Working on G days

[Frogman1484]

A senior manager openly said that if we stopped working on G days , they would be canceling flights...so come on guys stop working on G days:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Harbour Dweller]

Was told the same at a recent Fleet Forum.

Conversation over dinner the other night had some guys saying that Crew Control are ringing on nearly every G day. They are so desperate they are now offering your choice of multiple flights. What ever you want... just please help us out.

Lets keep the pressure up... DON'T WORK ON G DAYS

[Arfur Dent]

Just don't answer the phone!!! If you accidentally pick it up - just say you don't know where HE/SHE ie YOU is. 'Back on ..... (your next rostered duty)' - and say goodbye.
There is no voice recognition, you may be thousands of miles away on a bad line. Just don't get involved in a chat.
Easy really............:ok:

[Team America]

Is this only happening on the 744? or on all Fleets?

[Peebee and Jay]

My mobile rings on almost every G day. I have never answered and will never answer my phone. Apart from the fact that I need the rest I get on my G's, I would rather spend the time with my family. Personally, it's not about the money anymore. Why would I help someone I don't trust? It ain't rocket science.

[Humber10]

Its happening on all fleets. I've got friends that have been getting multiple phone calls on G days, for multiple flights, everytime they have a G day..... Most guys I know are getting rostered a heap of overtime aswell. I love my Gs too much to give away.... Are we cancelling flights yet, due lack of crew, parking aircraft? How many?

[ACMS]

Like I said in another thread.

CX Pilot's are working around 60 G days a month to "help" crew control get the flights away.

This info from a senior manager only a few days ago.

that's at least 2, maybe more flights per day.

BRING ON CC

[broadband circuit]

See my thread "Do you accept ..... CASH?"

If the rumour I've heard is true, they really are desperate.

[mayday911]

I have not been called in over a year on a G day....NA based -400F F/O. Never in OT, so that is not the issue.

Mayday

[AD POSSE AD ESSE]

If the rumour I've heard is true, they really are desperate


Broadband..I find this VERY hard to believe...knowing CX they will never authorise such a huge amount..

Yes..they are desperate,seriously desperate,but setting a president like that will not happen!!!

Will be interesting to see what the next DFO report says.Always some babble about fuel,tech defect etc etc..but never any mention about a crew shortage..always in denial that there is a HUGE problem facing this company..and it's about to get worse...:cool:

[DexyDogg]

So the company needs you to work on your G day. What about when you need an unexpected G? Or what about the sick policy of the company? Or what about the leave system?

When you put all of these issues together, it is surprising that guys will be willing to give up a day off. This should be a give and take, not a one way take. There are companies out there that actually do care about their staff and are willing to help them out; the staff are happy to return the favor.

It's not even like a person is being unprofessional or a bad guy by not being available or declining a duty during a G. Really, they gave you the G in the first place!

Given our situation here, is it really necessary to be "on-call" during a G day? Talk about free reserve.... :ugh:

[arse]

We all have different incentives! Some postive and some negative! The company certainly likes to work on the negative!

Many seem to suffer from a "I want it NOW!" syndrome and so are happy to take the short term benefit of a G day payout. That same group seems unable to see the long term benefits of standing up for the contract and greater long term gains!

That would be my "2 cents worth", but with inflation it is about a buck's worth!

[rick.shaw]

This is typical. When it comes to YOU asking to do something, the answer from crew control or scheduling is a big 'cannot'. However when it comes to them asking about something that may be in contravention of AFTL's, the pressure is on us. If nothing goes wrong, then that is that. However if something (even unrelated) goes wrong and the company digs a bit deeper and finds that the duty was perhaps not legal, then don't expect the company to come to your rescue for helping them out. They will wash their hands of you very quickly.

It is still YOUR licence that is on the line.

[NewEssO]

i imagine the only ones that are taking the G-day callouts are those commuters that are being called out to go home. is this a fair assumption?

[No-Wai]

Ditto.

3rd G-day callout for this month. CAN-NOT!

