Emirates DE Captains on Higher Pay

[Pixy]

Any truth to the rumor that the Direct Entry Captains that Emirates are hiring are being offered a better package than Captains already employed ?

[Bearcat]

one of my chums has got a job with emirates on big bucks as a 330 capt. He has been on the 330's for the last 9 years, retired from his own co. He is at the end of the day still only on contract as against a full time employee. It probably irks the current guys to see this raft of contractors coming in but thats the way the aviation game is continuing as against going.

[Gulfa]

Big Bucks ?
Go On !

[Jim Kirk]

You guys get your facts straight. I know this is a "Rumours Forum" but these postings are usually placed with a certain amount of fact, and not just someone trying to air a gripe. Bit sad really.

I've just gone through the selection process and all was handled very professionally. A very busy 5 days indeed! Nice guys all around doing the various parts of the assessment.

All you can do is be yourself and do your best

Made to feel welcome and well informed of everything available from salary, schools, accomodation, benefits etc.

There are no contracts. You are hired on a permanent basis and start at the bottom of the Captain's scale.

I'm sure some F/O's in Emirates are a bit ruffled about this, but these positions have come right out of the blue to cover the 8 A340-300's arriving from Singapore.

These are extra to the "plan" and shouldn't affect any F/O that is in the pipeline for a command.

I have had the similar experience in my company, had to grin and accept it, and it certainly didn't affect my promotion.

The salary might not look great on paper, but the benefits included make up for this. "Rumour" has it that they are due for a nice increase in April, so get applying fellas!

[Gulfa]

Get back on track boys !

Capt Kirk, sorry mate, but since your interview much appears to have changed, many of your facts are quite wrong.

I Love Holland “ A country that's not a democracy ” So ! I guess you’re also a man who loves unions.

The question here is, Are Skippers about to join EK on a salary closely equivalent to a 10 year EK man ( 4 years right seat and 6 left )

If so, what are your thoughts ? And potential effects for EK.

[millerscourt]

White Knight Do you not realise you are shooting yourself in the foot by continually suggesting that EK and the Sandbox are so marvellous??

By encouraging more and more to join EK your "Imagined the pay in EK will get better I am sure philosophy " will come to nought.

Supply and demand will affect your payscales being increased, not the desire of your Employer to pay more because he is a Philanthropist!!

I suggest you change tack and advise everyone that as EK have not given a payrise for 10 years then they should avoid EK like the plague!l :ok:

Then who knows perhaps your imaginations will come true.

[camber]

If EK want to lure more DEC's with higher pay, why haven't they updated their website with the good news? If it is true, then whithout an equivalent adjustment to the crews that are already with Emirates, there will be a suitable adjustment in their good will, which will almost certainly never be regained. Time will tell on the accuracy of this thread.

[Reverend Doctor Doug]

Rumours were rife that the new pay would be announced last week. It is EK modus operandi to announce these things on the weekend (After close of business wednesday), but nothing was forthcoming.

The rumours are substantial and from informed sources. It is my guess that someone has made a decision to do it, but someone else higher up may be concerned about the possible impact on employer/employee relations, and have decided to sit on it for a few days or weeks to guage reaction.


Cop U Later

The Rev

[Reverend Doctor Doug]

Sorry to try and get this back on track, but for those interested the rumour is now fact, and the details are on the EK website.

It looks like a sliding scale from 26000dhs to 29000dhs per month based on experience level, although it doesn't detail what experience relates to which salary.

So yes, they are now paying DEC's more than some in house capatains, and in fact they will be getting paid more than the majority of guys on the recruitment team.

That should make for an interesting selection process!!!!


Cop U Later

The Rev

[Cap 56]

Another part of the picture is that EK and the UAE CAA has had a very negative safety assesment from ICAO and the FAA.

They are simply growing too fast and these people are very concerned about this.

It is likely that EK needs to prove they put very experianced Capt on the flights to the US or they will not fly at all.

What I can not figure out however is that some very highly qualified guy's were rejected with the statement that they were overqualified ?

This place puzzles me, what's the problem with a degree, good referances and experiance?


