Bachelor's degree getting me nowhere - advice needed!!
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Bachelor's degree getting me nowhere - advice needed!!
G'day all.
I am posting this thread to get some direction and advice with regards to pursuing a career in maintenance/safety engineering. I have recently graduated as an aeronautical engineer with honours from an Australian university and I have been looking at graduate opportunities in the country for almost 7 months now.
A lot of my fellow graduates have leaped into the so called mining boom in Australia and have found jobs in Mechanical or other engineering disciplines. However I haven't been so lucky with a job because I really want to get into the aeronautical industry (so thats what I've been focusing on) and have a real passion for aircraft. I have done some exhaustive looking around in the past few months and found a handful of opportunities with regionals, the bigger airlines and some engineering companies (aero structural design with FEA analysis etc.) The issue is, not a single airline/company that I found is hiring graduates at the moment. Some say they aren't a big enough operator to take on graduates, others say we are not in a position to offer graduate employment. I also went to an external 'aviation employment agency' to ask if they could be of any help. They replied with a solid 'NO' and also told me that the last time they helped an airline advertise grad opportunities was close to a year ago. Tried the good old and effective way of door knocking and actually got some correspondence with engineers, without any luck ofcourse. I've tried pushing everyone to at least offer some work experience but they can't help me because I am not a uni student anymore and paperwork can only be done through 'accredited institutions' and not individuals.
Am I being too persistent in finding an operational/maintenance/safety engineering role right now? I know these roles have existed in the past and the employment outlook seemed promising at all the career fairs and what not throughout uni
but all of a sudden everything seems to have dried up. I know there is a decent requirement of AMEs and LAMEs as well as apprentices in Australia at the moment. The state government has initiatives in place to fund the training and development of such trainees but the requirement for engineers apart from the technician level is extremely limited. A lot of my enquiries for entry level engineering positions come back with a "sure!! our apprenticeship starts at...apply now!"
I feel like my 4 year degree was a total waste of time because these apprenticeships (which I envy
) are offered on a similar timeframe but with better job prospects! I understand the ame or lame role is hands on but having done some interviews in the past, the department head or the engineer in-charge asking me the technical questions had come up through the ame/lame ranks rather than having done a 4 year bachelors degree. I can't afford to undergo an apprenticeship at this point, both financially and time wise. But I can and will force myself if I make an informed decision and if it will improve my career prospects in the long run. Should I look into apprenticeships or should I keep pursuing for a grad position? I have looked into the GA sector, the Airlines as well as core engineering companies for opportunities. Can someone suggest any other avenues that I may have missed in my efforts? Ofcourse I am not looking to be spoon fed but any leads to opportunities or opinions about my general direction in seeking employment, will be really appreciated! Please give me any advice you can, it means a lot to me at this point in time!
Cheers
p.s - Haven't done so yet, but I am really close to looking at opportunities away from home and into countries where an aussie would have the right to work and live etc.
I am posting this thread to get some direction and advice with regards to pursuing a career in maintenance/safety engineering. I have recently graduated as an aeronautical engineer with honours from an Australian university and I have been looking at graduate opportunities in the country for almost 7 months now.
A lot of my fellow graduates have leaped into the so called mining boom in Australia and have found jobs in Mechanical or other engineering disciplines. However I haven't been so lucky with a job because I really want to get into the aeronautical industry (so thats what I've been focusing on) and have a real passion for aircraft. I have done some exhaustive looking around in the past few months and found a handful of opportunities with regionals, the bigger airlines and some engineering companies (aero structural design with FEA analysis etc.) The issue is, not a single airline/company that I found is hiring graduates at the moment. Some say they aren't a big enough operator to take on graduates, others say we are not in a position to offer graduate employment. I also went to an external 'aviation employment agency' to ask if they could be of any help. They replied with a solid 'NO' and also told me that the last time they helped an airline advertise grad opportunities was close to a year ago. Tried the good old and effective way of door knocking and actually got some correspondence with engineers, without any luck ofcourse. I've tried pushing everyone to at least offer some work experience but they can't help me because I am not a uni student anymore and paperwork can only be done through 'accredited institutions' and not individuals.
