Is Ek This Bad? [Archive]

EK Pilot

27th November 2006, 19:33

My take from the inside.

1) DE Captain is detroying careers - not destroying, but affecting.
2) Fatigue is a major issue - Absobloodylutely. Deafness an attribute of most managers though.
3) Housing is at best temporary. Can be moved to a new outpost in desert - I have had three company houses and just about to move to my fourth.
4) Pay is not on par with inflation - See answer to 2)
5) Managers who are anti-pilot - Not anti-pilot, just self serving. They are on a different bonus scheme, so why rock the boat?
6) New sick policy means potential BK or jail time without ability to pay bills - Yes, but only if you have debts here that will not be covered by a 50% reduction in your salary, which is pretty much everyone.
7) Sub par retirement - Definately, unless you are lucky enough to be able to put extra by each month.

I read recently in another post a fantastic quote taken from the movie An Inconvenient Truth. I'll type it here in bold and emphasise that TCAS and Ed et al should really be judged by these words, not by their actions.

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.

Oblaaspop

28th November 2006, 03:09

Once and for all folks, THERE IS NO NEW SICKNESS POLICY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its the same as its always been. The 14 day allowable sickness clause has always been there, its just never been enforced. (if anyone can give a specific example of where it has, then please share it with us). There are however many examples of guys who have been medium/long term sick who have been well looked after.....

Wrt accomodation, I've been in mine for the last 3 years and counting (hardly the definition of temporary), however I will conceed that a MINORITY of people have been p1ssed around, but the guys I know in DSO seem to like it (not exactly the 'prison camp' in the desert some were labling it as!).

As for the rest of the points, couldn't agree more!

Cyberbird

28th November 2006, 03:50

quote: "There are however many examples of guys who have been medium/long term sick who have been well looked after....."

... well, that can't be the poor guy, who was run over recently by a local reckless driver and broke his leg (badly &multiple!) and is now refused to receive any more than 6 physio-sessions, as the blokes at the EK clinic are refusing to pay the bills furtheron!?:yuk: Over the budget they say!!! :eek:
Pretty bad that one - the poor guy is now limping there on his own (no transport paid/ and has to fork out the bucks for the ongoing physio-sessions now out of his own pocket - which is about 250 Dirham each :{ !!
That's how EK treats You, when You got long-term sick -without your own fault ;-((

145qrh

28th November 2006, 04:24

Sorry for the thread creep:)

Ek Clinic has some very good doctors, but like all EK departments they have a budget.

They do try and cut as much cost as they can, limits on Physio, dental, re-charging for prescription medecine...Inflated costs for over the counter stuff at Pharmacy....supposed to non-profit but they charge more than local pharamcy..go figure

It sounds like that they are thinking of implementing the terms in our contract...which haven't changed , we have been relying on the generosity of our magnificent managers to go above and beyond what they have to do...after all EK is in serious financial difficulty:bored: .....stands to reason, the only other companies as ruthless about cost cutting are in Chapt 11...:ugh: :ugh:

AS for the other points mostly spot on..despite what Turtle has to offer..

DEC programme was the first the sign of trouble. Cost cutting has had a major affect on most peoples long term financial situation....cost neutral salary cuts put me worse of now than I was 3 years ago..as for the spending power of the Dh in you pocket , I'll let the financial whizz kids work out exactly how much that has cost, all I know is that I know earn less, and have a lower standard of living now than I did before I joined EK...over 3 years ago..and before turtle head says that I am better of.....

Yes, the Villa I live in is larger, but a bed is a bed even if it is in a room 4 times the size, a TV shows the same stuff even if it's 42", the huge 4x4 is still a car, bit of a necessity rather than luxury and it costs me more than the sedan I used to drive on account of fuel economy being about a fifth as good, standard of produce im shops is generally poor, variety is another matter...

I go out less, have less savings, fewer holidays, and am permanently knackered...so as far as I am concerned my standard of living is lower..

.....DEC programme,anti pilot managers, inflation ...all add up to a huge pay cut...

Pause for breath...rant over

CAYNINE

28th November 2006, 05:37

Cyberbird,

Have a look at the guys on long term sick leave via the roster/duty/sk, call them and see if they are;

being paid the full wage,

been told by the company that they are on limited sick leave,

that they are limited on the amount of care they will receive,

You will find that everything is the same as has always been, physio has always been limited to 6 visits at a time, I had 15, clinic had no problem with approving more on the recommendation of the physio, so don't know why your friend is different.

Overall, what would you get from say Cx/BA/QF/SQ etc if you had the same issues with them.... 2/3rds of f:mad: all!!!:=

Wiley

28th November 2006, 06:47

I have to say that I know of two or three people who have been off sick long term who have nothing but good things to say about the way they were treated by management. I don't know any details of the case of the pilot who broke his leg and I don't know if policy has changed over the last month ot two, but give credit where it's due - right up to the very recent past, EK management have gone well beyond what the contract says in looking after pilots who were ill.