Keep up the pressure, the force is strong in us!:D

[AnAmusedReader]

Me too. I just said sorry can't help, I'm on a G Day and CC said thanks and hung up.

Those who can't say cannot should not answer the phone but why be scared?

Guaranteed Day Off after all. There's nothing they can do.

[Arfur Dent]

Exactly! There's nothing that the Company can do. The AOC requires that CX has sufficient Reserves (:{) so if they don't it's NOT YOUR PROBLEM.
If you do inadvertantly pick up the phone just politely refuse and say - 'sorry, got to go' and hang up. Easy.
Please don't work on a G day. It won't take long for trips to be cancelled. Then the Commercial Dept will ask what the hell is going on and somebody in FOPS will have to explain.
It's not Contract Compliance - it's just you going away somewhere for your time off which you're quite entitled to do.
Please give it a go.

[PanZa-Lead]

Just got called from CC to ask if I would operate a Europe flight on my G day. Said no, as usual, but I see a captain has been given the flight on his G. Oh yes he is a check captain.

[moosp]

Silber, I was witness to a similar thing in the last few days. Returning from a flight my F/O was asked to call 8929 and the duty the following day from an O day was a W pattern. It included 9 days continuous working without a G or 34 hour period off anywhere, his home base of HKG or the two ports on the W.

He politely declined, hung up, and when called back a few minutes later was re-assigned the first part of the W, which was legal but was an example of what a past Chairman of Cathay Pacific termed to me, "malicious rostering".

There are two strategies here, the army of one where you cost the company as much as you can and make a good buck yourself, or the collective way where by keeping to a sensible roster and lifestyle the pilot body may be able to effect change.

Do not be too enthusiastic about the latter, as there are always work-arounds that can be made. MPL instead of S/Os, 155 hour cpls into the right hand seat of a jet, (I know it can be done, I was one 30 years ago, but :mad: was I saved by the guy in the left hand seat a hundred times. I now know it was not a smart system.)

Another example is the CEO of an Australian regional airline that seems incapable of paying the Award or better was in Eastern Europe and Kiev recently to find pilots who would fly for a visa. True blue or mongrel black wings? You decide.

Until the CX pilot force gets a good majority of its workforce organised, the company will continue to negotiate deals on the day. Nice to get the 50,000 overtime, but it is a short term reward. Imagine how the negotiating team feel when the company say "You represent half the workforce, you are therefore powerless, so :mad: off."

That is why you see little dynamism from the AOA. They need the mandate. The best thing the AOA can do is to organise a massive recruiting drive, not along the lines of what they have done, but what they could do with, say, 90% membership.

What d'ya think??

[moosp]

PanZa what fleet if you are comfortable with the information in public?; or PM me.

[No-Wai]

Hmmm, again call me they did.
G-day it is.
CAN-NOT! my reply it was.

Powerful is the Dark Side. But much to learn about The Force they do!

:ok:

[Harbour Dweller]

They called me too AGAIN!!!

Not short of crew...Hmm, that now makes it 4 G day requests this month & it's only the 11th.

The call went straight through to the keeper... Crew Control must be sick of listening to all the dull tones of answering machines. :ok:

[slapfaan]

Due to aircraft rotation, CX402 HKG-TPE on 7th of Jan and CX465 TPE-HKG on 8th of Jan were cancelled with passengers protected to other CX flights.

Bull:mad: Philly old boy!!

Above was due to pilots NOT willing to work G-days...

Keep it up guys..the heat is on!!!:ok:

[CXtreme]

On Sunday, CX883 from Los Angeles was delayed 10 hours in Osaka as it waited for a replacement crew,


They knew the flight was going to Osaka at departure L.A. , 15 hour flight and it still have a 10 delay. More then a day to crew a flight, I think the cracks are showing. Keep up the CANNOT guys

Maybe we should name and shame those G day workers!!.:ouch:

[slapfaan]

Maybe we should name and shame those G day workers!!.

