Ten most overpaid jobs in the US, No. 9 Pilots!?!?!

[FlyUK]

Thought some of you may be intrested in this article. Click Here (http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7B954AA053-F953-43F3-BBC8-63D351A3BF2A%7D&siteid=google&dist=google) It says that pilots are the number 9 most overpaid job in the US. Now I am well aware that this is in the US and that top Captains over there CAN earn $250K against the UKs £110K ISH. (and yes i realise that different airlines pay differently before anyone says some smart comment like, 'well why don't i see this money, i've been a captain for 500years.....' But i thought someone might have something to say about this.

[OFBSLF]

Like everything, it depends. Here in the US, I think pilots of commuter airline turboprops are grossly underpaid. I do agree with the article, however, that the senior captains on the US major airlines are overpaid.

[chico caliente]

Badly written and opinionated - best ignored.:ok:

[FlyUK]

I do still find it quite strange how some top captains in the US can quite easily be on double the equvilant salary a Captain would earn in the UK....does anyone agree?

[Stockpicker]

Frankly, I would send anyone who thought you guys are overpaid to the current "scariest experiences" thread - it strikes me this article is about misplaced perception, not researched fact - ignore it!

Not entirely happy with the no. 1 item in the list, either ...:ouch:

[FLYING COUNSEL]

Ok, sorry for being pedantic. Before absolute bedlam erupts, lets be clear, the report uses the word 'pilots for major airlines'. Everybody on PPRuNe knows that there are many in GA or in the airlines who are anything but overpaid. So lets keep the emotion out of this discussion.

I don't agree with the other posters that this thread should be ignored. Such an approach is verging on censorship or at the very least adopting the ostrich approach (i.e head in the sand). Surely we can discuss this like adults, just because it is something that isn't towing the line or is a little abrasive, does not mean it should be ignored.

May i say that in my proffession, I get this sort of comment every single day, so just get over it, people seem to think that I am making big bucks.. oh I wish! and what a pleasant surprise to see the absence of 'fat cat' lawyers on the list.

[Dogma]

It all market forces, the golden days are gone, but it is still possible to make a good living!:ok:

[FlyUK]

Notso Fantastic, appologies if i sound pushy but i tried not to sound like all pilots are on the same salary, if that makes sence. No i am certainly not a jerno, god forbid. I am currently working on my Commercial, slowly! But with my dad a Captain i know how much he hates being generalised as i'm sure many of you do. I just posted it here because i though some people may have something to say about it, maybe?

[lomapaseo]

As free citizens we should excercise our right not to fund these excesses.

It's relatively easy not to go to movies, watch sports, invest in mutual stocks etc.

It should be just as easy to refuse to fly with an overpaid airline captain

[Panama Jack]

I'm with you lomapaseo!!!

When I buy stuff, I look for the "Made in China", India, Thailand, Mexico, Dominican Republic label that gives me a good idea that I am not funding the excesses of some union factory worker in North America or Europe who EXPECTS (:yuk: ) to be able to own a house, buy a new car every few years, send his kids to college, and all that B.S. when some sod out in the third world is happy to have a job that will pay him $2 per day. And even that is too much, IMHO, since in many parts of the world able bodied workers come at a dime a dozen! Hell, I know airline Captains who work for $1200 per month and FO's who get $600 per month. But even this is an excess because I bet if you cut wages to half of that or less, there will still be people willing to take those jobs-- maybe not the same ones but most of it is just button pecking anyhow these days and excesses (almost anything over a $20,000 per year salary) are wrong! :}

[Dogma]

Panama Jack, right on mother f:mad: er

All pilots that earn in excess of 20k, should be super taxed!

We all know that only the government knows how to spend money wisely, on such things as giving protected asylum to Saudi freedom fighters whom plan attacks on our servicemen in the Middle East...... from the UK!

[Airbubba]

>>I do still find it quite funny how SOME top captains in the US can quite easily manage to be on double the equvilant salary a Captain would earn in the UK....does anyone agree?<<

Yeah, but you guys have higher taxes, harder tests and better R/T procedures so it all evens out <g>...