To balance my bouquet with a brickbat, I'd have to agree with the comment above regarding the Provident Fund's (non)performance. Looking at average market performance over the last few years, I can't believe the poor returns my A and B accounts have achieved.

magnum44

28th November 2006, 07:43

Anyone in EK who can tell me the recruitment policy for employing people of different nationalities, do they have any preferences e.g Europeans, GCC Nationals, Asians etc.
I heard of conlicting stories and I need some truth.:rolleyes:

Wiley

28th November 2006, 08:05

The ONLY nationality given any sort of preference is UAE nationals, for the obvious reason that they'd like as many of their own citizens flying their aeroplanes - and the UAE is by no means alone in having that preference.

Judging by the extraordinary racial/nationality mix you see on the flight deck, there would appear to be no policy in place to avoid any race or nationality - I'm assuming, (pretty safely, I'd say) - with one expeption when it comes to nationality, and that's towards citizens of that State-that-can't-be-named, the 'hard place' King Abdullah of Jordan was referring to when he said that his country was "between Iraq and a Hard Place". That avoidance doesn't extend to people whose religion is the main religion of that 'hard place', for there are a number of pilots in the airline of that religion, and I know one or two of them make no attempt to hide their religion.

The only other 'skew' that I'm aware of is a desire not to have too large a group of any one particular nationality. As for why they want that, I'll leave for someone else to answer.

jinglied

28th November 2006, 11:10

Regarding sick leave...

I believe for the most part, pilot's are reasonably well taken care of.

However, with dependants the story is different. EK has stopped the cash when the $300,000dhs (until recently the amount of coverage was $200,000) has been burned through. This has happened a couple of times in the last year. You will be left holding the medical bill, unless you have other medical insurance. $300,000dhs ain't much.

Jinglied

BYMONEK

28th November 2006, 20:35

Regarding the Provident fund, it's the 5% that the Company provide which will need to exceed the statutory EOB, or else the latter is paid. Our own compulsory 5% is NOT factored into the calculations and would be in addition to the above sum.

I do agree, however, that there is too much protection built into our scheme and the recent results of the A + B fund is nothing short of criminal. People really need to start asking some searching questions. :suspect:

Ramboflyer 1

29th November 2006, 02:47

So if one of your family is run over on a crossing by a well to do person, and the bills run past 300k then you gotta pay for the rest yourself ?
Souds extreme but the chances of this happening are really quite high.
I have also heard many insurance companies pick out loop holes with a fine tooth comb to avoid paying up.

jinglied

29th November 2006, 06:09

Ramboflyer 1..

EK will payout $300,000dhs per dependant per disease/condition etc. So.. yes, if your child/spouse gets severally injured, becomes very ill, etc.. the company guarantees only $300,000dhs. If something else happens to another member of your family (or something different to the SAME member) the $300,000 dhs will be available again for the new case.

EK has recently continued paying beyond that amount for dependants with TERMINAL illness, (I know of at least one case where they continued support beyond $300,000dhs) but for non life threatening situations, you are left holding the tab.

Jinglie'd

fatbus

29th November 2006, 06:51

jinglied

29th November 2006, 10:38

Hey there "FATBUS"

I don't recall saying it was the worst job, nor the best. I am stating what I know happened. Seems like you're the one complaining..

And I have no intention of leaving at the moment.

Jinglie'd

fatbus

29th November 2006, 11:07

I dont complain ,to much of a wasted effort, just do my 90 hrs month because we really cant do much more and wait for what I think is a better job ( it may not happen in my life time)

Wiley

29th November 2006, 12:03

just do my 90 hrs month I'm not sure whether to say "Only 90 hours? Looxuury!" or "Slacker!"

Myway or the highway

1st December 2006, 03:43

Hi there all,

I have placed a similiar thread to this in another topic, but decided to put a separate one for exposure!

Situation as I have been contacted by EK for grade 09 position (but after 9 nmths since the advert was posted....which in itself begs a question!)and possible interview, I thought it best to canvas those currently in DXB and working for EK as to what they are like in looking after their people...DO THEY REALLY WALK THE WALK AND NOT JUST TALK THE TALK?

I know the salary for EK09 is around 18,000 dhs pmth....are they negotiable?
I have recieved the conditions sheet (with no base salary) but everything else seems OK on outside!

I have seen some unfavourable comments re housing, as i WAS looking to use the company accommodation and some have said they have been moved numerous times, why is this and is this normal? obviously we dont want to keep having to move every so often as this a real pain in the arse!

we want to be in a villa near the city for ease of access and does an EK09 get a villa (how many bedrooms?) or apartment?

are the villas freestanding or in a compound with pool, garage or carport, etc? what sort of condition are they in (incl the furniture)?

does one get to choose the villa (accommodation) or are you just given one and lump it or like it?

Where is the desert camp, why would one want to go out that far?

cost of living question: what a normal/ average trolley of groceries cost their for a family of 2 adults/1 child?

can anyone give me a precis of the interview process (non pilot/aircrew) as I believe it is over a 2 day period and did they arrange airfare, accommodation and visa (and pay for it) and what about meals?, where is it held?

for the interview do they pick you up at the airport and drop you off again?

what is cost of petrol?

what are better areas for renting (if I go that route) ...only get around 106,000 dhs pa for rent allowance (and it seems to rent a 3 bed villa in decent area at least 150k dhs pa or more?

tips on schools for child just entering high school ?

any issues re the health, insurance side of things with the company?

re the staff profit share...for an EK09 what was that over the last few financial years and is this based on a potential of your base salary?

