How does a PRIVATE ops f/o upgrade to Captain?
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How does a PRIVATE ops f/o upgrade to Captain?
I would like to know what is required, disregarding insurance difficulties.
I have a full UK ATPL. My type rating says NIL restrictions next to it and the CAA says as far as they are concerned I could fly left. However, all my LPCs have been in the right seat. I have over 1000hrs on type and a lot of PIC time in other types.
Now if an employer (private ops only, M registration) wants to upgrade me what is required? I know common sense will say fly with TRI in right seat for 25 sectors or so, but could this be done with just a normal line captain?
If anyone can shed some light on this I would really appreciate it.
Thanks
I have a full UK ATPL. My type rating says NIL restrictions next to it and the CAA says as far as they are concerned I could fly left. However, all my LPCs have been in the right seat. I have over 1000hrs on type and a lot of PIC time in other types.
Now if an employer (private ops only, M registration) wants to upgrade me what is required? I know common sense will say fly with TRI in right seat for 25 sectors or so, but could this be done with just a normal line captain?
If anyone can shed some light on this I would really appreciate it.
Thanks
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Private Ops? Hey - no problem at all... Just move over to the left hand seat, stand em up, blast off and hope for the best!
That's what most of them do. No ground training, sim training, line training, SEP, fire & smoke, CRM, OPC, Line Check - what good is all that crap anyway?
And the chances are, you've only been flying with a handful of Captains who have also got f***k all experience so what chance have you had of really learning anything?
Cue - some idiot to come on and say that private ops are as safe as AOC hahaha!
( no disrespect to you personally my friend, you're just tied up in a crap system)
That's what most of them do. No ground training, sim training, line training, SEP, fire & smoke, CRM, OPC, Line Check - what good is all that crap anyway?
And the chances are, you've only been flying with a handful of Captains who have also got f***k all experience so what chance have you had of really learning anything?
Cue - some idiot to come on and say that private ops are as safe as AOC hahaha!
( no disrespect to you personally my friend, you're just tied up in a crap system)
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As reg 6 says. Just jump in the left seat and blast off. Maybe the left seat of a Cessna 750 on some VFR approaches in low viz into short strips may be your idea of line training? Depends, how long you bosses want to stay alive?
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How does a PRIVATE ops f/o upgrade to Captain?
I would like to know what is required,
disregarding insurance difficulties.
I have a full UK ATPL. My type
rating says NIL restrictions next to it and the CAA says as far as they are concerned I could fly left. However, all my LPCs have been in the right seat. I have over 1000hrs on type and a lot of PIC time in other types.
Now if an employer (private ops only, M registration) wants to upgrade me what is required? I know common sense will say fly with TRI in right seat for 25 sectors or so, but could this be done with just a normal line captain?
If anyone can shed some light on this I would really appreciate it.
Thanks
Last edited by Above The Clouds; 6th Mar 2012 at 20:06.
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Regulation 6
I did 14 years in the airlines, now on my 10th in private ops.
And you my friend haven't got a f*****g clue what you are talking about.
That is why you are unemployed and bitter
I did 14 years in the airlines, now on my 10th in private ops.
And you my friend haven't got a f*****g clue what you are talking about.
That is why you are unemployed and bitter
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Grum, what you need before flying LHS and wearing the 4 stripes is a recurrent on the left seat.
If your company is serious about it, the will purchase an "upgrade" recurrent on the type, which typically lasts a day or two longer and has more extensive sim training.
Both CAE and FSI offer various ancillary training related to upgrading, such as command CRM seminar. Whether you need these is between you and your ops chief.
Don't forget to check on the requirements for right-hand seat qualification to be done on recurrent, depending on where your aircraft is registered.
Oh, and don't let the mongrels nipping at your heels on this forum get to you..
If your company is serious about it, the will purchase an "upgrade" recurrent on the type, which typically lasts a day or two longer and has more extensive sim training.
Both CAE and FSI offer various ancillary training related to upgrading, such as command CRM seminar. Whether you need these is between you and your ops chief.
Don't forget to check on the requirements for right-hand seat qualification to be done on recurrent, depending on where your aircraft is registered.
Oh, and don't let the mongrels nipping at your heels on this forum get to you..
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GRUM-Talk to the owner and get his approval to swap legs.
Regulation 6-Very cynical, when you've got one you might want to wave it too.
What the hell is wrong with someone who wants to progress?
Regulation 6-Very cynical, when you've got one you might want to wave it too.
What the hell is wrong with someone who wants to progress?
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I was afraid this might happen.
Thanks REGN for the straight forward reply and FLyMD, all sound advice with which I whole-heartedly agree.
All the above is up-to-date and have been done every single year regardless of legislated renewal periods. Command course at FSI completed, line training completed, few months of PIC jet before redundancy. (why justify myself 
)
The reason I ask, what appears to be a stupid question, is that I have only ever worked in an AOC environment and due to redundancy (again) find myself doing a bit of freelance. The boss asked me a legitimate question, and I like to have answers. After speaking to the CAA I was pretty suprised by the answer so I thought I'd ask here. There are a lot of people on this website with a huge amount of knowledge, and it is a fun place to share it, and have a bit of banter at the same time.
