Nakheel Aviation - Dubai

[Aslak]

Anyone got any info on Nakheel Aviation?
Looks like they are operating at least Legacy, GEX and Lear 60...

[FLEXJET]

Started operations during spring 2006.

They also operate a G-IV.

Legacys are A6-NKL and A6-DPW

Global is a 5000.

Very interesting radio interview with Managing Director Horm Irani here :
http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidDE070605071409703431

[chinny]

:confused:.....and you get your info from...where?:sad:

VTSP
chinny

[Itswindyout]

Don't open mouth, unless able to quantify.
windy.

[approachchecks]

Not sure where FLYVIP received his info but I heard and can confirm the same. WHERE THERE IS SMOKE THERE IS FIRE.

I sent in a CV and spoke to the training manager. Just after speaking to the training manager, I decided not to pursue a career with them. He seemed very dispondent and sounded like he had not much enthusiasm in the company. Scary as he is the training manager.

Its a pity as the aircraft they have are nice and if managed properly it could be a great company to work for. Especially with the financial backing they have.

After researching the company and management I later found out that this training manager and the MD both used to work for Execujet. I do wonder what the story is there.

Bet you can eat your words now WINDY (itswindyout)

[FLEXJET]

approachecks, it's very difficult to believe you as you seem to have registered to post about Nakheel.
You could also be FlyVIP...

[approachchecks]

OK then what else do you want to know? To be honest. its been such a long time since I have been on here that using my old username, it would not allow me to reply.
I feel there is so much moaning on here. But wanted to reply as have been there and done it and FLYVIP is not wrong. Maybe the truth hurts? You tell me?:=

[chinny]

Indeed they did both work for ejme and there is a story there which does not involve you or this forum-nothing dodgy i might just add.
There is no bad press out on the market about Nakeel aviation-they are expanding and they will get bigger-the only thing i would say is their pay package is not exactly at market rates for the rest of the world but is "reasonable" for out this part of the world.

"Its a pity as the aircraft they have are nice and if managed properly it could be a great company to work for. Especially with the financial backing they have. ''
This can be said for any Company out in the ME.

VTSP
chinny

[approachchecks]

I think you are right there Chinny (regarding salaries) but I think a huge factor in salaries/contracts in Dubai is the continously rising cost of renting accommodation.(except Emirates for obvious reasons):ugh:

If I remember correctly Nakheel was offering AED120 000 (£16100.00) per year for housing allowance. If you have a family and require a 3 bedroom house, I challenge you to go look in the papers or the internet for suitable housing. I will be amazed if you find anything available. Unless you are willing to go live in Abu Dhabi or Sharjai. Not great for any "AD HOC" charters though.

I think that if they kept their allowance in proportion to the cost of renting then maybe there would be more crew keen to make the move to Dubai. I am sure unless this happens then anybody who has done abit of homework, will see that there are better places to go and that it is not worth the energy making the move to Dubai. Until that happens, I am staying away.:ok:

I know a crew member(corporate captain) who moved to Dubai to continue his career until he retired. At the moment he is dipping into his savings to make ends meet. His salary does not cover his overheads and I can assure you that he does not lead any extravagent lifestyle. He has a family of 4.
The rent is what is doing most of the damage.

Well I am sure there are more people, in Dubai, that fly in the corporate market and if they are honest they would agree on this.

Lets see?

AC

[approachchecks]

One other thing regarding the ex member from EJME that I spoke with.

As a training manager, you would not expect him to be bad mouthing the company or crew that he works with. Very unprofessional?:=Especially to potentially new crew.
If the training manager feels like that then obviously there must be some sort of problem there. Who knows? Could be a touchy subject.:hmm:

AC

[TRITAR500]

Do you have contact for Nakheel aviation, thanks

[Magic123]

I would really like to know where you guys get your info from, have any of you spoken to anyone that works at Nakheel? If not, don't make comments on anthing that is not fact based!

[approachchecks]

Magic123,:ugh:

Hear me now.

I do not write on here often, but let me tell you something, when I do, I only tell whats true.

Not only have I applied and spoken to the people concerned, I have info from the horses mouth. If you want to give it a go, then go ahead, but I can assure you that 2 months down the line you will regret it just like the others have.

Lets wait and see. I dare you

[Magic123]

Approachchecks,

I was not implying that you were lying, what I ment was, for example, "I spoke to a Captain at Nakheel, or I spoke to the Director of Operations" ect.

You can expect teething problems with any new company, seeing that the Aviation part of Nakheel only started up in 2006, any expanding company is not the easiest to manage, don't always blame management for personal problems. Management has to look after the company as well as their personnel, if the company does not make the grade, there will be no jobs, and no jobs mean no salaries.