[davethelimey]

My personal favourite was how pilots' jobs are almost "entirely automated". Put the hack at the controls and see how he does. One button for 'up' and one for 'down', isn't it?

Reading Michael Moore's lefty rantings the other day, he mentions that a new pilot for American Eagle (American's commuter branch) can expect to take home about $9000 gross per year, after paying for his uniform etc.

Apparently one of the pilots was eligible for food stamps, American found out and threatened anyone that picked them up would be fired.

[Panama Jack]

You see, there we go!

We only need to look to the United States and American Eagle for real corporate leadership!

Imagine, the nerve of their pilot wanting food stamps! :confused: I figure the age of 5 is the perfect time to teach our children about the glories of capitalism, which by the way is what made America great, and the best way to learn is by example. So if the guy has any kids, to earn is to learn. Send them out on the street, sell oranges, lottery tickets, pirated CD's, whatever! It's kinda like franchising! The more kids, the more sources of possible income! And sex is a great alternative when you can't afford to by a new TV and doesn't require electricity!

Hell. we all know that the West consumes too many calories, so not having access to food stamps and a $9000 salary is a great new diet fad-- coming soon to you! :}

[Jerricho]

Michael Moore, is that you?

[Crepello]

Because pilots' wages are dictated by the market economy. Politician's aren't.

Effectively, we all refuse to fly airlines with overpaid staff. Competition forces ticket prices down, so companies trim their numbers and/or wages. Any that don't will not survive. Good for consumers, less good for employees.

Panama Jack has pretty much summed it up. It'll be interesting to see what happens to the US/EU economies over the next few decades. Labour's far cheaper in less developed countries, and as more and more manufacturing & services are contracted-out, one wonders where it'll end. Hands up who thinks the Dollar & euro will be the world's major currencies in a century's time? Not me.

Capitalism's not perfect but what are the alternatives? Communism didn't work, and protectionism isn't exactly proven. IMHO, the future ain't so bright...

[Gin Slinger]

Yes there is a wide disparity in pilots' income levels, particularly in the US if you compare the very top of Delta's scale to the lowliest guys at American Eagle.

Automation. Okay, why should Mister Chris Bummer, CBS.MarketWatch.com, get paid far more than Joe Bloggs, Assistant Newshound of the Monkey Creek Gazette in Wyoming? After all, in these days of word processing and spell checkers, his job is highly automated too. The reason for Bummer's salary level is advanced thought processes and skill he's built up in his many years of hackery...just like the pilots who invested 1000's of $ to go through the ranks of CFI-ing, regional airlines and then perhaps onto Delta.

Disclaimer: this post was brought to you with help of a considerable quantity of Guinness.

[Lou Scannon]

This article is amusing and very tongue-in-cheek. Otherwise we would all be knocking on the door of the "top rated" job offering to start first thing Monday morning.

Sportsman, actor, orthodontist you get what the public are prepared to pay whether because of your talent or because of your years of training. Certainly, some guys who make the top do their best to remain there and take out as much cash as they can.

If you object to this, go offer to do their job for far less money and see how quickly you are accepted by their grateful employers.

[soddim]

Perhaps we should not pay so much attention to what others earn but rather more to whether we are adequately rewarded for our own efforts. Those companies who overpay will not compete in the long term anyway but it is what we were hired for that counts. As long as we are happy to work for our own salary level who cares what others are paid.

It is more important that our own remuneration package is right.

Envy and greed are dreadful sins in my book.

[Tan]

Quote:

Most Dangerous And Most Overpaid?

It seems to be the time of year that folks are in the mood to make lists, and airline pilots are getting onto some of them. AVweb told you last month that a federal report found a job as a commercial pilot to be one of the top 10 most dangerous jobs in the U.S. Now a financial writer for CBS, Chris Plummer, has come up with a list of the top 10 most overpaid workers -- and guess who's on it? Airline pilots come in at number 9, just above wedding photographers and just below West Coast longshoremen. Plummer claims no statistical proof for his ranking, just his opinion, but with "input from compensation experts." He notes that an airline pilot's job is mostly automated, and the folks who really should be getting the big bucks -- the ones who keep all those passengers from falling out of the sky -- are not the pilots but the mechanics. Then again, the mechanics remain safely on the ground. We wonder if those compensation experts took that into account?

