Britannia lost it's image

[Captain Chaos 747]

At Cardiff today and was told to line up after the landing Britannia and when I saw it I nearly vomitted. It's new paint scheme is awful,it has lost it image, looks like a cheap and nasty airline. Britannia is one of the best airlines in the uk and it's image is reconised by the consumers and is a well known brand and now with its new logo (which must have been designed by a 2 year old)and dull paint scheme means nothing, just does not catch your eye. Shame! but still a brilliant airline.

BLOODY GERMANS.

[willoman]

You should see it up-close ( as in a walk round )
The finish is so bad, it looks as though Del-boy was given the contract. If it was a motor vehicle, the owner would reject it !!!

[Katoi]

BIK 116.80. Please grow up.

[Captain Chaos 747]

Willowman you work for a great company I just feel sorry for you that you have to fly around in something that looks so bad but at least you still have a job and thats the main thing. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

When it was taxing onto stand ATC reply to its paint job was "oh dear!"

[Buster the Bear]

http://justplanes.net/images/welcome619.jpg

B757 wearing the new livery.

[touch&go]

Any links to a picture of the colour scheme?

[Pilot Pete]

Sad, but don't worry, you can't see it from the front two seats unless you're on a stand in front of a glass terminal!!

Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about; I fly for jmc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At least you're getting a pay RISE, as opposed to us who are just getting shafted.

Enjoy, or if you must vomit please get it all in the bag and TAKE IT WITH YOU!

PP

[bluff]

Saw it in BHX this week, anybody know what the sort of strange "i" on the tail means?

[Pilot Pete]

TUI, I believe. From the TUI website:

TUI brand

Touristik Union International (TUI) was created in 1968 by the merger of the leading tour operators Touropa, Scharnow-Reisen, Hummel Reise and Dr. Tigges-Fahrten. Other major tour operators were added in subsequent years, e.g. Airtours in 1970. The wide spectrum of diverse brands dominated the company for over two decades until TUI Group was introduced as the master brand for the tour operator brands in 1990. The unsupported level of awareness of TUI rose within less than 10 years from around 30 per cent to 89 per cent. The successful expansion in the European source markets of Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Austria, Switzerland and Poland, as well as in the destination countries, made TUI synonymous with quality holidays. Preussag acquired the market leader in 1998.


PP

[ 21 December 2001: Message edited by: Pilot Pete ]</p>

[sharpshot]

I have seen AO at BHX too and after some banter between ATC and crew during taxi almost felt inclined to ask whose impression of the Hammer & Sickle adorned the tail.

I bet these newly painted a/c do not retain names such as Sir Matt Busby or Eric Morecambe. Better Brush up on Helmut's & Siegfrieds!!

Surprised The Union Jack survived.......

[CaptAirProx]

Saw a 757 in Newcastle the other day and in the half light of the morning the red writing on the side was lost againt the awful blue behind it. It was as if the aircraft was trying to hide the titles of its owner! I have to say the old colours seemed to stand the test of time. Much like Airtours.

[forget]

The Britannia livery was, without question, one of the smartest in the business - world-wide. It had style, it had class, and it spoke volumes about the airline. Why Why Why Change it? Remember the Pratt and Whitney eagle? Dropped for some whippersnapper's idea of a 'symbolic' B1-RD.

Then someone had the balls to sat 'Stop'. Anyone at Luton got the same balls?

[Racing Snake]

Forget
Think a combination of gerona and a new owner has something to do with it.
I quite like it now i have seen it in the flesh.Mind you it was 5 in the morning.
still wont have to look at it too much from the inside.

[cobbs cross]

I think you guys need to move with the times and stop going on about the good old days. We needed to change our image, it was long overdue.

[hanginthere]

Have you not seen this ?

<a href="http://www.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/open.file?id=206869" target="_blank">http://www.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/open.file?id=206869</a>

The thing on the tail is definately TUI
Nothing to do with Gerona, but yes, very German

[Devils Advocate]

Yeah, and fair enough about moving with the times, but whilst it probably earnt some design / image consultancy a small fortune, I'm sorry to say that (IMHO) it sucks ! As in, 'is that really the best that they could come up with ?' , and call me an old xenophobe if you wish, but it seems to smack of some sort of Turkish influence (e.g. check out their flag), and whilst I'm sure that Turkish Airlines are all well and good, but - to paraphrase Maggie Thatcher - "Where's the BRITISH in it ?!" ....... outside of the sorry looking, as in "we're almost ashamed to admit that we are actually British", Union Jack stuck down at the a_rse end.

