KA & CX salary comparisons [Archive]

Mr Nice guy

8th May 2001, 08:54

Thank you all (BigtimeWannabe, a330)

Chk: KA is "Hong Kong Dragon Airlines"

Bigtimewannabe: Look time to see! How have you been... sorry to hear you never heard from them... i'm going through their process at the moment(still haven't failed yet after a couple of stages!).. it's taking yonks though... Btw, KA cadets do join the company as SOs but after some initial training on the A320 become first officers (no long haul flights means no need for SOs)

a330: Yes I am a HK PR... not exactly local though..hehe.. :) But, i still meet all the requirements...

Cyaz.

Btw, anyone got actual salary figures or knows where I could find some for myself?

Don Patrol

8th May 2001, 11:08

MNG, is that all you ever think about ...salaries, money etc. When I was just starting out, I was happy standin' by the airport fence sniffing Jet A. Worry about the money later, believe me you'll have 20 -30 years of it. Right now enjoy the aviation aspect of it.

Herb

8th May 2001, 11:48

KA Pilot to Chinese Landlord:
Can I live rent free this month please?

Chinese Landlord:.....Have you been standing at the CLK fence sniffing JetA or somefing!!
;)

Mr Nice guy

8th May 2001, 12:33

hi don patrol, i really do enjoy the aviation aspect of it all. Before you go on to say I don't actually like flying and that I only want to fly for money, hear this, I love aviation. But let's face it, there'll come a time when most of us will be getting married, having kids, buying houses, buying cars so on..., and that's when all the $$$ will come in very handy!! Wouldn't you agree?

DECU

8th May 2001, 19:56

MNG,

I totally agree with Don Patrol. You are not even in the door yet, and all you can think of is $$$. There is a long way to go before you will even make it to FO, so, get your act together and start asking more questions about the selection process, technical aspects, etc, before worrying about money and life style. If you dont even make it to the final stage and get accepted to the Cadet program, there will be NO MONEy at all.

Wannabes like you should be showing more interest in aviation. Fair enough, you said that you "love Aviation". Have you done any flying on your own? Got a PPL? Done anything at all that will help your chances of getting in with KA?

Before you start thinking I am a racist or anything, let me tell you that I am a local pilot who has made it thru hard work and motivation. And only now, after 5 years, am I starting to think about the money.

DECU

Mr Nice guy

8th May 2001, 20:39

Hi DECU,

Hi there. Nice to hear your opinions. Can I ask which airline you're in? Well I think it's good to plan ahead. I think a few people have slightly misunderstood my asking about salaries. I just basically want to know whether the career prospects in KA are as good as in CX? If I really end up flying for a living, I want to know that I'm flying for a company that will hold a bright future for me. I completely understand what DECU and Don Patrol are trying to say and respect your views but I hope you can see that I'm not that money minded!

DECU

8th May 2001, 22:20

Mr. Nice Guy,

Alright, fair enough, we all want a bit of stability in our lives and there is no harm in trying to plan your future.

However, I just wanna let you know, you will never be rich flying for an airline. You will earn a pretty good living, but nothing extravagant.

We are in this business because we love the job and we wanna get rewarded for it, but the rewards you get is nothign compared to doctors or lawyers, etc.

I wish you luck with your interviews with KA or CX, but please, try worrying about getting in the door before you start worrying about the money or any other issues. You must concentrate on getting hired first, and then getting through the training program, which i can assure you is not easy, and then after that, getting through the type rating course. And if you are still in the ball game after all this, which will take about 2 years, and get promoted to S/O, the basic salary will be $28000 per month. After about 1 year as an SO, and if you are still with it, you will be promoted to JFO, with a salary of about 38000 a month. 2 years as a JFO and then you get promoted to FO, with a salary of 55000 a month.

So, there you have it. Now that you know what the basic pay scales is for KA, try asking other questions which might help you get hired. And if you are really motivated, try gettign a head start on your career by taking a few flying lessons, get a part time job and sweep the hangar floors, wash airplanes etc. and stop worrying aobut the money or anything else until you are firmly in the door and have proven to KA that you are worth the money!Until you have paid your dues the only thing that should be on your mind is getting the job and surviving the training.