If you want to fly for a proper salary, you must have the qualifications, the hours, ect, as well as the personality for the job. Why do you think any company has a interview process? You must also be willing to start at the bottom if it is req and work your way up.

Corporate flying is also very unpredictable, so if you want a stable job with a roster for the month, then join an airline. There are lots of airlines in the world that pay very well, more spesific the far east airlines.

Don't ever think that companies do not check out this website, bad mouthing companies can be very damaging to your flying carreer, aviation is a very small world.

Lastly, flying should first and foremost be fun, it's our passion. Companies and salaries should not be the first consideration when applying for jobs, but the fun behind what we will be flying, even if it is a Cessna 150.

The correct company and salary will come along sooner or later.

[chinny]

magic-not sure where you been hiding, but in this day and age there are very few of us left that enjoy flying and those that do soon get hacked off with the Companies out there.

yes one day that wonder job will come along but until then the majority of pilots-i would say-are in it for the quality of life and money ...then the job.that is certainly my experience and esp in the sand pits-here enthusiasm and initative are soon beaten out of you(regardles of what u think or how you work).that is what you get here.one or the other-not both....for the time being anyway.

Things will change and sooner rather than later-Nakheel will be part of that.

VTSP
chinny

[approachchecks]

Well for those replying to these threads and saying Nakheel is not bad and asking where people get there information from, I have been informed that the MD resigned.:D About time.

So now surely this must say something? For those of you saying its not bad, well I guess you were wrong.
We did some research and also found out this MD is partnership in another business.... aircraft sales so I wonder which company some of their aircraft was bought through??? Makes you think doesn't it.:hmm::hmm::hmm:

[AMF]

Lastly, flying should first and foremost be fun, it's our passion. Companies and salaries should not be the first consideration when applying for jobs, but the fun behind what we will be flying, even if it is a Cessna 150.

If I were running an aviation company the last pilots I'd trust or want to hire would be those happily willing to work for peanuts and say it's raining when I pi$$ed on 'em.

[AMF]

worldtraveler....the bit about companies checking these forums and it affecting people futures is particularly good.

A good company is unaffected by rumormongering from outsiders, and it's own employees will stand up for it.

I've always believed that if you're accepting a paycheck from an employer, good or bad, you should keep your whinging "in school" until you leave. After that, anything's fair game.

If a company dismissed a current employee found bad-mouthing the company to the public that's understandable.

A company concerned about outsiders who are doing it is pathetic.

[tempilot]

Nakheel advertised for pilots recently. Has anyone had the courtesy of a reply? I applied, met all their requirements, and even had a valid and current UAE ATPL, endorsed with one of their types, but still no reply.
Tempilot

[farmer jo]

No reply either, I am current on two of the types they operate and could have been avaiable 1st September, but not even a reply to say they received the application !! Maybe there are so many type rated and current GLEX pilots around they don't need us !

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Is a typical UAE aviation rate at the present.

It does not buy much in Dubai, but should we expect the sum to pay all out housing costs, or should we call it what they call it and as "allowance" towards housing.

Outside Dubai ( North) the cost of a 3 bed rented villa is less than 100,000 Aed, per annum, this often includes pool etc, etc.

glf

[approachchecks]

Apparently since their MD resigned (:D) there has been a new guy that has come in to sort the company out. I have heard a few things that has gone on since he left. Probably the worst thing is that this MD might not be leaving after all. That could be the worst news for the employees. I do think this new guy could turn things around. The previous MD probably had no interest in the crews well being hence the unhappy crew.

Read 2 replies to this link about not hearing from them after sending cv's etc. To be honest it does not surprise me one bit. Their training manager is useless and spoke to him myself on the phone. :ugh:
Maybe he should go with the MD. Again maybe thats why they are ex EJ employees.
Now I can see why.

[chinny]

and you would be raising the same points again-why?:hmm:
Is there perhaps more to this than you are letting on-did they turn you down before you spoke to them......just seems strange that you raise the same points as the start of this thread, that has since moved forward!!!!:confused::confused:
VTSP
chinny

[kingoftheslipstream]

Apply to GF or EY, we hear that they have the best pay packages in the Gulf Region these days... :ouch:

[m-e.flyer]

approachchecks,

The info you give out strongly suggests you work in the company. Why be unhappy and drag it through the dirt, including specific people. If you dont like it, why not move elsewhere? It would benefit everyone involved. I dont mean any disrespect, just some companies work for certain people and some don t . Maybe airline environment would suit you better. Maybe worth a try :)

In the meanwhile happy flying and I think you could be a lot worse off than being with Nakheel.

