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Canada The great white north. A BIG country with few people and LOTS of aviation.

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Old 22nd Nov 2016, 23:02   #1 (permalink)
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Liberals buy a few more CF-18s

Liberals to buy 18 Boeing Super Hornet fighter jets to fill 'capability gap' - Politics - CBC News
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Old 23rd Nov 2016, 03:14   #2 (permalink)
 
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Good, the F-35 is a fool's game.
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Old 23rd Nov 2016, 22:55   #3 (permalink)
 
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Oh goody, another broken campaign promise by JT. Open and transparent bid process my ass. He just sole sourced a purchase. The exact same thing he was bitching about the other side doing.

Hypocrites are assholes.
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Old 24th Nov 2016, 12:02   #4 (permalink)
 
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@ Mostly Harmless...

What's the problem here?

The Super Hornets to be purchased are a stop gap measure... A new fully open competition to replace all Hornets will start next year in the search for a new replacement fighter.

Do you really think that p.o.s. F35 is the fighter Canada needs and should buy?

Finally, what promise as been broken?
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Old 24th Nov 2016, 14:56   #5 (permalink)
 
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Liberals & defense procurement, never a simple task with this group. Sacking a sole source for another sole source, the grass is not always greener, except in certain Liberal smokes.
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Old 24th Nov 2016, 15:09   #6 (permalink)
 
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Jet Jockey A4,

I don't care what fighter we buy to replace our F/A-18 models that we currently have. I have a problem with them sole sourcing the buy. Hold the open competition and fair that they campaigned on and let the best plane for the job win.

The problem is being a hypocrite. I thought that was pretty obvious.

What promise was broken? The promise to hold an open and fair competition. The promise that they would not sole source a purchase like those evil conservatives. Hey, how about that budgetary promise to keep the deficit to $10,000,000,000 dollars!!! It's $30,000,000,000, or in simpler terms, 300% higher, in their first year in office.

If you don't understand that, then I think you are either a brainwashed cult follower, a paid shill or a bot. But what you are not is a critical thinker who is concerned with the fact that the tax rates in 6 out of 10 provinces now exceeds 50% of your income. So, if you want to take home $1 of wages you need to earn more than $2 because the federal and provincial governments are taking more than half your income. Do you feel you are getting value for your money? I don't. Now maybe magazine covers, selfies and global vacations paid for by our tax dollars are what you feel is good governance but personally, I expect that if you run on a platform that you at least try to stick to it. There is no force majeure here that is preventing them from acting on their promises and yet they are breaking them more and more every day. If you won't hold them accountable by calling it out, then you deserve the government you get.

Last edited by Mostly Harmless; 24th Nov 2016 at 15:21.
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Old 26th Nov 2016, 01:46   #7 (permalink)
 
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Liberals & defense procurement, never a simple task with this group. Sacking a sole source for another sole source, the grass is not always greener, except in certain Liberal smokes.
If memory serves, did not Marcel Masse, in 1992 (then Minister of Defence AND a Progressive Conservative) announce an UN-tendered contract to procure the CH-146 Griffon???

So um, yeah, just keep chucking rocks while you reside in that glass house of yours. Canadian military procurement exercises are a joke, no matter which bunch of morons happens to be infesting Ottawa at any given time. It's embarrassing.
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Old 26th Nov 2016, 17:39   #8 (permalink)
 
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Canadian military procurement exercises are a joke, no matter which bunch of morons happens to be infesting Ottawa at any given time.
I completely agree with that.

Don't forget the helicopter so nice, we paid for it twice. The EH101.

It's the wasted money that makes me upset. The title on the door or the colour of party is not relevant to me.
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Old 26th Nov 2016, 22:07   #9 (permalink)
 
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If memory serves, did not Marcel Masse, in 1992 (then Minister of Defence AND a Progressive Conservative) announce an UN-tendered contract to procure the CH-146 Griffon???
Ironically that was another "let's give money to Quebec" deals.
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 14:36   #10 (permalink)
 
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I believe today is an exceptional day for our submariners, one of their 4 steeds is in service! 25% readiness is a complete embarrassment.
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Old 12th Dec 2016, 16:16   #11 (permalink)
 
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OTTAWA—Six years after ripping into the Conservative government’s cost estimates for F-35 stealth fighters, Parliament’s budgetary watchdog says it is digging into the Liberal plan to purchase “interim” Super Hornet jets. ...

Ministers have admitted that they have an idea how much the Super Hornets will cost and that it will be more expensive in the long run for taxpayers, but they have refused to say by how much.

The government says the extra costs are necessary as Canada has to provide a certain number of aircraft for the defence of North America as well as NATO, which it currently cannot do at the same time.

Experts and internal Defence Department reports, including one recently pulled from the its website, have raised questions about those requirements and warned that operating two different fighter jets will be prohibitively expensive.