[ILS 119.5]

Personally I do not think that Aviation Professionals are overpaid no matter who they work for. In fact there are a lot of pilots who are underpaid in the UK for thier responsibilities. The major airlines pay well and up to the market forces value however smaller regional airlines using props for example pay about 20k for an F/O with skippers on 40k, bearing in mind some of these Captains are very experienced they are not being paid full market value for thier experience. In the UK if you want to earn a lot of money then BA is the company to work for, if you get in. They then rule al the other salaries, once they take in a new batch of pilots the system works downwards for new pilots to start at the bottom. ie vacancies will occur at smaller airlines as everybody moves up. This is the way it works! Oh, don't forget the controllers. They are paid between 45k and 70k in the UK,(if they are radar qualified), which is dependent on where and who they work for. I think that because of the training involved, the hard work put into qualifying for careers as pilots or atcos, the responsibility put onto professionally qualified people should be questioned. It is up to the professionals out there to decide how we should proceed further if we think that our professions are being underpaid, which is more to the point.

PS. for the member whe spelt "proffessional" there is only one effin professional

Flying Coumsil

One "F".

Were you the one who landed at Dublin and put full brakes on burnt out the brakes and popped the tyres. The Hostess ran in after all the passengers had been thrown forward and said "this is a short runway" to which your reply was "yeah, but have you seen the width of it!"

Ha Ha,

Sorry I meant "should not be questioned" not "should be questioned"

[lomapaseo]

PS. for the member whe spelt "proffessional" there is only one effin professional

I humbly proffess my ignorance

[Panama Jack]

Here is an interesting article for you steely-eyed "brave new world" fans.

Walmart (http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html)

What can be done to pickles, bikes, umbrellas and jeans, can surely do to labour, including that of pilots. :uhoh:

The low-cost carriers come to mind. Right now the LCC's compete against the majors trunk carriers. What happens in Phase II when LCC's compete against LCC's? Ultra Low Cost Carriers?

[Neo]

What a load of bilge!

You might think that airline pilots are overpaid - right up until the moment one of the engines suffers a massive and extremely loud uncontained fan failure. Then they just can't be paid enough.

If you persist in thinking that airline pilots are over paid, ask yourself this question:

"Would I use the services of a low-cost brain surgeon?"

Most of us would say no. We would want the best service we could get. So if you would not put your life in the hands of a quack, why would you acccept putting your life in the hands of a "low cost" pilot? Besides, surgeons only have one life in their hands at a time, pilots have anything up to 500. And surgeons don't usually end up the same morgue as the victims of their mistakes.

There are certain airlines that have a reputation for treating their pilots badly; I simply will not fly on these airlines. I sincerely hope that the aviationindustry is not about forget the hard learnt lessons of the past.

[Lou Scannon]

Have you seen the recently quoted rates for two jobs that serve the major airports?

Gatwick Express drivers are being offered £37,000 pa but are striking for more.

London tube drivers are getting £32,000 and as much squash playing as they like.

Just work out how long it would take to train pilots for their jobs and how long to train rail drivers for ours!

Don't show this post to your FO. He may apply for a transfer on the way home!

[West Coast]

This article made main stream media in the US in a big way. A lot of the negative reactions smacked of jealousy. The way I look at it, I'm glad some guy is pulling down 250K/yr. Instead of taking pot shots at him and his profession, look to yourself and try to improve your lot in life.

[flartnog]

Sour grapes? Why should a Saab340 captain with 4000 hours make any where near what a 777 captain with over 20,000 hours makes? You need to work your way into those higher paying jobs on large aircraft. I am sure that the captains that make over 200k worked their butts off to get where they are.