Also, the last person who tried to be recognised by a 'symbol' was the artist formally known as 'Prince' - or was it 'Ponce' - anybody heard anything of him recently ?!

Now if you wanna see something with some REAL CLASS - neigh, fabulously understated - take a look at these pictures of the American Airlines 40th Aniversary 'Retro' B757:

<a href="http://www.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/open.file?id=178390" target="_blank">http://www.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/open.file?id=178390</A>

and

<a href="http://www.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/open.file?id=168082" target="_blank">http://www.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/open.file?id=168082</A>

Now tell me that it isn't simply miles better looking ?!

E.g. If you were a pax/customer/client, which one would make you say "WOW !" when you first saw it ?

Ps. Edited to add the following link page (for more of the AA 'Retro' B757) :

<a href="http://www.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/search/photo.search?regsearch=N679AN" target="_blank">http://www.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/search/photo.search?regsearch=N679AN</A>

[ 22 December 2001: Message edited by: Devils Advocate ]</p>

[Captain Chaos 747]

You are right Devil, where is the British in Britannia, the airline will not be really reconised anymore when you lookout over the tarmac, all you will see is a very dull, boring looking thing.

Britannia have spent years on building a quality airline reconised around the world with its stylish look and from now on no one will give it a second look.

We should just hand over control of Britain to Germany after all it's only a matter of time before they control our economy and everything else. My grandparents would be rolling over in their grave if they knew what was going on after they fought in the war. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[crackerjack]

There used to be a really good airline called Air uk, with a dark blue & white colour scheme & a union jack on the tail.

It was assimilated by a foreign company and turned pale blue.

I hope this isn't a bad omen.......

[Out Of Trim]

What Image! -- What a poor paint scheme - Britannia is lost - the old colours were very old but better than the latest attempt.. bad job by someone - looks like another airline on the scrap heap doesn't it! <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[ 22 December 2001: Message edited by: Out Of Trim ]</p>

[cobbs cross]

You have got to face the facts
TUI is Britannia/Hapag/Corse and some baby airline down in Italy. A decade from now it will be a Euro Airline without a national flag to be seen. With routes like e.g HAJ-LGW-PMI-LGW-HAJ
with a German Capt sitting next to UK F/O drinking a coffee served by a French cabin crew. The punters in the back won't be bothered as long as they get to their holiday detination.

[sharpshot]

Well "cobbs cross", at least you got the nationality of the Capt. right.

Makes you wonder where all the f/o's will go to get a command.

[Wilfred]

Cobbs Cross, wouldn't happen to be management by any chance would you.

I spoke to a 'PR' woman newly arrived into Britannia shortly after the paint scheme was vomited into the media. She thought it was wonderful, oh we had to move with the times. More like follow the rest of the sheep.

The reactions here, and in the tabloids shortly after the announcement, were adverse, but these Armarni(ish)-suited-HND-in-PR people never give the Gen Pub a second thought. They merely slap each other on the back and whoop in an American stylee, and explain to one another in their heavily contrived PR/Biznuss jargon that they know best what the public needs. Then off to the wine bar to guzzle some cheap white, which they think is 'tray sheek' because the owner charges them fifteen quid for this rancid Bulgarian prune juice.

I do not think the public give a flying Fokker that they are flying with the largest tour operater in Yurp. What they do want is to know that they are being flown by people who know what they are doing, and who are recognised for doing so. The old Britannia livery was very old school, but it inspired confidence, it looked business-like. Can you imagine saying to the Army HODs "Well green is fine for when you are shooting, but we think you would come across much better to the public if you had a kind of Butlins redcoat theme for your ceremonial duties".

Welcome to Blair's Britain.

[Pilot Pete]

Wilfred

You made me smile......sorry TUI.

PP <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[AtlPax]

That thing on the tail is supposed to be a "TUI"? It looks to me like a waiter/waitress holding a tray.