DECU

[This message has been edited by DECU (edited 08 May 2001).]

Kubota

9th May 2001, 00:42

Well said DECU.

One thing to add: Stay OUT of the politics till you're IN AND established.

SuperSandwich

9th May 2001, 05:33

Decu Well said!!
I think MNG you should try to do some flying, DECU said try to do a PPL or even try gliding which is a good basic intro to flying.

Yes there does come a time when everyone will thinking of getting married etc. but I guess it all depends on which you feel is more important getting the dream job you always have wished for and worked hard for or thinking about the luxuries that you want when you get paid the $$$ at the end of every month. I hope all goes well for all you guys trying to get into KA or CX, who really do want to have this dream job but those who are in it for the money, I have no time for. I have seen too many ppl who say "I had nothing better to do" Or " I saw the add in the SCMP so I applied for the the fun of it." MNG I hope all goes well. Woeey about getting in first. As the money is the least of your worries believe me as if you get in on the course you have 13-14 months of hard work and stress.

Regards
SS

smallwing

9th May 2001, 06:52

MNG, I didn't want to take a crack, but I have to. It is people like you that makes the flight deck scary. I can understand CX pilots not happy with management, as they have been there for a while and things were taken away from these pilots.

As for you, if you really thinking about money, you should go into the banking or law business. In aviation, we need someone we can depend on, with our lives. I would not want to be caught dead in the flight deck with you, while you are wondering how much you make that month.

Please don't take this too harsh, for our safety and yours, think about your future in aviation.

PS> As you say you are going through their selection, do realize that they do read PPRUNE and do have an idea who these people are!

Cheers.

Mr Nice guy

9th May 2001, 07:29

Hello again!

Supersandwich: If only I could afford some flying lessons...

Smallwing: Point taken.

I think I understand the general views here. Even without being told by anyone here, I know that the 2 years of initial training WILL be hard and also the working afterwards won't be easy either and that I might not even get in. But look at it this way, I don't want to risk putting in all this effort and hardwork only to realise in the future that both my family and I will have to 'struggle' with daily expenses. That said, given the salary scales that DECU has posted, I don't believe I'll have a problem. So in ending this post, I just want to say: YES I want to become a pilot because I just want to fly, but NO I will not be a pilot if doing it means my family and I will have to struggle with expenses. So, I hope everyone can see that I'm not actually greedy, merely trying to plan ahead.

smallwing

9th May 2001, 08:11

Most of us do not think of family until it becomes a situation. I am not that old and not ready to settle down until I get into a flight deck of an airline. Any airline.

Anyone can tell you how a lot of people came up in rankings. Paid for their own flying, WHILE holding a job. Do small things to build time, ie...tow banners, gliders and stuff. Getting a CFI to teach people to fly just for the hours, roughing it with small regionals (turboprops, loud sweaty cramped cockpits), bush flying and so on.

That is determination. Can any of us afford being a pilot? NO. But do we try? Hell yeah, coz that is what we want to do.

As mentioned by Sandwich, I think you really need to get into a cockpit for a familiarization flight, won't cost a lot, and see if you like it. If these airlines only pay 15K a month, would you do it? Or you would find something else?

Be what you REALLY wanna be, I would hope you don't feel like you entered the wrong field when you are aboard.

Take this msg like advice. Never ever mention money unless you are qualified.

Best Wishes

SuperSandwich

9th May 2001, 08:21

Nor could I afford lessons, a few years back but then I still manage to get some. Where there is a will there is a way. I guess you dont want to fly that badly after all??? ;)

No one said that becoming a pilot was going to be easy. How much hardwork have you put in??? I am sure some ppl have put in lots more than you, all around the world but still have no joy. I think you should consider yourself lucky to even get an interview. Your 'family' present/future should understand that they may have to struggle a little in order for your dream come true. Otherwise what is the point in having a dream? Is your dream to have an ordinary job that can support your family-to-be and to have a car a house??? Or is Your dream to have a job which you have always wanted since childhood and maybe think about house later, family way later and a car, a maybe ( if you are gonna live in HK) ??? As I have none of the above!!! as I cant afford it. I hope with a bit of saving here and there I can. It all come down to sacrafice!! How much are you willing to???

