Organophosphate Poisoning

[cogs006]

I would like to hear from any ground (or former) engineers who are suffering health problems due to tri-crescyl-phosphate/tri-ortho-crescyl-phosphate poisoning. The biggest offender for this is Exxon Mobil Jet Oil II and in the case of hydraulic systems using the mineral oil, Shell H515/OM 15.

It is also in a host of other oils, paints, thinnerssolvents etc.

Symptoms include: Arthralgia (joint aches with no swelling), muscle weakness, constant fatigue or fatigue easily, lethargy, particularly in the morning and energy tends to increase as the days wears on, ongoing headaches (will go away after several months/years), short term memory loss, confusion, inability to concetrate properly or for long, forgetfulness, irritability, dermatitis (not always), sensitised skin, nausea (especially in early weeks of poisoning), heightened sense of smell, multiple chemical sensitivity (MCS-especially to volitiles such as fuels, thinners, solvents etc.), blurred or hard to focus vision, central nervouse system damage (tingling/numbness in toes and fingers).

The most common ways of entry into the body are throgh skin contact and breathing the vapours. It's effects are accumulative and it sits in the fat tissues and the body cannot break it down. Only 5ml of pure TCP/TOCP ingested can be fatal. This is pretty savage stuff.

LATEX GLOVES DO NOT PROTECT AGAINST IT. NITRILE OR PVC ARE THE ONLY BARRIERS.

I hope this gives a clearer picture. I do apologise for my lack of information.

[nitro rig driver]

It might help you state what symptoms you should be looking for
engineers suffer from many things most of which have nothing nothing to do with oil

[Golden Rivet]

..............many emanate from left over galley food

Ground engineers are well are aware of the risks from engine oil. The sensible ones wear latex gloves for topping up the oils/hydraulics.

[cogs006]

You are so right, sensible engineers these days put on gloves for replenishments. In fact they use Nitrile or PVC gloves as latex gloves do NOT provide a barrier against organophosphates and mineral and synthetic oils for that matter. Also a certified activated charcoal canister breathin mask should be worn if the system to be replenished or inspected is hot when opened up to avoid breathin the vapours. When I started my apprenticeship in 1979 OH&S was all but non existant and the oil companies etc wre not forthcoming in telling what nasties were in their products and the associated health hazards. Mobil did not come clean that Jet Oil II had TCP in it until 1997, 43 years after it was developed and used. Another not to this is that most modern day herbicides and some pesticides are organophosphates and their effect is accumulative as it sits in the fat tissue and the body cannot break it down.

[PhilM]

When going through our training we have been many a time warned about the dangers of Skydrol, able to give you cancer, stings like fook etc!, but nothing was ever mentioned of engine oil! - assumed it was pretty safe stuff!

If JetII is a big offender, where do we stand with the likes of BP Turbo 2197?

Mind you, I always wear gloves anyway (not wanting to get hands dirty....), and my company has recently switched from latex to blue nitrile, so were pretty well protected...just a lack of awareness?

[thapr2]

PhilM

The MSDS of BP2197 states it contains between 1 and 5% TCP. The fact is that it actually does not contain quite as much as Mobil Jet II but you should still use the same precautions.
I know some people would perhaps consider not using gloves or masks (when required) but my recommendation would be to always air on the side of caution when using ANY Engine Oil or Hydraulic fluid. If supplied then use PPE and if not supplied then request it and be extra vigilant especially when handling used oil.

[warp factor]

Are we talking big fat lawsuits,or premature death.
4 on 4 off shift has the same effect!

[legza kimbo]

cogs, All the symptoms that you mention, can be found in most of the engineers in our crewroom, to varying degrees, especially the memory loss! On a serious note, is there anywhere that we may be able to be tested, to put our minds at rest, or do we have to keel over and find out from the post mortem.
My last company only supplied latex gloves. I found it quite disturbing to find that when I was "protecting" myself with them, getting stuck into jobs with jet2 and H515, I was, in fact not helping myself at all.
Any info you could supply on tests etc, would be gratefully received.

[Psiontech]

Testing for Organophosphate Poisoning

Hi to you all
If you are concerned over the levels of Organophosphates in your system you can get tested, the test was developed for farmers using sheep dip I think but you can give the Lab a ring a put forward your concerns and ask them if they can test you given your circumstance.

I am not an expert but I know someone who is, I’ll ask and get back to you.

