15C. WTF wasn't this stuff in the rear belly? (fairly decent temp control).

And before anyone talks about what a 744F can or can't do... believe me , it can't (Boeing say it can, but then Airbus said the A380 was a good -F too). I have been in the 400F game since 93. (1st one, 2nd one, 3rd one, 25th one etc etc... ever built).

[Podunk]

Latest rumour from the sand pit is that AAI has complained formally to Saudia about the recent hiring of 8-9 South African F/Es. Seems the former Airborne Personnel contractors, who had been flying on the AAI contract in JED, have been hired by SV.

AAI seems bent on trying to prevent their employment on grounds they were AAI employees !

Kudos to SV for pointing out they were contractors and NOT AAI property. Free market provides free opportunity...

Suck on that fact, AAI. If you're gonna try to screw your ex-contractors..... you'll find that you'll have many more targets in the next few weeks and fewer crew to man the fleet....:ok:

Good on ya Saudia HR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[weido_salt]

Well that fits. Screw your crew, they will walk at the first opportunity.

Your post indicates there maybe an element of surprise at the actions of these morons. I am not suprised in the least.

If they were not ACMI, would you be surprised if they were paying cash for essential services? I wouldn't.

[400tons]

Saudia HR:ok:keep on going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

AAI, everything goes around comes around,its your turn..what do you expect?

[Whiskery]

.....specially the Chief F/E from down under

Good bloke young Bruce, except he barracks for Essendon!;)

Interesting that most of the whingers on this thread,complaining about AAI, couldn't get a job with any other Company.

Being brutally honest, the only "bad" thing about AAI is the uncertainty of one's longevity with the Company. That,unfortunately,is the same with ALL wet lease operators - your job is only as good as the next contract!:ok:

[Earl]

This was tried with a few Captains, Italian types from Phuket Air,
Same thing different day, less than 1 year ago.
This letter did end up in HR with Saudia, the Italian Captains were never hired after there sim checks,
I hope Saudia HR learned something from this.
If crews are furloughed and AAI or Phuket has no more work for them then they are free to go.
Saudia is a real company, not ACMI type, with contracts that are followed.
You may hear a lot of bad things about Saudi Arabia on here, but rarely ever about how the crews are treated.
Give it up AAI, you don't have any work, let these people go and pay there bills!
I am really shocked to hear this, AAI was a marginal half way decent company years ago, what happened?
If you wish to keep crews on standby then you should be paying them to stay!
Cant have it both ways!
Surprised you even have the audacity to try!

[weido_salt]

Whiskery (I would lay off it if I were you)

"Interesting that most of the whingers on this thread,complaining about AAI, couldn't get a job with any other Company."

Hang on a minute sport.

When I kicked AAI into touch I have never looked back and am still gainfully employed thank you very much. Doing 100 hours per year max, flying corporate on decent pay. I work for company who values their employees and treats them like human beings. AAI was the worst company I ever worked for because of the lies and the cancerous nepotism, to name just few.

The present outfit I work for have their faults but AAI could offer me double the pay and I still would tell them to take a running jump, in the extremely unlikely event I would be asked.

You see I get paid to stick around.

Oh BTW I did not need a validation when I worked at AAI.

[mutt]

the Italian Captains were never hired after there sim checks SVA didnt hire ANY 747 Captains in the last year, plus you might discover that at least 1 of the Italians was recently hired to a different fleet.

Mutt

[Earl]

The rest are with Midex.

[Whiskery]

weido salt - so after your time in AAI you secured a corporate flying job. Why not the corporate job on 100 hours per year before you joined AAI?

AAI could offer me double the pay and I still would tell them to take a running jump, You wouldn't get a job with AAI flying 100 hours a year!:rolleyes:

My point is you can get a job with AAI with very little experience and build up hours on wide body heavy transport aircraft. Unfortunately, you have to take the !!!! for a while to get enough experience to enjoy the spoils of a job you now have.:D

......lies and the cancerous nepotism These "attributes" lay within most ACMI operations. Get used to it or get out - sad fact !:ugh:

[weido_salt]

"Why not the corporate job on 100 hours per year before you joined AAI?"