Am I being too persistent in finding an operational/maintenance/safety engineering role right now? I know these roles have existed in the past and the employment outlook seemed promising at all the career fairs and what not throughout uni
but all of a sudden everything seems to have dried up. I know there is a decent requirement of AMEs and LAMEs as well as apprentices in Australia at the moment. The state government has initiatives in place to fund the training and development of such trainees but the requirement for engineers apart from the technician level is extremely limited. A lot of my enquiries for entry level engineering positions come back with a "sure!! our apprenticeship starts at...apply now!" I feel like my 4 year degree was a total waste of time because these apprenticeships (which I envy
) are offered on a similar timeframe but with better job prospects! I understand the ame or lame role is hands on but having done some interviews in the past, the department head or the engineer in-charge asking me the technical questions had come up through the ame/lame ranks rather than having done a 4 year bachelors degree. I can't afford to undergo an apprenticeship at this point, both financially and time wise. But I can and will force myself if I make an informed decision and if it will improve my career prospects in the long run. Should I look into apprenticeships or should I keep pursuing for a grad position? I have looked into the GA sector, the Airlines as well as core engineering companies for opportunities. Can someone suggest any other avenues that I may have missed in my efforts? Ofcourse I am not looking to be spoon fed but any leads to opportunities or opinions about my general direction in seeking employment, will be really appreciated! Please give me any advice you can, it means a lot to me at this point in time!Cheers
p.s - Haven't done so yet, but I am really close to looking at opportunities away from home and into countries where an aussie would have the right to work and live etc.
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Have you considered the RAAF? They usually have engineering officer positions. Its not a bad life in the RAAF especially if your an officer. They also have some new kit coming so probably some good project work. Could get you through another door when your service tenure is complete. The problem (as you probably now realise) is that multiple Uni's pump out Aero's every year - but Australia doesn't have the demand - no industry.
All the best
aveng
All the best
aveng
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you havent tried everywhere
Join the Royal Aeronautical Society - despite being a predmoinantly UK based group, there is an Australian division. Once you're a member, you can recieve the membership benefits, which include career guidance and help. It is a very good service and should help get you on track as well as giving you heads-up on less advertised positions.
Unfortunately an undergraduate degree in Aeronautical Engineering won't be much use in the physical maintanence side of the industry - its a whole different skill/knowledge set. You're destined for a swivel chair im afraid.
Unfortunately an undergraduate degree in Aeronautical Engineering won't be much use in the physical maintanence side of the industry - its a whole different skill/knowledge set. You're destined for a swivel chair im afraid.
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There are jobs on the international scene , but it will be an office job and starting salary will be awful , that said the promotion and career prospects are pretty good . Try the Middle East , Emirates , Etihad , Qatar etc .
Good luck !
Good luck !
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I'm looking at the same situation as you, where I shall be graduating this time next year and wanting to go into the maintenance side. You need to get a licence, that's the first step.
I know there is a college in Queensland called Queensland Aerospace Pty Ltd, where you can get your licence from as I have looked at it myself as I want to move out of the UK upon graduation due to jobs. Also contact airlines as most have apprenticeships for engineers from what I have found, however, I've found that a lot don't like graduates for an LAE role.
One relatively successful route I have found is looking into the private jet side of aviation as they need LAE's and therefore they (in the UK at least) put people through apprenticeships with third party companies.
Be prepared to send out a lot of emails! Most of the time you'll get no reply but if you're persistant then you'll find some people are keen to help.
Look at the CASA website and search for Part-66 licence and that'll give you all the info you need to start off on the licenced route!
Hope this helps, I've picked all this up from a post that I made on here a few months ago along with the replies from my emails and also on placements during uni holidays.
