B727 Captains Wanted by Rishworth

[STOKKEN]

I have just been browsing through the Agencies Website, as we all do just to see if there is something eyecatching there, and there was. Rishworth need B727 Crews and they will pay you the princely sum of US$ 3,800 per month for that privilege. I mean are they real, having the gall to put that figure there in black and white. I know some of us need jobs, but pleeease don`t insult our professionalism. The B727 may not be the New Generation of aircraft but get real Rishworth. For most pilots I presume it is better to sit put and claim unemployment benefit.
:( :( Very very sad day when it shows that Airlines and now Agencies feel that we are such worthless creatures

[birdbrain]

Yep, I would do that... but, would I have to be type rated 'n instrument rated 'n have multi aswell ??
an, an, .. would I have to give up the day job ???

Would they look for the cheque EVERY month ??:{

[eal401]

So, £25,000 p.a. is a bad salary is it?

:mad:

[Flypuppy]

Considering that truck drivers in the UK earn at least the same and often more, or that top earning train drivers with Virgin and EWS earn in excess of £60,000 I would say that £25k for the captain of a jet transport is absolute pants.

[eal401]

top earning train drivers with Virgin and EWS earn in excess of £60,000
I take it back.

Wonder if Virgin are hiring.......

[Flypuppy]

and they dont even ask for the train driver to pay for a type rating ;)

[eal401]

It's getting better and better!

Those Pendalino cabs look quite comfy too. :)

[DFC]

Gone are the days when being well paid was being paid enough to be comfortable and a bit more.

Today people only considder themselves well paid if they earn more than the next guy.

Keeping up with the Jones' gone mad.

£25,000 isn't a bad income if one has the lifestyle to match. It may not be enough to Captain a B737 but saying that a train driver receives X amount makes little difference because for every person being paid more than the average pilot, there are 1,000 being paid a lot less.

Perhaps we should point out that while 25,000 may be rubbish for a pilot to haul boxes round the sky?, we trust teachers with our children's current and future well being while paying them a fraction of that amount.

Regards,

DFC

[Flypuppy]

we trust teachers with our children's current and future well being while paying them a fraction of that amount.

My wife is a teacher in Holland - if she were to work full time she would be paid considerably more than £25k. Teacher's pay scales in England & Wales for 2003 (http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/paysite/PART4.cfm)

The parallels with a train driver are reasonable as they are both safety critical jobs that carry a significant amount of responsibilty for the safe, economic and comfortable carriage of goods and passengers.

Considering the amount of personal sacrifice, both financially and emotionally to become a pilot, plus the amount of experience required to act as a commander on an aeroplane I would say that 25k is verging on an insult - but then I would say that wouldn't I?

[daw]

And lets not forget London Tube drivers on a starting salary of circa £30k.

[doubleu-anker]

Please remember Rishworth is an NZ agency. Salaries there, are relatively low and always will be.

[five iron]

USD3800?????? Is that for a day or a week?:confused: :}

[niknak]

As doubleu says, it appears that the salary offered is based on NZ rates, if that's what the market dictates then so be it, if they don't get any suitable applicants I assume they'll have to increase the pay.
As with most agencies, they'll quote potential employees the bottom line because that gives them their maximum profit margin, and if you've got the balls to argue, they'll work it up from there.

Its not slave labour, and no one is forcing anyone to apply.

[fiddlair]

I can tell you one thing guys...
I've been working in Indonesia on 737E for 5250 USD/m, for 3 months, and they've got people through Rishworth for 3800 ( I mean captains) and they let us go...
This job is probably in Indonesia as well. If you get accomodation and transportation, you can spare some 3000 cause life is really cheap there and flying is challenging and the country is beautyfulllll......... Not to speak about women........

[JJflyer]

It is Indonesia indeed... Regardless how you will be able to live there with that salary, most people have "Baggage" back home that carries a certain monetary monthly penalty. These might include wife, kids, schooling, house payments, car payments etc.

This salary offered by Rishworth does not compare with any western standard, but there are countries where cost of living and salaries are a lot lower than say in Europe. Pilots from these lower end markets might actually find the pay "Appealing" rather than "Appalling".

JJ

[CargoOne]

$3800... Is it take home or before tax?
If that's what you taking home in Indonesia then your lifestyle will be equivalent to JAL or UA senior captain on a 747

[Kaptin M]

If that's what you taking home in Indonesia then your lifestyle will be equivalent to JAL or UA senior captain on a 747 Only for as long as you are living in Indonesia, and unlike "JAL or UA senior captains", you won't have the money left over at the end of the year to purchase a condo in another country.

If Rishworth are still operating at the same "skim" level they were a few years ago, chances are they are scalping USD1,500 - 2,000 per pilot, per month.
Not bad for doing ZILCH, once the crews are in place. :mad:

The salary is an insult to ANY pilot, regardless of which country he comes from.
Additionally, Indonesia still experiences terrorist bombings, aimed at foreigners - it is probably only a matter of time before the kidnappings and murders start there.

