Crap student headsets / long term hearing loss

[Luke SkyToddler]

Hi people ... a little problem for you to advise me on if you could.

My trusty and reliable Dave Clarke 10-13-4 works fine in about half the fleet of company C152s. However, in the other half of them (the ones with the original Cessna radios and intercoms) I can't use them because I can't hear my students at more than a whisper when they're using the company provided student headsets (Telex Echelons). Something to do with the higher impedance on the DC's microphone, I'm told. I can hear the students OK if I wear telex's as well.

Needless to say it is really p!ssing me off having to wear company headsets half the time, the ambient noise level and no-comfort factor is outrageous and I end each day with a thumping headache. The avionics engineer tells me there's nothing to worry about, I should stop being an old woman and wear telex's like the students do.

Two questions then ...

1) Has anybody else experienced this compatibility problem, and can they recommend a cure?

2) Failing that, is there any test I can run / documentation I can provide, to prove that the sound levels inside inferior headsets are above workplace safety regulations (which I'm bloody sure they are)?! Would I have recourse under the Occupational Health and Safety act to 'make' my employer install proper intercoms / buy better student headsets, so I can use my DC's in all the aircraft?

What if I was to suffer hearing loss later in life as a consequence, would it be able to be proved in a court of law and could I sue the back teeth off them accordingly?

All opinions gratefully received.

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The PPRuNe side of the force ... http://www.ffalpha.com/ubb/smilies/evil.gif

[Kermit 180]

WHAT?

Yes, we too have trouble with headset compatability in our C152 aircraft. It seems the aircraft we have trouble with actaully have DC intercoms installed. The DC headsets simply will not work satisfactorily with any cheaper brand when used through a DC intercom. I therefore carry a spare Avcom headset to avoid going deaf.

Perhaps you should advise your company to get a set of better, cheapish headsets. Not only for your sake, but consider the learning environment for your students. If you have a thumping headache, how do they feel? Incidentally, the crappy Cessna intercoms actaully give no problems in our aircraft.

[Yogi-Bear]

Had this trouble for years. I believe it's caused by the low impedance of the DC10-13 & 40 mike. We have an in-line impedance "adjuster"; jack plug one end, jack socket t'other, which you plug the DC10-13 mike jack into and then the adjuster plugs into the normal intercom socket. Solves the problem completely. My boffin is going to make me one of my very own so that my DC10-30 is not blocked by the other fellow's DC 10-13 or 40. If I can find out the tech. details I'll post them, but don't hold your breath.
Don't know about the H&S aspects. That should be fun. As if the business hasn't got enough cost pressure to contend with? What was it you said, now?

[juswonnafly]

Luke,

Don,t be such a Cissy! Wear a good pair of ear defenders and just give the stude a poke in the ribs with a cattle prod now and then!

JWF :rolleyes:

[kabz]

Yeah this sounds familiar. I have my own DCs now (10-13.4) so I am not 'compatible' with the instructors.

Only way to go. For you UK chaps, at standard DC 10-13.4 was $316 + 8% tax, at the local FBO, bit over 200 squid.

[DeltaT]

Go with the electronics idea, I've seen it done before too, though it was able to be fitted inside the earcup of the headset.
Find a techy who can make it for you.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Sounds great. I'm about as electronically literate as those monkeys being discussed elsewhere on the forum, but if any of you guys can steer me in the direction of where to find an adapter (or plans on how to make one) I'd be most appreciative.

[Mr B. Tupp]

Avionics Engineer?

When did they get one of them?

Went through the same arguments several times with the same people and the the correct course of action regarding H+S is to contact the H+S rep on the bottom of their Health and Safety at work posters. Don't know about EGPN but EGPJ certainly had one in ops.

The headset argument with them started a long, long time ago in a hangar far, far away.....

Best luck!

[This message has been edited by Mr B. Tupp (edited 13 June 2001).]

[fallen eagle]

Sorry Luke ST but I gather by your no. of posts that you have been flying for a while.!!!Stick some ear plugs in or use a hand mic,like what we did, not many years back.How many years do you intend to instruct for??How much damage do you reckon you will do to your hearing/ not as much as the git in the Ford Fiesta with a base box going full pelt.Or as much as those of us that have spent years in all sorts of things like Austers etc.Seriously if you think you are suffering in a 150,I can asure you are not.If you realy have a problem and are worried bye an independant intercom as advertised in loads of mags.They work well.Flying is noisy smelly/depending on student/and bloody badly payed, till you get to an airline.so best you make the most of being in the air enjoy it cos many are ready to take your place. bye for now

[DB6]

Luke Old Bean, the bunch I'm working for now take this fairly seriously, and issue custom-made ear defenders (they pour goo into your ears and fit it with a noise filter or something like that). To tell the truth I don't find it too noisy even with six cylinders chuntering away up front, but then Black Sabbath were too quiet the last time I saw them EH? WHAT?. What I do find bad is the intercom hiss that you get in a lot of these aircraft, and short of turning up the squelch, which can be a pain on instructional sorties, the only thing you can do is wear ear defenders. If I remember I'll bring a pair in this weekend sometime (the squeezy yellow kind). You'll have a job getting the headsets changed unless all the old ones get broken, which tends to happen with those Echelons har har.
May the force be with you.
Cheers DB6

[This message has been edited by DB6 (edited 15 June 2001).]

[This message has been edited by DB6 (edited 15 June 2001).]

[juswonnafly]

Luke,

I promise I won't be flippent this time!

Seriously, this is a real problem. I have D.C's too although I find that when there is a problem it seems to be with the internal intercom. Yes I begrudge every minute of wearing cheap smelly badly fitting 'phones that the studes have to wear.............which actually brings me on to another point............Why do so many schools supply such cheap rubbish? (oops, answered that myself, look at the aeroplanes!).

If there is a way of solving the problem with a 'technical gizmo' I too would be very interested.

As to the matter of H & S, is that not a bit like bringing up the delicate subject of minimum wage?

Lastly....my fantasy?......to own a flight school with the BEST aircraft and the BEST PAID instructors (actually this is close to becoming reality)

All the best

JWF

[DeltaT]

Try and see what these guys say:
Headset Services, based at Shoreham
[email protected]
01273 234 181

failing that, there is a outfit at my aerodrome that will convert ANY headset to a ANR for £160.

[Yogi-Bear]

I converted one of my DC10-30s to ANR with a kit from Adams Aviation circa £110 IIRC. (See their website.) Very good it is too, :)but it doesn't solve the blocking problem of incompatibility with DC10-13 and 40s http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

[Sydu]

Hope this sorts itself out soon. Finished my FI(R) with ST last week, hoping to start with you, Luke, on a part time basis soon....need to see the boss first though....I was going to buy a DC 13.4, looks like I might be wasting my time....

[Luke SkyToddler]

Good on ya Sydu ... email me if you want any gen.

I spoke to Headset Services a couple of months back about this, they reckon there is no cure, DC themselves used to do a mod to fit a high impedance mike on request but apparently it wasn't that much cheaper than just buying another headset. They offered to trade in my DC's on a new set of Peltors, but when I tried them the Peltors gave me the same problem.

The company is just at the moment shopping around for another half dozen new headsets to replace all the broken ones and the boss seems quite determined to get more ****ing Telex's, even though you can get plenty of Taiwanese DC knockoffs for less these days, I can't seem to get through to him that those Telex's are total garbage.

I could always just buy another second hand DC or Peltor and use it as my own student headset, DeltaT will probably think I'm the worst hypocrite in the world if I did though :)

[Luke SkyToddler]

And JWF, what a coincidence, my own dream is to fly other people's shiny new aircraft and get paid hugely exorbitant amounts of money for doing so, perhaps we can create synergies together mate.

[DeltaT]

HA! But the difference is your student headset was originally for you!

[flickoff]

Isn't someone missing a trick here? The serious issue is the intructor hearing bit which the H&SE rep should get hold of, but as most flying school owners are always scratching along on a shoestring isn't there an opportunity to sell the studes a DC? Why provide cheap crappo headsets for anything other than a few weeks, why not make them so crap that the stude is only too pleased to buy their own, you know the thing, only one ear works, mic is intermitant, headlice from the previous user etc. Any way for *&^%$ sake, it's only a couple of hundred quid and if the stude cannot find that perhaps they should take up a cheaper hobby. It will last a few years so it's an investment. Better value than some of the useless crap some students fill their flight bags with!

[clear prop!!!]

Your theory is fine in principle, but is based on the premise that DC make the only decent head sets. Life has moved on and there are a number of sets on the market that offer better value for money...but thats another argument altogether for another time.

Fact is that this problem of mike impedance mismatch is a DC problem only and confined in the main to older cessna coms units.

HM will sell you an impeadance equaliser for around £50. It is in-line and can be attached either to the DC's or the offending cheap and nasty set, or indeed expensive and very good set, which just is not liked by DC's! God knows how it works but it might be worth a try.

If someone else would like to spend the £50 and let us all know if it works we would be much obliged!!

I don't know!, you struggle through the exams, the CPL, the FIC etc get paid pennies as an FI....get stuck in a old Cessna and your bloody headsets doesn't work....there must be an easier way to earn a living!
http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/rolleyes.gif