Lion Air accident at Solo, Indonesia

[Dr Dave]

Apparently an MD-82 of Lion Air crashed at Solo in Indonesia at 7 pm on Tuesday 30th November. Reports are that it left the runway on landing and split into two. At the time of writing reports vary between 6 and 10 fatalities, and 24 injuries.

Dr Dave

[Biggles Flies Undone]

Channel News Asia (http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/119918/1/.html) reporting 12 fatalities. Have heard unconfirmed reports that it might be more.

[an-124]

SKY NEWS REPORT (http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13257951,00.html)


Sky news says at least 23 dead

[swh]

Listed as 23 in this thread http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=154028

[PK-KAR]

continuing on: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=154008

It's now 31 dead. F/O Steven from Suriname was reported to have died. He's heavily injured in hospital, and 1 F/A also heavily injured. Other crew light injuries only.

http://www.ansa.it/main/notizie/awnplus/mondo/med/epa30yh3X_20041130.jpg

Some witnesses now saying aircraft landed 1/2 way down the runway. Conflicting reports saying that it initiated a Go-Around too late and aircraft touched down and you know the rest...

Lion flies 19 MD82s on one of the last counts, and 2 734s...
Subsidiary Wings fly 3 DHC-8-300s... Rumours say they got 5.

They blew 1 DHC8 engine a couple of years back.
Their 732 crashed and got written off a couple of years back (2001?)

Their MD82s have problems... Rear airstairs keep falling down according to secondary sources. Lion has slipped many times off the runway here but the news normally gets covered up. This time, they can't... Plus one Lion engineer has been rumoured to refuse to fly on Lion due to their "maintenance policy"... Plus Lion lost their FedEx contract a while back due to failures in safety and security procedures.

This is an airline with many sins... Pilots fly 120hrs a month but only log 90... You don't land due to weather and expect the CEO to call you on your cellphone asking you to get your butt to the destination regardless of weather... etc etc etc... These are undocumentable events unfortunately, but go and take a couple of Lion guys to a bar, buy them drinks, and what comes out of their mouths sound like a real nightmare.

This is just an accident waiting to happen.

PK-KAR

[Cap Loko]

PK KAR please check PM

thanks

[2aruba]

F/O Steven from Aruba is Ok! Stop bull!!!!ting that he did not survive.

Go Steven! hope everyhting works out fine. Aruba is with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PK-KAR]

F/O Steven from Aruba is Ok! Stop bull!!!!ting that he did not survive.

Sorry mate, that was what was originally reported. Just got confirmation that this F/O is "Steven" from Suriname, in hospital sustaining heavy injuries.

PK-KAR

[Cap Loko]

KAR, again, thanks for the info.

Wishing the best for those involved.

[Bad Boy 69]

2 Aruba,

Please Check your PM,

Kind regards,

[RoyHudd]

Solo should be a Cat C field. Certainly not the place for amateurs, with severe weather, 2 proximal active volcanoes, no radar, poor regional ATC, and no adequate fire support. The Lion accident sounds regrettable but inevitable. Flames please.

[TAC On]

Roy dickHudd.

Taking your statement to its logical conclusion, you would brand American Airlines and their (then, but now deceased) MD80 chief pilot, as amateurs, would you?
(If you have forgotten: Charlotte, North Carolina about 3 years ago, [ if my memory serves me correctly] )

Sometimes it pays to wait a while before pontification. The feeling often passes, before you say anything foolish.

TO

[Flyingphil]

TAC,

I think you mean Little Rock/Arkansas 1999 when the AA-Chief-Pilot for the MD80 and some pax died while skidding of the RWY and crashing into the airports' fence (or kind of that)?


The reports' finding is (wiz other words) that the hardheaded crew tried to land instead of returning to Chicago after failing several attemps of approach due to weather.
This was kind of an "Amateuer-Fault" nobody expected from a check-airman to be done.
But unfortunately it happened :(

I think most Pilots would have diverted and would still be with us!


Phil

[RoyHudd]

TAC on. What an extraordinary posting.

My reference related primarily to the dangers of Solo airfield, (WRSQ) which I am familiar with. And also to the low lvels of experience of crew operating for Lion, again known to many of us.

Please engage your brain before posting offensively. Thank you.

[Freehills]

The wife of the poor dead captain has been interviewed to say that this was her husband's last flight for a while - he had promised her to take some holiday - and that he had been so busy flying the last month or so, she had hardly seen him.

Given that November is peak season in Indonesia, will be interesting to see what roster he had been flying. JT pilots are worked extremely hard

[PK-KAR]

Given that November is peak season in Indonesia, will be interesting to see what roster he had been flying. JT pilots are worked extremely hard

See my earlier post regarding this !

TACon,
Jumpseat a couple of flights over here, and then do some of the airports overhere in rainy season... You'll see what RoyHudd means. Lion's crew are mostly inexperienced on the type due to their rapid expansion! The Capt. of this flight just commenced flying with Lion about 4 months ago. Though I am not putting his experiece as a factor, Lion's management pressures surely would put extra demands on his skills, nomatter how high!

PK-LMN has many problems, one of which is no APU serviceable. Hence they hotstop in Solo and doesn't refuel. Add this "policy" with weather, and you can expect a couple of tonnes extra fuel on it... slap it on a wet runway, and an unofficial Lion policy of "if THR REV deployment result in excessive yawing, recycle it by adding forward thrust before applying THR REV again."

Many of my friends regard working with Lion as "eventual suicide".

On the same day, there are rumours that a Bouraq landing in nearby JOG at around the same time was "vectored" into a mountain! The crew refused to obey the ATC, even other aircraft who was in the area that was the original factor for the Bouraq to be vectored into the mountain told Bouraq "don't do it!"... Lucky the Bouraq F/O kept terrain awareness in the blinding rain!

The Capt. and his crew marched to the tower and a fight ensued with the ATC (junior whose supervisor went missing)... This was almost a repeat of GA152 in Medan in 1997!

This still needs confirmation though...

RoyHudd, low level radar service in Solo is provided by JOG approach... However, this is not always the case!

Back to the LION...

From the mouth of a Lion CA that went to Solo later that evening...
Capt. found dead upside down under one of the wings. F/O in hospital, the engineer on board also died. CA1 and another F/A died. Lion originally thought the CA1 survived because when they called her cellphone, they heard... "Oh God, it hurts! It's painful!"... Unfortunately, one of her friends realised that this was her mail box and notified the airline that she's dead.

PK-KAR

[catchup]

Pure horror! That's heavy stuff.

[Dogs_ears_up]

Can anybody explain how the final paragraph in PK-KAR's last post above (detailing crew body locations etc.) develops the discussion in any way beyond rubbernecking?

[BlackCat01]

I have some questions regarding MD-80s. If PK-LMN had no serviceable APU, is it reason enough to ground the aircraft? Don't they need APU to restart the engine incase of engine shut down in the air?

I watched the news clip on tv. When the news crew arrived on location there was a high-pitched sound in the background. It seemed the engines were still running. That was the first time in my life I didn't want to hear a jet engine sound :(

[catchup]

I'm not familier with the MD 80, but on the commercial aircraft I've flown the APU was n't minimum equipment. But I've also never refueled with engine running, whitch is legal.

regards

[PK-KAR]

Dogs_ears_up...
Just passing on what I heard...

Anyways, a camera crew was inside the aircraft and took footage while he was evacuating.

Rear cabin section was undamaged fromt he inside, and that's where most of of the survivors were... It is strange that despite the engines still running, albeit pulsating, and the cabin crew telling people to evacuate for fear of explosion, there are still those who tried to grab everything they had before leaving the aircraft through the window exits (despite the engines still running, they had no other way out anyways).

It was a bit of a gruesome footage. People on the front section crushed and calling for help etc... They've now edited a lot of the footage because it was a bit too horrific... :(

Kudos to the Cabin crew at the back.

PK-KAR

[Casper]

WRSQ Usually a downwind component on R/W 26 ILS - no instrument approach R/W 08. Add a thunderstorm to the mountainous terrain nearby and it becomes a demanding exercise. At least, the runway was extended some years ago and an ILS added - it used to be pretty tight.

WAAA Similar situation. No instrument approach for R/W 31 and nearly always a tailwind on the R/W 13 ILS. Plus a lot of rubber!

[Bad Boy 69]

It is exteremly sad to see what has happened.
With other words,I have expected one of these days,a worse accident with Lionair.

I sincerely believe,PIC experience,Management intimidation & pressure exposed on the Flight Crew has played a Mayor role in this accident.
I have heard stories where,Management would threaten pilots if they dont land at their destination,regardless of the Bad Weather at that point in time.Contracted Captains whom would not stay longer than a few weeks after analyzing,the poor and no maintenance that was performed on the A/C's.

Landing a MD80,during heavy rain,close to Max.Landing weight,short runway,you better know,what you are doing,otherwise this is the kind of situation,you might end up with.
Captain(RIP) first PIC job,after being 4 Months as an F/O on the MD80,with Lionair,has recently been uprgaded.Prior to Lionair,was an F/O on the F28.

Combination of late Touchdown,High Approach speed,Hydroplanning,Excessive Reverse Trust(Which would "Blank out" the Rudder,and cause Loss of Directional Control) could have heavily contributed to this accident.

Runway conditions in Indonesia are very poor,Heavy Rubber deposits,holes,you name it.

Before analyzing the Flight Recorders,authorities(Indonesian CAA) are ready to blame the Inclement Weather Conditions.
They should blame themself,in the first place for allowing Lionair to operate,the way they do,by jeopardizing the safety of their crew & passengers and breaking all rules & regulations,involving Training,Maintenance of A/C's.
Unless that there is a certain Compensation,exchanging hands?????This Kind of Practise is not Uncommon in Indo.

I sincerely hope that Lionair,will look after the families of the victims & the ones whom are hospitalized.
It appears that Lionair is more concerned of losing sales as a result of the SOLO Accident,than coming up to their resposibilties & liabilities as an airline,during this crisis.

By the way,on a previous posting,on the MD80,you can defer the APU for dispatch,and you can restart an engine if its windwilling when airborne.
Some airlines have a procedure to keep the Left Engine running at stations where,no Ground Equip.is available & in case Refueling is required.

Lets hope that Lionair Management learns their lesson from this accident,this time.
Because from the previous Incident where Lionair Over Ran the runway in Ujung Pandang,a year ago,I have not seen any improvement & history has repeated itself.

I am not a Lionair Hater,but concerned for the safe Operation & Transport of passengers.
And do not appreciate when Safety is jeopardized & taken for granted,in oder for operators to fill their pockets.

Trust me,Lionair is not the only airline,that has a pirate operation in INDO.


Cheers,

[PK-KAR]

For those of you who wants to see more pics of the aircraft...

Taken the day after the accident.
Even for Lion Haters... it's a sad sight :(

All Picture courtesy of IndoFlyer.net news section
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/baronfh/Panasonic%20FZ20/1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/baronfh/Panasonic%20FZ20/2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/baronfh/Panasonic%20FZ20/5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/baronfh/Panasonic%20FZ20/6.jpg

landing Gear left where it is...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/baronfh/Panasonic%20FZ20/7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/baronfh/Panasonic%20FZ20/9.jpg

Photos courtesy of Indoflyer.net

*sigh*

PK-KAR