I also noticed they may have an additional bonus if exceed their nominated profit, has that ever happened? how is that share based?

I know there will be those of you who will have an axe to grind and I am happy for you to vent your steam, however all I ask is that you can keep it objective for me at the same time, I do need to hear all the pros and the cons from you good folk.

all for now will have q's more later

rgds

Myway
:8 :8

cyclops camel

1st December 2006, 04:19

Myway,
I have 8 years at EK. If your outlook on life is the same as your callsign then may I respectfully suggest that niether Dubai nor Emirates will be your cup of tea.
Good luck with your decision.
CC.

PMS

1st December 2006, 18:52

Myway

cant speak for emirates, however after working for Serco in AUH for a few years, I would not recommend it. Most private companies tend to take advantage of the lack of IR worklaws there when they can.

As I said dont know about emirates but could be much the same. As for Dubai lots of traffic apparently.

cmon you emirates lot I would be interested to hear your answers to compare with my experience.

cheers:confused:

Myway or the highway

1st December 2006, 23:19

Hi Borat

tks for the info, funny the site says they cover airfares to DXB for interview, visas and accommodation?

Re the villas, are these in a compound or are they free standing?
and if you have to move do they cover the cost of the shift to a new premises?

re the "desert camp" where exactly is that located in relation to the airport and the aviation college?

Cost of petrol (I am from Australia) is cheap at around 42c AUD per litre ...we pay around $1.20 AUD per litre!!:D

Please forward more info all of you emirates staffers, would be much appreciated.

rgds

Myway
:cool:

ruserious

1st December 2006, 23:48

Myway, I have a few friends that are grade 9 and I will answer based on what I know of their terms & conditions.
Your Grade 9 package is very dependant on what the job is. I would be surprised if a "core G9" position gets as much as 18,000 pcm. I would have thought it would be nearer to 14K. By a Core G9 position I mean a HR person or some other middle management position. In Flight Services (Cabin crew) generally get more than a core G9 position and Flight Crew Training Instructors get roughly the same basic as a First Officer (18K).
As to accommodation, if you are single or married without kids, you will almost certainly get offered a apartment. These are to a good standard usually, however you cannot guarantee location or quality. The accommodation department will dump you where they have availability and sometimes it can be really quite bad. You have little or no influence on this.
DO NOT think about finding your own accommodation, you WILL regret that.
All in all, a G9 position can be OK, but you will have to learn the company way of doing things, don't rock the boat, don't expect to or try and improve things, expect to be managed by a totally unsuitable person and treated like you are disposable.
However, if you can play the game (embrace the organisations psycopathic treatment off staff and cut costs at every corner) expect rapid promotion to SVP level :}

Myway or the highway

2nd December 2006, 03:14

ruserious

tks for the info. This is for an ATC instructor position (ie training ATCs at the college) at the aviation college so definitely a core HR role, so I will still assume until otherwise advised it will be in the realm of the 18,000 dhs/mth mark unless otherwise advised.

tks again.
waiting for more input ladies and gents, please step forward with your input.

cheers

Myway
:ouch:

Check 'Six'

2nd December 2006, 04:02

On 18k per month if you are single? you can live reasonably well. If you have a family to take care of? Forget it!

We have three kids and running the household expenses and kids extras, comes to 15k p.m.

Every month this place experiences an escalation of costs.

The Dirham is also linked to the US. I dont think an elaborate explanation is required on that subject. Especially if we witness a further weakness of the greenback.

Expect your contract to change at will! As and when the HR and accounting team deem so. Without your consent! It's never required!

Check Six:cool:

Myway or the highway

2nd December 2006, 05:27

check 6

tks, only me, the wife and one child, struth 15K per mth for expenses seems a little on the high side, we thought we should have no probs living on around 7,500 per month considering all the other stuff they pay for!!

Obviously I must be getting incorrect information from others.

what would one expect to pay for an average trolly of groceries there, from one of the middle range supermarkets, not purchasing anything to fancy either?

more input as per my questions earlier post would be appreciated, when you have the time.

I know the salary for EK09 is around 18,000 dhs pmth....are they negotiable?
I have recieved the conditions sheet (with no base salary) but everything else seems OK on outside!

I have seen some unfavourable comments re housing, as i WAS looking to use the company accommodation and some have said they have been moved numerous times, why is this and is this normal? obviously we dont want to keep having to move every so often as this a real pain in the arse!

we want to be in a villa near the city for ease of access and does an EK09 get a villa (how many bedrooms?) or apartment?

are the villas freestanding or in a compound with pool, garage or carport, etc? what sort of condition are they in (incl the furniture)?

does one get to choose the villa (accommodation) or are you just given one and lump it or like it?

