Citation missing after departure from Burke Lakefront in Cleveland
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malabo
the experience of FAA is undeniable, of course, but not perfect.
however, almost in every other accident report foreign or NTSB, there are some recommendations to FAA. I guess with all that
experience FAA is a bit short from being 'perfect'
as for the single pilot ops complex or otherwise we read the statistics and the numbers increase all the time.
Stats show slight increase in number of fatal GA accidents ? General Aviation News
re IMC, sorry I forgot to add 'at night' !
the experience of FAA is undeniable, of course, but not perfect.
however, almost in every other accident report foreign or NTSB, there are some recommendations to FAA. I guess with all that
experience FAA is a bit short from being 'perfect'
as for the single pilot ops complex or otherwise we read the statistics and the numbers increase all the time.
Stats show slight increase in number of fatal GA accidents ? General Aviation News
re IMC, sorry I forgot to add 'at night' !
Last edited by vmandr; 31st Dec 2016 at 04:14. Reason: typo
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I have looked and can't find any SIDs for this airport- I can find the STARs but no SIDs.
If there are SIDs, do any of them involve a right turn after takeoff, out across the lake?
The direct flight route would call for a left turn after take off, so unless he was following a SID which involved flight in the wrong direction initially (by no means unusual of course) it might be significant that his initial turn was the wrong way- i.e.- not positively intended. Then startle would play a part- he is expecting to see habitation and a biggish city, when all he sees is a black hole. METAR suggests IMC from 2600 ft, and last plot was circa 3000ft.
so fairly quickly into IMC, at a time of high workload, rapid acceleration (somatogravic illusion?) especially if his head was also turned, introducing a lateral component to the illusion=graveyard spiral.
All pure speculation but comments appreciated.
Thanks for the NZ CAA link vmandr - well worth a read for a GA single pilot
If there are SIDs, do any of them involve a right turn after takeoff, out across the lake?
The direct flight route would call for a left turn after take off, so unless he was following a SID which involved flight in the wrong direction initially (by no means unusual of course) it might be significant that his initial turn was the wrong way- i.e.- not positively intended. Then startle would play a part- he is expecting to see habitation and a biggish city, when all he sees is a black hole. METAR suggests IMC from 2600 ft, and last plot was circa 3000ft.
so fairly quickly into IMC, at a time of high workload, rapid acceleration (somatogravic illusion?) especially if his head was also turned, introducing a lateral component to the illusion=graveyard spiral.
All pure speculation but comments appreciated.
Thanks for the NZ CAA link vmandr - well worth a read for a GA single pilot
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Cleveland Hopkins Airport (the main airline Airport) is southwest of Lakefront Airport. A left turn departure would place the aircraft in the way of arrivals. That's why the right turn on departure.
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From: TAKEOFF MINIMUMS, (OBSTACLE) DEPARTURE PROCEDURES, AND
DIVERSE VECTOR AREA (RADAR VECTORS)
CLEVELAND, OH
BURKE LAKEFRONT (BKL)
TAKEOFF MINIMUMS AND (OBSTACLE)
DEPARTURE PROCEDURES
Rwys 24L/24R, climbing right turn to intercept CXR
VOR/DME R-272 to 1900 before proceeding on course.
DIVERSE VECTOR AREA (RADAR VECTORS)
CLEVELAND, OH
BURKE LAKEFRONT (BKL)
TAKEOFF MINIMUMS AND (OBSTACLE)
DEPARTURE PROCEDURES
Rwys 24L/24R, climbing right turn to intercept CXR
VOR/DME R-272 to 1900 before proceeding on course.
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Some of the roughest rides I've ever had (on app & dep) were in and out of BKL and CLE in the winter.
Pretty high workload for a low-time, single pilot: night, turbulence, icing, freq change to departure - things happened pretty fast once he got the gear up. Even if he engaged the A/P it might have kicked off.
Sounds like a classic departure stall.
Pretty high workload for a low-time, single pilot: night, turbulence, icing, freq change to departure - things happened pretty fast once he got the gear up. Even if he engaged the A/P it might have kicked off.
Sounds like a classic departure stall.
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I can recall three recent two crew IFR takeoffs or missed approaches into the dark that may have succumbed to disorientation. Flash 604 out of Sharm, Armavia 967 on a miss from Sochi and possibly the TU-154 at Sochi last week.
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We don't know what happened and the job of the NTSB starts now with the task of showing what didn't happen which is what a lot of people don't understand when criticizing the length of time it takes them to produce a report.