The old Britannia livery looked fine to me. Why change? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[PadLock]

It's about time the old lady in the wheelchair (well, on the old livery that's what it looks like to me :) ) made way for something modern.
I suppose Peyo gave them a good deal on his 'Smurf'blue paint <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

Face it Brits, you're in the hands of the Germans now! <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[Sleeve Wing]

Yep, Padlock,and that's what concerns an awful lot of Brits at the moment.
Trouble is, not even a decent Opposition in sight!
Only lots and lots of pictures of the future President of Europe(?) and whether his offspring have had MMR jabs.

[EDDNHopper]

Captain Chaos 747,

while I agree with you that the new Britannia / Hapag Lloyd livery is somewhat weird, may I ask what this has to do with "bloody Germans"?
From your profile one would think that somebody from EARTH is rather standing above such like remarks and sentences like "My grandparents would be rolling over in their grave if they knew what was going on after they fought in the war."

While the old HF livery maybe wasn´t too attractive either, "bloody German" HF seems to be more reluctant to turn towards the new coporate identity. At least you can tell from the two websites:
<a href="http://www.hlf.de" target="_blank">Hapag LLoyd</a>
<a href="http://www.britanniaairways.com/" target="_blank">Britannia</a>

EDDNHopper

[The Guvnor]

Wilfred - strangely enough, the British Army was very into its bright colours (hence the term Redcoats as in "the redcoats are coming!") It wasn't until the Boer War where those terribly unsporting Boers wore khaki and were there for very hard to spot bumped off the Brits in great numbers (especially the officers, who wore lots of shiny stuff and were therefore very easy to spot) that the Brits decided that discretion was the better part of valour and they, too, adopted khaki uniforms. This prompted the same level of outcry as the new BY livery (except, strangely enough, from the troops on the front line in South Africa who thought this was a Pretty Good Idea).

[hanginthere]

Lets be honest as Brits

Britannia a/w was introduced to the German Market by Flight Directors(do they still exist after Islandsflug ?).
They (BY) then took upom themsleves to ignore their introduction, and directly signed a contract with Frosch Touristik GmbH (Dietmar Gunz)
They then set up Britannia Airways GmbH based in Berlin with German employees and B757s (German registered)
I was at a travel exhibition in 1998 where they
aggressively marketed their product in their Corporate identity and promised great things in
conjuction with FTI GmbH,
FTI then set up their own airline (FTI Touristik GmbH) and got more than a little inlvolved with Airtours.
FTI Airlines has now closed shop and Dietmar Gunz is a little richer.
Britannia attracted the attention of TUI since FTI was a little painfull competitor.
Britannia did have a choice.
Forget about the German market, or go along with
TUI (Preussag)
They chose the latter, who obviosly had the calls for Corporate identity
So after this flirt with the Germans they (BY) have lost their own Corporate identity
But it was their choice.
Please, do not be so hard on the 'Bloody Germans'
it was their offer and BYs' choice, absolutely nothing to to with WW2

[oncemorealoft]

There is an irony that Brits is now owned by a German company.

As Hanginginthere says, they went into Germany full of ambition. Britannia GmbH was a great little outfit thanks in no small way to the enthusiastic and highly professional German crew members (they also were great fun).

Unfortunately, Thomson Travel Group never got its act together to get a piece of the German action - all Brits plans for expansion really hinged on TTG taking a part in the market. TTG looked at FTi (GmbH's charterer) and didn't like what they saw (perhaps Airtours subsequent experience with FTi justifies TTG's caution). With TTG focussing on its own flotation, they dropped the ball and never came close to securing a deal with a major German operator.

After the floatation proved such a disaster, making just a few TTG Directors VERY comfortable thank you, the whole Group including Britannia began to flounder around unsure of which way to go.

Meanwhile, in its short life Britannia GmbH, seemed to be going down very well with its passengers despite being constrained by size through lack of TTG backing. They certainly frightened the likes of Condor for a while but you can't mess with the Germans without having a very clear plan and the determination to see things through.

Now the tables are turned, probably with the end result being a better (if not cheaper) deal for the customer - compare and contrast German and British package holidays.

The Brits name and identity sadly was probably going to disappear anyway - the Thomsons marketing types never could stand it. Now it will become subsumed into the TUI identity - the crappy new look being just the first step.

Let's hope that as many of staff as possible who made Britannia what was get to keep their jobs and have a rosier future to look forward to than the misdirection and wasted chances of the last few years.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Saw one in LTN the other day, looking rather like a Korean colour scheme when first seen. I couldn't read the name on the front either, combination of my dodgy eyes and crap scheme.