Where is the desert camp, why would one want to go out that far?

cost of living question: what a normal/ average trolley of groceries cost their for a family of 2 adults/1 child?

can anyone give me a precis of the interview process (non pilot/aircrew) as I believe it is over a 2 day period and did they arrange airfare, accommodation and visa (and pay for it) and what about meals?, where is it held?

for the interview do they pick you up at the airport and drop you off again?

what is cost of petrol?

what are better areas for renting (if I go that route) ...only get around 106,000 dhs pa for rent allowance (and it seems to rent a 3 bed villa in decent area at least 150k dhs pa or more?

tips on schools for child just entering high school ?

any issues re the health, insurance side of things with the company?

re the staff profit share...for an EK09 what was that over the last few financial years and is this based on a potential of your base salary?

I also noticed they may have an additional bonus if exceed their nominated profit, has that ever happened? how is that share based?

I know there will be those of you who will have an axe to grind and I am happy for you to vent your steam, however all I ask is that you can keep it objective for me at the same time, I do need to hear all the pros and the cons from you good folk.

await your response!

cheers

Fart Master

2nd December 2006, 09:34

We have 1 kid, and are fairly careful with our money and I reckon it costs us about 12-14,000 on average each month.

The dollar will almost certainly de-value, when I arrived it was 5.6 to the pound, as of yesterday it was about 7.2, couple that with rampant inflation.

Keep suffering:ok: ...... sorry recovering;)

Myway or the highway

2nd December 2006, 20:15

tks all fro those who responded.

after a fairly late night trawl of the net (incl pprune) I reckon I have just about got the picture and all the info I was looking for, plus with my 2 year experience earlier this century, the jury will be out for a while, I think.

Just want a place to see me to retirement over next 7-10 years but not sure this will do it, especially if ERP is chucked.

As I am going for an ATC instructor position, is the "pilots club" only open to EK pilots or would they welcome an EK ATC instructor into the club as well?

also, the one thing I have been able to dig up info on is the so called "waiting lists" at some schools... can someone enlighten me please?

wait foryour replies to the above.

cheers;)

CAYNINE

3rd December 2006, 03:46

My Way,

PM.

maddog62

3rd December 2006, 04:09

what is cost of petrol? Dhs 4.65 / USG - most expensive petrol in all of GCC states.

It's actually Imperial Gallons (1IG=4,546L) in the U.A.E.....

Some good news for a change....:8

mad

Wilbur Post

3rd December 2006, 10:25

Nice to see that some single FOs like Waltair are happy since joining EK 9 months ago. However from someone who has been here considerably longer, perhaps Ed the talking horse may be able answer some of the following:
1. If EK has the pilots we need (as seen in 7days) why are we flying 100 hours a month,
2.Why is there no leave available,
3.Why Captains have 2 – 3 months of leave owing that can't be taken,
4.Why we fly around 2 crew where most other airlines would use two or three on flights with similar duty times,
5.Why we fly to New York direct in aircraft with no bunks,
6.Why no one can be bothered submitting safety reports anymore,
7.Why the company is pursuing to increase our annual flying limit to 1000hrs when the majority of Captains are already chronically fatigued,
8.Why we have to explain to a dispatcher how much fuel we want to take,
9.Why pilots are carpeted for submitting fatigue related safety reports,
10.Why our rosters come out 4 days before they start,
11.Why training captains are leaving EK to join Cathay as Second Officers, and Dragon Air, and others as FOs
12. Why pilots are leaving in record numbers.

ZigZagZog

3rd December 2006, 15:13

Myway,

I too know several EK09 'middle managers'.

The answers & comments given by Ruseriious & co are on the mark, especially about the pay level & cost of living. You will do well to get above 14/15k.

A few other comments:

On this salary level, you will need another income source to get you any spending or saving money.... most spouse's of this income level HAVE to work as such...

Silicon Oasis, the desert camp, is a group of about 80 villa's, similar in fashion and design to Ranches / Meadows etc. They are brand new, and still not fully occupied, although I think some have been living there now for about 6 months. Key point for you however is that they are Grade 10 & above only. So not for you unless you can sway Accom in some miraculous manner...

The utilities / rental allowance will not get you good enough accomodation on the open rental market in Dubai - you will have to look at Sharjah as option, which is where most the EK subcontinent middle managers live, or even Al Ain, neither attractive for a variety of reasons. Even Mirdiff, the previous 'cheap' spot, is out of your reach unless you look at a small 2 bed place.

If you wish to buy, you will need about 40 or 50% deposit to be allow your allowance to pay your mortgage, or if you have smaller deposit, you will need to top up your mortgage to tune of 2 or 3 k per month minimum.

Schools have become busy again, and waiting lists the norm again, even after several new schools opening. You will have some limited choice, and EK employment is an advantage in some of the schools, but your choice of living location (if any) may (likely) to be in direct conflict with location of school.

The pilots club is known as EPC - now is pilots only as Associate membership has been stopped or capped (not sure which) - but either way, I doubt they will be able to accept you. If they do, it helps someway with some discounts and some beach club entrance, so the annual fee is well worth it.

And just like everyone else in the company, whether pilot, CC, or clerk, secretary or manager, EK will get their pound of flesh from you, no matter how hard you try to play it down the middle.

But Dubai is fun place to live, the weather is great for most of year, despite this weekend's 7's wash-out, and a lot of other positives. The traffic is a nightmare, but you learn to live with it just like any other city or place that has rush hours... the local laws and bureacracies are a minefield...

If it is a good career move, then take it, and manage the finances closely. If it is just for some fun in the sun, then OK too. But if you think you're coming to make some brass for old age, then forget it!:=

Cheers
ZZZ

hawki

3rd December 2006, 19:05

an expat born n bred in dubai ....i had been afemale cadet from dubai who finished my ab-intio training in British aerospace early this jan..
(alongside some 300 Ek/CX/JAL/KA/CAL cadets who r also mass FACTORY produced..there. )

n i tell you - its not the employee packages tat worry me in EK anymore

its how many times any EK cadet is ALLOWED to fail his CPL theory exams on subjects like MET n HPL tat leave me bewildered///

i wonder how long before safety n atitude will become "an issue" within the organization!
ps: alongwith employee morale ofcourse....which seems to be @ grnd zero from the "seems of these threads ! "

S.

i dont feel sorry for anyone here except this poor little girl who think EK cadets's doesnt deserve what they are getting after their trainings. Sofia, do you still remember when you used to come to EK guys and ask them to help you? would you mind letting everyone knows how many time you failed in your CPL? anyway, please when you talk leave the EK cadets out of the subject and just talk about your self.. EK cadets got their people to judge them not you..

sofee

4th December 2006, 04:56

mustang989

4th December 2006, 05:39

I agree we all should use this forum to share information and help! :D

Hawki please take some advise and get off your high horse.:}

mensaboy

4th December 2006, 08:25

It's pretty difficult to take someone who types in 'text' speak, seriously. Just my opinion.

Fogrunner

4th December 2006, 11:13

It's pretty difficult to take someone who types in 'text' speak, seriously. Just my opinion.

I have to agree. It is similar to reading something from 13 year old.

PITA

4th December 2006, 13:32

If you are going to take the time to post answers to these threads, please do yourself and the rest of us reading this a favor, and to NOT type in text.

hawki

5th December 2006, 21:23

hawki --- dont get senti here-

i passed my cpl on first go - how abt u chk some records b4 u quote ;)as for ek - i have some very dear friends - and each of them deserve what they have. lets not get personal here. this is not a personal forum but a professional one to seek and share information! lets keep it that way-

well, no need to remind you, as you always had issues with EK people. I dont know why but I wish you the best with your career. Remember, what Tony Carter told you. He was talented by knowing people with attituds.. I have nothing against you but I really dont appreciate you talking on EK cadets behalf. They got their people to judge them not you. and yes they are so lucky.. :)

MR8

6th December 2006, 05:22

Guys, 4HP got this discussion closed in another thread. Please don't start here. Exchange phonenumbers and start texting eachother, looks like a good idea... (at least you master that spelling)

4HP, if these people go on, couldn't you just ban them? Their a nuisance..

MR8

hawki

6th December 2006, 05:26

I got over it man. relax :)

JHONDOE

6th December 2006, 19:35

Hi Check Six.

Going back some 5 odd years, I asked you quite a few questions above joining EK and how life was in Dubai. After spending some years in Dubai and EK (we may even have shared the same flight deck) I must thank you for a sober and open minded view in your ansewers. Your description of the place and the job is just and accurate.

Havn`t been on this forum for years, not a lot has change, but I am supprised that you still are living in Dubai and making a living of Emirates( or may be it is the other way around)!

You hopefulls out their can listen to this gentleman and expect to get an honnest opinion.

All the best.

Check 'Six'

6th December 2006, 19:59

Hello JD. You are welcome anytime my friend.
Yes, still here. I have a few applications in elsewhere. Just trying to get back home and live in a "normal'' place. ;) Our eldest child has 18 more months of school to go. And then, hopefully I can quitely back my bags and leave! Let's see what plans my family have in store for me:ugh:

Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it! If you are a sidestick fiddler like me? We probably have flown together.:)

All The Best

Check 'Six'

dedeita

6th December 2006, 21:22

I sent the EK online application two weeks ago and they called this morning, unfortunately i was out of town, i hope i haven´t lost my chance. At this time i have 9 years as F/O in my company and at least another 6 to upgrade, i think EK will be a good move:ugh:

dunerider

7th December 2006, 03:15

I wonder why they got back to you so quickly?A good move .........

journeyman

7th December 2006, 03:16

deteita,

Don't worry - you haven't lost your chance. They'll keep calling and calling until they get hold of you. Just think of it as practice for your later dealings with crew scheduling.:)

bigilla

7th December 2006, 10:22

i have 9 years as F/O in my company and at least another 6 to upgrade, i think EK will be a good move

Dedeita, if you join EK now, you can expect to remain in the right seat in excess of 7 years, IMHO. So don't join for a quicker upgrade but just for a change of lifestyle/country/aircraft etc, if this suits you better.

dedeita

8th December 2006, 14:25

thanks all of you for reply... Do you think you can live a decent way with EK F/O salary if you have family(wife and two 1 year old girls). I have read that supermarket and entertainment are very expensive...Do you think EK is an airline to stay until retirement(at 60).:sad:

puff m'call

8th December 2006, 15:02

NO := to both.