For sure!!

I've suggested this before..have a NAME AND SHAME corner for these scabs on the notice board at dispatch...(with photos) for all to see who these pricks are!!

..and then we should "hunt 'em down,smoke 'em out" and shoot the :mad:!!!:uhoh:

Drastic times call for drastic measures...:)

[SMOC]

Remember not everyone reads pprune, education is the name of the game, I've spoken to a couple of people and explained the G day call out for what it really is, and once they realised, A they were getting ripped off and B they were shafting their mates on reserve and so forth, they then agreed it was pointless to work G days. I also explained that my roster was a lot more stable not answering the phone or checking crew direct, so managed to actually plan and use my G/O days to good effect. However if the selfish ones once educated :ugh: continue screw the rest of us, name and shame away :D

[Numero Crunchero]

Please explain how disrupting your own roster, by working a G day, shafts your mates on reserve? Are you implying he has to stay on reserve, not called out? Is that a bad thing? You obviously like working more than me!


Both CX and KA have had years of CC with little to show its effectiveness. KA had a few months of high departure rates and suddenly they get near 20% payrises. CC is a great focus for poor morale but the organisational effectiveness of it is far less than people suppose. It does, however, send a loud clarion call to the world of the state of unrest in the pilot body.

So in the meantime, if you want to work a G day because you are bored and 2.5% is appealing to you, go for it. If it takes you into overtime you will have been amply rewarded for disrupting your own roster. I think that stating that someone working a G day screws you is a little bit sophistic, to be honest. We need to average almost 9 Gs a month to satisfy AFTLS and 10Gs to satisfy the RPs. If individuals carrying out CC becomes a problem CX would just need to roster the minimum Gs and make the rest of the roster duties, O days and reserve.


Flame away;-)

[SMOC]

NC I thought you were the one that explained that a G day call out is cheaper than overtime. Personally I'd rather work on reserve, have a day off on a G day , go into overtime if required, and not have a flight pulled and end up on reserve because some guy/girl worked a G day.

[555orange]

The only way you guys will get to draw a line with your company is if you all join the union and speak back to them in a collective voice. And dont complain that your union doesnt work...it doesnt work because you guys don't all join it. Its your own fault. Get yourselves all in the union and then you can start getting some respect and stop your company from malicious rostering. Who know, you may even be able to get yourselves a bidding system then. I am faced with the same problem...everyone where I am complains of a lack of power against the company...but only half the guys are in an association. You gotta have collective voice. Its the only way. Get everyone to vote on a course of action...

[slapfaan]

routetuner...

Guilty feelings eh??:confused:

If you'd like YOUR name to go up 1st on the NAME and SHAME board,just ask nicely...
And next time you comment here,try and stick to the topic..

SMOC..I've done the same,spoken to FO's and SO's on my flights and one can only hope that more guys/gals will 'see the light' and stop working on their G's...

And for goodness sake..if you really HAVE to work on your G's..check the proffering board out..plenty of flights available..handsome amounts of money to be made AND you'll be helping out a mate:ok:

NC..still waiting on the AOA to give you direction??Not while ST is there..:=

[Numero Crunchero]

SMOC,
I don't remember ever doing that. I do remember explaining that even 'credit' reserve is gimme to the company.

Slapfaan,
not holding my breath for AOA direction....new GC, new pres, new direction!


Gentlemen(and ladies), my point is this. If things are quiet and the roster is fully manned then yes, crew control may(will?) ring people on G days to get them to work in order to maintain reserve coverage. After all, better a volunteer for a flight and a press ganged one on reserve - that is better for the stability of the operarion. But to get someone to give up a G day would surely result in more reward than the mathematically incorrect amount of 2.5%. I have not and will not ever let that amount influence any decision....the amount should be at least 5% based on the simple principle of 20days work a month and 10 Gs. To reward working on the G it should be a multiple of that before working, based on G day compensation, becomes financially a good decision.