[approachchecks]

Trust me, if I was offered the plane at the end of the job, I would not be working there. I just reply to this thread with what I have heard via Nakheel when I was in touch with them and other information from people at airports to where they have flown. EG handling agents etc.

An airline is not for me either. I have been in the corporate sector my whole career and love it. I just feel sorry for the guys who love their job but dont enjoy it due to their employer, thats all my friend. It is just unfortunate that Nakheel falls into one of those categories.

Thanks for the advice anyway but I would never leave my current employer, we are looked after far to well.:) I am very grateful that I did not accept employment with them.

Happy Landings.;)

[JoeCo]

soooo, approachchecks, if you are so happy with your current employer that you would not resign

"but I would never leave my current employer, we are looked after far to well"

then why would you apply in the first place?
I'm all for a persons perspective on a company, good or bad, but you raise all this sh1t about a company, apply, get pissed off with their 'ways' and then simply claim that you are way too happy where you are. I dont get it. Maybe you dont fly enough and are bored? I dont know, but your tactics do seem odd to me.

What if the company was perfect and they did offer you the job, would you have still turned then down?? Gives me the impression you are trying to waste peoples time.

I'm all for keeping an eye open on the market and on the job boards, but I'd never apply unless I truly intended on leaving my current employer.

[approachchecks]

If it's keeping you awake at night and you really want know, a fellow pilot sent them a CV. Once in touch with them he said he knew of 2 crew that might be interested. He was one and I was the other.
Just because you on diet, it does not mean you cant look at the menu.:=

Where is the harm in seeing what they have to offer, who knows it could have been better than I currently have. Unfortunately it wasn't better and have since met and spoken to people who have told me alot about what has been happening there.
I am just giving out all info so people dont make a mistake when taking on employment by Nakheel.

If this is such a bad thing, then why does anyone write on this forum.

Sleep tight.;)

[JoeCo]

Hell man, I'm always looking at the menu!!

I got caught out once. Thought I was employed 'forever' but got laid off and I wasnt prepared for it. Had no idea what was out there and was basically standing there, flight bag in hand and no where to go. So I'm all for keeping an eye on the market/industry. Hell, with this industry, it should be a requirement to be taught that in flight school!

Thing is that I thought good things were happening at Nakeel. It is somewhat surprising to hear otherwise. However, as it does seem to be so typical of the Middle East, good companies are hard to find. Things always seem to look rosey from the outside, until your in for long enough to realize what the inside looks like?!!?

Its good to see new companies coming into the market, but with this current trend and like Chinny said, in this region its a garranty that the moral and ambition will eventually get beaten out of you.

Anyhow, for those who do apply, good luck. I hope approachchecks is wrong about the future of Nakheel Aviation.

[approachchecks]

Thanks for the reply.

To be honest, I hope I am wrong about Nakheel. But from my experience when I was in touch with them as well as the info I received from fellow colleague who applied, it is not good on the inside. My colleague was given some dodgy info from their training manager, as stated in some earlier replies. Makes me wonder :ugh:

Maybe things will change now the MD has gone and the company might realise how important crew are. If you have a great team then maybe they should look after them as they will probably bend over backwards to help out when in trouble. I know this from my current company. I would go out of my way to help out operations etc. I should though as they look after us.

At the end of the day it might be a great company to work for but think not for the moment.
I wish some Nakheel crew would reply to some of these remarks. Not sure if any have but by looking at some of the replies, maybe not.

Come on guys give us some inside truths about this company?

[lowy4sure]

The Md was ex Execujet MD
then Aircharter broker company employee in Jebel Ali
then sold a 1983 Citation III to guy in Dubai that was $400,000 over priced. The aircrafrt was t return to Dubai and go straight into charter but the guy was fired from his aircharter employer and the poor owner had no home for the aircraft to go

He then got the contract for Nahkeel " under a new company he started" How do I know, I bid of the contract

Nahkeel then asked him to get them their own AOC
he did not pocess the ability to do this so he subcontracted a stand up guy to do it for $90,000. After the AOC was finished, he then paid the stand uo guy onl $45,000 for his own check account ????? not from Nahkeel??????? I told Nahkeel that this guy would sooner or later !!!! in his own nest with them and two years later he is leaving.

Nahkeel got rid of a bad apple!!!!!!!!!!!!and maybe have a few more to go. Remember the Arab way is to sorround yourself with people so no one can get to you you can bet that apple employed some people that present a mirror image of himself.

Bottom line also with salaries, they came from the the ones orignial set up by that MD and the owners are just following suit.