The link below is for the post I made, it's obviously aimed at the UK but apart from airlines/companies the info is pretty much the same from what I've found.
http://www.pprune.org/engineers-tech...engineers.html
I know there is a college in Queensland called Queensland Aerospace Pty Ltd, where you can get your licence from as I have looked at it myself as I want to move out of the UK upon graduation due to jobs. Also contact airlines as most have apprenticeships for engineers from what I have found, however, I've found that a lot don't like graduates for an LAE role.
One relatively successful route I have found is looking into the private jet side of aviation as they need LAE's and therefore they (in the UK at least) put people through apprenticeships with third party companies.
Be prepared to send out a lot of emails! Most of the time you'll get no reply but if you're persistant then you'll find some people are keen to help.
Look at the CASA website and search for Part-66 licence and that'll give you all the info you need to start off on the licenced route!
Hope this helps, I've picked all this up from a post that I made on here a few months ago along with the replies from my emails and also on placements during uni holidays.
The link below is for the post I made, it's obviously aimed at the UK but apart from airlines/companies the info is pretty much the same from what I've found.
http://www.pprune.org/engineers-tech...engineers.html
Aircraft Maintenance Training // EASA Part 66 // Aircraft Maintenance Apprenticeships
You don't have to admit to having a degree!!!!!!
Ironic really, the great thing about a maintenance licence was that you did not need a degree. Just hard work, a decent education and application.
Now we have graduates wanting to jump ship to get their hands dirty and earn a decent living.
On the upside the standard of crewroom conversation should improve and there will probably be less unfinished Sun crosswords.
Aircraft maintenance is a great leveller, when your freezing your nuts off in winter and cant feel your fingers those days in university will seem to be just a happy dream.
The route you are choosing is not going to be an easy ride. Don't forget to pack your sense of humour, you are going to need it.
You have my genuine best wishes for the future and hopefully a long career ahead.
On the subject of the link CHC have a large Australian operation so a route might exist through there.
You don't have to admit to having a degree!!!!!!
Ironic really, the great thing about a maintenance licence was that you did not need a degree. Just hard work, a decent education and application.
Now we have graduates wanting to jump ship to get their hands dirty and earn a decent living.
On the upside the standard of crewroom conversation should improve and there will probably be less unfinished Sun crosswords.
Aircraft maintenance is a great leveller, when your freezing your nuts off in winter and cant feel your fingers those days in university will seem to be just a happy dream.
The route you are choosing is not going to be an easy ride. Don't forget to pack your sense of humour, you are going to need it.
You have my genuine best wishes for the future and hopefully a long career ahead.
On the subject of the link CHC have a large Australian operation so a route might exist through there.
Last edited by ericferret; 24th May 2013 at 22:23.
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Thanks for all the replies guys.
I have applied for the RAAF and other services as well, I am currently undergoing the ADF recruitment process but the aero jobs are all closed at the moment.
I hoping that by the time I get to my Officer selection board, a few opportunities will have opened up.
Since posting I have been talking to training organisations about "pre-voc" courses and subsequent ways to become a LAME. It has become apparent that a maintenance job after an apprenticeship is almost 5 to 6 years away!
philw492 thank you for sharing your post. I had read it some time ago and it was what prompted me to get some opinions from people down under. Thank you for those pointers I will definitely have a look into them.
I have applied for the RAAF and other services as well, I am currently undergoing the ADF recruitment process but the aero jobs are all closed at the moment.
I hoping that by the time I get to my Officer selection board, a few opportunities will have opened up.
Since posting I have been talking to training organisations about "pre-voc" courses and subsequent ways to become a LAME. It has become apparent that a maintenance job after an apprenticeship is almost 5 to 6 years away!
philw492 thank you for sharing your post. I had read it some time ago and it was what prompted me to get some opinions from people down under. Thank you for those pointers I will definitely have a look into them.
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Not a problem, I'm hoping to move down under myself so I've been trying to get contacts and get help from over there. Unfortunately I hit a dead end, but ah well I'll be there next week, landing in Melbourne a week on Wednesday so for now it'll just have to be a holiday every so often!
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As a Trainee Engineer at BAE Systems, i would definitely recommend those who are based in the UK looking for these opportunities to enroll on a PEO (Performing Engineering Operations or something like that) course.
Certainly, in Scotland, Ayr College offer this course, and all of the Ryanair (Prestwick Aircraft Maintenance Ltd) B1 and B2 Apprentices are put through this program whilst studying their modules at Ayr College. Ryanair themselves tend to take on around 6 - 12 apprentices a year. Competition is fierce, as are the interview processes, but it will set you well on your way.
Sorry I cant be much help on the Australia front. But certainly for those of us in the UK, Ayrshire Scotland is the place to be.
To name a few companies there are Ryanair, Intertec, Assystem, BAE Systems, UTC Aerospace, Spirit Aerosystems, British Airways at Glasgow etc.
Hope that is of some use.
Certainly, in Scotland, Ayr College offer this course, and all of the Ryanair (Prestwick Aircraft Maintenance Ltd) B1 and B2 Apprentices are put through this program whilst studying their modules at Ayr College. Ryanair themselves tend to take on around 6 - 12 apprentices a year. Competition is fierce, as are the interview processes, but it will set you well on your way.
Sorry I cant be much help on the Australia front. But certainly for those of us in the UK, Ayrshire Scotland is the place to be.
To name a few companies there are Ryanair, Intertec, Assystem, BAE Systems, UTC Aerospace, Spirit Aerosystems, British Airways at Glasgow etc.
Hope that is of some use.
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Not good news unfortunately
Having recently retired after 40 years as a Licenced Engineer B2 and C cat, the only advice I can offer is to try and get practical experience, even if its unpaid work !
Here in UK there are hundreds of 'enthusiasts' who have effectively undermined the employment prospects of genuine aircraft mechanics by working for nothing - usually in small GA outfits or on restoration projects.
Unfortunately the industry in general has a dislike of 'graduates'. I can recall some with a poor 'work ethic' and others so hamfisted I wouldn't let them near a bicycle, let alone an aircraft - yet they had glowing uni references and degrees !
A grad can get employment with large companies however, usually in the fields of planning and maint control - these are desk jobs and the starting salaries are poor due to the need to 'prove oneself' initially to the employer and too many people chasing too few jobs. However, stick at it and in a few years you might earn decent money.
I was an indentured apprentice (5 years) and learned 'on the job' along with day release to a technical college for the theory side. This got me City & Guilds certificates which at that time allowed me to bypass some of the theory papers on the old ARB (CAA) licensing route.
If you want to earn decent money working on aircraft in a practical way then a licence is essential - unfortunately the graduate route doesn't cut it with most employers.
However I don't envy anyone starting out from scratch on the current EASA licensing procedure - give me the old ARB and CAA any day !
Here in UK there are hundreds of 'enthusiasts' who have effectively undermined the employment prospects of genuine aircraft mechanics by working for nothing - usually in small GA outfits or on restoration projects.
Unfortunately the industry in general has a dislike of 'graduates'. I can recall some with a poor 'work ethic' and others so hamfisted I wouldn't let them near a bicycle, let alone an aircraft - yet they had glowing uni references and degrees !
A grad can get employment with large companies however, usually in the fields of planning and maint control - these are desk jobs and the starting salaries are poor due to the need to 'prove oneself' initially to the employer and too many people chasing too few jobs. However, stick at it and in a few years you might earn decent money.
I was an indentured apprentice (5 years) and learned 'on the job' along with day release to a technical college for the theory side. This got me City & Guilds certificates which at that time allowed me to bypass some of the theory papers on the old ARB (CAA) licensing route.
If you want to earn decent money working on aircraft in a practical way then a licence is essential - unfortunately the graduate route doesn't cut it with most employers.
However I don't envy anyone starting out from scratch on the current EASA licensing procedure - give me the old ARB and CAA any day !
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Adding up
He is reported as being 63, with 40 years experience.
63-40 = 23 not 13 as you seemed to suggest Eric
The Doc
63-40 = 23 not 13 as you seemed to suggest Eric
The Doc
Last edited by Lear_doctor; 4th Jun 2013 at 05:52.