Buzz Boy Wrote

" I am ex airUK and i have to say the dutch are prob the most racist inflexible people i have ever come across! I think Ilove hollands post sums them up!"

" How dare you say such things after the crap you have given the BRITISH pilots, really hope the french kick your asses!! you deserve it! "

I see a lot of hate in that post

[Rananim]

It seems that their basic pay is USD6500 pcm which is VERY low for a wide-body skipper.I know they eek it out with benefits but whichever way you cut it,its not enough.A 744 skipper(comparable to A340/777) can earn $11,000 upward tax free,with 5 star hotel accomodation and free tickets for 10 days straight off commute.Why go to the desert?No sour grapes..just plain truth.

[Chokdee]

Hi Rananim,
I know that some B744 skippers in the UK earn less than $6000 per month. Yes they can go and earn similar figures to what you quoted by contract flying, but people need to realise that we are not all on the same salaries as the US majors. As far as the Ek situation goes, it was always going to be a difficult decision for the management. Perhaps they should have contracted it out until suitably qualified people became available.

[millerscourt]

REv Dr D Yes sliding scale to Dhs 29435 per month gives EK the chance to pay ALL A340 Rated this rate in order to entice them to the promised land!!

PS I would love to be a fly on the wall in the EK crewroom!:{

[mozzie]

Any fly on the wall in an EK crew room can look forward to being very well fed with the amount of crap going on.

At our most recent pilots meeting we were told by our new CP that 'All the DECs would have to qualify under the published criteria and would have to pass the full selection procedure before being offered a contract starting on a year 1 captains salary'. It has been obvious to most who keep an eye on the outside world that these requirements were at best optimistic and at worst naive.

Now here we are: DECs on a higher pay scale than existing captains. Criteria reduced for DECs whilst those for accelerated command within EK has been increased. DECs for the Boeing fleet not even type rated, to release recently converted and other experienced pilots to the Airbus...what next?


It is indeed a great place to be a fly...not a pilot.

[411A]

Mentioned over two years ago that this would eventually happen. EK is certainly not the first carrier to employ DEC's on higher pay, and won't be the last either.

Have personally joined two airlines in the past on these terms...and the local guys will just have to accept same, they really have no choice.
Except to walk.

Looks like the flt ops management are building that small empire into a rather large one...:E

[Pixy]

Well now the rumour is official. Good input from those who could be objective and shame on those who turned it into a slanging match. Good Grief – no wonder pilots are not taken seriously when the best they have to offer is my country, airline, aircraft, is better, bigger etc than yours.

Obviously this development will irritate EK captains. However maybe it’s a step in the right direction. Perhaps pilots everywhere should be paid commensurate with their experience and/or abilities. After all this is how any other professional is paid. Pilots wish to be treated as white collar workers while behaving like blue collar. Unions have been keeping everyone under their leftist ethos for years and generally caused more chaos than otherwise.

Why should an experienced FO be paid the same as an inexperienced one? Why can’t you take your experience elsewhere? It would make a free pilot market. As we move from open skies to free skies perhaps we will move to free salaries. With the demise of flag carriers, so too will seniority and protectionism go. The profession is becoming global and nomadic.

EK will be subject to the same supply and demand as everyone else. Those pilots who have been overstepped in salary by DE captains will no doubt move to greener pastures given the opportunity, as the merits of loyalty have been concisely made clear. Companies will soon discover the cost of continually migrating pilots.

[Backwater]

A global open market for pilots? Why not! Remove the seniority trap that binds us all. Pay commensurate with experience etc. But then I would support it, after 20 years flying experience I find myself at the bottom (or near to it) of my profession, undervalued and under-challenged. And now DEC's flying in over the top of me delaying my command (they said it wouldn't but would you believe what management said anymore?) and creating a firestorm of discontent and mistrust.
But, even the new salaries they're offering probably won't do the trick. It's expensive to live in Dubai and what they're offerring DEC's should be year one F/O pay.
I'm off now to read my Flight mag, back pages first, and dream of a global open market...
;)

[ekslave]

What a way to reward the existing pilot force.
We have many pilots that fulfil the requirements for a DEC, but, having made the commitment earlier to join EK, now find themselves being paid less than a DEC.
Solution...... resign, apply as a DEC and give youself a 5000 dirham pay rise.
What about the training captains that will be checking out DEC's who will be getting paid more than them.