[Anti Skid On]

Emm....

Supply and demand - lots of available pilots, not many jobs......

[Kaptin M]

There are PLENTY of jobs going, and ALL paying far, far more than this trashy salary.

[coopervane]

When you think about it, sitting up the front on a west coast 125 Virgin Pedulino is probably far more comfortable and prestiduous than flying night freight or a low cost.

Coupled with the high technology and the number of passengers you are responsible for, maybe the rail industry is going to leave the airlines behind.

Apart from leaves on the line and the wrong kind of snow, you don't need to worry too much about minima, charlie bravos,slots,diversions,holding or indeed getting lost!

60k sounds good for a few high speed jolly's down to London and the C.V. is in the post!

You even get a better travel deal for your family. Mind you thats not hard to beat as most airlines offer less of a deal than you can get off the net.

Train driving..........Its the future!!!!

Coop & train spotting bear

[SandLat650]

A few years ago I looked at a Far Eastern contract that was being offered by 2 agencies; Rishworth was one and the other was from somewhere in Australia, sorry forgotten the name.

The contract from each was broadly the same except the Rishworth one paid about US$ 1500 to 2000 less.

I suspect the airline concerned paid the agencies roughly the same, but Rishworth took a larger cut.

Draw your own conclusions, but I'm not sure I'd knock on their door again. I'd always be left wondering......

[CargoOne]

Kaptin M

Well, what is your point?
You should admit that salaries for any position are always have connection to average salary of the country in question.
There are examptions like foreign top managers etc who may in fact earn more in Dark Africa than in England.

Still if we are talking about $3800 take home per month in Indonesia, that's more than Garuda and Merpati (first and second biggest Indonesian airlines) are paying. Maybe something has changed in last 2 years, I've been there in 2002.
And for example F27 or Twinotter captain in private small Indonesian airline, who flying short sectors aross mountains and islands is paid less than $1500 per month. However they have a lot of pilots waiting opportunity to join them.

I'm not very familar with US market but I've heard that US regional airline pilots are getting about the same money (ca $60k), isn't it?

If you can get (or have) a better job then go for it. But there are hell a lot of pilots who happy to earn $3800 a month.

[b777900]

Stay well clear of Companies like Rishworth.

They recieve your CV, pass it on to the Company, issue a contract, and take your money. If you have any greivance, they will not lift a finger to help you, they have too much to lose.

A company in Asia has recruited 70 pilots through Rishworth.. Each for a years contract before they go on a local contract.

70 pilots x 12 months x Ave 2750 NZD a month = $2,300,000 NZD, all for forwarding your CV on to the Airline. I doubt Rishworth is getting all of that, Senior Airline Management gets their cut too.

Why would any reputable airline employ through an Agency, its just a way for corrupt management to get their cut without been caught.

[Atlanta-Driver]

For those that are willing to fly the ole threeholer on that salary, I say: Go for it boys. You won't know what to do with all that money...

I am just qurious how many of you guys aswering this post are actually current&qualified in the B727. I am and won't work for that salary.

AD

[411A]

Gotta ask, AD, just what makes you actually worth more?727 pilots are a dime a dozen.

[TAC On]

411 you can't read.
He didn't say he was worth more, or that he is better than anyone taking on the position. He said he won't work at that for that money.
More power to him.

[SeldomFixit]

It took 2 pages but like it or not, 411A has once again nailed it.
The glory days are gone. Memories of the once huge ( always unjustifiably so in the case of what most refer to as the "A" scale days ) salaries, are just memories.
This discussion when revisited in 10 years from now will make the 3 holer salary look like a King's ransom.

[MercenaryAli]

Well I guess we could learn to kick a bag of wind around a field for 90 minutes, it can't be difficult because even David Beckam can do it, then we could command a £zillion a week!! and would not have to fly for some third world outfit for peanuts!!

[Atlanta-Driver]

1. Nope I do not think I am worth more than others. I just wont work for that money.

2. B727 drivers are no longer dime in a dozen. Try to find B727 people in the first world that make less than the salary offered my Rishworth and are willing to leave their jobs. Even Companies like Ameristar etc in US pay their Captains more.

3. Rule of thumb: Pay peanuts, get monkies!!!

4. Good old times are over, still that does not mean that pilots have to accept all the BS that is dished out for us.


AD

[josephshankes]

Yes and that agency also or certainly was recruiting for Pacific Blue.

Now if the money that is reputed to "stick" to their fingers, went to the pilots, then it would be a reasonable deal, even for NZ.

Not knocking NZ, but the cost of living is slightly less than eg. some countries in Europe.

[Ty Webb]

I can`t believe this is even an issue! This paltry sum is typical of of this sort of mob, they are an example of the worst that the industry has to offer! Absolute Filth!