Regards!

smallwing

9th May 2001, 08:27

PS, since you have been thinking about family so much, you need to sit down a watch about 10 hours of plane crash events, read more about it and then ask yourself, "What if that happened to me? Can I hack it? What would happen to my 'family' then??"

It gets scary as you see literally people dying in front of your eyes. What would YOU do if you were flying the Mandarin MD-11 2 years ago?

Do you think about these things?? Maybe you should now.

Cheers

Mr Nice guy

9th May 2001, 09:13

Smallwing: Interesting point you put forward, "Would I work for an airline if the job only paid 15K a month".... very honestly NO. I think if I were to answer yes, then I would be one stupid person. There are perhaps many young or shortsighted people that would say yes, but if the job really only paid 15K a month, then I'm sure they will regret it when the time comes for them to support a wife and kids. Smallwing, I think you are thinking in a much too idealistic world, because in the real world, you can't really just 'do' something just because you like to do it. In my opinion, one needs to consider the various other factors involved both in the present and in the future. Let me ask you, would you do it for 15K a month? Let's say you were starting out to become a pilot, would you accept this low pay? I think for many who say they really want to become pilots they say this for 2 primary reasons:

1) They really do like flying;
2) They also see the 'possible' financial rewards in the future.

The 2 reasons above are definitely my reasons. To be really honest, I would rather be stuck with a job that I don't like as much than get a job that I do love doing but which pays me barely enough to get by. So I know you're asking yourself again, "how much does this guy like flying?". Well I'll tell you this, if I didn't like flying, why wouldn't I just get another job which:

1) Perhaps pays more;
2) Is more stable (in terms of flying everwhere all the time);
3) Is perhaps easier to get (afterall, becoming a pilot is no easy thing);
4) As mentioned, isn't as potentially dangerous as flying.

So you see, money isn't the main thing I consider when saying I want to become a pilot, it's just one of the things I do consider.

[This message has been edited by Mr Nice guy (edited 09 May 2001).]

SuperSandwich

9th May 2001, 09:50

huh? I thought it was a 'Free World'??

O MNG, where are you from?? Did you go to Uni??? The reason is in the UK where BTW is, there are gliding clubs etc. affordable prices and if you are/were in University, then there might have been something like a Gliding Club or something like Air Cadets which would be even more affordable. Just a thought. Oh BTW Dont give up!

Anyhows Goodluck!

Regards!
SS

sigma

9th May 2001, 13:32

A very very interesting and informative topic so far, it reminds me when I was in the process of selection but I never once gave thought to HK$.

If you are a truly aviation enthusiast, your reason in being a pilot is your passion of flying then you will automatically be motivated, have that drive, determination, commitment, enthusiasm, will not allow any problems to prevent you from and dedication in achieving your goals or objectives in order to be a pilot.

I tried very hard in doing so , persuading at the interviews to Peggy and FiFi but It did not work.

If the rumour is true that the people at Adelaide are not doing so well, then I question the selection procedure and the motivation for people training there.

I do agree there are many different reasons for people applying, many of which have been stated, glamour ?, money.

Mr Nice Guy, Good Luck and the very best to you. I hope you make it.

sigma

9th May 2001, 13:42

Mr Nice guy

9th May 2001, 16:41

Just to say thanks to all you who put in feedback to this post. From some of the posts, I can see some probable causes of the rumoured poor performances in ADL. I'm not sure if the selection process has anything to do with it, but I think that management is placing too much emphasis on how smart and intelligent their recruits are, and not enough on how enthusiastic their recruits are. We are all born differently and admittedly, some are smarter than others. Though I really do think that hardwork inspired by enthusiasm and interest in aviation can, and ultimately will, make up for it. I don't mean to hire really dumb people, but management should really place more emphasis on interest. This is what I think, please feel free to disagree!!!!!!

BigTimeWannabe

9th May 2001, 16:44

Come on guys, MNG is merely trying to gain some more background details about being a pilot. And we are here to help one another, not to try and stamp each other out.

I know that MNG REALLY wants to become a pilot because, like many of us, has been rejected by KA but is still persevering.

I say we try and give him a little encouragement!

