LGW-SSH

[sanook]

Sorry to ask this qu if it has been answered before. Just returned from SSH to LGW on Easyjet. How do they manage a single FDP there and return ?

[dash6]

Report before 1300 local. Max FDP 13:15 One hour report,one hour turn round,five hours approx. each way.A nice relaxed day out

[sanook]

Thank you very much

[average-punter]

Things may have changed since when I was crew, but this is how it worked when I did it.

I think our Sharm was 14:10 duty time and when we checked in the Capt. and FO had a 1 hour FDP extension (it said this in big red writing on our system). They also got a day off either side of it. It's closer to 6 hours coming back.

[HeartyMeatballs]

New EASA FTLs will now mean crews won't need the day off either side. So they could do a SSH flight and do a long four sector day each side of it. From MAN it is an even longer flight.

[dash6]

13:15 hours is a standard FDP.No variation (extension) required,so days off not needed.

[HeartyMeatballs]

Yes it's legal and therefore completely safe.

[autobrake3]

It is also legal to fly the same route with a 107 hour MPL cadet pilot. On arrival you have a manic turn around with the frazzled cabin crew cleaning up the mess of 180 pax and flight deck squeezed to get away on time with a max take off weight aircraft into mad Egyptian ATC the like of which your 112 hour colleague has no comprehension of. Management, some of whom are on unimaginable bonuses says this is also absolutely safe so it must be.

[Twiglet1]

Any increase in fatigue or concern can only be perceived at this moment in time as Easyjet haven't moved to EASA FTL yet.
And rest assured if it was Crew being paid to fly on a day off for money there would be no fatigue involved.

[autobrake3]

Any increase in fatigue or concern can only be perceived at this moment in time as Easyjet haven't moved to EASA FTL yet.
And rest assured if it was Crew being paid to fly on a day off for money there would be no fatigue involved.

There is no perception of fatigue in easyjet with or without EASA FTL's. It is already a clear and huge problem. You clearly have a chip on your shoulder if you think your second point is true.

For reasons best known to the company and the CAA they already fly STN SSH STN with no level 2 variation. This is based upon barely achievable schedules and squeezing the turn time. LGW and LTN still have a level 2 variation to mitigate the fatigue induced by this rotation. Go figure.

[dash6]

Given the pre 13:00 start time,there is no need for a variation. This rotation,while long,is not unusual. Easily achievable from LGW. (Not Easyjet btw.)

[HeartyMeatballs]

Nobody's denying it can be done without a variation. What's worrying is that we could soon see:

Day 1: GLA BCN
Day 2: SSH
Day 3: NCE MAD
Day 4: PFO
Day 5: SSH

These are 'legal'. The contravene FRMS guidelines but guidelines are just a frame work and not hard coded.

[Twiglet1]

Hearty

When Easy transition to EASA FTL come back and tell me if that pattern happens.
AUTO3

You clearly have a chip on your shoulder if you think your second point is true.

Don't think so. Just know how Pilots think. Love you really

[737James]

I can tell you Sat or Sun evening down to PFO is no fun as well you know often you can pick up extra 40 min ground delay and get your inbound figures at the last min.

Only a few weeks ago due to good conditions and friendly ATC we ended up on stand at 21:38 local but then due to them not being able to handle volume of pax passing through had 25 min delay so end up with 2hr 5min on the ground.

[500 above]

I can tell you Sat or Sun evening down to PFO is no fun as well you know often you can pick up extra 40 min ground delay and get your inbound figures at the last min.

Only a few weeks ago due to good conditions and friendly ATC we ended up on stand at 21:38 local but then due to them not being able to handle volume of pax passing through had 25 min delay so end up with 2hr 5min on the ground.

The delays out of PFO always seem to originate from LCCC (Nicosia FIR en route capacity) though. Those boys are moving ATC centres soon, to a new building. This will hopefully improve the situation. Wednesdays are also really busy. Also of note, Cypriot ATC (obviously) have no co-ordination with Ercan or the connecting Turkish FIR's. That wont help if its a LTXX FIR delay.

The other issue at PFO is the coaching, there's simply not enough busses or bus drivers to cope. The airports answer to some Loco's was to build the 'holding pens' and have pax walk.

but then due to them not being able to handle volume of pax passing through

This is purely down to the fact that immigration are checking thoroughly all pax due to the recent problems elsewhere. They say they are opening more desks.

None of the above helps your duty day though!

[737James]

In my view the walkways and holding pens at PFO are a problem just waiting to happen and not well designed or managed.

The Eastern side of apron around stands3-4 is rather dark anyway why you would want 180+ pax walking across the apron dodging all the busses dropping inbounds off from other flights.

I have seen quite a few pax nearly get run over by ramp vehicles this year when I have been down there and is poorly run with no ramp agents visible so not very secure.

We had our full load of pax all dropped together on 3 buses so agents could move onto next flight problem being had the obvious queue to get up steps then ATC decided to park TCX 320 next to us so deafened a number of our pax agents just laugh.

I have also put a suggestion into our ops and planning that we perhaps look at moving outbound UKs until later so miss the mad 9-11 at PFO on Sats & Suns as I've found after 23:45 it is so quiet then I know this would mean later UK inbounds say 3-4am

[500 above]

I have also put a suggestion into our ops and planning

I would have your ops dept. contact the airport operator (Hermes Airports) and raise your valid safety concerns. I mostly agree with you, I'm based at PFO.

The holding pens must be inhumain for pax in todays real feel 41C heat.