[fedup]

Really some of you guys ought to just change what you do for a living, you all think that the world owes you a living and that you deserve more than anyone else. The hard truth is that salaries are not what they were. No one complained a few years ago when salaries were high. All this talk of how much financial and emotional work went into getting a licence............stop crying, either take the job at 3800usd or DONT

[jetrider]

Guys, dont forget that this pricley sum includes all your perdeims aswell

[coopervane]

Hey Fedup, I agree with you to a point but there's taking the p*ss and taking the p*ss!

Coop & Taking the p*ss bear

Just for info..........Flying the 72 through Airline Appointments for Swiftair/DHL was paying (F/E F/O) around £4800 per month for about 80 hours flying.

Captains on about £6k+
Free hotac and generous allowance.
Three weeks on two off.
Payed flights home.

Who says flying the old and bold have to put up with toy town money.
A contract is designed to be short so the money should reflect that.

Coop & $$$$ Bear

[Whiskery]

Jack's never been a big payer :sad:

[FarQ2]

Rishworth absolute :mad: :mad: ts!

Few years ago was offered an MD80 job through those p:mad:cks --- USD3500 per mth, told them I wouldn't even think about it unless it was $5000 + per diem.

Negoitiated my own contract with another firm. Now on much more than Rishworth offer + Per Diem + Accomodation + Transport.

DIY :ok:

[doubleu-anker]

Whiskery

Captain Jack P*****, thank you very much.

[Iakklat]

I know of a guy who went to the states and purchased a wide body boeing endorsement to enable themselves to apply for a job in the far east with an airline that used the services of this "mob".
After successfully gaining employment through this agency with this airline he was then "bonded" by Rishworths even though he had purchased through his own finances the endorsement.(work that out)
Having not flown the aircraft he was then required to do ccts which cost him thousands of USD again out of his own pocket.
Whilst all of this was going on Rishworths were taking a portion of his salary as a scalping fee.Thankfully this guy got a job with a reputable airline .Bye Bye Dishworths ;)

[DownIn3Green]

JJ Flyer...check your PM's...

[Fastmover321]

Having spent almost my whole flying career to date as a contract pilot (but never employed by Rishworth) I have a few observations to make...

1) If you register with an agency (there is of course no obligation to do so), you will get contacted by them for all positions they feel are relevant to you (even the sh:mad: e ones). So there is no point getting your knickers in a twist if you don't like what they have to offer...just say NO. If you do not wish to be contacted by them at all then tell them so.

2) The pilot community is subject to the same laws of supply and demand as any other profession. Pay rates/conditions should reflect this...if they don't then the Airline will not find enough crews to fly their aeroplanes. To illustrate this point I have just had to pay a car mechanic £400 for half a day's work!!! For example differences between average pay rates in JAR states and the rest of the ICAO community can be substantial (rightly so). This is also influenced by the higher cost of living in Europe.

3) In my experience, 'good' agencies will work hard to negotiate decent pay rates. After all if they do not attract the required candidates then they don't make any money at all, so taking a bigger 'cut' does not actually make any sense. So if Rishworth are doing this they are not very smart. The agency take their fee and that is that. If you dont like the figure they offer (whatever their cut) then dont sign the contract.

4) Iakklat...surely the very fact that this guy got a job with a reputable airline after paying for his training (and by circuits I presume you mean base check) justifies this expense? Why should an airline type rate, carry out a base check and complete line training for a contractor with no experience on type? I was fortunate enough to have a type rating provided but know full well that if I were looking career advancement today, investing in a type rating would be something that I would seriously have to consider. I of course presume that Rishworth made him fully aware of the terms and expected expenditure before he started his training.

Better the devil you know.


:ok:

[Iakklat]

Fastmover yes i mean base check.
Again if this guy paid for the endorsement himself and the base check himself how can Rishworths then place a financial bond on top of all that?

Rishworths havent funded a cracker towards his training at all.The guy then gets a job somewhere else(not with the contracted airline through Rishworths) and now they want a bond payout(Rishworths)for what?
I just find the whole deal extremely grubby .

[Fastmover321]

Hi Iaaklat, if the airline completed his line training then there may have been a financial penalty if he left the airline before completing his contract. As a line trainer myself I know it costs a lot of money and takes a great deal of effort to line train new pilots. This cost and effort is commercial risk to the airline, especially as the pilot is non-productive whilst undergoing such training (due to the presence of a safety pilot). In a previous employment I worked for an airline that hired self-sponsored first officers. Their line training was provided. These first officers had to fly for a set minimum period with the airline so that it could recover it's investment. Such pilots were subject to a financial penalty for not comleting the set minimum contract (post line training). Therefore, it is likely that the bonding element of his contract reflects this risk. I would imagine that in scenarios where agencies are involved, such risk is passed on to them and hence on to the contractor. This should have been clearly laid out in his contract with Rishworth - up-front.

All I can say is that anybody should think very carefully when considering such a contract (knowing the facts) and not commit unless they are prepared to go the distance. There are other options available (that typically include base training but not line training) as ratings can be purchased directly from third parties such as GECAT and CAE for most types.