Overpaid? Athletes, Celebrities, Corp exec

[tarjet fixated]

Panama Jack,
our profession cannot be compared to umbrellas and jeans;these goods cost less if made in China because people who make them overthere are underpaid but can still have a roof over their heads and a pot of rice when they come home after work (if they ever get to go home that is...), talking in aviation terms now you should bring chinese pilots over here (cannot be based in Shangai and do the NY-Miami flight in the morning) to the west and let them do our jobs...but how will they survive here if they are underpaid?And even if they accepted to work for an hamburger and a tent in the park would the passengers still feel ok in taking a plane?And what about new cadets in flight schools?There would be no more people wanting to become a pilot because of the job's low standards of life and because of the extremely high education costs and therefore unless the third world countries' pilot population was endless, there would be no more pilots creating therefore a shortage and consequently again a rise in salaries...etc etc....this world and economy are far more complicated than you think
By the way, here in Europe low cost airlines seem to pay their drivers quite well putting them surely between the so called high paid jobs so i think they are saving on other stuff.

[VH-KMH]

The author of this article is a d**khead. he is pissed off that he doesnt make as much money as these people, and in some cases may have to work twice as hard to make 1/10th of the money others make, so he creates an article, where he can take out his case of the tall poppy syndrome on others. sometimes people go into jobs that make a lot of the money purely for the money, but a lot go in because the enjoy the job. making an excellent salary is a bonus! he doesnt have the first clue of a pilots job, and what is involved. if it is so easy and fully automated, lets see him get behind the controls of pretty much any aircraft and see how he goes. what a d**khead.

[flyby_kiwi]

Neo hit the nail on the head. Airline pilots may be accused of earning to much - right up untill something goes wrong at 30,000'.

How the hell was this top 10 list created? Whose to say that airline pilots are making to much? - Prehaps there is a relationship between the so called 'top 10 dangerous jobs' and the supposed top 10 'over paid'.

Over the course of a carrerr spanning from entry level GA through to the majors would you actually end up all that better of than someone who worked a reasonably 'highish' paying job his/her entire carrer.

Most of all - WHO GIVES A S**T! apart from the editor of the article. Im not worried that someone is earning more than they should and therefore should be taking a pay cut - because it would be considered 'fair'.

On a more possitive note - last year here in NZ a similar article was placed with the 10 most trusted and 10 most untrusted professionals/workers. - Pleased to say Pilots were the MOST trusted of all workers.

[Ignition Override]

To quote VH-KMH above, that author is so envious, he is a d******d-his envy is as bright as the moon through night-vision goggles?! His must be a desperate attempt to bring up his website ratings in order to earn more advertising revenue.

Anyone who is willing to begin at the bottom rung in this career (2nd LTs and especially GA Instructors earn very little-food stamp salaries) is welcome to go earn the ratings and then apply for the various jobs. He is possibly the type who is too large to even walk to a flightline without huffing and puffing-or fit into a tiny cockpit without a bucket of KY Jelly. :D

[beamer]

Oh do relax - at the end of the day we are only glorified bus-drivers boys and girls !

[Jet II]

Whoops - this guy sure has hit a nerve.

flyby_kiwi
Most of all - WHO GIVES A S**T!

Well quite a few actually, seeing as there are 3 pages slagging the guy off:rolleyes:

[ILS 119.5]

"glorified bus drivers"

do not forget the importance of our jobs! Bus drivers don't give a !!!!!, we do and have to train harder. Please, for all of us, make sure that the public are aware tht our job is not just only a "bus driver"

[maxalt]

I must say I find it hard to reconcile the wounded reactions of contibutors to this thread with the same group who criticise a fellow pilot for defending his (and indeed their) professionalism. Not to mention defending his crew.
(See the 'Virgin Skipper has a Flipper' thread)

We are our own worst enemies because we are a profession riddled with division, burdened by excessive self criticism, and plagued by envy and begrudgery.

Lou Scannon, nice post. At least next time someone tells me I'm just a jumped up train driver...I'll remember to ask if we could all be paid as well as those train drivers.

[Joe Curry]

>>Badly written and opinionated - best ignored.<<

I hated that Christopher Pummer since the sound of
music. :D :D :D

Wrong guy? Give him L:O

[fiftyfour]

I don't doubt the facts - that Delta top of list captains are currently paid $250K per annum. Pilots in airlines like that won't be earning that sort of money for much longer. When the american public tires of subsidising the big airlines, these guys are going to fall a long way, and it will be a heavy thud with no bounce. I work at LGW and have been told of the loads that Delta carry on that route - it is not unusual for the the number of passengers to barely exceed the number of crew.

[maxy101]

Hold on Fifty four, SouthWestern skippers do very well too....Would you begrudge them their dosh?

[None]

I agree with most (but not all) of what this guy says in reply to the article:

"I was a little more than miffed to read Chris Pummer's '10 most overpaid jobs' column on CBSMarketWatch last Friday - - especially since one of them - major airline pilot - is what I do. Not only was his description of my profession grossly distorted in terms of both compensation and job description; it was downright insulting.

You can imagine my further chagrin when you chose to feature this sloppy "journalist" on your show Monday morning! I can't speak for the other nine jobs he maligned, but his complete ignorance of the nature of my profession leads me to question the accuracy of the others he described.

A few points:

1) The median pilot salary at Delta is nowhere near the 250,000 Mr. Pummer described. Try about half that! Quoting the top end pay one can earn during the last 2-3 years of a 30 year career is hardly indicative of the compensation afforded major airline pilots.

2) It takes an average of 10-12 years of college, postgraduate flight schools (2-4 years' worth), internship, and 3 to 4 thousand hours of jet experience just to qualify for an INTERVIEW at a major airline. The cost of such preparation EXCEEDS that of medical or law school and the overall preparation is easily comparable to what an attorney, dentist or even general medical practitioner goes through.

3) Mr. Pummer incorrectly described the job as being "almost fully
automated." Wrong. The automation that exists in the current
generation of passenger jets allowed operators to eliminate the 3rd pilot/flight engineer. The workload remaining for the 2 pilot crew is equal or higher, especially in abnormal situations, than it was previously.

4) Comparing major airline pilot pay to regionals is not very
meaningful. Pilot cost per seat mile is a more accurate cost comparison - - and in this, major airline pilots are on par with their regional counterparts! From the dawn of sailing vessels, a ship's Captain has been paid in part relative to the size/weight of his/her craft. I operate a 250 passenger, 400,000 pound Boeing 767. The biggest aircraft Southwest operates is a 125,000 pound, 125-130 passenger 737. Most regional airlines operate 50-70 passenger 50,000 pound regional jets.
Apples to oranges.

5) Pilots are paid by the FLIGHT hour. For each flight hour paid, we are required to be on duty 1 1/2 to 2 hours. My monthly schedule works out to approximately a 40-45 hour work week, PLUS 12-13 nights per month away from home. It's a FULL-TIME job!

6) Like other professionals, pilots go through demanding continuing education and evaluation. The qualification standard is 100% on every maneuver and on every normal and emergency procedure. Fall short and find another job. Pilots have to maintain and recertify medical fitness every 6 months. The FAA doesn't like your EKG? Kiss your career goodbye. Develop diabetes or high blood pressure? Kiss your career goodbye. Go see a Psychiatrist for depression and get on medication? Kiss your career goodbye. Pilots are scrutinized by the federal
government during all phases of aircraft operation. Perform a task
incorrectly or violate an approach altitude by 1 foot? Have nice long unpaid leave or find another job.

7) Speaking of pilots, Mr Pummer stated, "Because we entrust our lives to them, consumers accept the excessive sums paid them, when it's airplane mechanics who really hold our fate in their hands." Tell that to the passengers who had to make an emergency return to Salt Lake not too long ago, when a mechanic failed to properly reconnect an engine generator drive, resulting in an inextinguishable magnesium fire in the engine. Only quick, professional action on the part of the pilots and
cabin crew resulted in the safe landing and prompt evacuation of all on board. Tell that to the United DC-10 crash survivors in Sioux City, Iowa, who are alive thanks to the outstanding airmanship of Capt Al Haines who drew on years and tens of thousands of hours of experience in crafting an aerodynamic solution to a severe hydraulic failure that rendered his ship virtually uncontrollable! The pilots union that Mr. Pummer derides has for over 70 years fought for and won improvements in
aircraft and airport safety too numerous to mention. You and I should shudder in fear at the prospect of an aviation system without the Air Line Pilots Association's involvement!

As a major airline pilot, I am responsible for the safety of hundreds of people and the operation of a hundred-million dollar jet in any weather, visibility, airport/runway condition, and airspace congestion level. The consequences of even a minor failing on my part can be catastrophic, creating liability in the billions of dollars, not to mention tremendous injury and loss of life.

I accept that the post 9/11 fallout created huge downward pressures on every aspect of the airline industry. My own paycheck and career prospects have and will continue to diminish. I accept this as a reality of the market place. I just wish that Chris Pummer and others who report on my industry and the profession I dearly love and have labored long years to qualify for would JUST ONCE get it right."

[birdbrain]

Well how are we all then ?
I think most people earn what they deserve for the effort etc. that they put in to their respective trade/profession, except maybe for those boyos in court rooms...:{

Now, I always wanted to be in the LHS of a big commercial jet, but that is never to happen, so I just fly for a hobby... well, I have to now as my other half wouldn't allow me to take the drop rolleyes: in income and deprive her of the lifestyle to which she has become accustomed:p :

[Metro man]

Most professions have a top end with good money/relatively little work involved. How many reach that level is a different matter.

Yes some senior Captains make a lot of money and choose the trips they want to exotic destinations or stay home on reserve and fly once or twice a month to stay current.

Most major airline, let alone pilots in general don't.

After years of working your way up in lesser jobs ,paying for training or risking danger in the military a small number make it to that level and for a few years before retirement have it very good.

A reasonable incentive to the rest of us to enter a profession with very little job security ,where you are under constant threat from a take over ,failed medical ,bad checkride etc. Not to mention the divorce rate.

Many professions would look at a senior pilots earnings as what they would expect mid career ,increasing greatly before retirement.

I don't see judges or senior civil servants on the list .Imagine not being able to be sacked for poor performance ,company can't go broke and a guaranteed inflation proof pension on retirement.

About the only one job I agree totally with is CEOs of failing companies. I can't see any pilot causing a reduction in company profits through his incompetence being given a multi million dollar golden goodbye can you ?
;)

[Tripower455]

None,

OUTSTANDING response. I have nothing to add.

[beamer]

If US pilots get paid so much money - why is their RT such c**p ?

[West Coast]

Simply to torque you off. I am damn sure gonna ask for a few more sports scores from now on when I hear one of my better RT trained brethern on frequency. My God, your tests are harder than ours also. A wonder the N registered planes aren't falling out of the skies.

[beamer]

Great - don't forget the Rugby Union WORLD Cup Final this weekend - no namby pamby American Football shoulder pads in Sydney !

[Ailorron]

Who posts such tosh??!! The aspiring and desparate? Do not sell us short - aim high and hope to achieve a deserved salary one day when you have crawled up to the top. Airlines - hope to continue to attract dedicated intelligent professionals - because yet again, those of us in the know can see how the job has sadly gone downhill, and we need to continue to attract the right calibre of people. I desparately hope my co pilots will have the dedication and integrity to apply themselves adequately - no - adequate is not good enough - skillfully, intelligently, passionately, as I hope I have done for the last 24 years in this, my chosen profession, because a hell of a lot of my fellow first officers see their compatriot graduates in far better paid professions - without the negatives of time away from loved ones, fatigue, lonliness, divorce, fear of losing licence, stress of putting your neck on the line with recurrent checks, fear of some envious person reporting you for political incorrectness, a comment intended to be lighthearted, humorous, taken the wrong way, and I want to be in a good team. Have something high to aim for - then reach for it.
I chose this profession because I love aeroplanes, but I hate the envy and greed that creeps in. And hey Americans, not all Brits are pompous arrogant ****s! And I would like to echo the sentiment that when there is a problem to deal with, none of us are paid enough!

[vin757]

The article was clearly written from an uneducated and bias opinion. Most people (but pilots) understand what it takes to become a senior captain at a major airline. They had to pay their dues just like I'm doing right now, that is flight instructing for peanuts. But their hard work, just like mine, will be rewarded.