But yes, a low hours non-professional pilot in poor weather at night after a long day and operating new, unfamiliar equipment can be a recipe for disaster, as the young Kennedy was to discover. It may turn out that this was not the major cause of the accident but if there's anyone out there reading this that is in a similar position do keep this in mind.. It's an old story that has bitten very hard and tragically too many times yet the lesson although a simple one is ignored time and time again leaving a hole in the ground and a hole in the lives of friends and families.
But yes, a low hours non-professional pilot in poor weather at night after a long day and operating new, unfamiliar equipment can be a recipe for disaster, as the young Kennedy was to discover. It may turn out that this was not the major cause of the accident but if there's anyone out there reading this that is in a similar position do keep this in mind.. It's an old story that has bitten very hard and tragically too many times yet the lesson although a simple one is ignored time and time again leaving a hole in the ground and a hole in the lives of friends and families.
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I've got a couple of questions, pardon me in advance if they are a bit ignorant.
I'm curious what the insurance requirements are specific to coverage. My understanding is that both check ride and some amount of simulator and flight time is required transitioning from the Mustang to the Citation. I know that the Mustang is designed as much as a private owner plane and configured for single pilot use. Isn't the Citation series in general really intended for dual pilot use?
so...
Is there a limitation (from an insurance perspective) on pilot qualifications for single pilot operations. Given the sophistication of the avionics why would he not use the automation...I can't think of any reason to be hand flying under those conditions given his low time on the Citation???
I'm curious what the insurance requirements are specific to coverage. My understanding is that both check ride and some amount of simulator and flight time is required transitioning from the Mustang to the Citation. I know that the Mustang is designed as much as a private owner plane and configured for single pilot use. Isn't the Citation series in general really intended for dual pilot use?
so...
Is there a limitation (from an insurance perspective) on pilot qualifications for single pilot operations. Given the sophistication of the avionics why would he not use the automation...I can't think of any reason to be hand flying under those conditions given his low time on the Citation???
.I can't think of any reason to be hand flying under those conditions given his low time on the Citation???
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I most certainly haven't, my own thoughts were similar to those posted above that this appears to be a loss a spatial awareness in IMC (my father lost a close friend in similar circumstances).
I am speculating that he was hand flying since it's a much higher probability statistically than the AP kicking out so quickly. Of course it's also possible that either the AP never engaged or that the accident occurred in part because he was attempting to set the AP (or asked his son to??) and his focus was split between aviating, post takeoff clean up (gear, flaps) and the AP...
I am speculating that he was hand flying since it's a much higher probability statistically than the AP kicking out so quickly. Of course it's also possible that either the AP never engaged or that the accident occurred in part because he was attempting to set the AP (or asked his son to??) and his focus was split between aviating, post takeoff clean up (gear, flaps) and the AP...
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Many aircraft, including for example the DHC6 Twin Otter, are certificated for single pilot operation. Many local national regulations place limits on such operations varying from VFR only to the number of paying passengers. This is a minefield of inconsistant and often irrational rules which few claim to understand.
I am speculating that he was hand flying since it's a much higher probability statistically than the AP kicking out so quickly.
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CVR
One item of note from the equipment listed in the sales flyer for the incident aircraft was that it was equipped with a CVR that apparently records flight parameters as well, per the specs:
http://www.l-3ar.com/Draft_0612/html/PROD-Av-Rec-FA2100CVR.php
Perhaps the mystery will be ultimately solved. It also has a pinger, who knows if the coast guard or local authorities can detect it, or will detect it in shallow water.
http://www.l-3ar.com/Draft_0612/html/PROD-Av-Rec-FA2100CVR.php
Perhaps the mystery will be ultimately solved. It also has a pinger, who knows if the coast guard or local authorities can detect it, or will detect it in shallow water.
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According to reports, "the Emergency Locator Transmitter on the missing Cessna is not pinging."
Divers now assisting in lost plane recovery mission in Lake Erie - WALB.com, South Georgia News, Weather, Sports
Divers now assisting in lost plane recovery mission in Lake Erie - WALB.com, South Georgia News, Weather, Sports
Apart from the fact that the airplane was owner flown and therefore Part 91 regardless of the fact that it was on a 135 certificate...
Even with a 2-pilot crew a "low altitude" autopilot engagement should be briefed prior to departure because it is....prudent with a low level over water turn after departure...at night.
(1) At a minimum engagement altitude specified in the AFM
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Although I agree that the A/P is a great aid under these conditions and should be used, especially in single pilot night IFR operations, too many young pilots wealthy enough to afford an airplane such as this think they can substitute button pushing for basic IFR flying skills and currency.
If the pilot does not have the skills to hand fly the plane, no autopilot will make up for it. IOW, if you can't fly it, don't take it airborne. The A/P is an aid, not a substitute.