I lived in the sand box Saudi ) for 10 years and assure you that the UAE people think Dubai is a fantastic place to live. I was making big money in Sauid and had everything supplied. Most guys there now are all on rotating rosters because the Saudis know 150% NO ONE WANTS TO COME THERE. The UAE people are starting to be shocked form Emirates to the Royal flight and charter cmpanies that people outside of the Gulf will only come on a rostered time off bases. I saw it ion Saudi and it will happen here. The local currency tied to the USD is also killing the salaries offered and no one form Europe can afford to work here anymore.

The area is booming for sure but like we said in Saudi, if you going to live in this hell hole, at leats get big bucks.............. UAE people don't know this yet. When their aircraft are sitting on the ground, the penny will drop

Re Nahkeel, that got rid of a bad egg!!!!!!!!!! at the end of the day they seriously shiy money and will grow!!!!!! lets hope the new staff find it very difficult to get drivers and their rate of pay goes up to at least Saudi standards. A GEX driver in Saudi is on $15,000 / month ++++ and I have friends on a F 900 on $12,000 / month ++++ and on 3 weeks on 3 weeks off. It took the owner 3 years and loosing 11 pilot to realise this rate of pay and time off secures the crew will never leave.

This my first time on PPRUNE, it is interesting

[approachchecks]

:D Eventually someone has replied that also has some information on the idiots that were and some that still are employed by Nakheel.
I knew crew that after hearing their wages/contracts etc ran for miles. Some even offered no housing allowance! What company does that?:ugh:

They really need to sort out the contracts so that they fall in line with the industries or with the increasing house prices in the UAE.

You right why live in a !!!! hole unless you earn big bucks. They do not fly often so wonder what there crew are thinking?:ugh:is what I suspect.

Maybe the MD left as he had lined his pockets enough. It amazes me about the info you mentioned on the CJ. Absolutely typical isn't it.:=

[m-e.flyer]

Strangely enough, as far as I am aware, a fair few of the crew with Nakheel did have rotation in previous jobs, but opted to have a life, with more quality, being based in an open minded city in the Middle East, including a lifestyle they could never afford in Europe (besides the admittedly higher salaries there). Including maids, a good nightlife and affordable transport home. Great medical cover and compared to most companies, a decent housing allowance paid up front by the company.

I m not sure how you can compare Saudi and Dubai but that s a personal choice. Yes, with the dollar rate at the mo, anyone with commitments in Europe will lose out. But there is plenty of other people.

Coming back to the subject of Nakheel, if it was so bad, why arent more crew leaving? I m not aware of a high turn over at their end. I m also not aware of them not being able to find staff. as you may know from experience they have come to a point of turning people down. They may take time for recruitment and run short for a while, but maybe that s to ensure they recruit the right people. The ones who enjoy Dubai, and appreciate the work environment. Yes, having a family in Dubai is expensive, but this doesnt just apply to Nakheel, the rent problem applies to everyone here.

In general I find it strange, how on this website people drag whole companies through the dirt that may not deserve it. you may want to take revenge on one particular person but you are harming anyone employed, people who are working hard and trying their best.
You point fingers without knowing the whole story. Is it because of rejection? Or too much time on your hands? Why are you all so involved in a company none of you supposedly works for?

As far as I m concerned anyone should make up their own mind. Contact them if you are interested and get a feel for the company. An interview is for an opportunity for both parties, not just the employer to assess if the position would be right for them. Make up your own mind and you may be surprised.

I know the grass is always greener on the other side, and as mentioned there are a lot worse jobs out there.

GH it is surprising your resume is on the IWA desk after the emotions you expressed, the MD maybe leaving but your comments affected anyone employed.It is all about fitting into the team and people that are honest. No company would like to employ staff that take their issues into public or backstab. Makes one wonder

Happy flying everyone, life could be a lot worse :)

[approachchecks]

Just to say something about some of your comments.

Maybe more crew are not leaving as they could be contracted and cannot leave. That might be the reason.

I am not sure who you work for but maybe if you let everyone know then maybe they could apply if you are so happy there.

I know a good few people who live and work in Dubai and i know for a fact that they cannot afford maids etc on their salary, so I think its not fare to assume that all crew are on these great, not to be missed salaries.
The days of earning and saving alot of money in Dubai are long gone and as Lowy4sure mentioned maybe it will take companies along time to see crew come and go and for owners not to see the same faces in the front, year in and year out before they need to up the contracts to meet the increasing costs in Dubai and to keep crew. I would like to know how anyone can afford to pay their rent if it increases 7% every year but their housing allowances stay the same. At some point it will cost them money to live in Dubai. Villa's for a family of 4 will cost anywhere over AED170.000 a year and if your only getting AED120,000 in a housing allowance..........do the maths yourself.

Maybe you might be willing to live in a 1 or 2 bedroom apartment with your family, kids all being on top of each other in a room, then please be my guest but when I move to a new job or country to work you must have the same living conditions or better. If not you are moving backwards and I am sure you yourself would not be happy to do that. If you dont have kids, not married and are single then great but not everyone falls into this category.
I think they should sort themselves out before things will be better. There is no lack of funds behind this company.

Happy landings guys:)

[Catar]

Can anyone of you confirm that the MD you are all refering to is Horm Irani :confused:

[globalchild]

confirmed..

[Itswindyout]

attitude is the problem.

the entire uae is motivated now by getting maximum labour for minimum bucks.

the building industry is facing problems as salaries back in India are getting better, adverts in UAE newspapers for skilled indians inviting them back home.

aviation professionals are a world wide commodity, and their salaries and working conditions are known by all in the industry, via the services of PPrune, and others.

if a company in Austria is offering 15k$ on a 2 on 1 off contract, would a qualified person apply for 8k$, 11 on and perhaps 1 off in ME. perhaps not.

one company in my present emirate told the new hire pilot, not to discuss his salary package with the other pilots.......why..........because even with his typerating, and many hundereds of hours on type he is on almost 1/2 the salary of the other guys.
why.....is sin is to be asian, and not european.................just how long before the question of package arises.............?

Nahkeel is not alone, but I do suspect that the senior management all went to the same business school.

windy

[JoeCo]

"Nahkeel is not alone, but I do suspect that the senior management all went to the same business school."

I'm sorry to tar every manager with the same brush, however in my experience dont ALLL upper managers go to that same school?!?!?!

They seem to have this ability to make themselves believe that !!!! smells like roses and think they have the 'skill' to sell that same rose scented !!!! to the employees. And when the employees dont buy-it, they cant figure out why?!?!

I'm not targetting Nahkeel and I know there are some 'good apples' out there, however those good apples soon spoil due to association with the bad apples. Unfortunately this appears to be the situation regarding, in my opinion, the entire upper management in Middle East aviation.

....I still cant figure it out?!?!

[usedtoworkfornje]

Story doing the rounds that NAkheel is merging with another two local operations..

Any info ?

Cheers

[approachchecks]

I tell you something, I cannot believe that I bumped into Nakheel crew whilst on a trip in xxxxxxxx.
After some chatting things still seem to amaze me.:confused:
Heard that the MD is now gone, about time, sounds like EJME dejavue. The crew said that the ops side is a total mess and they never fly without incurring problems along the way. This is not the first time I had heard this from one of their captains, but anyway.:ugh:

But the best has to be that one of their new captains is apparently from EJME and was apparently sacked from that job. What a bunch of cowboys. Don't know the reason or if its true but apparently so. Ok so now we have an MD, training manager and a captain all from execujet and by the sounds of things have all been sacked. Whats up wit this Nakheel company, seems like their requirements are to have been sacked or maybe have a criminal record. CLASSIC CLASSIC CLASSIC:D

They also commented on some stupid little cabin crew member who tries to run the company and ops department. Maybe she is a wannabe or wants to feel important. Probably the reason that nothing runs smoothly. :=Again how CLASSIC

Any coments would be good.

Safe flying guys

[approachchecks]

:D:ok::D

Another cabin crew member just resigned.:ugh:

That's 4 crew in 2 months.:eek: Maybe this answers all the questions about this company. Probably more to come.:ok:


PRICELESS

[Latte tester]

"The correct company and salary will come along sooner or later."

Obviously the drugs you are taking aren't working.

Listen to what people are telling you. I am still waiting for salary from a ME company since 2001, not that I''ll ever get it, but I'm just one of many who are trying to stop this from continuing to unsuspecting, rose-colored-glasses wearing, newcomers. :ugh:

[m-e.flyer]

:confused: hmmm and I thought two cabin crew leaving are doing so as they would like to get away from flying. One of the captain's has never enjoyed the lifestyle of Dubai, bear in mind, living in Dubai is for the lifestyle and not saving money. Some of the hosties even have a maid, and certainly most of the pilots do. Maybe your sources arent all that correct.
For my part living in a sunny place way beats rainy Europe and having been back, the grass maybe greener there but certainly doesnt taste better.

Back to work it is- after a weekend of brunches in 5 star hotels by the marinas. Life is tough in the middle east.

[Latte tester]

M-E Flyer, If you are comparing DXB to some place like LHR or LGW then yes, DXB is a better place, but there are also loads of other places that Brits escaped to in order to get away from the dreariness of the small island. Perhaps brunches and maid service are enough for your lifestyle, but you're missing the point. Maybe you've had too much sun. Dubai lifestyle...hmmm, let me think... Oppressive summer heat, overcrowded city center, constant traffic jams, soaring prices and the forced religious shop closings... my kind of lifestyle - NOT! :ugh:
There's more to life than sun and brunches, well at least there's more to MY life.
It would appear that you like the POSER lifestyle

[approachchecks]

Your reply is such a bone head answer.:eek:

If this captain you are speaking about is drawing close to retirement, then who would not want to be saving money. Obviously you might be younger and have not thought that far ahead.:ugh:
I am no where near retirement and if you cannot save money where you live and work, then what is the point of it. No one works for free.
With regards to lifestyle, well if you are not an emiratee then where did you come from to think that this is a good lifestyle?
As LATTE TESTER stated, traffic is appalling, extremely hot summers, constantly air conditioned environment and services that need much to be desired. NOT FOR ME EITHER, well not unless I am SAVING MONEY and EARNING a huge salary. If I was then I might consider it. Maybe this is M-E FLYERS only option.
Maybe M-E Flyer should get his head out the sand and start saving for the future.:=

[Catar]

I agree with APPROACHCHECKS:D,

What type of fool, would be willing to work and not save money! Maybe the reason M-E Flyer is prepared to not save money is because he likes to spend his earnings trying to live this so called extravagant (false) lifestyle and therefore live above his means. Maybe he is a PLAYBOY WANNABE:cool: but doesnt earn enough to go all the way.
As M-E Flyer states "most crew have maids" maybe if they got off their lazy butts and did the ironing themselves then maybe they would be able to save. After reading all the other threads, they must have the time seen as they dont fly much.:{ By the way not all flight crew have maids.

As for the cabin crew, I know one of them personally and she informed me the real reason that they have left was due to Nakheel being so badly mis managed and constant broken promises. Maybe Nakheel has driven them out of the flying industry after having such a bad experience within the company. After the stories i've heard about the chief hostee:E, it does not surprise me they want to go, I bet there will be more going.:D

[OAT55DEGREES]

I am lucky enough to be based in DXB on one of the older contracts, which I must say is really great. This was due to Dubai not being a sort after workplace when I was offered employment.
The workplace has not changed and I believe is getting worse(traffic/temps/housing/cost of living) so after reading this thread, I really do feel for the crew that work for this Nakheel Company. These companies must remember that without drivers there is no company so I personally think that they should look after the present crew they have, just as the company I work for does. We have not had a crew member leave in years!:D
If Nakheel doesn't mind the costs involved (training/relocation etc)of crew leaving every 5 mins then they must get on with it but they must expect to have a bad reputation and not mind the pax not seeing the same crew, thus not building a solid relationship with the regular clients. I believe it helps having stable and happy crew as this provides a good working environment both at and away from the aircraft.

M-E Flyer states that crew come here for the lifestyle and not the money but this is definately personel choice. With the current housing allowance offered by his Nakheel Aviation(earlier post) who can afford to stay here and maintain a reasonable standard of living? I personally dont have a maid or drive a fancy car and I bet my salary far out weighs theirs. Maybe if you go live in Sharjah:= Not my choice of residence, especially if you consider our qualifications, experience and time its taken for us to get this far.
As for this head cabin crew member:E, if she worked for us, she would have been booted long time ago. Maybe she offers services other than inflight services (to management) which keeps her employed:=

M-E Flyer and Nakheel Aviation need to realise that salary keeps crew:ok:

Good luck to the crew who are also looking at leaving!:D

[springbokflyer145]

I am not sure of this but I think the Chief Pilot of this company used to be with Airlink in South Africa.

If it is the same person, then I personally do have to say I feel sorry for this company.
He is a company man and never used to really take care or worry about the crew.:= Not a chief pilot's butt to be honest. He only wanted to get the job done, no matter what. Safe or unsafe, cut corners etc that was not a problem. He always wanted to look good to management but one day when there is an accident, lets see how good he looks then.

If I had the choice of working under this person in sunny Dubai or having to take the miserable weather at LHR, then I would be packing for LHR.

Maybe these guys should play by the book to keep their planes and crew safe. There is no place for short cuts buddy. It will come back and bite you in the ass!:=

As for M-E Flyers comments:ugh:, I know a few pilots in Dubai, and if ME Flyers is like them, then the reason why he keeps going on about how great the lifestyle etc is, possibly like a previous reply, its because he has no other choice. It's where he came from or Dubai. So he would have to look at the bright side. Anywhere could be better than from his previous place of residence.


Please lets make this clear, this is personal choice made from experience and facts about certain people. I cannot see this company getting any better with him around. (if its the same person)

It just makes you realise how small this industry actually is.

:ok:SBF

[m-e.flyer]

Dear all,

instead of just taking your grudges onto this website, how about a little constructive feedback. If you know it all (especially about Nakheel, although none of you work here...) why not give out a little more info on where to go and what to do and not the opposite.

Seeing you are all happy with your great employers and lifestyle, what ar e you all doing on this site? You surely must have better things to do.

Admittedly I was lucky and have decent rent, pension schemes set up and great support from the family. But maybe you must all take the head out of the sand.

A few things about Dubai lifestyle:

Affordable brunch in a beautiful location with friends and family, watching the children play in a multicultural environment - priceless

children growing up multilingual- priceless

taking a cab at night, not being scared of being mugged- priceless

sleeping through the night not worrying about the house being broken into and one being killed- priceless

I m not sure when you all were last in Europe or where you maybe from. Traffic exists, of course you can live by the airport. Nice environment. Filling the car is well above 70 pounds. Salaries on new contracts not the greatest, many legs a day, no layovers, small flats.

It may come as news, but the wives actually work and support the family. Happily.

I agree coming to Dubai now and starting over is hard, especially considering schooling and rent and one needs to do the homework. But it everyone s own choice, people have different priorities and the right to choose. I m not sure why you all have to personally attack one another behind a website.

Dubai is changing, but it s not all bad. Its what you make of it. It would just be nice to see one positive person on here. But I guess happy people are out and about enjoying the freetime with friends and family.

And stores closing for prayer time???Dubai isnt Saudi.....in case you havent noticed.....but try finding a supermarket in many countries in Europe that has timings as the ones here, and oh....do not have anything delivered...it s only for the posers...in the meanwhile happy ironing guys.

Time to hit barasti and being thankful for what I have.

And dear all, the ops director (chief pilot) is extremely approachable and pro crew, nevermind the most helpful person in the company be it on a personal level or for work, in case anyone still cares to join the company I m sure he s open to your approach.

Happy flying for those who actually enjoy it

[sohat]

M-E Flyer,

Very well said.... My wife and I have been in Dubai now for exactly 1 year and we could not be settling in any better. We really like it here. Obviously it helps that I am lucky enough to be flying good equipment for a great owner but that alone is not enough to keep us happy, we find Dubai to be a very liveable city for all of the reasons that you mentioned and more. We hope to be here for a long time.

PM me sometime it would be great to catch up with you at Barasti for a cold one

Happy flying

[springbokflyer145]

Your comments
"taking a cab at night, not being scared of being mugged- priceless

sleeping through the night not worrying about the house being broken into and one being killed- priceless

You proved my point. By the sounds of things Dubai is better than where you came from and still as I commented, probably the only choice is there or Dubai so obviously you going to have to try make the most of it even if you have to put on a face to seem happy, who knows. Dubai might still not be the place you want to live but at least you are alive.

ME Flyer you obviously work for Nakheel due to a comment on your reply "none of you work here"

So come on then tell it how it truly is! By the replies on this site from some of your crew, it does not sound good. Maybe you should comment.

Sohat you make me laugh. Our point is that Dubai is not all that if you dont have this great job flying a nice machine and not being looked after. The point is crew will not be willing to stay if they are expected to work and have nothing in the bank at the end of the month due to living expenses. If housing is paid for etc etc then great, if its not then be prepared to battle.

If you are earning the AED100 000 per month then its wonderful. Hope you are buddy.

ME flyer i do look forward to hearing how it actually is.

[sohat]

Springbok,
I'm glad that I can entertain you:)
Like most of us viewing this forum I have traveled extensively and can say without a doubt that Dubai is one of the safest places that I have ever been. I think that was one of ME Flyer's points.
Of course any city has it pros and cons and Dubai has its fair share of both just like my hometown, maybe your's as well? For my wife and I the pros here in Dubai far out way the cons, so as long as that remains the case we will stick around.
I am not making anywhere near the amount that you mentioned per month but am still able to set aside some money and have what I think is a quality lifestyle here.
I think that you and I are saying the same thing just differently. I fully agree that this is no place to live if you are not being adequetely compensated, but where would be?
We find ourselves at a good time in this industry in that supply is not meeting demand for our services and we should take advantage of this.
There are airplanes coming to this region almost on a monthly basis and the seats up front are becoming increasingly difficult for the owners to fill with quality people. Once pilots stop taking the bad deals offered then the owners will be forced to come in line with other regions of the world.
I have heard that Nakheel is finding it tough to find good people to operate their new airplanes so maybe times are changing in our own backyard. Don't get me wrong I know very little about their department but we can all hope.....
I agree with your statement that you are looking forward to hearing how it really is. It would be nice if we could all know how it really is everywhere by putting some sort of a salary survey together for for this region. Similar to the NBAA or Professional Pilot Magazine Surveys in the US. I realize how difficult this would be to implement as the Owners and some Aviation Dept Managers would be hesitant to be truly forthcoming about their packages. Having said that I know that my department would be happy to participate in such a survey. How else can there be a regional industry salary standard?
At the end of the day if you are not happy with your deal and are unsuccessful in renegotiating and you are able then you should vote with your feet and leave. This will eventually bring the salaries up as long as there are so many airplanes to fly.
Maybe I have not been here long enough (1 year) to be jaded because I see things improving.
Happy Flying

[springbokflyer145]

M-E FLYER - your comment "And dear all, the ops director (chief pilot) is extremely approachable and pro crew, nevermind the most helpful person in the company be it on a personal level or for work"

It doesn't matter how approachable or helpful someone is, what does matter is if anything gets done once a problem has been brought to their attention. From some the the replies in this thread, I gather not so this guy cant be that helpful after all.

"living close to the airport" maybe you don't mind having an aircraft come over your house at 600ft every 2 minutes, whilst you trying to entertain friends and family. Not my idea of a nice place to live just to be close to work:=

Sohat, I personally know crew from SA that fly for this Nakheel company. Your comment stating that Nakheel is short of crew - well I can tell you why that is.

If crew with a family decide to go work for them and arrive in Dubai and go house hunting for a 3/4 bedroom villa to house their family, then they will be looking at paying between AED170000 to AED220000 in rent PA. Now if Nakheel offers you AED120 000 PA in housing allowance, then you do the maths and see how much comes out your own pocket.:ugh:

As soon as these guys arrive, see how the company and ops actually operate, they will be doing minimum time and heading off making this company always short of crew. It might work for single crew who can house share but what about crew with families?
What fascinates me is if this company has all this financial backing that it states it has, then why is nothing done to help make renting or even buying a home more easy? How many of the crew of this company own property in Dubai? I bet none as most cannot afford it and nothing is offered byt he company to help. I personally dont think they even care.

I bet the management know exactly what it costs to rent a 3/4 bedroom villa and once again nothing is done. You cannot tell me that Nakheel is not able to supply housing to the crew that they employ, they probably own 3/4 of Dubai! Im not sure but maybe the owners just see crew as another one of their servants and dont give a damn. Maybe the owners don't even know that there is a problem with crew and housing:confused: maybe this helpful chief pilot that is so approachable has not taken it any further than his desk or phone:confused: Who Knows. They must just be prepared to train new crew every few years at their expense, now thats good management.:ugh:


Just one last thing to mention about this company,

They operate a GV with only 2 crew, so what happens when crew are ill, need leave or have personal problems? They now have one lovely GV sitting on an apron costing them money. Again great thinking from management:D

Maybe the thinking of this operation was done at BARASTI BAR:D

HAPPY FLYING:)

[approachchecks]

Springbok flyer I think you have hit the nail on the head.:D

That sounds about right with all the info I have heard from people with regards to the cost of living. I believe the housing allowance should be increased at the same rate as the rental increase. If it doesnt,I wouldnt be willing to pay the short fall and like the crew that have left, would be seeking employment elsewhere.

I heard that this company thinks they operate on the same par as Emirates. I bet the Nakheel crew dont get picked up for work, get given villa's (with all expenses paid) I bet if this did actually happen, they would see how far they are falling short on their benefits.:=

Maybe this management needs a wake up call.:ugh: No good having lovely aircraft with no world wide experienced crew, with these decisions, can they actually call themselves management?:{

Rumour has it that they just purchased some hangers. I think they are going to need them as without crew, they will need somewhere to store these aircraft!
Maybe they should invest some more money into their crew and stuff the hangers. :O

MAYBE 2008 WILL BE A BETTER YEAR FOR THIS DODGY OUTFIT :ok:

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL

[LGW Vulture]

I hear they are to take the hangar that housed the Royal Pavillion during the Airshow. ;)

[Silverspoonaviator]

I think they are as good, or as bad as the rest in ME.

With a little bit of fine tuning, they would be better.

But then I am only a 1000 on type G550 driver, so what do I know.

ssa

[springbokflyer145]

Silverspoonaviator your comment "I would work with them, if they offered me a Captains position" & I think they are as good, or as bad as the rest in ME.
With a little bit of fine tuning, they would be better.


From the crew that I know there, they said "That's exactly what they thought":ugh:
When they actually started flying and experienced first hand how their ops department and the company operate, you will be counting down the days to get out of there.:confused:

But hey this info only comes from crew that work there so what do I know anyway:ok:

spf

[jollyboy]

Anyone got any idea who is running the show now? Any name and contact details available? (PM if you have anything)

Thanks

[dbs]

Anyone have any updated info??

[skyhighgirl]

Any updated info or no one knows nothing??