On another note, it really irritates me to hear lay people like this complain that pilots are overpaid, especially when they use the reason that flying is highly automated.:mad:

[Airbubba]

November 19, 2003 11:50 AM US Eastern Timezone

Allied Pilots Association Releases Statement in Response to Article about ``10 Most Overpaid Jobs''

FORT WORTH, Texas--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Nov. 19, 2003--
'Pilots responsible for assets worth $100 million or more and hundreds of lives every day they're on the job'


The Allied Pilots Association (APA), collective bargaining agent for the 13,500 pilots of American Airlines (NYSE:AMR), released the following statement today in response to an article originally posted to the CBS Market Watch Web Site:

"On behalf of the pilots who fly for American Airlines, the world's largest passenger carrier, I would like to register my strong objection at finding 'Pilots for major airlines' included in the piece by Chris Pummer entitled 'The 10 most overpaid jobs in the U.S.' posted to the CBS Market Watch Web Site earlier this month," said Captain John E. Darrah, APA President.

"Airline pilots for major carriers must undergo years of specialized training and experience before assuming responsibility for a corporate asset worth $100 million or more and hundreds of lives every day we're on the job--a profession where we undergo annual proficiency checks, rigorous recurrent training, biannual medical exams, psychological screening and random drug testing, and where any number of relatively minor health ailments can abruptly end our career," said Darrah.

"Many of our pilots are initially trained in the military in service to our country, and begin their airline careers at the age of 30 or older. In fact, we have more than 500 pilots currently on active military duty, with many in harm's way in the Middle East. And speaking of harm's way, each time our pilots go to work, they do so with the awareness that a number of their fellow crewmembers were savagely murdered by terrorists just two short years ago. As a consequence of September 11, 2001, increasing numbers of our pilots are undergoing training as Federal Flight Deck Officers to carry firearms and serve as the vital last line of defense against a terrorist attack--yet another example of the life-and-death responsibilities that our pilots bear.

"The average age of an American Airlines new-hire pilot is around 30 years old, and the typical annual starting salary for pilots with major airlines is around $25,000. There are few professions that require such extensive training and experience at the outset that provide such a low starting salary. The well-compensated airline pilots that Mr. Pummer references are senior Captains with 25-plus years of experience, and they're flying the largest aircraft, with the biggest passenger loads, over the longest distances in commercial aviation.

"While I agree that the work our skilled mechanics perform is vitally important, it's the pilots who bring the ship back safely to earth when something goes wrong. It's not 'automation' or 'technology' that saves hundreds of lives when an aircraft suffers structural failure or the malfunction of a critical component--it's the pilots. How much value do you place on that skill level?

"In just the last few weeks, we have had American Airlines pilots cope with a variety of emergency situations, such as safely landing an aircraft with the nose gear stuck in the 'up' position and, on three occasions, safely landing aircraft that have sustained crippling damage to the engines and airframe from striking large flocks of migratory birds," he said.

"There are numerous other instances where pilots have successfully averted disaster over the years. Consider the 291 passengers aboard an AirTransat A330-200 in the Azores on August 24, 2001 after both engines lost power at cruise altitude due to a leak in the fuel system. The pilots were able to coax the huge jet to glide without power for 20 minutes for about 115 miles over the ocean and land on a military airfield runway, averting a mid-ocean ditching. Did the passengers who gratefully deplaned that day think their pilots were overpaid? I am betting the answer is a resounding 'No!'"

That is the full text of Captain Darrah's statement.

Since the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, American Airlines has furloughed more than 2,000 pilots, with additional furloughs scheduled in the coming months. The contract American Airlines' pilots voted to approve earlier this year contained across-the-board pay cuts of 23 percent. In many instances, pilots have experienced actual pay reductions of up to 40 percent because they have been transferred from Captain to First Officer due to the airline's reduction in operations.

Founded in 1963, APA is headquartered in Fort Worth, Texas. More information about APA can be found at www.alliedpilots.org.


http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20031119005571&newsLang=en

[Neo]

I guess I don't have to look at the original article to know that the MOST overpaid job in the US is that held by Chris Pummer. I certainly wouldn't pay the guy $1 for such badly researched rubbish, so whatever he's on is WAY too much.

One for the chop in my book.

[flyin' fuhh...]

Well, skycaps didn't do too badly either....

Do you think wedding photographers are duking it out somewhere on another board?