Don't know, luck of the draw I guess. Please be assured, my situation was desperate at the time, that is why I joined AAI. Any port in storm, as the old saying goes. I do hope I am never in the same situation where I have to even contemplate resorting to the likes of AAI. In fact I would give up aviation, if I was reduced to that level again. :)

"Get used to it or get out."

Get used to it? Not me mate. S**t on me and I walk, as I am nobodies whore and don't intend to be. I bend over for no one :=

[Whiskery]

Please be assured, my situation was desperate at the time, that is why I joined AAI. Any port in storm, as the old saying goes.

So it was OK to be a "whore" whilst you were desperate but not by choice now you have your comfortable corporate job.

That's the whole point - You have to be desperate to work for AAI and when they give you a job, instead of toughing it out, you bitch about trivialities like "the lies and the cancerous nepotism" - GIVE ME FRIGGIN BREAK!:ugh:

[weido_salt]

Don't ever recall insinuating I did any work. Was "there" for a (remunerated) period of time, that's all you need to know.

They didn't s:mad:w me.

Before you attack that unfortunate keyboard again, don't assume.

[Whiskery]

that's all you need to know.

Yeah, right.

They didn't s:mad:w me
Yeah, right!

[Urraca]

Complains to SV because they hired F/E's that were stuck in assam? Now that really shows how low they think about contractors !!! Shame on AAi !!! How low can you go?

[400tons]

Not only that Urraca,Capt,F/O's and F/E's at home since months without any income;this is what AAI calls "being flexible"
That's why we leave this :mad: flying club!!!!!
SV:D

[mutt]

At least in SV, the new FE's can sit around for months with an income :ok::ok:

Mutt

[bcgallacher]

For those readers who are ex AAI, be informed that ex CEO Hafthor Hafstiensson - "Haffi" - was killed in a light aircraft accident in Iceland at the weekend - I understand the aircraft hit a power cable. He was very much instrumental in bringing AAI from a 2 aircraft Hajj operator to what was a 50 aircraft company.

[747guru]

So HE was the brains behind AAI???

Current management seem to be determined to drive the company back to a 2-plane operation!!!

R.I.P. "Haffi"

[jumbolloyd]

Well of course the current management want to drive it back to a 2 plane operation...what else can they do when you have to employ stupid cod-head pilots to work for you. AAI was built to a almost 30 aircraft company when they had lots of contracrors working for them who knew what it takes to make a company work and knew what loyalty meant, the cod-head pilots as usual go out of their way to poison everything they touch.:sad:

[Donkey Duke]

I just saw a photo with an Air Atlanta Icelandic 74F at Byrno, and it was stated that it was flying for MasKargo. Do they normally fly to Byrno, and where do the 747-200F usually fly? (via Air Atlanta Icelandic) What are the conditions? Cheers!

[C-N]

where is Byrno? what is its code

[proxus]

Why does it seem as it is acceptable on this website to use quite freely racist remarks and slangs ?

Now it is quite clear and obvious that jumbolloyd has a big issue with AAI and maybe few of my fellow countrymen, but how in the world does this website and its moderators allow him to use words like "Cod-Heads" and "IceNiggers" when talking about us ?I know you'll not find the latter word because I reported it and it was removed but not before that like it should be. And shame on the rest of you for not thinking anything of this!

No one would get away using what is now considered derogatory slang about peoples nationality like used for Chinese, Mexican, Italian, Polish and whatnot.
Why should it be any different for us?..

I have been a member of this site for quite some time now and have on most occasion admired how it is control and how valuable, informative and respectful most replies are until now.

I admit that I have complained about this use of "Cod-Heads" or "Fish-Heads" and it has not been considered worthwhile to reply to me, let alone remove them from this discussion.