Sweeping generalisations about safety in private and commercial ops is going to be a terrible waste of megabytes in some far away server somewhere. Sorry I started it.
Thanks for the info.
No ground training, sim training, line training, SEP, fire & smoke, CRM, OPC, Line Check - what good is all that crap anyway?
)The reason I ask, what appears to be a stupid question, is that I have only ever worked in an AOC environment and due to redundancy (again) find myself doing a bit of freelance. The boss asked me a legitimate question, and I like to have answers. After speaking to the CAA I was pretty suprised by the answer so I thought I'd ask here. There are a lot of people on this website with a huge amount of knowledge, and it is a fun place to share it, and have a bit of banter at the same time.
Sweeping generalisations about safety in private and commercial ops is going to be a terrible waste of megabytes in some far away server somewhere. Sorry I started it.
Thanks for the info.
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Grum
I was afraid this might happen.
All the above is up-to-date and have been done every single year regardless of legislated renewal periods. Command course at FSI completed, line training completed, few months of PIC jet before redundancy. (why justify myself
) The reason I ask, what appears to be a stupid question, is that I have only ever worked in an AOC environment and due to redundancy (again) find myself doing a bit of freelance. The boss asked me a legitimate question, and I like to have answers. After speaking to the CAA I was pretty suprised by the answer so I thought I'd ask here. There are a lot of people on this website with a huge amount of knowledge, and it is a fun place to share it, and have a bit of banter at the same time.
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How it's done around here -
- You get the captain fired, so you move into the left seat
- You find the captain a better job, you move into the left seat
- You get another plane, you captain that.
- You show competence, and the captain can relax enough to read a book.
- You get the captain so drunk he can't fly the next day, so you fly.
- You tell the captain how wonderful he is, and ask for instruction, he lets you fly.
- You play golf with the boss, he tells the captain to let you fly more.
- You get the captain fired, so you move into the left seat
- You find the captain a better job, you move into the left seat
- You get another plane, you captain that.
- You show competence, and the captain can relax enough to read a book.
- You get the captain so drunk he can't fly the next day, so you fly.
- You tell the captain how wonderful he is, and ask for instruction, he lets you fly.
- You play golf with the boss, he tells the captain to let you fly more.
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I'll try to ignore the high noise content on this thread and provide one further piece of advice - in a normal sensible private operation one of the key people who decides whether you can be the commander is the insurance broker.
Whilst AOC holders will often have fairly broadly worded insurance policies, for a private operator they can keep the cost down by having named pilots who's flying history is known to the insurance company. To get someone added to the captain roster therefore usually involves the chief pilot (or owner, operator, etc) sending a letter requesting that you be added, along with your CV and any claims history, to the broker. They usually come back with the rules (FSI recurrent, first 10 hours supervised, whatever) that will get you added without a bump in the premium.
With commercial experience and 1,000 hours on type I would expect the insurance company requirements will be modest and easily met.
Whilst AOC holders will often have fairly broadly worded insurance policies, for a private operator they can keep the cost down by having named pilots who's flying history is known to the insurance company. To get someone added to the captain roster therefore usually involves the chief pilot (or owner, operator, etc) sending a letter requesting that you be added, along with your CV and any claims history, to the broker. They usually come back with the rules (FSI recurrent, first 10 hours supervised, whatever) that will get you added without a bump in the premium.
With commercial experience and 1,000 hours on type I would expect the insurance company requirements will be modest and easily met.
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No special courses actually required
Assuming no AOC involvement, inc a management company with FOM, then there might / should be no extra cost (s) or training required.
When you next do a recurrent, ensure that the FTO is asked for PIC check, and not SIC.
Mostly you can get the check ride in the LHS, and the PIC check ride, which is a few more exercises, but if you are with a reputable operator, and or a reputable FTO, you should with 100 hrs on type breeeze the ride.
I am in the sim more than average pilots, and many times the student seeks a PIC ride, and he gets it. Licence rating endorsed accordingly.
It is up to an operator if you are employed LHS or RHS.
Re the 25 line sectors, this is an insurance requirement usually. But you have the sectors as SIC, so should not be a problem.
Might need 3 or 4 T/O landing in LHS in real aircraft to actually exercise your PIC rating.
Go for it......
When you next do a recurrent, ensure that the FTO is asked for PIC check, and not SIC.
Mostly you can get the check ride in the LHS, and the PIC check ride, which is a few more exercises, but if you are with a reputable operator, and or a reputable FTO, you should with 100 hrs on type breeeze the ride.
I am in the sim more than average pilots, and many times the student seeks a PIC ride, and he gets it. Licence rating endorsed accordingly.
It is up to an operator if you are employed LHS or RHS.
Re the 25 line sectors, this is an insurance requirement usually. But you have the sectors as SIC, so should not be a problem.
Might need 3 or 4 T/O landing in LHS in real aircraft to actually exercise your PIC rating.
Go for it......