You need to speak to the BIOLOGICAL MONITORING section of
Health & Safety Laboratory
Harper Hill
Buxton
Derbyshire
Telephone: [phone]

http://www.hsl.gov.uk/index.htm
http://www.hsl.gov.uk/capabilities/biolist.htm

[legza kimbo]

Psiontech,
Thanks for the info, I'll get in contact and see if they can help. Does the use of barrier cream reduce the effects?

[mono]

Not wishing to jump the gun here but "the moon is made of green cheese"

Just because it has been written by you does not make it true. So Cogs, can you please supply your source for the statement that Latex gloves are not a barrier. data sheets that I have read relating to for example Aeroshell 560, do state that organophosphates are present but state that impervious gloves should be worn. If you are wearing latex gloves while handling this oil and after removing the gloves there is no oil underneath them how can the oil have penetrated your skin??

If you can provide a credible source we can act on the information. We need data not rumour!.

[BigEndBob]

Blow up a latex balloon (with several knots) or glove, leave it a few days, and it goes down.
So how as the air got out?

[Gaspasser]

This whole problem has been around for over twenty years, and oils like Mobil Jet 2 have been around for at least thirty years. Its nothing new and is well documented elsewhere.
The Department of Health are currently investigating this problem.
Go to http://www.advisorybodies.doh.gov.uk...food/index.htm for more info

[primreamer]

Try this link www.siri.org/msds put Mobil Jet 2 into search function and then click on drop down list item. Gives a run down of health hazards.

[mono]

I am not denying the health hazards of Jet II or any other aero engine oil. I am querying the statement that latex gloves are not a barrier.

I don't expect to take a 3 day bath in the stuff big end bob just wear them during any replenishment, componant changes, etc.

[glhcarl]

Originally Posted by BigEndBob

Blow up a latex balloon (with several knots) or glove, leave it a few days, and it goes down.
So how as the air got out?

What is thicker air or oil? Doctors use laytex gloves to protect themselves from blood born diseases so I think they will protet you from the ravages of killer Jet II.

Suggestion: Take a latex glove and fill it with dry ice. Tie it off with a wire tie and sit back and watch. Sooner or later the air will leak out (all at once through a big hole accompanied by a big noise).

[Psiontech]

I hope this helps for the concerned out there.

Latex gloves DO NOT protect against Organophosphates they get through some how (don’t ask me how I am an engineer too not a chemist) then when they are trapped between the glove and your skin as more get through the latex the concentration increases.

In aero oil the really nasty component is Tricresyl Phosphate CAS RN [68952-35-2].
Quote “Possible physiologic targets include male reproductive tissues, nerve tissue, fetal tissue".
Refer to this data sheet for more information
http://www.joaptsc.navy.mil/MSDS/cob...B68952-35-2%22

[419]

The quotes below are a few of many found on Google.
Fair enough, a lot of them are talking about much stronger concentrations of organophosphates than found in oils, but as OP poisoning has a cumulative effect over many years, why take the risk.
Who wants go blind when they are 60, and say "sorry, you were right about the gloves"
I didn't realise that organophosphates are the main ingredients in nearly all widely used nerve gases!

Respiratory and skin protection is required for health care workers involved with treating patients that have been poisoned. Latex gloves are inadequate for protection from many chemicals;

Yellow Latex gloves are water resistant, not chemical resistant. The correct gloves for spraying carbamates and organophosphates are the green nitrile chemical resistant gloves.

Health care workers handling the bodies of those contaminated by organophosphates should use chemical barrier protection (latex gloves afford little protection)

[get a bigger hammer]

Interestingly Mobil II is also known as ox26. How many guys have in there military guys vented Tornado gearbox's 6 times a day and had to inhale the mist?

All the symtoms are evident in most engineers but are normally just taken as course or attributed to other things. We are unfortunately dishonest to ourselves and buy our very nature just get on with it.

Free checks are available from the NHS. Go and see your GP and hold the industry, both aviation and oil, to account.

[GAZIN]

A very interesting, & disturbing article. I am ashamed to say that it has taken me 29 years to realise the importance of wearing gloves. I dread to think how much Jet II has got into my system over that time.
I do think that working in fuel tanks has had an impact on my health; perhaps a free pint of milk wasn't a substitute for breathing apparatus after all!

Just off to the stores to check what our disposable gloves are made from.