SuperSandwich: Don't worry I won't give up that easily, and thanks for the encouragement!!! But unfortunately I can't join my Uni's RAF squadron, because I wear glasses!!! I did try, but that's the military for you!!!

Cheers guys

BTW

BigTimeWannabe

9th May 2001, 16:52

SuperSandwich: can you post your e-mail address on your profile please!

Cheers

BTW

smallwing

9th May 2001, 16:55

MNG, I have to intrude again and add my one sense..Heheheh

People in the US DO fly for less than 15k a month. When they start off in the regionals, they make only 1000usd, you do the math.

Why?? Because they want to be there, and they want the hours. You are talking about jumping straight into the right seat of a A-320/1 with KA or B744/A340 SO for CX. What more can a person want? Big planes, big engines, and high mach speed. You get perks, travel benefits (please no remarks from CX staff)and entitled to a bunch of paid leave.

WOULD YOU start off on a small turboprop, or even just a piston twin, carry cargo? I think not as YOU seem to think not worth it.

I personally don't care what cockpit I am in, from a two seater to the A380, but I will be happy anywhere.

So the situation is, is 15K do little and for some people to take jobs like that or paid less stupid? I sure hope not, but I do give them credit AND honor that they do try.

Like I said before, when you are counting your eggs before you get them, does not make the world turn. I am not a Professional Pilot yet, but with my last breath, if that is what will take, I will get there.

Money doesn't rule the world, it only lubes it up and let is spin better. You are better off buying a lottery ticket.

By the way, HOW MUCH aviation knowledge do you have? DO YOU know anything about these airlines? DO YOU read updating information? DO YOU try to learn about flying, perhaps buy a textbook? I am sure these things do consume time and a little bit of money, but buddy, it is well worth.

IF, you do not have any information, AND you make down south, I don't know if you are ready to absorb all that information. It is not 2 years, but 14 months.

Regards.

MNG:Smallwing, I think you are thinking in a much too idealistic world, because in the real world, you can't really just 'do' something just because you like to do it.

ps. Doing what we like to do is what makes this world goes round. I would not like to be stuck in something coz I have to do it. Would you MNG?
Oh, BTW, hear JAR standards are lifting up on eyesight requirements. Is your eyesight worse than -5 diopters? If not, you can consider doing LASIK and fly in Europe. BUT, I only heard this and cannot confirm as of yet.
Cheers, and Good Luck!

[This message has been edited by smallwing (edited 09 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by smallwing (edited 09 May 2001).]

Mr Nice guy

9th May 2001, 17:42

Smallwing, I think you have very successfully misunderstood me once again! :) To clear things up, if I had to START in General Aviation, small airacraft etc... and would be paid 15K a month for doing that, that's no problem. This is because I know I will have the chance for career progression in the future and that I won't be stuck on 15K/month for the rest of my life. I think you interpreted me as saying: "I will never ever accept a 15K job at any stage of my flying career"... that is not what I was trying to say.

One more small correction to make, I have not been rejected by KA yet! (BTW) Or perhaps BigTimeWannabe is just trying to predict the future!!

Kubota

9th May 2001, 18:09

MNG, I am not surprised that you haven't been selected for the CX cadet course. Personally, if I were rating you, I would say

ENTHUSIASM = 3
GREED = 9

What you need to get in is

ENTHUSIASM = 9+
GREED = Money? I get PAID to do this?

Consider that CX are willing to poney up over HK$1,000,000 for ADL, have you barely productive for over 3 years as a very green S/O while paying you HK$25K a month ++, (that's another HK$1,000,000) and then put you into the right seat of at least an A330, the LAST thing you (as a cadet wannabe) should be asking is "Btw, anyone got actual salary figures or knows where I could find some for myself".

Get real. Either come back with an ATPL and 2500 hours or shut up and take it with a smile on your face. CX owes you NOTHING.

sigma

9th May 2001, 19:58

I do read many aviation books,Trevor Thom PPL series, got Martin Willing's book, Syd's Pirates and Beyond Lion Rock.

Kubota, I agree with your rating on enthusiasm but I beleive it is not sufficient, I showed countless enthusiasm yet I failed. I do know my eyeisht is one of some problems.

Mr Nice guy

9th May 2001, 20:04

Kubota, of course they don't, no one owes me anything. But you see, it's not that I'm trying to bargain to get a better pay package, i'm merely wanting to know what kind of benefits I can expect to receive should I be selected and graduate. Just look at it like this, if the figures I requested look "too" bad, then i won't even bother applying. As another example, I think everyone who goes into an interview (for any job) would at least have a fair idea of what they expect to be paid if they are employed. Any prospective cadet should not be an exception. To be totally frank, I'm kind of surprised at the amount of negative comments I'm getting just because I requested some info on how much an airline pays it's pilots. And since some of you are so against me asking, what did you actually expect me to do? Let's say I do finish the course, am I suppose to find out how much I get paid just before I sign the contract? I mean, wouldn't it be wise to know how much you'll end up getting paid before you put in all the effort. As I mentioned before, money is NOT the most important thing but it is one of the areas which I, and probably everyone else, should take into consideration when choosing a career path.

Kubota

9th May 2001, 22:33

OK, point taken, but all the details are available from Peggy or T.P...you know who they are, right?

BigTimeWannabe

9th May 2001, 22:49

Sorry MNG, I thought you have been unsuccessful previously. I wasn't refering to this time round.

Sorry, got confused.

Good luck with the rest of your assesment. Have you got as far as flight grading yet?

BTW

BigTimeWannabe

9th May 2001, 22:54

......and Smallwing, thanks for the info. Checked out the CAA (UK) website, and the class one requirement is already -5 dioptres. Maybe I'll start saving up for both LASIK and flying. That is one tall order!!!!!

Cheers

BTW

Kubota

9th May 2001, 23:33

BTW, sorry to rain on your parade, but CX does NOT accept lasik treatment in initial applicants (s/o's or cadets).

1-stripper

10th May 2001, 00:12

Guys, go get a life.

Chunks

10th May 2001, 02:11

Hi Mr Nice guy

Just want to know when you applied for KA cadet scheme were you living overseas? And if you were did they pay for your travel expences? How old are you if you don't mind my asking? Do you have a degree?

Thanking you in advance.

Chunks

smallwing

10th May 2001, 02:33

MNG, before I begin, all the best towards your flight grading. Hope you get what you want, as I know millions of people do not get what they want everyday.

Not to be rude in bringing this point up is that, DA1 & 2 went down WITHOUT knowing how much they were making, BUT it was the prestige and love for flying that drove them. I am not saying that you do not show love in flying but you DO show that if the price is not right, you will not do it. You mentioned that yourself in the reply on this page. But I will try not to mention this anymore and as like everyone else, Best Wishes.

Sigma, are you with CX? I have seen your name popping throughout PPRUNE for the past couple of years. If not, how is your progress?

BTW, sorry to forget to mention that CX do not hire anyone without good eyesight. I just wanted you to know that there are chances for you to get a Class One and if you build your hours, can still enter direct. Can you leave an email add, I may be able to share more with you.

Guys, lets be frank. Who does not want to sit in the front seat, coming in for approach? Or be the ONE that flies the approach. I sure wish I can. All I have to say for those that are not there yet, never give up. There will be ups and downs but the struggle only makes the victory more sweeter!

Have a nice day.

BigTimeWannabe

10th May 2001, 04:59

Smallwing, my e-mail is correct on the pprune database. You can get it if you just click on my profile or the e-mail icon above this message(for future reference).

Here it is anyway: [email protected]

Hope to hear from you

BTW

Mr Nice guy

10th May 2001, 05:04

thanks for understanding kubota. Smallwing, that's right if the price is not right than I won't do it. On the other hand, if I knew for certain that I'd be staying single all my life(lets hope this won't happen), I would take the 15K/month job.... as with all the above people, best wishes to everyone.

To Chunks: They DO NOT pay for your travel expenses for any of the cadet selections. Now, I think you're REALLY expecting too much!! Correct me if i'm wrong pplz, but they don't even pay for your travel even for the 1st SO interviews but they do for the subsequent ones right? But definitely not the cadet one chunks. You can email me if you want to.