[millerscourt]

Backwater For what it is worth you have my sympathy over the way EK Management are treating you Pilots.

Sure I have stirred things up a bit on the DEC subject merely to highlight the reducinc T & C's going on in all ex-pat hiring Airlines.

Unfortunately Aviation has always been an Up and Down business and there always seems to be some Country in the World where aviation is in crisis or their currency or the political situation is bad which provides a flood of Pilots looking to escape to other parts of the world which in turn drives down T & C's .

Airline managements take full advantage of this. It all started back in '89 with the flood of Australian Pilots and until the supply dries up don't expect things to improve. Canada now seems to have a huge surplus of Pilots fanning out all over the world just to add to all the others.

[sluggums]

ahhh, now you're all making the same mistake in thinking that the airline gives a s**t about you. You're just a bum in a seat.
Nothing more nothing less.

EK management couldn't care less whether the flight/cabin crew are happy or not, all they want is for the a/c to go on time and full of pax.

Forget a pay rise, there are enough people waiting in the wings (no pun intended) who believe that this co. is the holy grail of airline jobs, BIG mistake.

...ahhh I feel better now, cold beer and valium do wonders out here.

[livaa]

Guys,
it is like in any industry
Salary is driven by demand/availability. when you are needed you will get better salary, perks so on and so forth.
When the wind is turning, well company will be looking for cheap driver.
I suppose we all just need to accept that we are not that special ;-)

[Backwater]

You may not be special, but I am! Especially to my family and my passengers! :ok:

[shakealeg]

All very depressing and not at all what we signed up for. We also live in a "benevolent" dictatorship which doesn't take kindly to the troops revolting. Only thing to do is walk but then the question of a bond lurks nearby. Also I see mention of a change in credit rules i.e 75% for augmented crew and no credit for leave. Can anyone verify that?
Ho hum.

[Zomp]

I wonder if Ek will get any F/O's in the future now when its confirmed that they have to wait for a long time to get an upgrade, I am talking about at least 8 years and more.

[Bo Jingly]

Who is going to train a DEC if he earns more than the training staff?

[411A]

Very simple answer BoJ, he will do as he is told, or face the consequences.
Like it or not...and many won't.:E

Management calls the tune, as has always been the case.:ooh:

[allaru]

Pilots are required to attend motivational sessions, which will be conducted over the next week.

Line pilots will receive a kick in the nuts, while pilots who have devoted extra time to the company through management or training rolls will receive an additional swift boot up the ass.

Direct Entry Captains are not required to attend, as they will be expected to make up the numbers at the forthcoming flight ops party.

[allaru]

This proposal has nothing to do with supply and demand, but has everything to do with unbelievably poor man management practices. Yes supply and demand will have a large influence on pay and conditions, but screwing your current, loyal employment base is not the solution to the problem. .

In relation to 411As, ‘certainly not the first carrier to employ DEC's on higher pay, and won't be the last either’, that’s crap. Yes many airlines have employed expatriates, on differing contracts with higher benefits than existing employees, but it has usually been under a totally separate set of conditions , i.e. no seniority, no promotional prospects, no long term prospects, and so on. In EKs case these guys are not contractors and as far as I know will offered all of the same benefits as existing Captains.

And what about the FOs who meet the DEC requirements and have applied to be upgraded, what pay will they get, more than existing Captains.

The whole thing is clearly a stuff up of grand proportion, and lets just hope it’s not a sign of things to come.

[Pixy]

I don't like your attitude !

Kicking will continue until it improves.

[411A]

Elementary, my dear Watson.

Management practice...at its best.:{ :E

[buzz boy]

Blimey 411A !!! over 2500 posts!! havent you got anything better to do?:O

[411A]

Actually bb, it's closer to 3500....1000 got lost in the shuffle about a year ago.:uhoh: