EASA B2 Licence
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EASA B2 Licence
Hello, everyone. I am studying at Bachelor's degree and as a part of exams, we pass Part-66 Modules. So I choose B2-avionics techician modules. And while I am studying I want to know, what kind of licence and certificates i need(e.g. EWIS etc.). That's all in order to succesfully find a job after complete education. Right now I complete 3 modules.(Human Factor, Math, Physic). Thanks in Advance!)
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B2 licence modules
B2 licence modules are Module 1 to 10, 13 & 14
M1 Maths
M2 Physics
M3 Electrics
M4 Electronics = B2 level
M5 Digital = B2 level
M6 Hardware
M7 Maintenance practices - Multiple choice plus 2ea Essays
M8 Aerodynamics
M9 Human Factors - Multiple choice plus 1ea Essay
M10 Legislation - Multiple choice plus 1ea Essay
M13 Aircraft Aerodynamics. Structures
M14 Propulsion
M1 Maths
M2 Physics
M3 Electrics
M4 Electronics = B2 level
M5 Digital = B2 level
M6 Hardware
M7 Maintenance practices - Multiple choice plus 2ea Essays
M8 Aerodynamics
M9 Human Factors - Multiple choice plus 1ea Essay
M10 Legislation - Multiple choice plus 1ea Essay
M13 Aircraft Aerodynamics. Structures
M14 Propulsion
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Hi Assan, could you confirm that you are enrolled in a fully-approved full-time Basic Training course run by a Part 147-approved Training Organisation?
I ask only because some non-Part 147 courses do follow the curriculum laid down in EASA Part 66, in the guise of some other qualification.
A fully-approved course would include at least 800 hours Practcial workshop training, and at least 400 hours On-The-Job training in a Part 145-approved Maintenance organisation. The OJT must be arranged and monitored by the Part 147 TO that is running the course.
I wouldn't worry too much about EWIS, Fuel Tank Safety and Human Factors courses unless and until you want to get a job in a Part 145 Maintenance Organisation. (Note that the Part 145 HF requirement is not the same as the Part 66 Module 9 requirement.) When needed, you can do these courses quickly, on line even, and they have a 2-year validity, so leaving them to the last minute saves money.
Whether you are on an approved Part 147 course or not, you would have to complete several years work experience to get an AME licence. This is when you would need those certificates.
I ask only because some non-Part 147 courses do follow the curriculum laid down in EASA Part 66, in the guise of some other qualification.
A fully-approved course would include at least 800 hours Practcial workshop training, and at least 400 hours On-The-Job training in a Part 145-approved Maintenance organisation. The OJT must be arranged and monitored by the Part 147 TO that is running the course.
I wouldn't worry too much about EWIS, Fuel Tank Safety and Human Factors courses unless and until you want to get a job in a Part 145 Maintenance Organisation. (Note that the Part 145 HF requirement is not the same as the Part 66 Module 9 requirement.) When needed, you can do these courses quickly, on line even, and they have a 2-year validity, so leaving them to the last minute saves money.
Whether you are on an approved Part 147 course or not, you would have to complete several years work experience to get an AME licence. This is when you would need those certificates.
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Hello, yes, i study at the Institut that have the part-147 licence. We are training to pass Part-66 Modules. I don't know about how much hours we have. But our study include only Part-66 modules, and as i inderstood OJT our institut doesn't provide. After complete 4 years we will have full set of B1 or B2 modules and then we have to pass OJT and 3 years work-experience by ourself. So that is why I ask about additional certificates. I think that after graduate I can face to problem with finding a job. So I want to be as competitive as it possible in my situation. And want to collect various certificates for search my first job without experience.
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Hi Assan,
A fully-approved Basic Training Course for a Cat B 1.1 licence requires 2,400 hours, including minimums of 1,200 hours Classroom work (Modules and examination) 800 hours of Practical Training and 400 hours of OJT.
In a College in the UK, and elsewhere in Europe as far as I know, that will take 2 years or less, including the OJT at a Part 145 MRO.
Cat A requires much less.
The Part 147 Training Organisation that runs the fully-approved course MUST arrange and monitor the OJT, because it must remain in control of the whole course.
If it does not do that it is not allowed to issue a Basic Training Certificate.
You do not mention the Practical Training as being included by your institute.
Based solely on what you have said, it seems to me that your institute is not only conning you (4 years to pass the Modules, indeed. The teaching must be appalling, if it takes that long), it is in clear violation of Part 66 and Part 147 in many respects.
The risk to you is that if and when the NAA or EASA catch up with this, all your certificates may be declared invalid, and you will have lost all the money spent, as well as at least 4 years. Students at a Training Organisation in Greece had this problem quite recently, when the NAA/EASA discovered that the TO had violated the rules..
You should deal with this problem first; it is pointless to worry about EWIS and so on.
When you have a valid Basic Training Certificate in your hand, you can move on to obtaining your work experience.
One possible explanation of what your Institute may be up to, is that they know that the course they are offering is not the fully-approved course as described above, and is in fact simply a non-approved course in which you obtain your Module passes. IF that is so, they are lying to you in the knowledge that you are, naturally, unaware of the rules.
If that is so, you do NOT need to do the Practical Training or the OJT, but you WOULD need to do 5 years work experience. Moreover, you could do all the Modules in much less time with home study, taking the exams when you are ready at any Part 147-approved MTO, or the NAA if you are in an EASA Member State.
I think you should contact EASA (or the NAA if you are in a Member State) directly, tell them exactly what you have been told, and ask their advice. I would not give the Institute any more money until you have got it sorted out, because I think you might be wasting it.
Please name the institute; it would make it much easier to see what they are up to.
A fully-approved Basic Training Course for a Cat B 1.1 licence requires 2,400 hours, including minimums of 1,200 hours Classroom work (Modules and examination) 800 hours of Practical Training and 400 hours of OJT.
In a College in the UK, and elsewhere in Europe as far as I know, that will take 2 years or less, including the OJT at a Part 145 MRO.
Cat A requires much less.
The Part 147 Training Organisation that runs the fully-approved course MUST arrange and monitor the OJT, because it must remain in control of the whole course.
If it does not do that it is not allowed to issue a Basic Training Certificate.
You do not mention the Practical Training as being included by your institute.
Based solely on what you have said, it seems to me that your institute is not only conning you (4 years to pass the Modules, indeed. The teaching must be appalling, if it takes that long), it is in clear violation of Part 66 and Part 147 in many respects.
The risk to you is that if and when the NAA or EASA catch up with this, all your certificates may be declared invalid, and you will have lost all the money spent, as well as at least 4 years. Students at a Training Organisation in Greece had this problem quite recently, when the NAA/EASA discovered that the TO had violated the rules..
You should deal with this problem first; it is pointless to worry about EWIS and so on.
When you have a valid Basic Training Certificate in your hand, you can move on to obtaining your work experience.
One possible explanation of what your Institute may be up to, is that they know that the course they are offering is not the fully-approved course as described above, and is in fact simply a non-approved course in which you obtain your Module passes. IF that is so, they are lying to you in the knowledge that you are, naturally, unaware of the rules.
If that is so, you do NOT need to do the Practical Training or the OJT, but you WOULD need to do 5 years work experience. Moreover, you could do all the Modules in much less time with home study, taking the exams when you are ready at any Part 147-approved MTO, or the NAA if you are in an EASA Member State.
I think you should contact EASA (or the NAA if you are in a Member State) directly, tell them exactly what you have been told, and ask their advice. I would not give the Institute any more money until you have got it sorted out, because I think you might be wasting it.
Please name the institute; it would make it much easier to see what they are up to.
Last edited by Capot; 30th Mar 2015 at 08:58.
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So, i am not sure. But my teacher of Aviation Legalisation told me that our institut not a full part-147 organisation. And after i take a modules I have to work experience. But not 5 year, he told me that it is a 3 year for B2 and B1. And 2 year for A. So, about OJT he told that OJT I will complete in the Airlines where I will work. And type training too. Our institute have only A320/319 type training. So, it looks clear.
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Hi Assan,
I am sorry to have to tell you that your teacher of Aviation Legislation is talking rubbish. He/she clearly has little grasp of the Part 66 requirements, and does not understand the meaning of the terms "OJT".
You have now managed to get the admission that the "Institute" is not Part 147-approved. You are wasting your time and money with these people; running a 4-year course to pass the Modules is absurd, and what they are telling you about the requirements is nonsense.
As a non-approved organisation, this Institute falls outside the control of EASA and/or a National Aviation Authority. They can do what they like and there is little that their victims can do about it except walk away.
I recommend you find a genuine Part 147-approved training organisation and discuss it with them.
I am sorry to have to tell you that your teacher of Aviation Legislation is talking rubbish. He/she clearly has little grasp of the Part 66 requirements, and does not understand the meaning of the terms "OJT".