[Ignition Override]

None and Airbubba have also contributed with many excellent points.

Many Captains with US major airlines finished their last several years on the annual salary of a long-haul truck driver, after major pay cuts: the most senior 737, MD-80, F-100 Captains with the pay of a US major airline B-737 or MD-80 First Officer. And this is still much more than the most senior ATR-42, ERJ, CRJ or Avro Captains' salaries, on the larger propjets (turboprops), or turbofans with 50-69 seats. This is not to say that truck drivers don't have many acquired skills, however only the ignorant or the envious with an axe to grind (including many of the media's hacks and wannabe's) choose to put the two occupations into one category.

These thousands of career pilots with several US majors flew for thirty or more years until the maximum age of sixty (if they passed their medical exams each six months), and their airlines were either raped by corporate sharks (many cases of this in the 80's, early 90's) and/or entered, possibly barely avoided bankruptcy. Never mind the 9/11 panic and recession.

A former FO buddy (who flew 744 and 777s years ago for Cathay Pacific) here just had his career suddenly terminated, due to a type of heart arrhythmia. Had his first required EKG at age 35. Another guy slipped on a puddle by a coke machine in the pilot lounge and the migraine headaches ended his career-age 51 or so. Not much retirement pay for him.

Another buddy here only got his medical re-instated after several years by "our friends" FAA because somehow the NTSB took notice of S's case and overruled the FAA! Part of his initial problem was due to the report of a very arrogant Cardiologist (he has a "God-Complex": common for many doctors here in the US) in this town, who also grounded a FEDEX pilot merely for telling him about how to better do an EKG!! The FAA bitterly resents being overruled for their random, arbitrary use of unlimited, arrogant authority, having hidden many despicable and cowardly acts in the paper-filled wastelands and cyberspace of their huge, cavernous bureaucracy. It can be like the monster Grendel-but there is no Beowulf who can decisively smite it. Don't believe this? Just read up on Bob Hoover's grounding. He was the only famous guy to suffer through this. Many of the fallen will never be read about. Anyway, other Part 121 pilots were NEVER grounded for my buddy's condition (heart murmor in Latin- i.e. in vino est veritas, or whatever...)! Only TWO airline pilots in twenty years have had their denial/revocation of a First Class medical overruled by the NTSB! Why not more?:ugh:

[CargoOne]

You should have a good university background and further extensive training to be a duty controller at big nuclear power plant. Depending of location you are responsible for 1,000-25,000,000 lives at the end of the day. If s**t happens, as much as 1-2m people will never see the sunrise again, and as much as another 5-10m will die within few years. The huge territhory will became a dead zone for dozens of years.

Do you have a clue what is the salary you can expect on this position? Make your bets, gentelmen.

[Neo]

CargoNone -

Missed the point there bud. Nuclear powerplants don't fall out of the sky. If something goes wrong in one, all you need to do is press the big red button marked "SCRAM REACTOR" and hey presto, emergency over!

However, I have no objection to nuclear powerplant controllers getting airline captain level salaries. I do object, however, to corporate board members crashing their companies through incompetence with subsequent deleterious effects on their staff, and then walking away with big bonuses.

[Pilocol]

For them to think...
Do you know that the crew salaries count for 2 to 5 % of the total operation of the airplane (Depending on the plane) ... And they complain??? Bunch of A:mad: ...

Keep it safe!!

[G5wannabe]

**Whew** I am glad ALPA said something about the idot. I was worried I'd have to respond to Panama Jack's comment about the lack of sex too er' earning something to do it or ...whatever...

I need a job since I am working 4 jobs now to make ends meet. I have done it and I will fly for food. I live in a 3 bedroom house trailer, got 4 children to feed and put to college. Ya, I'm starting late but :mad: I want to make more than poverty sometime in this career move in a job I like.

I heard writters make 40-50,000 per first year. I'm drooling over 25k with the regionals????!!! Whose over paid?

[RRAAMJET]

Dear Mr Pummer,

I suppose the crew from DHL landing their missile-crippled A-300 are amongst those "overpaid" airline pilots you write of?

You are a d***head of the first order....:mad:

Jeez...what an ignoramus.:yuk: