self loading freight???

[qfcabin]

I have always been just a little uncomfortable with the "self loading freight" designation that is used on here....maybe "pax",the commonly used name may not seem so patronising? After all, no pax, no commercial airlines. And I have to say, I have NEVER heard the "slf "abbreviation used except on PPrune! Any thoughts??? Or am I being just a little precious ??

[co pilot]

You're indeed.
There's no need to be politically correct all the time everywhere.
SLF therefore!

[Pax Vobiscum]

Glad to be ... SLF.

[FFPax]

"The moment the airline Customer walks in the plane, he/she becomes a passenger - or freight". Actually quite a bit earlier, after he/she has purchased the ticket. However, a general phrase at a Northern European airline...

[phd]

qfcabin - I believe you are quite correct to be uneasy about the widespread and unnecessary use of this derogatory term for our customers and therefore our ultimate paymasters. I am a manager in an airline, as well as a PPL holder and a passenger like many others. I have only been employed in the aviation sector for a few years but in that time have been constantly amazed at the appallingly poor service and plain rudeness that many passengers have to endure. The habitual use of terms such as self loading freight is indicative of a general antipathy within the sector towards excellence in customer care and towards respect for people, both passengers and staff. Even the abbreviated 'pax' sounds more like a reference to a sexually transmitted disease rather than to fellow human beings who happen to be paying our wages. Those airlines that do not genuinely respect the needs of their employees and their customers will not stand the ultimate test of time in this highly competitive service industry.service Let's drop 'slf' and how about using 'passengers', 'customers' or even 'guests' - for while these people are at our check-ins, in our lounges, or on-board our aircraft that is precisely how they should be treated by everyone involved in the air travel industry.

Call me old-fashioned if you like but good quality service sells itself - always has and always will.

[radeng]

I believe the term 'slf' was being used by Uncle Roger in 'Flight' magazine 20 or more years ago. It at least has the characteristic of being well used!

Personally, I don't mind at all being 'slf'. I do mind rudeness and poor service from the airlines, though. So I have a 'black list' of airlines that don't get my business. Additionally, all the stories about the inconvenience and yet continuing inadequacy (and in some cases, downright stupidity of those supposedly enforcing it) of airport security in the US puts me off the thought of flying there. From traffic figures, it would appear a lot of others think the same.

[WeeWillyWinky]

fishbed

Please can we stop corrupting the language further? According to my dictionary a customer is a buyer, a guest is a person entertained at anothers house or table or staying at an hotel and a passenger is a traveller in a public conveyance by land, water or air.

Pax is a perfectly acceptable abbreviation of passenger(s) and SLF is mainly used as an affectionate nickname. I work for BA and am almost universally known in and out of the company as a Nigel. So what? It is the context in which it is used that is important. If that is all I have to worry about then I will be a happy man.

Political correctness in all its forms is an abhorrence in my humble opinion.

Edited for spilling.

[ 06 November 2001: Message edited by: Acid_Regulator ]

[Septimus Pyecroft]

The term 'Self loading freight' in my opinion is actually quite humorous when applied with good intention but there have been in the past a number of people who use it in it's most derogatory form, (should we as passengers refer to pilots as 'Taxi drivers in the air'). So I suppose it swings both ways and would encourage people to look at it's application in context. A friend of mine is a commercial pilot and uses this term with great humour, yet is respectful of the fact that many people are his 'bread and butter'so with this in mind,evaluate accordingly! :p

[flypastpastfast]

Sometimes I have thought SLF to be derogatory, but then I remember this is a Professional pilots website. Like many industries, staff have nicknames for customers, so it is no surprise to find it in the aviation industry, which is second only to the world of computing for the adoption of acronyms and non standard descriptions.


As has been rightly pointed out, it is only a problems when some airline staff take it (stupidly) literally. Fortunately most airline staff are wise to the fact that their job depends on 'SLF' or 'paying customers' in the real world.

The term Self loading freight is actually marginally humorous when you think about it.

[b.w.k]

I thought this was a humorous thread until it was hi-jacked by the pious!

I first heard the term SLF to describe Army Parachutists being carried on RAF C130s. RAF personnel were passengers, army personnel were SLF. That was nearly 30 years ago.

Too much political correctness around for my liking, but I too have a black list for lack of good service, Air Frog at the top, closely followed by BMI, and I wasn’t even called a piece of Self Loading Freight. But what do I know I think ANA, BA and VIR are great
:D :D :D :D

[Flap 5]

Someone is being very sensitive here. As pilots we are often referred to as 'glorified chauffeurs'. So the glorified chauffeurs get the self loading freight from A to B (where ever they are). Nothing wrong with that, except we are not glorified any more. :rolleyes:

[tonyt]

as my old grandad said to the rude checkout girl in Tesco - 'Let's focus dearie, me profit - you overhead'
would have thought slf was fairly affectionate term compared to some I've heard!

[Gaza]

As pilots we are often referred to as 'glorified chauffeurs'. or as the man that some on this forum love to hate would say - System Analysts or Button Pushers ;)

As SLF I don't find the term derogatory in the slightest. As others said it is only becomes unacceptable if Airline staff interpret it literally and treat the customer as though they were a lump freight. I find the term quite amusing. When I first mentioned it to my wife, who also travels by air a lot, she burst out laughing!

Another gem on this board that have made us laugh was the "Cleared to pushback after Nigels' minibus" comment made by a bmi button pusher, sorry :D , Pilot.

Less political correctness please. Lets get rid of some PC'isms such Flight Attendants and get the old Steward/stewardess terms back in. :D

[ 06 November 2001: Message edited by: Gaza ]

[Self Loading Freight]

Can't stand the phrase myself...

R

[Arkroyal]

Jees

All around us people are losing their jobs, companies going bust, bombs falling....

And you are worried about thw niceties of what we call the pax!!! :rolleyes:

[poetpilot]

Look, as long as we are all derogatory to the same level and maybe there is a banner we could put up somewhere (as in "health warning - do not expect to find political correctness here"), we can all get on and talk about the stuff that matters.

PC wrecks every aspect of our lives and has, arguably even cost lives in some situations where it has stifled sensible (re)action.

I know we could be accused of creating our own little world with jargon and slang, but for goodness sake..... what a dull, boring world it will be when we can only use Webster's Politically Correct Dictionary Spell Checker.

So, let's even the field up a bit if it makes people feel better....

why not refer to:

pilots as "PAXi drivers"
Airline Execs "PAXidermists"
small charter a/c pilots "SixPAX"
1st Class "Value Added PAX"

I'm sure you agile and non-PC minds out there can come up with more. After all, none of us do any real work do we?

[Justin Abeaver]

Well said, Arkroyal!


Beavering about

[Xenia]

My vote also goes to Arkroyal!
And BTW.... always proud of being the "Chief Wagon Dragon" :D :D :D

[phd]

Sad to say many of the responses to my comments above about the condescending use of the term 'slf' are oh so predictable. It is a shame that respect for others and care over the words that we use to describe others is seen nowadays as political correctness - not so long ago it was seen as common decency. The words we use and the sentiments they convey to others about "customers" are vitally important in any service based industry, and that is what we are - a service provider to our passengers. If we in the airline industry are to help ourselves out of the current mess then passenger satisfaction, passenger loyalty and perception of the airline's attitude towards its passengers are going to be vital. When you think about it the term slf is about as amusing as the terms paddy, paki, or frog. Funny if you are the speaker and not the spoken to. The term is unhelpful, unprofessional and inaccurate - call me a prude and a killjoy if you will but consider for a moment what the majority of our passengers would really think about us if they actually knew we referred to them as self-loading freight? Thankfully most of them do not know and I hope they never find out.

-----------------------------------------
That's torn it!

[Out Of Trim]

Hello fishbed AKA Oldfashioned / prude / killjoy - SLF is not really a derogatory term for pax - although on some flights it probably could be fully justified - Ibiza flights spring to mind - Hey chill out, and accept that all industries have nicknames for their "customers" and mostly the term is used "affectionately" in a humourous way.
Get a life! ;) :) :eek: :eek: :)

[FFPax]

Well said Fishbed. Guess what..

I'm a passenger, whom doesn't like that attitude you are referring to. And the good part is - I'm also a journalist! I really am. And "slf" and its meaning is a good story, which I'm going to share with a lot of collegues at first!

Also, I have followed the Delta thread (and responded to that) - and some of those comments there are as interesting, too. I think those will also interest the Delta execs...

Maybe I won't. But the pilots should be aware that this is a public forum.

[phd]

I am getting off my hobby-horse now to go and get a life - but I'll be back!

-----------------------------------------
That's torn it!

[ft]

I have to agree. It is time something is done about the term SLF!

The word should be cargo rather than freight.

;)

Cheers,
/ft

[radeng]

I don't mind the guy up front being a 'button pusher', 'taxi driver' or 'bus driver' while everything goes well. When something goes wrong and I'm the slf sitting down the back, that's when I want those seats occupied by 'pilots' who are good at airmanship. Never been let down yet - frankly, don't ever expect to be either.

[New Bloke]

Some years ago British Rail stopped calling their passengers “passengers” and started calling them “Customers.”

Did it do any good?

Did the service improve?

Were they less surly?

Were any less trains delayed or cancelled?

The answer to all of the above I’m afraid is NO

The trains were still dirty and late, they still crash, you still get Yobs on them causing fights. Only now the announcer says “we regret to inform CUSTOMERS that the 17:23 to Croydon has been delayed until approximately 18:22”

Merely changing the way that customers are addresses is akin to re-arranging deckchairs on the Titanic.

SLF is a humorous title given by SOME staff to some passengers, if at the end of any flight the only thing you have to complain about is how you were referred too…….


Get a life!

[sirwa69]

Nothing wrong with SLF (check my profile)
While were at it do any other FA's refer to the right hand seat as Ballast or is it just Gulf Air? :D :D :D

[gravity victim]

For the canny passenger there is a great and little-used alternative to being self-loading - the wheelchair service! At STN, for a mere £12.50 you sit comfortably while being pushed to the head of the checkout queue (plus anyone travelling with you), are taken to any shops you feel like visiting, ditto spacious loo, and get loaded onto a front seat on Ryanair's finest.

All this is done in reverse at the other end.

And as nobody actually asks if you are disabled (silly question, presumably ) - it is not even necessary to tell a porky to avail oneself of this excellent service!
;)

[Hunter58]

Fishbed

oh, god, are you passenger people tricky! Since when is a passenger bringing money to an airline, especially in Y-Class? They ARE self loading freight, and I am sooooo happy that MY freight is not of the self loading type. THAT is a business, but not that strange stuff where you have to assigns seats to the cargo you take on board...

Remember, for the aircraft a 100 kg is a 100 kg, be it SLF or real freight. AND IT SHOULD ALSO PAY THE SAME!!!!! But no, then these whinies of pax sales guys stuff the airplane with unnecessary stuff like personal video screens and finaly you kick the cargo out! Because it cannot complain. Well, I think we should have the passenger guys handle the forwarder's complaints in future, that would make PPRuNe the most political correct message board in the world! You would then whish to be the one handling passenger complaints. :)

In all seriousnes now: you really are not in the business since long...! Visibly!

[PAXboy]

I am always happy to be 'pax'. It is far easier than the three syllable word for which it substitutes.

When I first learnt of 'slf' I thought it very funny and still do, I think of it in the same breath as referring to an experienced pilot merely as a 'driver'.

My thanks to qfcabin for concern in this but agree with most of the above by saying, it is the service on the phone, at the check-in, at the cabin door, at the seat by which I judge.

In my spare time, I am involved in charity work with recently bereaved people (not religious/church orientated) and we do have some words for them .... it is a way to off set the difficulties that we encounter. Just as it does the folk in the cabin!

[Guvnor]

"SLF" is like "Get a life" - so commonplace and overused here that they have lost any meaning, let alone derogatory ones....

[Arkroyal]

There was an article in a Sunday paper last year in which the journo compared airlines and awarded points for various aspects of the service, etc.

She marked Easyjet down significantly because, as she ascended the steps, she heard the Captain over the PA:

'Enemy Approaching!' :D

[MaximumPete]

One of our more out-going captains was heard to remark on the PA as a busload of customers approached:-

"Hats on, t*ts out, bottoms in, hear they come"

Unfortunately it was the second busload!

Bemused MP ;)

[HugMonster]

fishbed, in conversation with you has anyone ever used the word "pompous"? ;)

I refer to the passengers as "SLF" or "Pax". If you think that affects my view of them, or the fact that they pay my wages, then you really should grow up, or get out more.

I do my damnedest to give them as good a service as I can, to make the trip enjoyable, to have them want to come back for more next time, nor would I ever tolerate anyone giving them anything but the best service possible.

If you think that PC terms affect anything, then you lack any imagination at all. Come to think of it, didn't I work for you once? :D

The term "customer" is a PC juvenile idiocy that I HATE. You hear announcements on rail stations (when you can decipher them) saying "Customers for Cheltenham should change at Swindon..." YUCK!

The term "passenger" implies passage - maybe why the railways don't like it. The term "customer" merely implies someone who has given us money, and no passage is implied in the term at all.

If you want to wage war on bad service, on rude staff, then do so - and with my blessing and, I suspect, that of everyone here.

But you'll achieve nothing by the adoption of trendy, PC doubleplusgood newspeak and outlawing thought crime.

Use your powder against the real enemy, and stop being a pillock.

[ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: HugMonster ]

[Axerock]

Hugmonster

Perhaps the origin of the word Customer should be reviewed. I believe it originates from the US South and was derived from the phrase "Cuss to me". Usage was "They all CUSS TO ME about the crap service and what can I do about it - I only work here."

...or maybe I just dreamt it.

[MaximumPete]

Hugmonster

You've made an awful lot of posts.

Are you trying to catch up with THE Guvnor?

MP ;)

[SLF]

...and proud of it! It was one of the things that attracted me to PPRuNe in the first place.

[flapsforty]

sirwa69 while we do not refer to the co-pilot as "ballast" as yet, I'm sure it will find fertile ground if I introduce it to my colleagues! :D

We do however make sure to pester all young second officers with the following old joke:
What*s the difference between a 2nd officer and a duck?
A duck can fly. ;)

A very well known skin care line, ph-neutral and soothing goes by the name Sanex in my home country.
What's the difference between Sanex and a CSD?
Sanex doesn't irritate. ;)

Come on fishbed, SLF is a term of endearment. :)

[malanda]

Maybe I'm just a bit slow, but what is a "Nigel"?

[divingduck]

I'm SLF and damn proud of it!!

PC has just about run it's course and it's time for the pendulum to swing back the other way! :mad:

Still SLF is better than being referred to as the captains "sexual adviser" as I heard a grizzled 4 bar call a callow second officer one day.
Everyone has their nicknames for the people they work with or against...there is no problem so long as they don't hear what you call them! :eek:

[Epsom Hold 2]

Some contributors seem to even consider 'pax' to be derogatory. In that case, is 'wx' insulting to gods and/or meterologists?

Nothing wrong with 'SLF' btw. It's pretty funny when you think about it. I hate 'guests', ugh, too prissy. I was watching 'Airport' the other night and Canadian had a 'conciege' (pur-lease) called Kelvin who was just so OTT, I bet he referred to 'guests'. There was an SLFpax with a ticket problem (or something) and he went onto the aircraft and knelt down next to the seat, the whole pose was obviously studied, his head lower than that of the (seated) SLFpax etc. If I had been the SLFpax I would have been filled with disgust, when I'm SLFpax I want to deal with someone I can respect, ie an equal, that way I can expect them to fix the problem. Some kissarse weirdo kneeling down next to me and calling me a 'guest' and touching my arm doesn't inspire confidence or respect.

I don't want to be a bloody 'guest', when it comes to being blasted into the outer atmosphere at the speed of a bullet in a small tin can, we're all in this together so treat me like an adult (albeit a self-loading one!) and behave like one yourself.

[BRUpax]

I love the term SLF. It's all in fun for goodness sake. As for "pax", I always regarded this as an official airline abbreviation and in no way disrespectful. I'm getting sick of all this "PC" stuff. It's time the human race got it's sense of humour back. We're going to need it!

[ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: BRUpax ]

[tony draper]

Why not call us Units, there is a historical precident. ;)
Anyway its time somebody told you lot, PAX is already taken, its been in use in the telecomunication industry for years, it means, Private Automatic Exchange, get your own abrieviations. ;)

[ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

[go with the flow]

No prob with SLF here either.

Now about space waitress, trolley dolly etc...
:D

[brain fade]

I prefer 'punters', but who cares what we call 'em? as long as it's not to their faces i dont see how it matters a jot. what does matter is they get on at all!
'prepare to repel boarders!'

[paxman]

I've never objected to pax...

[Xenia]

Flapsforty... I leave you the pleasure matey...
You go on and slap the Fokker :D :D :D

[ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: Xenia ]

[flapsforty]

Xen, true story from when Air Littoral was part KLM & flew on AMS regularly.

from KLM 747 in rasping Dutch accent: Tower pls ask that Air Littoral Fokker to get out of our way; we're in a hurry.

from Air Littoral Fokker in sexy french accent: Tower pls explain to KLM why the only good Fokker is a sloooooooooow Fokker. :D

[Dockjock]

Guest? Absolutely repellent
Customer? Ridiculous, but not too far out
Passenger? Yes
PAX? Yes
SLF? Yes

malanda, Nigel is the endearing term by which British Airways pilots are known the world over.

[Hunter58]

And the term SLF must stay, otherwise all the network palnner have a serious problem. And then, there are no customers = passengers = self loading freight left to fill the planes, so we cant let that happen, as the main principle in ntwork planning is:

SLF = (X*SLF)/SC whereas X*SLF = PAX!

Puzzeled? You're definietly no network planner then!

Here's the solution:

Seat Load Factor = Number of Self Loading Freight Divided by Seat Capacity whereas Number of Self Loading freight = passengers!

And we don't want to ruin the oh so beautiful symetry of the equation, do we?

[MaximumPete]

malanda,

I guy called Figment draws a lot of very amusing cartoons, popularising "Nigels" and we must not forget the "Debbies".

The terms were started years ago by the cabin crew when we had BOAC and BEA and the flight-deck stopped in different hotels, heaven forbid.

MP :p

[Simon Miller]

SLF- just a bit of fun,no harm done. I don't mind being a bus/taxi driver of the automated style (see my name)
At my last company rhyming slang was used and punters became Hillman Hunters.The girls and boys with the food were called trolley dollies and they called us Merchant Bankers, don't understand that one myself but what ever!!!


Down with PC language (I hate these computer things anyway) :confused:

:D :D :D

[GeofJ]

Call me SLF, pax, whatever, just give me a seat with 36" pitch, my own armrest and an on time departure. If you are concerned PC speak then my vote is to not call the cr@p on the plate on my tray table "food"! :D

[25F]

In the IT world we talk about "lusers" [sic].
By comparison, the "SLF" moniker for customers is positively respectful, implying that pax can actually get on to the aeroplane under their own steam. Lusers, on the other hand, can't understand why their computer isn't functioning during a power cut...

I hope the "25F" handle makes it clear whereabouts on the aircraft I'm to be found...

[AA SLF]

SLF - I am, have been, will be. Always a pax but on some days I am just a tired ole fart who wants to get home - on time.

Do like "trolly dolly" though. :D

"Thank You" and "Please", the three best words in our language.

I have the greatest respect for all who take care me. From the lav dumper to the left seat, and all in between.

FLY SAFE . . . at the end of the day you DO want to be there.

dAAvid -

[gadgetman]

The term 'Self Loading Freight' is positively respectful compared to many industries terms for their customers/passengers/etc...
The ambulance service has some pretty horrendous ones eg: FUBAR BUNDY. F***ed Up Beyond All Recognition But Unfortunately not Dead Yet.
I've heard a chef routinely refer to his diners/customers etc... as 'Pirahnas'
A gym instructor who calls her customers/instructees her 'slaves'
Every so often, some bright spark MBA, some distance removed from actually dealing with the public comes up with a brand new name for their customers, optimistically thinking it won't get corrupted into some term of abuse. This artificial language control is gerally short lived.
The Police in a certain Antipodean Isle were encouraged to call people they dealt with 'clients'. Didn't work for some reason.

[Final 3 Greens]

SLF will do nicely, so long as the canapes and Kir Royale keeps coming in the direction of 6A!