You have now managed to get the admission that the "Institute" is not Part 147-approved. You are wasting your time and money with these people; running a 4-year course to pass the Modules is absurd, and what they are telling you about the requirements is nonsense.
As a non-approved organisation, this Institute falls outside the control of EASA and/or a National Aviation Authority. They can do what they like and there is little that their victims can do about it except walk away.
I recommend you find a genuine Part 147-approved training organisation and discuss it with them.
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Good Night,
So , firstly, 4 years. 3 year for pass modules and last year for complete study and take a Bachelor's degree. Our study including academic topics that contain modules subjects and additional like "English for aviation", "techical drawing" etc. that is why our study 4-year long. Secondly, i can't name the Instute cuz i am afraid that is something happened it will be my faults. But i am sure, that it legal, because there many students took modules. And the last, can you explain what is OJT, i tried to search it in google, but don't really inderstand.
King regards for answering! Have a nice day!
So , firstly, 4 years. 3 year for pass modules and last year for complete study and take a Bachelor's degree. Our study including academic topics that contain modules subjects and additional like "English for aviation", "techical drawing" etc. that is why our study 4-year long. Secondly, i can't name the Instute cuz i am afraid that is something happened it will be my faults. But i am sure, that it legal, because there many students took modules. And the last, can you explain what is OJT, i tried to search it in google, but don't really inderstand.
King regards for answering! Have a nice day!
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OJT is On the Job training.
I'll start by explaining what is does NOT mean. It is not Practical Training, which is done (for the Basic Training course) in a workshop to the syllabus set out in Part 66, with an instructor and a class.
OJT is NOT "work experience", either. Work experience is the performance of tasks as part of a normal work programme. It is supervised to the extent that any work would be, depending on the qualification level of the person and work required. Work experience leading to a licence issue or a type rating must be relevant to the qualification sought, done in a Part 145 environment (there are exceptions, eg military experience) and above all carefully logged and signed off for audit purposes.
OJT is structured training done with an instructor with a pre-determined programme while working on live aircraft in a Part 145-approved MRO. The Part 147-approved Training organisation that is running the Basic Training or Type Training of which the OJT is a part is responsible for arranging and monitoring the training and its documentation, while the staff of the Part 145 are responsible for the quality and certification of the work done in the usual way. The OJT done as part of a Basic Training course must cover all areas of the aircraft.
When you said that you have been told that you must "find your own OJT" alarm bells rang for several reasons. Firstly, OJT is only done, for Basic Training purposes, as part of a fully-approved course. By definition, if the Institute is not offering that, the course is not fully-approved. Secondly, in that situation you do not have to do any OJT, and the Institute seems not to understand that.
There are two routes to a Part 66 AME Cat A or Cat B Licence. The first is to do a fully-approved Basic Training course, which i have described in previous posts. This gets you a Basic Training Certificate. You must then do 2 years work experience (as above) after which you can apply for a Licence (without type rating - LWTR). The course is usually run over about 2 years, and can only be offered by a Training Organisation with a Part 147 approval for Basic Training. There are not many of those; there are a lot more TOs with Type Rating approval only.
The other way, the "non-approved route", is to pass all the Module examinations, without doing any "approved" training for them. The examinations are run periodically by National Aviation Authorities in the EASA States in their language. They can also be run by Part 147-approved Training Organisations (Basic Training approved) either as part of a fully-approved course, and/or for private candidates simply taking the examinations. NAAs and TOs charge an examination fee, but that is the only cost.
Some NAAs run examinations outside their territory; for example the UK CAA runs examinations in the Gulf and India, I believe.
We have seen that the work experience required if you have received a Basic Training Certificate is 2 years. If you have not done the fully-approved course, and simply have Pass Certificates for all the Modules, you must have 5 years work experience logged before you can apply for a licence.
The reason is simple. The fully-approved course includes Practical Training and OJT, and the "non-approved" route does not. So the additional 3 years work experience is to ensure that you have acquired the necessary hand-skills and knowledge of maintenance practices.
Your Institute is offering a non-approved, 4-year course to get the Modules only, which is ridiculous and a waste of your time and money. (Sorry!) After you complete that you will have to get 5 years work experience, but you need NOT do any "OJT". Thus, a minimum of 9 years to get the licence.
Most people start work to get the 5 years experience, and then study for and take the Modules, one by one, in any order, during those 5 years. They earn a wage, however small, and only pay for the exams. This way, it takes 5 years to get to the LWTR.