Cheers.

wishtobeapilot

10th May 2001, 08:03

Hello everyone,

This has been an informative and entertaining thread. Like many others, I have a great interest and passion for aviation. But when I was young, I made the mistake to not follow through on this dream. I'm 30 now and I've begun on digging into this passion of mine. (Is this what they call ‘bitten by aviation bug’ ?) I’ve read many book on avionics, weather patterns, accident case studies, and basically, anything relating to aviation. I buy every aviation magazines every month (pretty expensive in HK) and recently, been playing Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000 on my computer until 2 or 3 am which really p*sses off my wife. I believe myself to be an enthusiast and I’ve also applied to CX and KA (no reply yet).
But the point I’m trying to make is that many of us would also like to know how much airlines pay the pilots. I know that salary is a very sensitive issue but I stress that some of us are not THINKING of how much we can make but just to be informed of what the salary is like. It’s just like wondering how much Bill Gates make a month. I agree that the main focus should be concentrated on how to prepare ourselves for a career in aviation but knowing some side information on pay scales doesn’t hurt.
With all due respect, we look up to all you airline pilots to help (if you’re willing) guide us through the entrance to this hard-to-get-in industry. MNG was just asking a simple question with good intent regarding this industry. He shouldn’t be chewed up by so many of you. I don’t think about how much I can make nor do I wish to comment on the salary. But suppose I say I’d be willing to fly on $15,000 per month with CX or KA, I’d be chewed by many of you for not being professional and undermining or lowering the whole pay scale.

I thank all who understood that many of us wannabes are not only thinking of money, but to all others, I hope you can see things from our point of view.

PS To the 1-stripper who told us to ‘get a life’. This is a forum for everyone interested in aviation to exchange information and ideas. Unconstructive comments are unwelcome.

Mr Nice guy

10th May 2001, 09:01

Dear wishtobepilot, I think you'd be pushing it to try to get into the cadet program aged 30. (I hope I don't get beaten up for saying this) As said by Kuboto, the sponsoring airline spends a lot of money on each cadet and they'd expect at least the possibility of you staying and working for them for a good few years. Though, I think your post should inspire all of us still young to not give up our aviation dreams! Although you are probably a little old for the cadet program, there is theoretically no reason why you couldn't go overseas, get a licence and start working in GA to get your hours up. But by the time you get your the necessary experience, I wouldn't count on being hired by a major airline, probably a regional though. I think your situation is a perfect example of what I'm trying to say throughout this topic. You want to pursue your dream but you also have a family to worry about. Therefore, your 'dream' is not the only thing you must consider.

wishtobeapilot

10th May 2001, 10:44

Dear Mr. Nice Guy,

I'll admit what you say is true but I think the oldest cadet in CX was 32 (correct me if I'm wrong). However, I know age is an issue in my case. But hey, you don’t try, you don’t know. Hope is alive and someone eventually wins the lottery regardless of how slim the chances are.

But the truth is, aviation & flying is my passion. If, because of my age, I am only destined to fly regional or GA, I'll still be excited and happy. My hope and dream of flying for majors is that I’ll be able to combine my passion AND my career at the same time.

Cadet programs allows me get training while relieving me of the financial burden (not entirely but most of it). If this is not possible, then I will have to look for ways to self-finance my training elsewhere, possibly the States. Either way, I am determined to get the PPL, CPL, IR, etc. The latter is just a lot harder ‘cause of family and home mortgage payments (and in HK, the mortgage payments are pretty steep).

I’m a prime example to young people that if you’re serious about aviation, do it early. Don’t wait. I’m sure all pilots at CX or KA have worked their asses off and paid their dues. But it’s much better if it’s done early when you have less burden.

Girl Flying School

10th May 2001, 12:35

To sum up MNG's original question, if you want to get rich flying is not the way. Flying used to be a high paying career, the 70's & 80's were the golden days. Pan Am crews gets pay like brain surgeons and work only 45hr/mo, 7 days lay-over on Pacific flights!

With the current expansion in the airline industry, more jobs will be available but at the same time companies will want to control their bottom lines. As you can see, airlines like CX & KA will want to continue cutting their cost by driving the pilots salaries/benefits down. THIS FACT IS HERE TO STAY. Airline management will only answer to shareholders, welfare of their employees don't mean much now.

Having said all that, I can still tell you that being a pilot is a very rewarding career. You will still enjoy a comfortable living while being able to support your family. Remember the real money is to qualify for your PGA touring card!!

[This message has been edited by Girl Flying School (edited 10 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Girl Flying School (edited 10 May 2001).]

sigma

10th May 2001, 14:50

Smallwing,

I wish I was with Cathay or flying for any other airlines. No I applied twice, back in 96 and 00 , both times unsuccessful.
I am working at the moment at an airport at the moment, I have not applied ever since.

I know I fail the class one medical due to eyesight, but Its only with one eye, the other eye is more or less OK without glasses.

I might apply again but only if Peggy and Fifi are gone.

sigma

10th May 2001, 15:03

BTW, thanks for asking about me Smallwing, its very nice of you to.Regards
Ken

smallwing

10th May 2001, 16:38

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I feel like we are all riding through a hurricane, but now the storm is calming. We are all beginning to understand each other a little better. Apologies on my part concerning $$. Won't touch it anymore, as previously mentioned.

Wish, sorry to say the oldest cadet I knew was 29 when he joined. Ex-FA and heard he got it tight with KB. Please refer to this as a rumor and nothing else.

There are still lots of talks concerning pushing back the retirement age on flight crew, especially in the US. To me, I see that as unfair when SOME ARE fit to fly, but in a sense, an opportunity for people to be upgraded. Perhaps their knowledge is more beneficial in the SIM deck, or perhaps as a check pilot w/o TOL status.

Eyesight is a big limitation to Chinese. Who doesn't need to wear glasses? This concern is also being looked at all over the world as EU has changed their standards, and US/Oz are ok with corrected vision. Hope it will be better with HKCAD in the near future.

Also for Wish, I buy US Flying magazine, I find it fun and very educational. I do not know if HK has it, but I can tell you you waste a lot of money if just buying FLIGHT INT'L. You can find info on different airlines right from the net.

Keep your spirits up, we will all get there one day. Hope CX decides to buy the A380 over the Stretch (crap), so we can see some bigger jets landing at CLK!

Cheers!

PS Has anyone joined the HKAC?? Just checking. Also they do a lot of radio flyers out in NT, hope I can do it too, if I have money and the time.

[This message has been edited by smallwing (edited 10 May 2001).]

wandrinabout

10th May 2001, 17:37

Sorry guys, can someone just confirm this for me. Did someone state that entry to KA was for locals or those with PR? or was that just for the cadet scheme?
I've been on file with them for some time with no response.....patience is a virtue they say. I am considering going there to show my face sometime soon.
Thanks.

Mr Nice guy

10th May 2001, 19:10

just to answer the previous poster's question, no you don't need PR status to apply for KA if it is direct entry you're talking about. Definitely YES for the cadet scheme though.

Ben&Jerry

11th May 2001, 06:50

The eldest cadet was turning 30 when he was in ADL, he is now 34, S/O on A340.

I have seen S/O with age 38, so it is not too late to join at 30, but perhaps it is too late to start a new career if you already have one.

MNG: Don't have to worry about pay too much, it will have enough money for food. No matter how you look at it, if you successful, you will receive the least money anyway (local scheme!)

wishtobeapilot

11th May 2001, 08:08

Thanks to Ben&Jerry for the reply.

Like I said, I know age is an issue in my case but flying is what I really want to do and if I can combine that with my day-to-day job, so much the better.

"You don't try, you don't know"

Mr Nice guy

11th May 2001, 09:15

Ben&Jerry, I'm not really worrying about money.... i knew all along that it would be enough... The main reason I asked was to get a more exact idea of the compensation package.

Wishtobeapilot, I hope you can achieve your dream. Best of luck.

Ben&Jerry

11th May 2001, 10:40

MNG: KA has the better package, period. As S/O can do the TO/Landing and start logging hrs under P1. There are alot of sectors which keep the brain functioning.

CX may have a higher paid, but average 3 yrs 8 months as S/O (no TO/Landing), 10 yrs as FO and who knows if there will be any Local Capt. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

Mr Nice guy

11th May 2001, 11:54

"KA has a better pay package, period"
"CX has higher pay"

CX is higher paying? I'm just kind of lost here you see, people from all around have been telling me that KA pays more but now someone says CX pays more. Now let's not get into this $$$ argument again, but just which one pays more?