What do you think ?

Proxus.

[ZAZOO]

I totally agree with you, you should browse through the African Forum and threads, its terrible these days.

Oh well I am happy just reading these days.

Zazoo

[411A]

What do you think ?

Leaving aside the derogatory comments for the moment, I watched as an AAI ground engineer replaced an INS unit years ago...with NO serviceable tag.
When I asked about this..I was told...'never mind, it works, I hope'.
This was just before the airline was grounded in the UK, for ten days.
Draw your own conclusions.:rolleyes:

[Atlanta-Driver]

Why Proxus old chap.A bit incensed are we not? I see from your profile that you are a student and perhaps not quite familiar with the intricate system that could be described as segregation by contract and nationality with AAI.

Air Atlanta has for years among with other Icelandic companies resorted to what one can only describe as racist and discriminatory employment practices with the assistance and full acceptance of FIA/FFF. Many of our esteemed colleagues from the rock had the indecency to flaunt and rub their superiority and untouchability in our faces with great satisfaction and regularity. Not all of the Icelanders where at this though but those few malicious ones where louder and more aggressive painting the rest with the same brush of guilt. Ie: Guilt by association.

You might find that due to these practices add the economic disaster Icelanders are unfortunately starting to have a reputation around that is not enviable.

I recommend you read through all the AAI thread on the forum and talk to some of the contractors before you throw on us your righteous indignation about a matter that you clearly know nothing about.

Hope this gives some background and eases your distress.

[Whiskery]

This was just before the airline was grounded in the UK, for ten days.

Yes 411A, due to bull!!!! fed to the CAA by a couple of lying whistleblowers. The Airline was vindicated and substantially compensated for the disruption.

proxus - Cod head no different to being called a Pom, Yank, Yarpee or Convict (Aussie). Lighten up and look at it as a term of endearment!;)

[znote6224w]

Well said, well put, the nail on the head and all that. Whish I had you way with words. Wonder what EU has to say about all this Iceland/Crawley/Guernsy mess.

[411A]

Yes 411A, due to bull!!!! fed to the CAA by a couple of lying whistleblowers
IF the UKCAA had followed up, they would have found the totally bogus serviceable tags (few, that were there) provided by AAI's guy at MZJ, who was told to hire a DAR to properly document the spares (but didn't)...simply because AAI was too cheap to pay the bill.
What goes around, comes around.

Sadly, Whiskery has totally duff gen...no surprise there.:rolleyes:

[proxus]

Why Proxus old chap.A bit incensed are we not? I see from your profile that you are a student and perhaps not quite familiar with the intricate system that could be described as segregation by contract and nationality with AAI.

Thank you for reminding me to update my profile. That information is 9 yrs old now.

You're absolutely right, I do not know the claimed intricate threads of national segregation woven into this company and my point was not directed at it.
No matter what, in a civilized discussion "Ice Nigger" would not be used.

But if I'd use my layman eyes, I can try to make a comment about this company. As far as I can see, it an Icelandic founded company were mostly the Icelandic pilots work on a union contract. To meet extra demand the company hires in contracted pilots who are, by my understanding, on a lesser T&C than the pilots with the union contract which is in my eyes pretty normal. Almost all the time, it has been better to have a backing of a union than to be on your own, right?

So the time goes by and after some years the contracted pilots get pissed off because the union pilots are rubbing their contract into the faces of the contracts ?
So what, because of some few stupid union pilots, do I deserve to called derogatory names on a public website?

And as far as discriminatory company goes, how about one Icelandic airline who does not hire Icelandic pilots, Jetx! They have openly stated that they will not hire Icelandic pilots (they're afraid that we want to join a union if there's to many of us in one place).

So my point is, even though you have had some run-ins with a few, don't transfer that to us all.

[Nippon1]

Well we should know soon as my court case against AAI/Airborne is scheduled for Sept 28th in the UK.....One of the main points will be the relationship between Iceland/AAI/Airborne and their place in the EU.

[400tons]

Atlanta-Driver you are 100% right:D
OMann,give us this email and link,I will also sue them!:E

[Urraca]

Casio,
"We fired you" you sound like part of the problem, first of all I was not fired. :=:=:=

[TheWanderer]

Iceland has an interesting website: asi - www.asi.is (http://www.asi.is) regarding its labour market.
Parts of the site are also available in english: asi - Labour market (http://www.asi.is/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-300//408_read-830/)

Document "Rights and employment terms of foreign workers on the Icelandic labor market" (http://www.asi.is/Portaldata/1/Resources/documents/Kjarasamn_enska_isl_2008_HQ.pdf) (page 2) :

Wage terms of foreign employees and control of them
According to Icelandic law, wages and other terms of employment as negotiated by
the social partners shall be minimum wages irrespective of gender, nationality or
employment period for all employees in the relevant field of work in the area covered by
the agreement. This also applies to all employees of employers who are outside of the
organizations of employers or have not themselves entered into collective agreements
with trade unions. The agreements of individual employees and employers on worse
terms of employment than stated in the collective agreements are invalid and not
binding for the employee.So if an Icelandic company is giving contracts with worse conditions than their own collective agreements, these contracts are null and void?
What happenes to these contracts?

[SE210]

I flew for Air Atlanta a few years back, and I was actually not unhappy about the company.

About the discrimination issue mentioned earlier, I believe that the FIA contract pays it's pilots in Icelandic kroners. Since the Icelandic curreny is only worth about 20% of it's value 2 years ago, the FIA contract is not attractive right now.

Can anybody confirm this?

Brgds

SE210

[Whiskery]

C-N

where is Byrno? what is its code

LKTB - Czech Republic

[Aviator 101]

"And as far as discriminatory company goes, how about one Icelandic airline who does not hire Icelandic pilots, Jetx! They have openly stated that they will not hire Icelandic pilots (they're afraid that we want to join a union if there's to many of us in one place)."

Actually proxus I do believe that they have Icelandic pilots, at least on a flight with them last month from Malaga to Iceland there was a Icelandic pilot flying.

[proxus]

Well if that's the case then they might have changed policies as it would be illegal to discriminate against one nation. (esp. it's own countrymen)

[zfwmac]

So, anyone know how Nippon 1 got on with his court case?

[Nippon1]

Due to procrastination court case delayed until Nov 18th.......The good news is that it is being held in my home town so at least I dont have to travel.

[paco59]

Why is the icelandair pilot union is not doing anything about non JAR pilots with validations flying JAR aircraft when icelandair pilots sit at home with no money?

santa barbara airline use smartlynx Jar aircraft but use canadain and american pilot. they have no jar and on validations??!!

on my last flight the canadian fleet cheif was laughing he didn't have jar license? why is this so. why people not complain?

[Atlanta-Driver]

Latcharter come Smartlynx is a starnge operation. What I've been told by people who worked there that operation is about as messy as any third world country could provide.

I am quoting some of the people here that have worked for this operation as well as my own experiences with the now unnamed people as the forum rules require.

A few years back there was what I have been described as the unholy triangle.

Fleet chief of the 767 suffers a napoleon complex being of relatively short in the height deparment. He is a good example of one that uses his skin tone as an excuse for incompetence. I can attest to this after meeting him several times in LGW while his tenure with Excel/Air Atlanta on the 767 and will stand by my words in court if required. Apparently every pilot disagreeing with him is either racially moivated of after his job. He will promote people based on their ability to kiss his hindquarters rather than their ablity.

Manager of crew resources of Smart Lynx I unfortunately know personally. It was said that while in Jakarta office during a hajj pilots rather talked to the plant in the office than to him. Other than that in Lagos during the Nigerian airways deal with AAI he would be busy fighting his fellow workers over local prostitutes attention :}

The unnamed crew contract manager from Ireland. Same gentleman who was in charge of Air Atlanta contracts at one point. Enough is said of him on this forum so no need to elaborate or is there? However he is no longer in charge.

Between the three they made the operation into a bananashow.

I understand AAI policy for contracting people or rather letting them go. If on a downturn they will empty their S.hitlist and then reduce by nationality Icelanders being the last

What I cannot understand is Smartlynx firing all European pilots from 767 with one exception and keeping only Americans and Canadians. I know why they do it, the chief only keeps his buttbuddies in the company and lets anyone with a percieved or real problem with his personality go.

l It does NOT sink into me why are non EU nationals allowed to work for a EU company WITHOUT work permits. Why where what was then Latcharter employees allowed to live and work in UK without a UK work permit like the so called chief pilot 767 and why governments do not do anything anything about the matter while hundreds of European pilots are unemployed.

[situation normal]

Hello,
I spoke to Icelandic pilot the other day, he told of how smartlynx wants to put the 2 767's on Icelandic reg., Is this the End of smartlynx/latcharter ?

[cp35]

You all must have seen the email from airborne today, it seems that AAI is having cashflow trouble and as usual they will pay the contractors last.

[cp35]

AAI has not paid the contractors salaries today as they claim they are waiting for one of there customers to pay. cashflow is usually the first sign of trouble.

[747JJ]

I am sorry to hear that. I sincerely hope that this is just temporary and the usual SVA late payment. Keeping my fingers crossed and with best wishes.

[znote6224w]

Everything in AAI is temporary. I´ll bet there will be an email in your inbox later today or tomorrow stating that contractors with fees under 4.000 will be paid first. After all money for the football team and the christmas party must have priority. Heard people are refusing to fly untill paid.

[747guru]

...the miracles of miracles remains that AAI is still in business at all!!! There were "cashflow" problems, even in the cargo go-go years (2003-2007).

Maybe the company is saving up to help pay back the $5bn dollars that "the Rock" owe to the Dutch & UK Govt's for the failure of Icesave etc....just a thought....

but on a serious note, I hope you all get paid soonest....otherwise "down tools" is my advice...

[MaxBlow]

footballteam ? What footballteam ? Did I miss anything ?

[Freightops]

411A you were fired. You left the 1011 at a station where there was no maintenance with the APU running and the fuel pump burned over due to fuel starvation. THE AIRPLANE COULD HAVE BURNT DOWN. We all know you dont like AAI. You dont have to. If you want to write something then at least stick to the truth.

Earl you claim to be an expert. Whenever something happens at AAI its only speculations. I remember a cetrain accident in SHJ where you started the first day on this forum. Dont you owe to your fellow crewmembers at least showing the professionalism to wait at least for the preliminary report instead of what you wrote? You kept leaving and coming back until they had enough and say no more. Ive heard from your friends that you hate it where you are. This is your own fault. Why are U playing the victim here?

[747guru]

MaxBlow

The only football team I know of that is remotely connected with "The Rock" is West Ham Utd in UK, but I hear that the fish head owner was a forced seller recently when he amassed debts of $300m.....yikes!!!

[3 Holer]

Heard people are refusing to fly untill paid.

Hell will freeze over before that happens. :mad:

[Binthere]

Still no money in the bank!! More excuses from them..........
Maybe someone who reads this will have a few answers. If we are all contractors and as such our contract is with Airborne, surely they are responsible for paying us regardless directly. Nowhere in my contract with Airborne does it say my pay transfer is directly related to Airborne being paid by AAI. If I have done the work and submitted my 'work invoice' to Airborne then the onus is on them to pay me as agreed. If they do not have enough money in the Bank to pay people, then surely they are insolvent? Being insolvent and continuing to trade is fraudulent, isn't it? especially if they continue to offer contracts to new people during such times? Regardless if they try to hide behind an address in Gurnsey but continue to trade from offices on the UK mainland.
Anyone have any constructive ideas about this?????

[747JJ]

Actually, unless this has changed of late, all my contracts with ACE, Airborne had that clause regarding customer airline's failure to pay. I've seen similar with drafts elsewhere as well. No pay from customer no pay to the contractor.

[Whiskery]

My Daddy once told me:

"Son, if your boss can't pay you this month's wages, he's got :mad: all chance of paying you double next month!"

Unless you like working for ziltch, I would seriously consider alternative employment!

[weido_salt]

Whiskery

"Unless you like working for ziltch, I would seriously consider alternative employment!"

Well, the AAI cheerleaders are starting to change their tune!!

Where you gonna go, with recent experience on an obsolete type? Even worse with guys operating on a validation I would have thought. Don't give me that "wide body time" c:mad:p either. Fly the flight deck and the rest will follow.

AAI are getting what they have deserved.

[Whiskery]

Where you gonna go, with recent experience on an obsolete type? Even worse with guys operating on a validation I would have thought. Don't give me that "wide body time" c:mad:p either. Fly the flight deck and the rest will follow.

Fine, then fly for no pay - it ain't going to bother AAI! :rolleyes:

[411A]

If you want to write something then at least stick to the truth.


What you have omitted, Freightops, with your nonsensical diatribe, is that I was TOLD to leave the APU operating, by the Gatwick maintenance malcontents, who then cancelled their travel to the airplane...and forget all about the APU.
This would be in keeping, of course, with the AAI lack of maintenance oversight, inability of using a DAR at MZJ to properly certify spares, then installing these illegal spares on line aircraft.
I know the folks that were at MZJ, and have all the details.
AAI, still being run by malcontent locals, will never change...and I expect will slowly fade away.
Good riddance, I say.

[Freightops]

First of all you left the airplane in STN where we had no maintenance personel. Second you knew that the airplane would be parked for consirerable time there. Third you as a captain should not leave the airplane unatended with the APU running.

Dont forget that you also tried with your friend the colonel to get AAI to do business with you in MZJ. AAI refused. Then your friend threatened AAI that they would never be able to take aircrafts out of there.

AAI has been a very forgiving company. Many people left and were welcome back.

Is this how you are going to spend your early retirement trying to tear down AAI with homemade version of lies?

God help us all.

Why dont you enjoy your retirement attending to your cats?

I have seen lots of comments from you and replies. It seems that people are getting a bit tired of you a long time ago. You just dont want to see it.

Do everyone a fabour 411A. or RW. Take a vacation or something.

[747JJ]

Love is in the air...

[411A]

Love is in the air...
Is it ever.:ok:
AAI lost their Britannia contract (two aircraft) due to their grounding by the UKCAA, and it went to Aer Turas...paid better, too....especially for yours truly.
Thanks, AAI!
All the relevant details were sent to the UKCAA (including the bit about stiffing the DAR at MZJ that was eventually hired to certificate spares...then (no surprise), not paid.
What goes around comes around, and AAI will (has already) suffer the consequences...including hiring Jerry Springer to 'try' to promise folks...then back away.
Sadly, AAI is but a shell of its former self...now up the creek without a paddle.
Even the 'Prince of Darkness' called me up at 4am some time ago, asking for a...'position for our Flight Engineers'...what he really meant to say was...'hey, I'm out of a job, let me in.'
Fat chance that will happen.
Ha!
Ugandan (Malta passport) nationals not accepted here....ever.

Yup, love in the air, all around....!:}

[Freightops]

First of all we did not have a contract during those years with Britannia.
We did a occasional flight for them when they had AOGs.

We had a contract with Caledonian and Monarch. AAI did not lose any contract during this because the CAA found nothing wrong.
Why dont you accept the facts?

Shortly afterwards we signed a contract with Lufthansa, Cargolux, Virgin Atlantic, Malasyan, Saudia, Garuda.

We had a contract with Britannia in the early 80s on a B737.

The prince of Darkness is already reaching retirement age and cannot fly as a captain after 65. If he wants to be a flight engineer good for him.

AAI is already moving from the Classic to the -400s so they dont take on any more engineers.

Why dont you stick to things you know about silly old man:ok::D

[411A]

AAI is already moving from the Classic to the -400s so they dont take on any more engineers.

Of course not, and they have failed totally.
AAI will die a slow death...goodbye, and good riddance.
SVA is done for them, not much else is left.
The codheads will have to suffer...ahhh, poor babies.:{:{
Their currency is in the tank, inflation rampent, economy in the toilet...the end of the road is...soon to arrive.
Couldn't be more pleased!

[aba71]

Shortly afterwards we signed a contract with Lufthansa, Cargolux, Virgin Atlantic, Malasyan, Saudia, Garuda.


And at one point the Titanic was afloat.......
Correct me if im wrong, but didnt AAI loose Lufthansa, Virgin and Garuda b'coz of terrible performance?
This thread will go on forever. Some bitchin about conditions, some proclaiming AAI's success..
Me for one are happy to be out of there, even though I did have some great times there, and that was all thanks to some fine crews i had a chance to work with.. The company itself is a disgrace...

That said,

Happy flying everyone

[UFGBOY]

They did have contract in if my memory serves me 1996 with L10-11 at MAN; they also used to bring a B747 up from STN for the weekend for coverage as well

[411A]

They did have contract in if my memory serves me 1996 with L10-11 at MAN; they also used to bring a B747 up from STN for the weekend for coverage as well

And 1997, and two dedicated L10 aircraft in 1998, at MAN.
Then, then axe fell on their maintenance due to the UKCAA action, and Britannia bolted in '99, and leased from Aer Turas...I know because I flew the airplane.
Freightops is full of horsepucky...nothing new there.:eek:

[Whiskery]

...............axe fell on their maintenance due to the UKCAA action,

We'll have to start calling you Bob the Bull:mad:hitter. As I have told you before, there was nothing came out of that action because the whistleblowers were compulsive lyers and disgruntled ex-AAI staffers. AAI ended up with a nice compensation cheque, compliments of the UK taxpayers and it was business as usual.

You just never seem to get your facts straight....and to quote your goodself..................nothing new there.:eek:

[411A]

....and it was business as usual.


Without the two aircraft Britannia contract, the following year, which went bye-bye.
AAI has always had problems with their maintenance support, and I suspect it hasen't changed one bit, now.
Codheads in charge, expect poor results.:eek:

[oceancrosser]

From 411A:

SVA is done for them, not much else is left.

I have no connections to AAI except knowing a few guys flying there, but
is that why they apparently have 11 airplanes flying Hajj for SVA this year?

Referring to 411A´s posts in general, his posts on this thread appear to be the usual drivel.

[411A]

but
...is that why they apparently have 11 airplanes flying Hajj for SVA this year?

Hajj is a different matter altogether, oceancrosser (as you may or may not know...more than likely, not:}) however, the true test of AAI flying for SVA will come next year.
SaudiArabia has a brand new aircarrier with 744 equipment, which will eat into AAI's business greatly.
I expect there will be no longer-term contracts in Saudi for AAI, and their Hajj business will likely decrease as well.
Those foreign airlines that are counting on long term business from SVA had better make different plans....sooner rather than later.

[tiger19]

this new Saudi Airline must be close to a start as a mate of mine who was flying B747-4's for Oasis out of Hong Kong has just started with this Saudi mob.

[411A]

They have started flying already, as their AOC was issued October 5.

[dynasty744]

Well with the 3 passenger 400's that AAI have added to the SV contract this month, along with the 2 cargo 400's already there and another to arrive early next year, I'd say things were looking pretty good for AAI in the Kingdom.