That's why I think, from the information you have provided so far in this thread, that what your Institute is offering is almost fraudulent. Either they realise that it is the worst possible way to get a Part 66 licence but are taking students' money in any case, or they are simply totally ignorant about the subject they are teaching, but taking your money anyway.
(I am slightly uncertain about the minimum time for work experience for the "non-approved" route, and can't check it where I am today. But even if it is not 5 years, it is certainly be much longer than the time needed by someone with a Basic Training Certificate from a fully-approved course, for the reason explained above.).
I'll start by explaining what is does NOT mean. It is not Practical Training, which is done (for the Basic Training course) in a workshop to the syllabus set out in Part 66, with an instructor and a class.
OJT is NOT "work experience", either. Work experience is the performance of tasks as part of a normal work programme. It is supervised to the extent that any work would be, depending on the qualification level of the person and work required. Work experience leading to a licence issue or a type rating must be relevant to the qualification sought, done in a Part 145 environment (there are exceptions, eg military experience) and above all carefully logged and signed off for audit purposes.
OJT is structured training done with an instructor with a pre-determined programme while working on live aircraft in a Part 145-approved MRO. The Part 147-approved Training organisation that is running the Basic Training or Type Training of which the OJT is a part is responsible for arranging and monitoring the training and its documentation, while the staff of the Part 145 are responsible for the quality and certification of the work done in the usual way. The OJT done as part of a Basic Training course must cover all areas of the aircraft.
When you said that you have been told that you must "find your own OJT" alarm bells rang for several reasons. Firstly, OJT is only done, for Basic Training purposes, as part of a fully-approved course. By definition, if the Institute is not offering that, the course is not fully-approved. Secondly, in that situation you do not have to do any OJT, and the Institute seems not to understand that.
There are two routes to a Part 66 AME Cat A or Cat B Licence. The first is to do a fully-approved Basic Training course, which i have described in previous posts. This gets you a Basic Training Certificate. You must then do 2 years work experience (as above) after which you can apply for a Licence (without type rating - LWTR). The course is usually run over about 2 years, and can only be offered by a Training Organisation with a Part 147 approval for Basic Training. There are not many of those; there are a lot more TOs with Type Rating approval only.
The other way, the "non-approved route", is to pass all the Module examinations, without doing any "approved" training for them. The examinations are run periodically by National Aviation Authorities in the EASA States in their language. They can also be run by Part 147-approved Training Organisations (Basic Training approved) either as part of a fully-approved course, and/or for private candidates simply taking the examinations. NAAs and TOs charge an examination fee, but that is the only cost.
Some NAAs run examinations outside their territory; for example the UK CAA runs examinations in the Gulf and India, I believe.
We have seen that the work experience required if you have received a Basic Training Certificate is 2 years. If you have not done the fully-approved course, and simply have Pass Certificates for all the Modules, you must have 5 years work experience logged before you can apply for a licence.
The reason is simple. The fully-approved course includes Practical Training and OJT, and the "non-approved" route does not. So the additional 3 years work experience is to ensure that you have acquired the necessary hand-skills and knowledge of maintenance practices.
Your Institute is offering a non-approved, 4-year course to get the Modules only, which is ridiculous and a waste of your time and money. (Sorry!) After you complete that you will have to get 5 years work experience, but you need NOT do any "OJT". Thus, a minimum of 9 years to get the licence.
Most people start work to get the 5 years experience, and then study for and take the Modules, one by one, in any order, during those 5 years. They earn a wage, however small, and only pay for the exams. This way, it takes 5 years to get to the LWTR.
That's why I think, from the information you have provided so far in this thread, that what your Institute is offering is almost fraudulent. Either they realise that it is the worst possible way to get a Part 66 licence but are taking students' money in any case, or they are simply totally ignorant about the subject they are teaching, but taking your money anyway.
(I am slightly uncertain about the minimum time for work experience for the "non-approved" route, and can't check it where I am today. But even if it is not 5 years, it is certainly be much longer than the time needed by someone with a Basic Training Certificate from a fully-approved course, for the reason explained above.).
Last edited by Capot; 1st Apr 2015 at 13:48.
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Capot, you're right: it's 5 years for cat B1.1, B1.3 and B2 on non structured way, 3 years if skilled worker (to be accepted by NAA). In case of A, B1.2, B1.4 and B3 it's respectively 3 and 2 years.
I do agree with your opinion above the school, wasted money.
I do agree with your opinion above the school, wasted money.