Perhaps a more important question than the previous one:
As a prospective local cadet pilot, which airline (KA or CX) would you join considering ALL factors?

Of course this is assuming you had a choice ("yeah right!") but just say if you could choose....

I think most of us here are on the same boat so I'd love to hear some choices.

[This message has been edited by Mr Nice guy (edited 11 May 2001).]

smallwing

11th May 2001, 17:04

MNG, let me explain it to you.

As last that I have seen, CX cadets join with 33K rough, and because of 99 dispute, got a 3% raise per annum for 3 years (my figures are not totally correct). CX will definitely pay better than KA, also getting outport allowances and see more places, in which KA only has two overnight ports.

KA on the other hand, I do not know the amount they make as SO, but I hear they finish conversion training within 6 months and do sit right seat with a check pilot.

With CX, you will be riding in the back perhaps over 4 years as SO (the way things look right now). If you know about the ULH flights, they require 4 crew, and with having an SO, 2 FO and a captain, they save a bundle compare to the standart 2 Cap, and 2 FO.

B&J, how is it that the SO log P1 for right seat and not P2? I am a little confused with that? (CX SO log P2X, which in terms do not really account for anything anywhere else)

Hope this will help your understanding, and to the people that knew this already, please dismiss this post.

PS. I heard from that SO's gf that he was 29 when he joined. Maybe he is lying about his age?? HHahhaha, and he hasn't been upgraded to JFO, so been riding shotgun for 4 years.

Cheers

PPS. MNG, is that why you went for KA interview? Coz you heard it was more dough? Have you tried CX? Just curious.

[This message has been edited by smallwing (edited 11 May 2001).]

Mr Nice guy

11th May 2001, 17:59

here we go again... no i didn't try KA for the money. The chance just came up and so I gave it my best shot.

Mr Nice guy

11th May 2001, 18:05

Just wondering smallwing, which KA outports have overnights?

Ben&Jerry

11th May 2001, 21:58

Smallwing: you are absolutely right, logging P2X for S/O in CX but for KA S/O because they are under training, they will log as P1U/T (under training) and subsequently P1U/S (under supervision) until they get command (P1).

For the Mr 29 S/O, his youngest classmate I heard was 18. Oh, u know her gf?!? :)

Since pilot retirement age is being regulated by law, and cannot be extended unlike lawyers or doctors whom they can worked until their deaths. Joining at younger age will give a bigger lump sum of pension. For example, based on a 7% return, joining at the age of 24 will have doubled the amount compare to 30.

MNG: Go for KA smaller Co, less politcs. Money different is minium. :)

Mr Nice guy

12th May 2001, 05:04

B&J, my gut feeling agrees with you :)
One very attractive thing KA does offer is that they have already promoted many of the earlier cadets to captain rank. I'm not even sure if CX ever intends to do that...

smallwing

12th May 2001, 16:50

CX will have a local captain soon. How soon.....when pigs fly.. Hahhaha.

Seriously, some of them are up there, but a lot of expats still waiting for command...within these next two years, I bet.

Ben&Jerry

12th May 2001, 18:39

SW: You are absolutely right. There may not be any local captain in CX, I don't think those CX expat hardliners will ever want to fly with a local FO, not to mention local Capt.

MNG: Go for KA, at least you know if you work hard, you will have command in one day!

It is very sad that CX cadets are being judged by the color of there skin, not there skills. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

HUSTLER

12th May 2001, 19:51

411A,

I see you have had a name change,

in our eyes your still a SOG.

I promised myself I would'nt respond to any more of your post's but I have to ask you (I've restrained myself for a week), If (as you say) you are truly an EX SQ Captain, why do take such pleasure in seeing the demise of your own profession??

My only conclusion is, after thrashing it out, is that you are either a Liar, a Scab, Swire Bottler, or current management, either way **** OFF!!

PS Dear moderator, if you see fit to intervene, PLS only the last 2 words ( we have had a gut full of this prick )

PPS I really think its time to have our own secure site!!

[This message has been edited by HUSTLER (edited 12 May 2001).]