Looking at the roster we have all seen the numerous flights short of crew until hours before the flight. So we are not in the normal situation of people working G's to minimise overtime. Most people I have been flying with, on the seniorS fleet, have been in overtime. So on this fleet working on G days would probably result in overtime or in you getting something that means more to you, like days off later in the month. This makes it more likely that those on reserve are called out later in the month and hence end up in overtime!

Let us assume half the workforce are happy to work Gs. They will most likely average a higher number of hours, and overtime, in compensation for missing out on an extra 3-4 days a month of time off. In the short term they will be limited by duty hour limits and table X rest. In the medium term they will be annual hours limited and the workload will increase on the other half that carried out individual contract compliance. So on an annual basis a shortage of crew will lead us all into the flying hour and duty hour limits. If we all carried out contract compliance now that would have a more limiting, but not necessarily debilitating effect. It would mean the cancellation of occasional flights.

So full scale CC would have some effect, but half hearted (or only half the crew) CC is a waste of time.

So I think this self appointed CC vigilantism is counter productive. I think it far more useful to have the entire aircrew body carrying it out - I suggest that be done as a democratically voted path. In the meantime, please refrain from sophistic statements such as "by working G days you are screwing your mates" - prove it!

[rick.shaw]

And I would like to thank the FO who either acknowledged crew direct or answered his phone on a G day. I am now quite a few thousand dollars overtime worse off after my flight disappeared. Oh, but they don't do that, you say - yeah right!

[BlunderBus]

i think those working on G days should be honoured by having their names published so we can all show our appreciation

[CXChildLabour]

"sorry crew control, I have a very weird sickness that requires me drinking at least 1 pint of beer every 8 hours on scheduled G days"

[MidgetBoy]

About this G-day thing, I was studying for my Commercial written exam and there was some topics about duty hours and such. I don't know if it's international standards but I remember it to be 1200 hrs per year. Though most pilots don't work more than 1000, I was wondering if lets say you worked all those G-days and then you finished 1200 hours in 9 months, would you still get paid for the last 3 months? And are you paid overtime for your G-days?
Ah right, what are 'G-days' =P

[Numero Crunchero]

It seems Crew Control are very much into calling people to work on G days so that they can maintain reserve coverage - I have been given examples of this on both the 400 and bus, for CNs at least. It seems they are not quite as short of crew as I thought! Thank you to those that let me know of these 'occurrences'.

[slapfaan]

NC...

This practise is completely AGAINST our CoS..so is the AOA going to look into this and get CX to explain..or is this huge ABUSE of crew's G-days just going to get swept in under the carpet...:=

[CXtreme]

..or is this huge ABUSE of crew's G-days just going to get swept in under the carpet...

It is only if you allow it to be.

[Glass Half Empty]

What happened to g day compensation if you are back late from your pattern and you get extended into a G day. Thought it was part of COS 08 last year! Did that get lost in enforced translation beginning Jan 08?

[whodunnit2]

Here is an interesting one. Last week just before a block of reserve I get the usual "you have outstanding roster notification" message when logging onto crew direct. As is my right I decide not to look as I am on a block of G's and my reserve begins in the evening. I am not trying to be unhelpful/militant but I value my days off and don't want to hear from CX on them. Anyway on the last of my G's before the reserve starts the phone rings - 2747. The message left asks me to please call back and acknowledge the duty or to acknowledge via crewdirect!!!

I did neither and waited for my reserve to start and the phone to ring - which it did.

Since when are cc allowed to call on a G to try to make you acknowledge a future reserve duty? That smacks of desperation if you ask me.

I'll pass this on to the AOA and see if I get a response.

W2

[US Marine]

silberfuchs

get a life!

if working on G-days was such herecy, the union would call for it to stop.

and until that day, why the hell shouldnt individuals do as they please.

personally, i dont answer my phone...but that is my choice...perhaps you should have a look at my roster and check!

[BusyB]

USM,

I don't think anyone should really expect to be told what to do when the only thing that CX understands is market forces.:)