Check 'Six'

8th December 2006, 21:36

Absolutely Not! With current pay and conditions you will find yourself wondering why you came here in the first place? That of course depends on how much you are making now and what your cost of living is?
But here in Dubai on FO salary with two kids? Not good at all!
The salary needs some serious injections, preferably with anabolic steroids! And soon!
Check 'Six'

ernestkgann

9th December 2006, 03:30

Salary is an issue, and with the demise of the US$, getting more serious daily depending on your home currency but we need a life. Rostering and FTLs need to be fixed properly with a realistic view to the long term. The fudging and flexing of regulations and the average monthly hours make this kind of life unsustainable no matter how much you're paid.

turtleneck

9th December 2006, 06:39

well, let managers and numbers speak:
emergency meeting with the talking horse and tcas, because the total backlog of acceptable pilots in the pipeline is between (two sources) 22 and 40!!
it seems that pilots in other operators are a little more informed and less foolish than ek always presumes:
quote from the cold weather brief : "Don’t be fooled by procedures at other operators." :ugh:

dedeita

9th December 2006, 13:26

I would have liked to join all of you at EK but i staying at home.. It seems too risky leave my job for just a promise of being upgraded to heavy jet captain in less than 5 years...BTW thanks all of you for reply:{

ERJ145flyer

9th December 2006, 13:32

I know of 4 pilots that were off for more than 1 year on full pay. know of one dependant whose care bill far exceeded 300000( company paid ). You get tried of hearing guys complain all the time , its not the best job out there but its ok. For those who cant shut up just leave you would be doing us all a big favour.

I totally agree Fatbus with you. Please those of you who do not like it leave and make room for us to join. There are people where ever they go, they will always complain. I see them here in the US all the time and they get paid 3 times more than me and you know what I am even more qualified then them for the job they have. So, please leave now if you do not like EK....as for me I know many pilots that are there and love it... so stop discouraging those of how want to get in.
:yuk:

MR8

9th December 2006, 14:14

ERJ145Flyer...

How can you agree with fatbus? I mean, if you're not working here at EK, how can you have a valid opinion about how things work here?

...they get paid 3 times more than me and you know what I am even more qualified then them for the job they have...

Ok, your colleagues might be better paid then you are. Ever wondered how that's possible? Maybe they have a lot more experience then you? Maybe they made a right choice early in their career? Anyhow, you shouldn't complain about how much other people earn, you should strive to get the same.
And what makes you more qualified then they are? If you were, you would probably in their seat, earning their money.

After this post I have an opinion about you (which might be wrong): You look like a frustrated regional jet flyer, probably bounced of the mainline after Sept 11. You will do anything to fly the big nice shiny jets, even bend over and take it hard (no vaseline provided). Because of your frustration, you can't see the struggle people here at EK have, and thus you can not sympathise with us.
I really hope you will get a job out here as a F/O. You might even prove to me what you're really worth should we end up in a typhoon. middle of the night in Hyderabad, or in a thunderstorm around Addis... But most of all, I wish you won't change your name here on pprune after you join EK (should you have the chance..) It's always funny to see how the wannabees change their mind after about a year in Fantasyland.. And, yes, me too, I'm guilty of that!!

MR8

ERJ145flyer

9th December 2006, 14:22

I'm not sure whether to say "Only 90 hours? Looxuury!" or "Slacker!"

Do you guys get paid extra over the monthly average?

ERJ145flyer

9th December 2006, 14:47

ERJ145Flyer...
How can you agree with fatbus? I mean, if you're not working here at EK, how can you have a valid opinion about how things work here?
Ok, your colleagues might be better paid then you are. Ever wondered how that's possible? Maybe they have a lot more experience then you? Maybe they made a right choice early in their career? Anyhow, you shouldn't complain about how much other people earn, you should strive to get the same.
And what makes you more qualified then they are? If you were, you would probably in their seat, earning their money.
After this post I have an opinion about you (which might be wrong): You look like a frustrated regional jet flyer, probably bounced of the mainline after Sept 11. You will do anything to fly the big nice shiny jets, even bend over and take it hard (no vaseline provided). Because of your frustration, you can't see the struggle people here at EK have, and thus you can not sympathise with us.
I really hope you will get a job out here as a F/O. You might even prove to me what you're really worth should we end up in a typhoon. middle of the night in Hyderabad, or in a thunderstorm around Addis... But most of all, I wish you won't change your name here on pprune after you join EK (should you have the chance..) It's always funny to see how the wannabees change their mind after about a year in Fantasyland.. And, yes, me too, I'm guilty of that!!
MR8

Yes, I am a frustrated regional jet flyer, and I have been trying to move on to the shiny jets for a very long time.... Is that wrong? You know the industry and the slow down, and sir, I do have the PIC JET time (military and civil) and no, I am not like you put it....bounced of the mainline, never had the chance to get there... you were just lucky to be at the right place when the wheel of time was turning. So, there is no need to use low language, just as you have your opinion, I have mine. Again, yes I did not get there yet, but I know of other people working with EK who are happy. And I do look forward to flying with you in any situation....because you will have the opportunity to really know me, then make your opinion. Finally, if it is so bad, why are you still there, have you applied somewhere else....hmm...Cheers!

Fogrunner

9th December 2006, 16:13

as for me I know many pilots that are there and love it... so stop discouraging those of how want to get in.
:yuk:
I don't have a dog in this fight, however I do have an observation. If you know many pilots at Emirates who love it there, why don't you ask your questions of them, instead of getting into a pissing contest on this public forum.
No I do not work at Emirates, but have been asked twice in the last two months to attend a "selection programme". No where is utopia and the EK F/Os do have some very valid concerns, especially those who have had their upgrades delayed by the DEC folks. I guess going from a Jungle Jet to a triple 7 would seem like utopia. After about 6 months it is just an airplane.

ERJ145flyer

9th December 2006, 19:00

I don't have a dog in this fight, however I do have an observation. If you know many pilots at Emirates who love it there, why don't you ask your questions of them, instead of getting into a pissing contest on this public forum.
No I do not work at Emirates, but have been asked twice in the last two months to attend a "selection programme". No where is utopia and the EK F/Os do have some very valid concerns, especially those who have had their upgrades delayed by the DEC folks. I guess going from a Jungle Jet to a triple 7 would seem like utopia. After about 6 months it is just an airplane.

I do not doubt that there may be some issues, and I did not post any questions here. All I said is, in my opinion, for those who do not like it, should quit and go to their respective countries and get the better pay, schedules, life style, etc, etc.... Like someone said earlier, it is not for everybody. And yes, there are happy people there and they have answered my questions. Also, yes this is a public forum, and it is not just a one way forum mister... so I say chap..

southflyer

9th December 2006, 19:15

is that BM by chance? just a thought...

dedeita

9th December 2006, 19:30

:{ I have been invited to a selection program also and my EK friends advice me to stay here, they say that is very difficult to quit EK speciality if you dont want to lose cash. I do agree with the rest of the guys that we can´t talk about EK if we dont even work there:ok:

Check 'Six'

9th December 2006, 20:58

ERJ what is the problem? Have you applied to EK? Have you been invited for an interview? Because you are starting to sound like our friend Captain America! Who has been here for five minutes compared to a lot of us and already he's been in the news papers making the headlines! So by all means have an opinion! But why are you not here? That is the question. Because we are SERIOUSLY DESPERATE for PILOTS and we are no longer very picky either!! :D

Dedeita compadre!! Do not feel bad about your decision not to come here. Companies like EK, EY, QR and GF will always but always be looking for new pilots to join. The question must always be. Is it worth my while to move over to another country as an EXPAT? For YOU and your FAMILY. And if you have a really lousy job back home, then this place will seem like a welcome relief.

Check 'Six':ok:

dedeita

9th December 2006, 23:22

Dedeita compadre!! Do not feel bad about your decision not to come here. Companies like EK, EY, QR and GF will always but always be looking for new pilots to join. The question must always be. Is it worth my while to move over to another country as an EXPAT? For YOU and your FAMILY. And if you have a really lousy job back home, then this place will seem like a welcome relief.

Check 'Six':ok:[/quote]

actually i have a very good job in my country but i was attracted by the idea of being upgraded to heavy jet captain soon. with the seniority number i have now i will be flying the 777 as captain at least in 15 years, i hope the company still here. i owe you a beer..hasta la vista

a320skybus

10th December 2006, 02:48

Why do Pilots love to talk bad about the company's they work for ?:{
If you don't like Emirates leave:ugh: ................................................
I would love to join Emirates:ok:

jinglied

10th December 2006, 03:36

..A320skybus..

You would love to join EK? Based on what?

Jinglie'd

145qrh

10th December 2006, 04:05

I wish our friends from overseas, mainly the Americas it would seem, would realise that "if you don't like it leave mantra" is almost completely bollocks..Leaving an expat job to go home , or elsewhere for that matter, is not the same as leaving McDonald's to go and work at Wendy's.

Many ( or most ) of us are unhappy that is without debate. What is up for debate is under what pretext we came here. I for one believed it was the job for me, good money, quick command, company of integrity, etc,etc, well that is the line recruitment was giving 4 years ago, and to be fair I think they were being honest.

The bar stewards have become increasingly greedy since then, the DEC debacle was the first of many things that have had an adverse effect on peoples lives....and all we get from our "management" and our brothers on the outside is ":if you don't like it leave"...Bollucks...

If you leave EK within , lets say 5 years or so you will take a huge financial hit, I am just about the same financial positing now I was in over 3 years ago,,bear in mind that is where I was, not where I would have been if I had not joined, all things being equal. SO quite behind the drag curve . Never mind the expense of doing it all in reverse......

Families get settled, kids enjoy school,, and yes you do get used to having a maid( if you can find a good one ), it's nice to see the sun, although you cant enjoy it, it's so effin hot in the summer, but still nice to see.