More details from: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...jet-costs.html
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Old 16th Dec 2016, 17:37   #12 (permalink)
 
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The government says the extra costs are necessary as Canada has to provide a certain number of aircraft for the defence of North America as well as NATO, which it currently cannot do at the same time.
My Lord... So the Feds are saying 18 Super Hornets will cover defending Canada as well as meeting our NATO committments.

I agree with peekay4's head-banging...
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Old 16th Dec 2016, 19:32   #13 (permalink)
 
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Grizzled

That is not at all what the Feds are saying.

You may wish to review your "Reading Comprehension 101" notes.
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Old 16th Dec 2016, 20:53   #14 (permalink)
 
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Alan Williams, a former head of procurement at the Department of National Defence, who helped blow the whistle on the sole-sourcing of the CF-18 fighter jet replacement program. Its not good for the men and women in uniform, the taxpayer or the industrial benefits that flow to this country. I dont care which plane they pick, but they should go through the front door.

John Ivison: By sole-sourcing Super Hornets, Liberals now look identical to Tories on fighter-jets file | National Post

The Liberals and Conservatives now look indistinguishable on this file, just as the creatures of Animal Farm eventually saw the pigs and the humans as tantamount: [They] looked from pig to man and from man to pig; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

Ministers have admitted that they have an idea how much the Super Hornets will cost and that it will be more expensive in the long run for taxpayers, but they have refused to say by how much.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...jet-costs.html
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Old 16th Dec 2016, 23:47   #15 (permalink)
 
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OK Oleary...

Educate me:

1. Tell me then, what's the plan for 9 years from now -- when the current batch of (70 odd) CF-18s (A's and B's) are eventually retired.

2. More importantly, tell me why you think the current batch of CF-18s are suitable -- now, and from now until 2025 -- to fulfill our NATO requirements and/or defend our airspace?

Stop banging your head against the wall and talk to somebody who knows what the requirements are for "2" above. And then talk to the folks who fly, maintain and task our current batch of CF-18s.

Last edited by grizzled; 16th Dec 2016 at 23:58.
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Old 17th Dec 2016, 03:06   #16 (permalink)
 
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Grizzled

You said, "My Lord... So the Feds are saying 18 Super Hornets will cover defending Canada as well as meeting our NATO commitments."

And I replied, "That is not at all what the Feds are saying".

So, let's walk through this real slow:

(1) Let's say Canada needs 78 fighters to meet its NATO/NORAD commitments.

(2) Let's say Canada currently has 60 serviceable fighters.

(3) How many MORE fighters does Canada need to buy to meet its commitments?

(4) Answer: 18

Slow enough for you Alberta folks?
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Old 17th Dec 2016, 08:17   #17 (permalink)
 
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Ohhhh Leary....

Apart from the fact that you're being rude, condescending and arrogant, you still don't get it: My point was this (perhaps I was too subtle and should have been more clear about my shot at the Feds): The CURRENT fleet of CF-18s are INCAPABLE of meeting the current needs and requirements of both NATO and NORAD. They are outdated and incompatible (despite how many upgrades they have had or will have). So whatever number of Super Hornets we purchase will be the total number of fighters that contribute something worthwhile to NORAD and NATO.

While I study Reading Comprehension 101 you ought to read up on our CF-18s. Perhaps start with why they were withdrawn from some recent NATO activities (a decision Trudeau took flak for, but for the wrong reasons).

Then check the definition of Ad Hominem...

Lastly, I am not an Albertan. Nowhere near it.

In any event, Happy Holidays
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Old 20th Dec 2016, 21:31   #18 (permalink)
 
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airpolice

Because if you make absolutely no effort to maintain your previously agreed to NORAD and NATO commitments nobody will sign treaties with you any more.
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Old 28th Dec 2016, 16:19   #19 (permalink)
 
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What happened to the plan for solar powered snow mobiles ?


What was the name of that Senator who said something like " Most countries have a military in them .If not their own then somebodies "


We all know who would annex Canada in a heart beat if they thought they could get away with it . Some of the Reformers out west wanted to rid themselves of eastern politicians and pave the way for that to happen through " harmonization" . Harper ruined that plan and kept the country together.


Who knows maybe JT will achieve what the reformers could not .


Cascadia does have a nice ring to it . They might even let California join after Calexit . If they do not vote to rejoin Mexico


In other news the Russians have just completed tests on a new space plane engine for the 6th generation fighters .
Maybe the secret plan is to wait until the seventh generation of fighters are developed, before spending money to honour treaty requirements .
The new Chateau Clique has not been in power long enough to guess what they will do other than buy what they are allowed to buy .


Remember the Arrow farce ?
The problem Canada has is when they show what they are capable of producing, the neighbours get very nervous .


We may have to wait until after the new boss comes in on January 20th to know what will be allowed to be bought. or more accurately told what to buy .
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