<img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[Slickster]

Wilfred, further to Guv's and your own post, I believe the British Army does wear "Butlins" style redcoats. Ever seen the changing of the guard at Buck House?! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[Mooney]

The new livery is foul!! But the last was dated.

[Balboy]

First let me say say that i'm a very proud BY cabin crew...

I do hate this colour scheme BUT..

I'm still in a job


Morale has never been better

Ive just recieved a pay rise AND

I have a christmas bonus.. the only time in my six short years.

Lets wait and see what happens..

p.s. the interior concept at the moment is Black, Orange and Red horzontal stripes ala dan Air and the German flag..

[Captain Chaos 747]

Christ! the look on the inside sounds as bad as the look on the outside!

[rentaghost]

This post is in response to hanginthere's post of 22nd December 2159...

Britannia may have been introduced to the German Market by Flight Directors, but why should they have continued down that route??? As you say, do Flight Directors still exist? - well the answer is NO - in Aviation trading terms, but the reservation side is still going (Maybe a wise idea not to have continued with their introduction then?).

Britannia then signed a contract with FTi, and set up Britannia GmbH based in Berlin, but NEVER operated B757's! Basically FTi ran Britannia GmbH, with Britannia being forced to bend continually to all FTi's whishes until FTi decided that they could do better and do it themselves!

The outcome of which we all already know, Airtours got envolved, burnt their fingers and closed it down.

At the point when you say 'Britannia' had a choice, they did not - no FTi flying, no Airline, so I am sorry, but you are wrong, Britannia did not become involved with TUI through their dealings with FTi, as Britannia GmbH was dead and buried well before any buy out.

Anyway - back to the thread, the new colours are awful, and its a great shame to see them go. They are a good Airline, but they have lost their identity, but then as 'oncemorealoft' mentions, why have an identity when you will become 'one' airline in the next couple of years?

[mccar]

Had the "privelage"??? of seeing 'AP' touch down at GLA. My first reaction was to chuckle quietly to myself. Small child scribbles with blue crayon, writes 'Britannia' in lovely red then defaces the tail with....well I don't know really.
However, reputation still one of the best and punters shouldn't be put off I don't imagine.
Why that particular choice of font for the name? It's the worst part of it!

Old one landed next day. Dated but superior.

[blue up]

Frightening thought! Now Brits have a new paintjob, bet all of the other PR firms start persuading YOUR boss that he needs a funky new color scheme. I see Airtours in a nice red/green stripey with orange dots.

GROOVY, DADDY-O!

PS Tenerife on X-mas day. ATC couldn't see the "Britannia" on the ramp. Eventually..."Is it the blue one?"

BA tailfins - Deja Vu?

[bravo 2-0]

Balboy,

If that really is the interior colour scheme, you are going to need a lot more sick bags!!

************************************************
Be alert, your airline needs lerts!! <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[FLARE DAMIT]

Interesting bitching going on about this new paint job, but one question. WHAT is actually wrong with it?. After all you only see it for a short time on the ground, passengers never really remember what colour it is or was and more to the point it is only bloody paint for goodness sakes. The a/c flies the same does the same job and we still get paid, sounds good to me. I await the inevitable bashing from the limp minded.

[Wilfred]

Flare Damit, if we take your argument to a logical conclusion, it does not matter what colour the a/c are, and all of them should therefore be white, for example.

Personally, I like to know who is flying me. As you may have gathered from my previous post on this subject, I am not at all keen on the new brand of image/PR consultants ravaging British business. However, it must take a particularly 'limp' individual not to see the value of a sound corporate identity. Most bods here happen to think that this particular identity is not as sound as the old one.

[GustyOrange]

Don't see the point in anybody grumbling about the Gerry's destroying shareholder value in overpaying for another acquisition myself. :) :) :) <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> :) :)

[FLARE DAMIT]

Ah yes Wilfred corporate identity, if you buy into that old adage then nobody would be buying half the things they do now, its price, service, reliability and saftey (in this game). Image is for the more wealthy and discerning which does'nt really apply to the charter market ( although i do concede Britannia might have the edge there ).White all over is a pain to keep clean, the ultimate is to rub the green off all over and make it shiney, a bit like AA, no paint costs no extra weight and does'nt show the dirt so easily. If you want corporate identity have it inside the cabin, after all thats where the pax spend ALL their time.The question stil remains WHAT is actually wrong with this new scheme?

[Egg Mayo]

Simple; its naff and a intelligent child of five could have done better rather than the overpaid graphic designer and associated consultancy.

True, a lot of punters couldn't give a hoot about the exterior of aircraft but the whole point is a firm has a "distinctive" identity which separates it out from the crowd. I suppose its pop psychology; eg. BA Landor scheme equals prestige, a touch of finesse, whereas BA utopia equals cheap and nasty.

[ATC Watcher]

Awful colors I agree. TUI must have paid a lot of money to get this logo done, and force it on all the airlines of its group.All their travel agencies in Germany are also showing this childish feel good design...
Interestingly , if one look closely at the Hapag Lloyd 737 photo on "hanginthere" link , you can see that the HLF 737 is registered in Greece .. So the doomsday EU deregulation scenario is slowly taking shape...
By the way, was the original Britannia livery a copy of the Boeing colors or was it the other way around ? ( except for the "old lady" of course )

[tonyt]

To answer a question with another - what was wrong with the old livery? was it 'broke'? And when every bean counter in the world rings his/her little hands together and wails about huge losses - does the cost of re-branding an entire fleet figure highly in the grand money making scheme of things?

anyone wanna bet that two or three new logos will float about for a few months, then as bean counters become even more worried the whole thing is quietly 'postponed'...

when all is said and done, there'll be more said than done.

[Captain Chaos 747]

I would not have minded it if they did a good stylish job of it.

Who knows in the next couple of years they may do a BA and put the old lady back where she belongs.

[ 29 December 2001: Message edited by: Captain Chaos 747 ]</p>

[DrSyn]

It is gratifying to think that a livery change could warrant such interest as to run to 4 pages, but there really is a lot of harping-on taking place here. It has now been said several times on this thread, this is not just Britannia, but the whole Preussag group of airlines that is adopting the corporate colour scheme. Admittedly, I have not yet seen a picture of any Corse Air aircraft similarly attired, but why does Brits get all the stick for the livery and no one else?

Equally, I also find some of the blatantly xenophobic remarks on here to show very poor taste.

It is highly unlikely that "they will do a BA" in the next couple of years with the old lady, CC747, unless the various entities were to be sold off again for some reason or other. The currently stated policy is that for cultural and marketing reasons, separate airline names will be retained under a common brand - TUI. The only likely way that they would do a BA in the future is to do a Caledonian by sidelining and then dumping the various marques to become a single Euro-airline.

For all sorts of practical reasons, we'd all have to be playing by one set of rules throughout the EU for it to happen, and that would appear to be a dream of (E)Utopian proportions in the light of current national practices!

I must admit to be less than enthusiastic about what I consider to be a particularly dull and unimaginative livery for such a large and powerful grouping. However, I also don't believe that it will have the same impact on a totally different market from that involved in the BA tail-fin fiasco which was accompanied by a lamentably unresearched change in branding stategy.

Finally, the peculiar logo on the fin is supposed to be a stylised graphic of the initials TUI, made to represent a wink . . . . at least, I believe I interpreted the vowel in that last word correctly <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[sky9]

Which is why it is called the Winky Wanky bird :)

[blended winglet]

I'm going to start a corporate branding image company, easy money, my 6 year old son can do better than the one which they have come up with so far !!

shame, let a few 'experts' lose & see what happens !!

[DrSyn]

sky9, you need to understand the art of subtlety.

[max_cont]

Don’t worry folks, you won’t be seeing too many of the new paint jobs.

With the way things are at the moment, the only aircraft that have been painted are the ones that needed a re-paint anyway. All the rest will be left in the old livery until the business gets over the current hiatus.

I don’t think too much of the new scheme either. However I’m very glad that we are safely ensconced within a very large group and because of this, we stand a good chance of coming through this better than some outfits. If the price of this job security is that they paint all the aircraft sky blue pink with yellow dots, who cares?

[PAXboy]

The logo might well be "...logo on the fin is supposed to be a stylised graphic of the initials TUI, made to represent a wink..."

To me, it looks like a toilet.

I can well udnerstand the desire to brand all corners of a company but we have seen so many re-branding efforts be ridiculed that one one has to question it.