So as I hope you opinionated lot can see , please look at the bigger picture, life is a lot more complex than some meaningless sound bite " if you don't like it leave" ....

ps if you lot think it's so good, why aren't you here, as someone said we are so desperate now that you may be in with a shout...:)

ironbutt57

10th December 2006, 04:59

No I dont work at EK but in the gulf for 15yrs and a bit...many folks come here with hopes and reams of instant wealth, and a huge disposable income..and very quickly become disillusioned..it's simply not the case..you will need time after settling in, setting up the family before any disposeable income becomes apparent..many become disappointed by "shifting goalposts" at their employer as they seek the most "cost effective" means of meeting their crewing needs...and rightfully so..one accustomed to commands and the like by date of hire and seniority are sure to not be impressed with the system in place at carriers here..I feel fortunate that my carrier has no desire/intent to hire DEC's although it has happened on occasion to fill the seats..it is not common practice...several colleagues have left my carrier and pursued greener pastures...different employers have different frustrations and the like... best find the set that suits you best..from two colleagues who went to the far east...they have encountered a whole different set of headaches over there, and personally I find the the situation here to be most desireable of all..despite the disappointments, the Gulf is by far the easiest expat life going these days...many EK pilots and others vent their frustrations here on Pprune, and so be it..we all have them..welcome to expat aviation...nowhere is perfect and if one finds it unbearable then best look after your sanity and that of your family and do the right thing...just think of taxes back home...at least the money you shell out to live here is toward yourself and your family...who gets the tax money you pay elsewhere???

and to the regional jet pilots and others...remember big shiny jets take you farther away from home on longer sectors across many time zones and subsequently destroy and likeness of circadian rythm you might have enjoyed at your regional job..so bear in mind when the big jet "honeymoon" is over...give it 3 months tops...you may find yourself sharing the same sentiments being voiced by others on this forum...careful what you wish for...you might get it...at the end of the day we fly airplanes so we can have a life...

ERJ145flyer

10th December 2006, 17:53

No I dont work at EK but in the gulf for 15yrs and a bit...many folks come here with hopes and reams of instant wealth, and a huge disposable income..and very quickly become disillusioned..it's simply not the case..you will need time after settling in, setting up the family before any disposeable income becomes apparent..many become disappointed by "shifting goalposts" at their employer as they seek the most "cost effective" means of meeting their crewing needs...and rightfully so..one accustomed to commands and the like by date of hire and seniority are sure to not be impressed with the system in place at carriers here..I feel fortunate that my carrier has no desire/intent to hire DEC's although it has happened on occasion to fill the seats..it is not common practice...several colleagues have left my carrier and pursued greener pastures...different employers have different frustrations and the like... best find the set that suits you best..from two colleagues who went to the far east...they have encountered a whole different set of headaches over there, and personally I find the the situation here to be most desireable of all..despite the disappointments, the Gulf is by far the easiest expat life going these days...many EK pilots and others vent their frustrations here on Pprune, and so be it..we all have them..welcome to expat aviation...nowhere is perfect and if one finds it unbearable then best look after your sanity and that of your family and do the right thing...just think of taxes back home...at least the money you shell out to live here is toward yourself and your family...who gets the tax money you pay elsewhere???
and to the regional jet pilots and others...remember big shiny jets take you farther away from home on longer sectors across many time zones and subsequently destroy and likeness of circadian rythm you might have enjoyed at your regional job..so bear in mind when the big jet "honeymoon" is over...give it 3 months tops...you may find yourself sharing the same sentiments being voiced by others on this forum...careful what you wish for...you might get it...at the end of the day we fly airplanes so we can have a life...

Sir, well spoken, I am humbled and accept my apology, also the previous fellow. I do not mean to attack or upset anybody here. I guess I am also venting off too, because I have been in this profesion so long also, and had my share of disappointments.

So, to sum it up, I am a pilot's guy, and any pilot who has put in his dues in this industry deserves the best treatment, respect, compensation and benefits....chin up. Thank you:ok:

Fogrunner

11th December 2006, 07:14

because I have been in this profesion so long also, and had my share of disappointments.
So, to sum it up, I am a pilot's guy, and any pilot who has put in his dues in this industry deserves the best treatment, respect, compensation and benefits....chin up. Thank you:ok:

I think many of us have been in this profession a while. Many of us have suffered disappointment, distress and delayed or shattered dreams. I went to flight school with a young guy, who on his return to the UK could not gain employment as a pilot. Mired in debt, his dream shattered (in his mind), he killed himself.
I have friends in the US who are far brighter, more intelligent and far better aviators than I shall ever be, who through no fault of there own, find themselves furloughed, downgraded, income decimated etc.etc.
I also know a few folks who couldn't fly there way out of a paper bag who earn a great deal more than I do and work less. Does it bother me? I guess in a way it does. Then again I go to work do the best job I can, enjoy the guy/gals I fly with and go home. Am I looking for something better? Sure!! Is Emirates it, I do not know. I have spoken to many on this board who graciously have taken the time to answer my questions. I think Captain America has done a great disservice to the US pilots who work and are interested in going to work at Emirates, by painting a picture of utopia.